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THIS is reason to stop watching baseball. The Red Sox cheated and bought their titles.
Yes, and we're the only ones taking PED's, and spending money.
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2004 We averaged 22,400 a game
2005 We averaged 24,660 a game
We jumed up 2,000 per game and the majority of that was at the end of the season when we started to win. We missed the playoffs because we lost 6 out our last 7 games to Tampa and CWS, which left a bad taste in fans mouths. Even so Attendence stayed pretty much even.
2006 we averaged 24,670 a game
2007 we averaged 28,448 a game
So we raise attendance again because we started to win, we lose in the playoffs, do absolutly nothing have a terrible year in 2008 and yet our average in 2008 was still higher than 2006.
So who is wrong. Each year we started to win our attendence increased. But not being able to sustain success and have back to back winning seasons will always hurt that. Now let the Indians win the WS and come back the next season looking to repeat and you will see average attendence creap back to the mid 30,000 a game.
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Legend
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yeah attendance, 24k for those squads? that's great, especially for cleveland which is a small town. a football town at that.
compared to the 80's and the last days of the muni, that's pretty good.
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Your owner and GM stressed it would take pitching to win..they said they wanted titles..so why are they trading their best pitchers AWAY Nas????
Where the hell is this team going? With or without Lee?
I mean, seriously...some of you are acting like we're a half game out of 1st place right now and we just traded out best pitcher. WE'RE DAMN NEAR 20 GAMES UNDER .500 in baseball's WEAKEST division. Keeping one pitcher, especially one that's going to be gone in 14 months, does absolutely NOTHING for the future of this franchise. How is that so hard to understand?!?!
As for the trade...where exactly was our leverage in trying to pry prospects away from Philadelphia? That they weren't going to part with for Roy Halladay? Halladay has TWICE the track record Lee does and the Phillies weren't ponying up Drabek for him. Halladay has better stuff then Lee, a career ERA that's a half run better and about 60 career wins more than Cliff. If they weren't willing to give up those guys for Halladay how can you expect them to give them up for Lee?! Should Shapiro have sprinkled some magic ferry dust around and done a river dance?
Let me put this way to you since you seem satisfied with the trade.
Are the Indians becoming a playoff team if they deal their stars away for prospects?
How do you bring in talent Nas?
At some point you have to trade for major league talent...
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I don't see how this somehow helps hammer home the point that Dolan needs to spend more money? We won the division in 2007 and didn't even average 30K? That's MISERABLE attendance. Progressive field holds 43,515.....so the Tribe only averaged 65% capacity in a year we should have won the WS.  And you're telling me the fans DON'T need to come more then they are? and that the solution is to spend more money?  I'd love an explanation on how you came to that conclusion? In a year in which we tied for the best record in baseball, we finished 21st in attendance!? It's pretty obvious what one of the problems is and it's not that Dolan isn't spending enough.....You can't competitively spend year after year as a small market team when, even in a great year, you can only attract a 65% attendance rate.
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Report: Manny, Ortiz tested positive
July 30, 2009, 12:36 PM ET
Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003, lawyers with knowledge of the results told The New York Times.
The two were key members of the Boston Red Sox World Series teams in 2004 and 2007.
Excellent! Before this story broke, we couldn't consider the Red Sox titles illegitimate even though they were essentially "bought and paid for." However, now, we can say that the Red Sox titles are NOT LEGITIMATE because two of their core players were cheating!
I look forward to the day that baseball reinstates the records of Roger Maris and Hank Aaron, and also revokes all victories won by teams that had players on any sort of illegal performance enhancing drug.
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I don't see how this somehow helps hammer home the point that Dolan needs to spend more money?
We won the division in 2007 and didn't even average 30K? That's MISERABLE attendance.
Progressive field holds 43,515. So the Tribe only averaged 65% capacity in a year we should have won the WS. And you're telling me the fans DON'T need to come more then they are? and that the solution is to spend more money? I'd love an explanation on how you came to that conclusion?
