DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Ryan has high hopes for Browns' D

Quote:

---

it worked great cause nobody saw it coming!

---

Quote:

---

This is off topic, Turk, but your sig freaks me out. Didn't know you were a big Diana Ross fan.

---

Quote:

---

You should meet Wimbley if you get the chance peen. He's really an impressive guy and character wise he's what you're looking for in a team leader.

---

I wouldn't shun the guy if we were in the same room, and am sure he is a nice guy.

But let's put it this way. He would have to be in the same room by chance. I wouldn't drive out of my way to see him.

Quote:

---

hope I'm wrong .. we'll see ...

---

You may be suprised

Quote:

---

Bingo .. hes a great guy with a great work ethic ... looks like he may go the way of Dra though .. a skill set that just didn't transer to the NFL ..

hope I'm wrong .. we'll see ...

---

Quote:

---

By this point in a rusher's NFL career, he's either developed or he hasn't.

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

By this point in a rusher's NFL career, he's either developed or he hasn't.

---

I'm not convinced RAC "coached" anyone. Players need to be taught and pushed. This year may be the first time he has that since college.

---

Quote:

---

I hate to break it to you man, but players like Wimbley don't come into the league as high 1st round picks without allready having most of their ability in place. In simpler terms, it'd be up to a coach to refine what a player does, not teach it to him.

---

I couldn't disagree more.

the top of the first round is loaded with players that didn't blossom until their second or third year. On most teams those two years are spent being pushed brutally hard. Having huge goals that are worked toward and driven at relentlessly.

RAC never beat up his own team in preseason and camp - he coddled them and tried to buffer their confidence. So much so that when we actually played real games we looked UNPREPARED .

In fact, no other single word better defines RAC's teams than "unprepared". From coaching staff, to game plan, the well.... anything.

The Ravens aren't just drafting well - they coach the players they draft. They game plan to put the players in winning situations. Pitt's LeBeau isn't a genius - he's a coach that teaches his guys what to do and how.

Under RAC we watched rookies come in and many had success. EVery year after that most of them dropped off. The generic answer is "other teams figured them out".

Well who do you really think figured them out? The other team's coaches! And then they went to their players and told them what to expect and how to counter and exploit it. Then they drill that technique until it's polished and comfortable. And that's where the cycle ended.

Under EM hopefully our coaches will now come out players and tell THEM what to expect, how to counter and exploit, and drill it until it's instinctive.

I think the evidence of that plan is shown in our "academic draft" goals. EM wants players that can learn new material quickly and evolve their game.

Quote:

---

the top of the first round is loaded with players that didn't blossom until their second or third year.

---

Which is why I said that most rushers are as good as they are going to get by that point. Wimbley hasn't blossomed, he's regressed. That's less about learning how to rush the passer than it is adjusting to playing time, the speed of the game, and refinement, which is different than being taught rush moves.

Since you named the Ravens, use their best rusher: Terrell Suggs. He had 12 sacks as a rookie. That turned out to be his highest total so far in his career, but that's because as teams figured him out, he refined the rush moves he allready had.

I maintain that Wimbley isn't trying to refine anything. What many are talking about is teaching him those moves. It's WAY too late for that. He either has a foundation of them or he doesn't. What he needs isn't a refinement of the moves he has, but rather God needs to come down and give him something he simply doesn't have.

That can't be coached.

Quote:

---

RAC never beat up his own team in preseason and camp - he coddled them and tried to buffer their confidence. So much so that when we actually played real games we looked UNPREPARED

---

While absolutely the truth, that doesn't prove or disprove anything about Wimbley.

Quote:

---

Under RAC we watched rookies come in and many had success. EVery year after that most of them dropped off. The generic answer is "other teams figured them out".

Well who do you really think figured them out? The other team's coaches!

---

Again, that doesn't speak to Wimbley's issues, only RAC's shortcomings. However, again, as I've said before, RAC isn't responsible for teaching basic rush moves to his guys.

ANY DC, line coach, or linebackers coach in the NFL can teach basic rush moves. In fact, most head coaches don't drop down and spend a great deal of time teaching these players basic moves. So again, it's not about RAC, it's about Wimbley.

Suggs came into the league with numerous moves. As the league caught up with him, he refined his moves, and thus has steadily continued on the curve.

Wimbley came into the league with one move. As the league caught up with him, he had no more moves to refine, and thus has steadily declined behind the curve.

No HC is going to fix him. That isn't a HC's job. So we can't point the finger at RAC. He's not responsible for that. It's the same for Mangini. He won't be responsible for Wimbley's refinements. That'll be the positional coaches and the DC.

To be brutally honest, there's very little about pass-rushing that needs to be taught. Players either have the lower-body strength to gain leverage and execute a bull-rush or they don't. Ever see Wimbley's legs? He doesn't have the base to really push a blocker.

