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well if you want current player first one comes to mind is adailius Thomas. Seems to me Thomas had something like 12 sacks in his first 4 years total.
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can you show us a pass-rushing LB/DE that has the calves that you're talking about? not to give you more work or anything, just that it's clear you have a type of calf in mind as "good calves."
when talking about explosion and being able to drive someone, the best other sport to look at is professional weightlifting. they go from a squat and fully extend in a matter of a second. if you look at them, there are (relatively) no calves and monster thighs. it's all between the knees and hips and their balance comes from their core. i doubt the small muscles in the ankles and such do much for general balance as they are not able to bear the weight needed to play a large role in overall balance, exibited by the number of ankle injuries by people who cut a lot (RBs/WRs/CBs)
jmho
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Curious as to when that college pic of Wimbley was taken. He weighed as little as 225 during his college carreer compared to the 255 he weighs now.
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Quote:
Curious as to when that college pic of Wimbley was taken. He weighed as little as 225 during his college carreer compared to the 255 he weighs now.
Must of been taken prior to Bowden handing out free meal tickets at the local Rally's 
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The hate on Wimbley from Toad will continue even if he does succeed. At the end of 09.. The guy could have 15 sacks.. and He will say it's because we played against weaker teams... You can't win w/ the guy...  lol.
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Since you named the Ravens, use their best rusher: Terrell Suggs. He had 12 sacks as a rookie. That turned out to be his highest total so far in his career, but that's because as teams figured him out, he refined the rush moves he allready had.
A. Stats are for losers. 
B. Ya think opponents game planning might play a role?
Rookie year...don't need to pay extra attention to the rook.
Then he establishes himself as a threat.
Then teams gameplan around him and do things to shut down his production.
But continue on about calf size. Pretty funny stuff.
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Thanks to my adoring public, I feel obligated to answer these, albeit briefly, even though it's all just hope that Wimbley can get better based on just that.
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Mourg
well if you want current player first one comes to mind is adailius Thomas. Seems to me Thomas had something like 12 sacks in his first 4 years total.
Which is why I said I hope Wimbley can be the exception to the rule. I never said it's never happened. I said most rushers get it by their 3rd seasons.
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Dong
can you show us a pass-rushing LB/DE that has the calves that you're talking about? not to give you more work or anything, just that it's clear you have a type of calf in mind as "good calves."
when talking about explosion and being able to drive someone, the best other sport to look at is professional weightlifting.
It's less about "good calves" and more about the foundation from the knees down. That includes all the stablizers that surround the ankle. There have been numerous people on this very forum who've said that Wimbley looks wimpy in shorts. That should tell everyone something.
Regarding the weightlifting analogy, that doesn't take into account change of direction stability. Remember, what I'm talking about is more than just explosion. In terms of pass-rushing, a rushers own balance has to come first, and lacking stability around the ankles can cause those kinds of problems.
Lastly, regarding a pic, they are hard to come by, but here's one of Woodley who's about 10 pounds heavier than Wimbley:
MUCH bigger lower body
  
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Calzone
Curious as to when that college pic of Wimbley was taken. He weighed as little as 225 during his college carreer compared to the 255 he weighs now.
Right before the combine.
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Michael Jackson
The hate on Wimbley from Toad will continue even if he does succeed.
At the end of 09.. The guy could have 15 sacks.. and He will say it's because we played against weaker teams...
I said the same things about William Green, Minter, and Sean Jones. 
Quote:
Hel
A. Stats are for losers.
1A. Losers can't understand stats Quote:
B. Ya think opponents game planning might play a role?
Rookie year...don't need to pay extra attention to the rook.
Then he establishes himself as a threat.
Then teams gameplan around him and do things to shut down his production.
Yet you've left out the reason we're having this discussion.
In the two years since, what have teams done to gameplan against him? Double-team him? Uhhhhhhhh...............Nope. They eventually got to the point where they even left him singled-up with TE's at times. That's not a gameplan. That's a simple case of a coach saying "Don't let Wimbley beat you to the outside because he can't do anything else."
If you want to call that "gameplanning" then you win. 