In a year in which we tied for the best record in baseball, we finished 21st in attendance!? It's pretty obvious what one of the problems is and it's not that Dolan isn't spending enough.....You can't competitively spend year after year as a small market team when, even in a great year, you can only attract a 65% attendance rate.
OK, but my point was the next year they did worse. So all of the momentum they had from 2007 was gone. If they had gone out and spend some freaking money after the 2007 season and stayed a competitive team they would have sold more.
The attendence was bad at the begining of the year of 2007 because of a poor 2006 season. As the season went on including after the All-Star game the attendence went up. They sold out every Friday, Saturday and Sunday game IIRC. We have a let down in the post season and then start out 2008 bad. The season was over in MAY. What do you expect the attendence for the rest of the year to look like???
And again if the damn team will win the WS and come back the next year competing the win it again you will se the stadium sell out more times than not.
![[Linked Image from mypsn.eu.playstation.com]](http://mypsn.eu.playstation.com/psn/profile/Letherface.png)
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I disagree....I mean the Tribe jumped up to #15 in salary this season....
what good has it done but put us back at #27 in attendance.
spending money does not always equate to wins (and pitching is where we spent it last offseason)....and Dolan has increased our salary ranking every year since 2004 (that is team salary compared to rest of MLB)
#gmstrong
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I disagree....I mean the Tribe jumped up to #15 in salary this season....
what good has it done but put us back at #27 in attendance.
spending money does not always equate to wins (and pitching is where we spent it last offseason)....and Dolan has increased our salary ranking every year since 2004 (that is team salary compared to rest of MLB)
I guess I don't understand what your disagreeing on? I never said just throwing money would solve the situation. Obviously we would need to spend the money on the "right" talent.
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Look at attendance records vs. team salaries the last 4 years. The Indians clearly are over spending based on their draw at the gate: 2006: #25 in attendance, #25 in payroll 2007: #21 in attendance, #23 in payroll 2008: #22 in attendance, #16 in payroll 2009: #27 in attendance, #14 in payroll So there's been an uptick in payroll each of the last 4 years and a down tick in attendance. So how did some of you come to the conclusion that we need to spend more money? and that the fans are already doing their part? Blaming Dolan is the easy way out. The proof is in the pudding as they say. He's increasing payroll while attendance is slipping and yet this is still his fault? I love that logic.
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fair enough....if we go and spend our money on the right guys who end up putting us in contention, then attendance will rise. i will not debate that simple fact.
however, as a small market team, we are seeing what happens when you get one or two of those higher priced free agents wrong. boston would just say "oh shucks, he's a bust" we have to figure out how to cut salary and reload with new talent for another run that might be a couple years off. there are some on here suggesting that we should just put more money into finding the right free agents at that point, but I just don't see how that's possible nor do I see it as Dolan being a cheapskate (our salary rank and attendance rank have always been similar...except this year when our salary is way higher than our attendance...that is not being cheap).
the only real way for a small market team to compete for a long stretch is to be consistently bad for a long period of time and draft well (see Tampa) and then make smart trades with their assets that will not hinder them presently but still keep their farm system stocked (not sure if they can pull this one off). this is incredibly difficult to do and requires the team stink for a long time first to even set it up.
#gmstrong
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Over 100 MLB players were on that list. Don't act like the Indians didn't have a player or two on there. How can you consider our title illegitimate, when we won it against other teams who had players who were juicin'? Seeing the people like you who despise Boston, makes me glad to be a Sox fan. All great teams have haters 
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you can look at the payrolls, but this team has chosen to not retain key players, or as mark shapiro puts it "core players"
the best part is that the dolans said they wanted to build this thing around pitching when they first took the team over.
