For pure cleanliness of attack, rhythmic precision and and metronomic drive, my favorite is:
STUART COPLAND, formerly of the Police. Listen to how he absolutely kills in Synchronicity2... (Ted Nugent was playing 'drop the needle' in an interview once, and they hit him with Synch2. Teddy boy said, I don't know who these guys are, but that drummer has them rockin their ***es off!") ...then check out how atmospheric and sensitive his playing is in "Wrapped Around Your Finger" with each new verse, the playing becomes more structured and active... and when they reach the middle of the 3rd verse ("I will turn your face to alabaster...) that snare kick just makes the whole piece. THAT'S how you build a piece, son... and all of it was on Stuart.
This is musical drumming at its best.
There are flashier guys with bigger drum kits, but (imho) don't NOBODY make more music with a drum kit than Stuart Copland. Dude is "El Guapo Numero Uno."
He IS also very, very good. 'Number One' over Peart -- ?? -- is a debatable, but solid, opinion,....
To continue this sidetrack, there are many drummers I "like" better than others while ignoring the technical aspects of a Copeland,...Ian Paice is/was a real bad dude,...I loved Don Brewer (still do), Bonham, Ringo, Alex Van Halen,...
I believe Michael Derosier is the drummer on Heart's "Barracuda."
Yes' original drummer is Bill Bruford -- solid.
Jimmy Fox of The James Gang -- highly creative.
Mitch Mitchell, recently deceased, on Hendrix's "Experience."
Wife and Mother-In -Law (STILL here for those of you who noticed from the other thread,...) are going out to dinner in a few minutes -- then I CAN JAM !!!!
Bruford- an excellent drummer. Always changing, and developing. Some very imaginative sticking and cross-rhythms, poly-meter... amazing. I loved his stuff with King Crimson, back in the day. He's more into jazz these days... and if you like stuff other than rock, check out his band "Earthworks."
Speaking of Jazz... there are few out there more solid, imaginative and versatile as Peter Erskine. Played lights out in Weather Report, adopted a more R&B style in Jaco Pastorius' Word of Mouth band, and is the number one session man on the scene today. Check him out for a real clinic on drumming... he's all over YouTube.
And here's another to check out: Dave Weckl... used to drum for Chick Corea. Here's a typical solo of his in a samba-inspired piece. Great cymbal work and complex crossrhythms... and notice how he never loses the pulse. This is such difficult stuff to pull off...
"Quadrophonic sound" was the big thing back then... and ELP were cutting-edge (...even 'bleeding edge') in their shows. I think that was half the appeal for me, back then. I remember hearing Emerson's minimoog swimming from one corner of the house to the next during their version of Alberto Ginastera's 'Toccata.' It was the "Brain Salad Surgery" promo tour. I picked up the album on a H.S. orchestra class trip to Cinci to see the Cincinatti Symphony in Feb. of that year, and had the entire album memorized by the time that concert went down. (July, wasn't it?)
"Festival seating"... air thick enough to cut with a knife... the concert promoters even relied on the fans to provide enough reefer smoke to enhance the laser display... man, thems was the days! I was straightedge as they come back then, but wouldn't have missed that concert for the world. My eyes were bleeding by the time we left.
Surprisingly enough, ELP had a reunion tour about 10-12 years ago. They played an auditorium not more than 4 blocks from the home I lived in then. I could have gotten out of work to see them, but I opted for the Tom Wolfe route: "you can't go home again"... and played a schlock gig across town with my current jobsters.
I'm cool with the decision I made, however. Since the bands/artists of our youth are all doing the 'moneygrab reunion/retread tours,' I've shared the stage with James Taylor, Sheena Easton, Mary Wilson (from the Supremes- great gig!) Ronnie Milsap (a surprisingly fun concert, btw), Al Jarreau, Art Garfunkel, Peter Cetera (vocalist for Chicago), and even Electric Light Orchestra. There are a ton more, but I can't recall them at this time.
Some of these gigs were surprisingly good, but I think I enjoyed them more from the stage than I would have from the house.The ones that were good all had one thing in common... they weren't "recapture your youth" shows. The artists brought new game to the show, and demonstrated a new maturity and growth from the days that landed them their hits.