What's most disturbing about all this love for a player that's been a non-factor for the past two years is that his scouting reports coming out all reflected that he was a "speed rusher" who "needed to get stronger." Well, he's about 8 pounds more than when he was first drafted, and there's nothing about his frame that says he can add strength. For two+ years we've all seen that he doesn't have anything besides the speed-rush, yet there's an abundance of hope that a coaching change is going to make the difference.
This is all wishful thinking. Hell, I wish he'd turn it on as well, but there's nothing substantial or emperical to hang that hat on.
Wishful thinking has been the foundation of many positive feelings about many stiffs on this team. To this day, none of the bums who've earned that positive vibe have panned out.
Couch, Green, Suggs, Winslow, Edwards, Dropcutt, Jurevicius, Brown, Warren, Thompson............the list of guys who had problems which couldn't be overcome is long, and each and every one of them had wishful thinking poored upon them. Maybe Wimbley can be the exception to the rule. My money says he won't be. Sure, he'll get a few sacks, then people will crawl out of the woodwork saying his light has finally come on. The best we can hope for is that he at least man's his position without costing the team big plays, because he simply doesn't have the arsenal of rush moves to be the game changing disruptor people want him to be.
Homerism is a predictable human response. Actually, this isn't Homerism. It's unbridled and undeserved optimism.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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How sadly fitting is this college scouting report from ESPN........
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Strengths
Possesses adequate-to-good height and shows room on his frame to add some bulk. He is quick and athletic. Has above average speed. Shows good initial burst and acceleration when turning the corner. Shows very good closing burst as a pass rusher. Is a fluid athlete who can change directions without losing too much in transition. Plays with very good leverage. He pursues the backside run hard. Plays with a good motor. Is at his best when on the move vs. the run. He takes good angles, shows closing burst and is an explosive tackler. Is very disruptive when turned loose upfield vs. the run. Is a solid wrap-up tackler in space. Is an impressive athlete for the position. Has a 38-inch vertical leap. Shows fluid hips and does a good job when occasionally asked to drop in coverage on zone-blitz.
Weaknesses
Lacks ideal starting experience. Was an underachiever throughout much of his first three seasons and injury set him back during his breakout season as a senior in 2005. He is undersized. Cannot hold up as a traditional DE in a 4-3 at his size. Must add bulk and strength. As it stands right now, he looks to be a situational edge rusher or 3-4 linebacker-type in the NFL. He plays with a narrow base and gets washed out too easily by bigger OT's that get into his pads. Also needs to improve his array of pass rush moves in order to fully maximize his speed and athletic ability. He really struggles to get off of initial block once OT locks on. Long-term durability is also concern.
Overall
Wimbley played in all 14 games as a backup defensive end as a true freshman in 2002. He started on of the 13 games he played in 2003, finishing with 38 tackles, 6.5 TFL and 2.5 sacks. As a junior in 2004, he finished with 27 total tackles, 5.5 tackles for loss and two sacks. Wimbley was having his best season prior to a knee injury (sprained MCL in left knee) that cost him nearly three full games as a senior in 2005. Despite the injury, he finished with 24 tackles, 10.5 TFL and 7.5 sacks in 11 games played. Wimbley is a prospect with a lot of upside. He spent the majority of his career at FSU playing in a rotation at the defensive end position and he missed significant time during the 2005 season (his first as a fulltime starter), so game-experience and stamina are concerns. He also lacks the size of a prototypical 4-3 defensive end and has limited experience dropping into coverage. As such, Wimbley could max out as a situational edge rusher as a wide-RDE and/or OLB in a 3-4 scheme in the NFL. However, Wimbley has decent size potential to go along with his very good speed and athletic ability. He has flashed explosive playmaking skills and it looked as if the light was finally coming on prior to his knee injury as a senior. After checking out physically and putting on an impressive showing at the combine, Wimbley's draft value is very much on the rise. At this point, it wouldn't be surprising to see Wimbley sneak into the bottom portion of the first round.
Wimbley
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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"And exactly who has done that?"
Possibly you... 
The rest sorry - low sugars kicking in...and going into a daze got to go eat something I'm normally not allowed to...a time I sort of wait weeks for
bye
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
Quote:
So says the man with Dianna Ross in his sig
I'll leave it for others to point out just how important the calves are to lower body stability and power..........