Let me show you a picture of Wimbley in shorts. Look at his calves. My grandmother has bigger calves than this: Want to REALLY see what I'm talking about? Look at the size of Chad Johnson's calves. These are the calves of a 195-pound receiver:

Now you'll begin to see why Wimbley can't be a great rusher.

Have you ever seen Wimbley try and execute a spin-move? He looked like he was standing in mud when he did it. That isn't about coaching. That's about ability, or lack-thereof.

This isn't a prod, Gift, but most people mistakenly believe that pass-rush moves are these extremely refined things that can be taught by only the greatest defensive minds in the world.

That couldn't be further from the truth.

It's the refinement of the moves that makes a great pass-rusher. Wimbley doesn't have any moves besides speed, and nobody in the world can teach his calves to get bigger. Without that supurb base, the bull-rush and spin moves won't be there.

Want to REALLY know the difference between teams like the Ravens and the Steelers opposed to the Browns? They draft guys like Ngata, and we take guys like Wimbley. Neither Bear Bryant nor Chuck Noll would be able to make Wimbley into something he isn't. It's not about who's coaching our players. It's about which players we keep taking.

Quote:

---

So says the man with Dianna Ross in his sig

I'll leave it for others to point out just how important the calves are to lower body stability and power..........

---

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/01tk5s9c6n5DK/610x.jpg

Maybe this is just a bad picture but Julius Peppers looks like he has the same size calves as KW.

Quote:

---

So says the man with Dianna Ross in his sig

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

So says the man with Dianna Ross in his sig

---

---

Quote:

---

I think RAC set us back farther than most realize.

---

Not me my friend

Quote:

---

If I'm right we should see signs early on, and if after game 16 we haven't then I won't have any problem moving on from KW.

---

I pray that you're right, not me, and that Wimbley can be the exception to the rule.

Quote:

---

As a former defensive tackle and sometimes DE

---

Well Jezuz, there you go. I'm talkin' to a ploddin' mud-bug. What do you grunts know?

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

So says the man with Dianna Ross in his sig

---

---

You all might as well get use to the sig... Cuz i'm not changing it anytime soon...

---

It'd be a shame to put you on ignore for something which had nothing to do with something you said. At least pick out a less feminine pic of him.

Edit......nevermind. The pics I just saw on google are WAY freakier than that one.........

Quote:

---

You all might as well get use to the sig... Cuz i'm not changing it anytime soon...

---

Quote:

---

Bull Rush is about Leverage and explosion...

---

But it's about your own balance first......being able to make a blocker lean off of his center of gravity so he loses his power. That comes from the ability to change direction and quickly get your legs under you to explode into the blocker. That gains the rusher the leverage.

So how does that apply to lower leg strength? Without it, it's much harder to gain the strength and balance to negate the power of a blocker.

Simply put, without the lower leg strength, it's harder to generate enough quickness and power to move a blocker off his center of gravity.

Quote:

---

To make an ASSumption that he is DONE because of that physical feature is a rather naive one.

---

And exactly who has done that?

Quote:

---

btw my calves were always tremendous but it didn't help me much in my leaping ability or speed. Most of that came from my thighs.

---

Your leaping ability and/or speed (or lack thereof white boy ) is more about fast-twitch muscle fibers than bulk. But then that means Wimbley's lower-legs don't play a role in this discussion, right?

Wrong.

It's not just about the calves, either. All the smaller muscles that run along-side the ankles control balance and stability in the ankles. Without that stability, it's much tougher to maintain balance and quickness in change of direction, which have nothing to do with leaping or speed. In Wimbley, he's clearly got an inferior base in that regard.

So, is that THE reason he's failed? No, not at all. But it is important.

Quote:

---

Technique in using his Explosiveness is the key!

---

Accurate, but I maintain that because he doesn't have an elite base, he's struggled, and will continue to struggle, with that.

Hey, even if he can get a blocker to move off of his center of gravity, thus losing his power (think Shaffer ) that explosion isn't there in the same way it's there for guys like Freeney. Simply put, a blocker can recover against a guy like Wimbley where he can't against most rushers. That's why Wimbley only has a speed move to the outside: He doesn't have the power or explosion to beat a blocker with explosion, nor does he have the balance or quickness in change-of-direction to beat them with spin moves. That's a direct result of lacking the lower-leg stability I'm speaking of, and that starts with the calves and the stabalizing muscles around the ankles.

I've had my take here. There's still a chance Wimbley can contribute to this defense, but the odds are clearly stacked against him. Throughout the league, players that have "it" as rushers are there by their 3rd year in the league. This is Wimbley's 4th, and he's been going the wrong way. We can hope for the best, but my advice is this: Don't hold your breath.