When I looked out at the ELO crowd and saw all the gray hair in the seats... it reminded me of how much time has really passed since their heydays. And dude- I'm sorry.... a thousand glowing cellphones just don't look half as impressive as a thousand flickering BIC lighters... I don't care what anyone says!
Sue me- I'm old, and don't care any more...
Seeing which artists had aged well and which ones hadn't was sobering, as well.
When it comes to ELP, I want to remember them just as I saw them at Hara Arena. That's good enough for me, since the memories are as fresh as last week.
Thanks, StarglowEnergy... this was an absolute blast from the past. A truly fulfilling share between "Olde Dawgs."
For a moment or two, you helped me to be a teenager again. For that, I'm grateful.
You refreshed my memory to just how great the show really was! Man, that was a long time ago and you reacted it just like it happened yesterday, your memory of that night is very strong..just like the sweet aroma that lingered through the air in the Arena!
If I am not mistaken ELP were the first band to break out with the Quadrophonic sound system, but maybe I am wrong and the Who beat them to it, not sure!
I need to buy the DVD from the Royal Albert Hall...but seeing them live that night in Dayton was the BEST!
I have family up there in Dayton, and I visit a couple times a year...when I drive by Hara Arena...just an empty building with no action what-so-ever! That was not the case when I was a teenager in the 70's..it was a great place to catch all the concerts (and there were many) and to see Carl Casper's Car Shows!
Brain Salad Surgery----------listening to that one now!
Gentle Giant: "Octopus" "Aquiring the Taste" "Three Friends"
Arvo Pärt: Passio Tabula Rasa
and if you're into drumming, exotic sounds, Hindustani/trance/electronica:
Tabla Beat Science: Tala Matrix (2000) Live in San Francisco at Stern Grove (2002)
I love these guys... and I've followed their bassist, Bill Laswell for over 20 years- a monster. Here's a sample of their stuff. (it's out there, yo... but well worth a listen) EXPAND YOUR HORIZONS !!!!!!
... is that "lesser known" enough forya??? (hehehe)
Clem... If you are into Hindustani/trance/electronica check out the Desert Dwellers, DJ Drez, Banco de Gaia, David Starfire, Gaudi, and DJ Dragonfly. I work/stage/light music festivals. There is an amazing festival out here called Beloved that brings in some of the best Middle Eastern electronica/trance music from all around the world. It's an honor to be part of this event each year. http://www.belovedfestival.com/
BTW... have you ever heard of a cellist/avant-garde music/multi-media artist named Derek Johnson? He used to do lots of work in and around your area. Impressive dude. Used his acoustic instrument hooked up to electronics/loopers in combination with visuals- mainly abstract slide shows.
As to the original poster. Looking for a REALLY good album?... Blackshirt Highwaymen have one album called Apocalypto Electronica. It's a mix of Mississippi Delta blues with mild electronica undertones. A very good album that even those not liking electronica should much enjoy.
Quote: Haven't heard of him. I'll keep my eyes open.
As to the original poster. Looking for a REALLY good album?... Blackshirt Highwaymen have one album called Apocalypto Electronica. It's a mix of Mississippi Delta blues with mild electronica undertones. A very good album that even those not liking electronica should much enjoy.
i was waiting for your input, i'm gonna check these guys out. it seems like i am getting more and more into electronica and that entire genre.
by the way, love the grado headphones. thanks for the heads up on those.
you plug into the computer and it's above average. you plug it into the ipod and it blows the doors off, amazing.
Cool I'm glad you like the Grados. Plug them into music that's not compressed/not MP3s and watch out! They'll blow you away. Over the last few years my company has been lighting more and more electronica shows. I've been able to find some stuff in the scene that I really dig. DJs like Phutureprimative, DJ Devon, David Starfire, amongst others. There is a lot of different genres inside the electronica sound. I find that downtempo, breakbeat and goa/trance are more to my liking than other types. All too often people think of electronica as the crap they hear in dance clubs. Which is just a slice of the pie not the whole thing. Check out EOTO, Lotus, STS9, and Signal Path. All "live-tronica". Bands that play electronica. Extremely cool stuff. I've worked with EOTO a few times. They're not only very talented musicians (former percutionists of the String Cheese Incident) but also very cool guys. It's nice to see someone else on this board not stuck in the 80's.