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/01tk5s9c6n5DK/610x.jpg
Maybe this is just a bad picture but Julius Peppers looks like he has the same size calves as KW. 
 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Toad..
Well why don't u make a few calls and get the Panthers to trade us Peppers for Wimbley... if that will make u happy..
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well hopefully since it took him 4 years to adjust to the college game, it will take him 4 years to adjust to the pro game. i'll cross my fingers
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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OK, I'm back from my lower sugar attack...Chocolate Cake was gone that I was eyeing...just OJ and a cup of fruit.
"Simply put, without the lower leg strength, it's harder to generate enough quickness and power to move a blocker off his center of gravity."
I love the way you debate...a lot to do about nothing. Sounds good but what about the substance....like the above quote. Got News for you Toad.
OLBs aren't suppose to move Blockers of their center of gravity  what a revelation almost all OTs in the NFL you will hear these words and shoot add the Interior also. "He gets his hands on you, you are done" - one of the most common quotes describing OLmen heck even my buddy Paul Z had that spoken about him.
Again I'll tell you straight up with no double talk about twitch muscle fibers  Its about explosion and when we are talking about an attack Defense its all about - NOT getting the blockers hands on you when we talk about OLB.
Wimbley did not have the POWER and yes calves to be engulfed by a LT and then "REACT" to a play and be of any use. That is why he was always disciplined enough to take the outside but had no ability to cut inside on the runner turning up the field in the 5 hole CGap. But a lot of that had to do cause he didn't hand check well enough keeping the blocker far enough away from him as you would see on the opposite side with McG. But if McG with his powerful calves had been engulfed by the RT like Wimbley would be by the LT...he also would have been powerless in most occasions.
Does he need to improve on his power techniqe and lower body? Most definitely we were told this by Mangini. But in doing so will you see a major difference in his calves??? I think not. Explosion and technique will define his success, he's always been a gym rat and will get more powerful as per Mangini's request!
JMHO - and you would be surprised how much of the base is defined by the "FEET" not the calves.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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and you would be surprised how much of the base is defined by the "FEET" not the calves.
been watching and reading this thread wondering when in the hell someone would get to the real ROOT of the equation ... and finally ... DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER ...
its all about the feet ... the feet are the base ... the feet are what matters ... and what makes the feet is ..
ankles (flexibility ... ya .. thats right .. i said flexibilty ... one of the things that made Barry Sanders so great was how "flexible" his ankles were .. that had everything to do with stopping and re starting on a dime ... and tabber that was not directed at U ... as i know u know that ... ) .. anyhow ...
feet = ankles + calves + knees + hammies + quads ...
the better equipped for certain things those areas are equate to how good your feet are ... and having big feet with the PROPER COMBO in the above parts is also important ... cause then u have a good base to utilize all those parts ... or in the case of someone like DA ... who does not have the proper "leg" delegation ... your just a plodding clod ...
are u a clod and have no coordination cause U have bad ankles so those great thighs are rendered useless ...
do u have great explosion becasue u have big hammies but can not change direction very good because your ankles and calves don't hold up to the stress it takes to change direction ... (and u do not need huge calves for that ... )
or are u that LT type athelete that has the total package in your legs that lead to great feet ...
its all about the FEET FOLKS ...
and Toad .. tabber is right ... kams problems are all about the hands .... even the great LT would be in deep trouble when the tackles got him into there bodies ...
its not like he just ran LT's or even RT's over ... and in no way am I comparing Kam to LT .... I am actually on your side of the war ... i do not think kam will be very much more than he all ready is ... but I am on tabs side in this battle ... it has VERY LITTLE to do with his calves and how powerful they are .. it has everything to with keeping the OLman off U with your hands and quickness ...
and bull rushing is about getting the OLman off balance and using that to get leverage on him and knocking him off his feet ... and that power is not generated by your calves bro ... it actually uses very little power and is more the ability to change direction and use the BIGGER PERSONS weight against him .... its a physics thing ... not a power thing ...
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As I have said a million times....by this point in a players career, he has been presented all the coaching he needs.
At some point it is simply a matter of he isn't good enough or he doesn't listen.
One could make a valid argument that Chump Thompson may not have been coached well enough when he came out of college.
I am no fan of Fla. St, Bobby Bowden, or Micky Andrews, but those guys know how to coach.
Wimp had solid coaching as a college player.
He has had everything in the book thrown at him from college to now.
If some are thinking he is finally going to get solid coaching....forget that idea.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
bull rushing is about getting the OLman off balance and using that to get leverage on him and knocking him off his feet ... and that power is not generated by your calves bro ... it actually uses very little power and is more the ability to change direction and use the BIGGER PERSONS weight against him .... its a physics thing ... not a power thing ...
EXACTLY!!  ....and what we're hearing so far makes me believe this a technique that they're trying to teach KW.....hope it works.
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I hope it works too ... but odds are it won't .... like our favorite spinning frog (that would be a great pic for your sig toad ... a SPINNIING TOAD .. as thats what u do best ... *L*) ...
anyhow .. like our favorite spinning frog says .. he has been well trained in all the techniques ... its not like theres a secret book that only guys named Bellicheck, Ryan and LaBeau are privy to ...
I really hope I am wrong .. but Toad and Peenie bring up valid points about guys either making a name and getting it in there first 3 or 4 years or they prolly never will ...
there is some exceptions .. like Harrison who couldn't even make the team until his third or fourth try ... but odds are against it ...
and i like Kam ... hes a good guy and a hard worker ... and hopefully he can put it all together cause hes the kind of guy U really root for ..... but i just don't see it ..
here's to hoping ...
on another note .. I really hope that DQ is half as good as these guys say he is .. cause he is another one .. I just don't see it .. think I'll go check out his thread .. haven't been there yet ...
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You guys can meander on about feet,calves,quads,buttocks till the cows come home,but the real problem with Wimbley is a muscle located mich higher,he has no heart.He's not a LB,and he'll never be one,no matter who coachs him.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Please..no one questions his heart..he just simply isn't that good..I usually get a good read on players after a season or two..seeing he regressed and never stayed level or improved , I knew that scouting report on him was accurate..
He got that first season through by surprising linemen..but once they figured him out they neutralized him well...also the fact that he isn't strong enough to fight through blocks is telling because he can get leverage , he doesn't use his hands well enough to shed the blocks..thus he's often gets sealed or moved outside..
Here's the biggest clue..he wasn't impressive in college..meaning he didn't change the game in any way..he was never a force..
The things the Browns need him to do are things he couldn't even do @ FSU..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 07/07/09 08:26 AM.
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Wimbley needs to get meaner, be more physical with a demolition attitude.
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Quote:
The hate on Wimbley from Toad will continue even if he does succeed.
At the end of 09.. The guy could have 15 sacks.. and He will say it's because we played against weaker teams...
You can't win w/ the guy... lol.
You say Wimbley could have 15 sacks like that is a possibility. I haven't seen anything since his rookie year that makes that seem likely. Wimbley has been a huge disappointment in my opinion. You don't draft Tweeners that high in the first to be average. You're right though, you can't win with the guy. Wimbley that is.
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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You might have misread what he posted. I don't think he quite stated that. Also if the kid got 11 as a rookie...a successful season could notch him 15...I don't see why not. Especially if we have 2 score leads often in the 4th
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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I didn't think about it, even though it's common sense, but that could actually be a humongous reason for our sack drop off.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Toad..
Well why don't u make a few calls and get the Panthers to trade us Peppers for Wimbley... if that will make u happy..
It would make ME happy and I'm not a fan of "Tweeners". I'd take a great player at 240 over an avg one at 265 any day. But Peppers has shown time and again he can flat out play. Wimbley on the other hand has regressed. So heck yeah, I'll take Peppers for Wimbley straight up ANY day. I really don't think you can convince the Panthers that's a good trade though. I wonder why....... 
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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I didn't think about it, even though it's common sense, but that could actually be a humongous reason for our sack drop off.
What, that we very seldom ever had anybody in a must pass situation? Never ever?
yebat' Putin
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LOL, why pass when you can run for 21 yds on 3rd and 20?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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You could only do that when Jim Brown was playing,.... 
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Hell, you could be 3rd and 99 with him at RB back in the day.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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