I followed McLaughlin for years after that... through his "Shakti" phase, his trio work with Al DiMeola and Paco de Lucia. Dude was a pioneer, for sure.
'Birds of Fire' is considered a Fusion classic by most historians and critics/experts. I haven't listened to it for years, but I can still hear every note in my head. I must have worn out 3-4 copies of that disc.
The live album you're thinking of was entitled: "Between Nothingness and Eternity"... and you're right, it was great, too.
I'm not going to recommend a new album, as I tend to just listen to songs I like. With the newer age of downloading music, I've realized how many CDs I bought up through college that had a couple songs I enjoyed, and the rest sucked. So I basically just download what I want to hear instead of the whole album. I only buy the album if it's something I know I will enjoy and really want.
Some artists I've been listening to lately:
Cage the Elephant Vampire Weekend Eminem Lupe Fiasco Linkin Park Seether
It's not my favorite of his, but it does have it's moments, and I do like the CD.
I don't think he's quite as witty on this cd. It's like lyrically he just tried too hard to sound twisted. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed a good deal of the tracks. Dr. Dre produced every track but one. There's just a few tracks I didn't care for. Some of the songs have a horror movie feel to them, which are a lot of the tracks that I liked.
Em's a mystery to me. On one hand, he's one of the cleverest lyricists in the biz... and can make me laugh out loud.
On the other hand, some of his stuff that involves social commentary is deep enough to make me wish he did more of that.
I guess I'll just have to take what he gives us and be cool with that.
re: social content, I'm all up into some Nas. Takes the craft seriously, has something to say and isn't playing around- at all. I checked him out originally because I was into his Daddy's stuff. (Flow-azz Jazz trunpet player... really 'out there")
Quote: ...which makes an Old Dawg ask the question... "Why do you want to be brutalized and punished during your listening session?"
Not judging, just asking....
I'm here to 'mine gold' wherever I can, ya know...
It's kind of hard to explain. It's a cathartic, visceral experience for me, almost like the adrenaline rush you get when you drive a car very fast. Many people, when they hear music like that, write it off as talentless noise and screaming, but when I listen I hear every riff, lyric, and change in tempo. As a musician I'm sure you can appreciate that, even if the music isn't your cup of tea.
Heavy metal, especially extreme metal such asPig Destroyer, is a very small subset of what I listen to, but I get similar emotional feelings from the orchestral crescendos in "Moya" by Godspeed! You Black Emperor, the chorus of "Calm Americans" by Elliott, or Bowie's vocal in the bridge near end of "Under Pressure" by Queen (I provided YouTube links in case you're interested in listening to any of those).
I think I'm starting to get what the appeal is. There's a certain energy and rawness and realness that can't be derived from other more 'mainstream' genres that are readily available to the consumer.
The examples you gave me were very different, each to the other, and present a nice overview of your musical tastes. I get the impression that, if you were my age (Which I share with Starglow_Energy), you would have been into the so-called "Progressive movement" of our times.It was our version of the "alternative " movement, I suppose... whatever "alternative" means these days....
Of the tracks you offered me, only the first (Pig Destroyer) left me totally cold... but that might be due to my personal tastes. There was some fine-azz high-tech playing on the cut... but the vocals just killed it for me. I appreciated the fact that the vid you embedded featured an overlay of the lyrics... otherwise, I never would have known the piece's lyrical content. It just sounded like unintelligible screaming to me. In my 'old school' world, that's a minus... I believe that if you are going to include sung lyrics in your song, they should be intelligible without effort. Otherwise, you should do one of two things:
1. use the Human Voice as an instrument in the band, and forgo lyrics altogether, OR 2. make the lyrics intelligible enough to actually support the message of the song.
In other words... If you feature lyrics as a part of your band's appeal, PLEEZE don't make the audience work to hear the lyrics that you produce. If you're gonna scream, let me truly hear what you're screaming- without having to work so hard to do so.
(jmho)
_______________________
Some of what I do for a paycheck involves performing Opera... and I hate the fact many of the divas I work with fail to earn their paychecks for that very same reason... you can't hear what they're singing! Common practice nowadays is to superimpose the English translation on a skinny screen above the stage, so the audience can read the Italian-English or German-English translation... so the audience can understand the dialogue that's coming out as the story unfolds. (Here in America, we perform Opera in the original language. In most other countries, they translate for their core audience....) Only problem- sometimes, the opera was written and sung in English... And they STILL have to use the supertitles on the skinny screen above the stage, because the divas singing have such poor diction!
So... it's not just a problem with the band you offered to me- it's a personal issue. (I'm a perfectionist. It's a nasty by-product of the job I do, ya know?)
Aside from that, the piece you offered to us had great energy, drive, and exceptional technical musicianship. I just didn't need all that undecipherable screaming. In other words, the vocals detracted from the overall effect.
The Godspeed piece was a model of minimalist construction... and I liked it a lot! Building from a repeated theme is a concept I've loved for years... and one that has been used by The Greats of Classical Music. They (Godspeed) did it well, and they did it with a sense of pace and drama that is very compelling. I dug it to the max. If you love that "slow burn" type of performance, I suggest you look up "Sigur Ros." They're a band from Iceland, and use many of the same layering/growth techniques that I heard in your sampling.
The "Under Pressure" cut shows what a band can do, if they use a classic as a 'jumping-off point," and take it to the next step. They are wizards in the mixing room, and I give them props for their skillz. The only thing is this: Do any of their fans give Bowie (and his bandmates) credit for the origin of the base idea? I confess I don't know, because this genre isn't 'in my wheelhouse.' You'll have to tell me that. If they do, all then all the more props to them all... they understand that what was cool 'back then' then is cool now.
In all, Adam P, I'd have to conclude that you are interested in your music for many of the same reasons that attracted me and Starglow_Energy when we were young... It's different, fresher, and more stimulating that the usual crap that commercial media dumps on us. I can understand that, believe me.
Dawg... you are a true "trend bucker"... and it shows from your your tastes. If you wanna find out where your 'Modern-day Musical Heroes' got their inspiration, PM me... I'll be glad to give you some point in the 'right drection.'
Who knows? You might find some "Olde Schoole" stuff that trips your trigger... and gets you of into some stuff that you never knew existed.
I'm here for my peeps, Dawg. Thanks for sharing.
Music is my life. It's what I do, and it's what I am.
Truly in the realm of the lesser-known, but giants in their production of music. Ignored by the masses, adored by knowledgeable critics, this band was THE SHIZZ back in the day.
True originals. They don't sound like anyone else, and noone else sounds like them.
Their music is complex, melodic, and extremely sophisticated. They were a British '70-'80's ProgRock band from England. Their tunes were known for quicksilver changes in meter, style and instrumentation. They drew their stylistic influences from Folk, Soul, Jazz, Rock, Classical, Renaissance/Medieval and Experimantal Avant-Garde 20th c. Western Art Music. In short- 500 years of Music History can be found in their compositions... and each one was a masterpiece of craftsmanship and artistry.
Guitar (acoustic/electric) Bass Drums Keyboards (Steinway 9-foot Goncert Grand Piano, Moog synthesiser, Mellotron, Fender-Rhodes 78, Harpsichord, Clavinet, toy piano....) Violin Viola Cello Recorder (the blown, flutaphone-type Renaissance/Baroque wind instrument) Marimba Xylophone Tubular Bells (Orchestra Chimes... they sound like church bells) Hand Percussion (bongos, congas bohdran, crotales Saxophone(s) Oboe Vocals (lead and harmony)
It's incredible what this band was able to create. All their albums work as concept pieces, beginning to end.... but each individual piece stands on its own merits as a complete and wholly satisfying work.
I can't say enough superlatives to describe this band's body of work. They were, and still are, some of the most impressive musicians to ever get 'waxed' in the history of Rock Music.
Gentle Giant.... Giants, to be sure.
See some of their stuff here . It's some of the most imaginative, supremely crafted stuff you'll ever hear from a so-called "Rock Band".... Spend a little time with them, and you'll see why I've been a fan for over 30 years.
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