365 deals later, they dealt 2 cy young award winners.
had this team been able to keep their own pitchers, and somehow solidify the bullpen, they could have had an atlanta braves type run where they are always contending.
and i understand that the way baseball works would make it hard, but i am just saying. the dolans have done nothing but lie to fans. you can look at where the tribe is in payroll, but that means nothing to me, i have no faith that this team can keep likable and productive players around. it's always going to be about the future with this team.
people are knocking mark shapiro, for some trades that didn't work, for signings that didn't work, but it only looks bad because in his position, he has to be near flawless for it to work.
but again, major league baseball is garbage. the big city teams get to compete every year, and teams like us get a shot once every decade now. yes, the tribe went twice in the 90's, but ever since the yankees and red sox created their own networks, it's gonna be like this, once every ten years we'll have a shot at a ring.
every single year the yankees, red sox, and all the other big market teams will have a chance at a world series.
garbage.
that's what this boils down to. we all know cliff lee wasn't staying past 2010. he has said he wants to test free agency, which basically means he's going to a big market club. but this move, and because of some of the facts is just fodder for us to take shots at the dolans, and rightfully so. this was a salary dump.
bottom line? 2 cy young winning pitchers who aren't anywhere near the end of their prime gone, and not one major league ready ballplayer in return.
that is embarassing.
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Oh, and by the way, has it come out what they tested positive for? Maybe it was a drug that was not banned during that time, like A-Rod.
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Look at attendance records vs. team salaries the last 4 years. The Indians clearly are over spending based on their draw at the gate:
2006:
#25 in attendance, #25 in payroll
2007:
#21 in attendance, #23 in payroll
2008:
#22 in attendance, #16 in payroll
2009:
#27 in attendance, #14 in payroll
So there's been an uptick in payroll each of the last 4 years and a down tick in attendance. So how did some of you come to the conclusion that we need to spend more money? and that the fans are already doing their part?
Blaming Dolan is the easy way out. The proof is in the pudding as they say. He's increasing payroll while attendance is slipping and yet this is still his fault? I love that logic.
I'm sorry I missed the year they won the World Series. Which year was that?
Yeah I blame Dolan, and Shapiro, and Wedge. Who am I suppose to blame?
Let's see:
2006:
#25 in payroll - Small Payroll
#25 in attendance, and they had a bad season.
2007:
#23 in payroll - Still same team from 2006 pretty much.
#21 in attendance,Had a great season, lost in the playoffs and did Nothing besides resign Westbrook and Hafner.
2008:
#16 in payroll - Payroll jumped because of Hafner and Westbrook.
#22 in attendance, Team was out of the Playoffs in MAY.
2009:
#14 in payroll - Signed Kerry Wood.
#27 in attendance, Second straight year we are out of the Playoffs in MAY.
ANY QUESTIONS??????
Now, for the last time. I understand what they did this season. MY ISSUE was after the 2007 season they did nothing. That is the time they needed to open the pocket book (Dolan), go out and get the right talent (Shapiro) and manage the team to the World Series (Wedge).
Dolan would only allow Shapiro to raise the salary to a certain amount and he used most of that to resign Westbrook and Hafner. There was nothing really left after that to sign anyone of significance to make the team better. Shapiro should have done a better evaluation of Hafner because that was one of the worst mistakes he has made.
I COMPLETLY UNDERSTAND WHY THEY GOT RID OF LEE AND ARE CUTTING PAYROLL THIS YEAR.
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that was a good post...but a little hard to follow...this is the summary I got out of it from you (let me know if I misintepreted):
so it's not Shapiro's fault because he has to be near flawless....but it is his fault because he didn't get MLB ready talent in return on his latest trades
so it's not Dolan's fault because MLB is garbage and setup for the big cities....but it is his fault because he didn't retain corps players (especially pitchers).
Is that about right? I agree with most of it.
I agree with your assertions that MLB is setup this way and it makes it frustrating rooting for a small market team because of that sometimes.
I agree that Shapiro making a mistake can handcuff us for a season or two, which puts him in a tough position.
I don't agree that Dolan hasn't tried to keep corps players around though....we resigned Hafner and Westbrook. Take away those contracts and we would have possibly been able to resign CC or Lee (possibly both)....we chose badly there.
I don't agree that we should always get MLB ready talent in return...a lot of times you can get better players by taking younger players. You can get guys with higher ceilings by taking younger kids sometimes. Also, the Phillies positional prospects that are MLB ready are OF and we have enough of those (not to mention that Marson and Donald could/should both be up next year).
#gmstrong
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You are not a true Cleveland Fan.
You don't root for the Browns, the Cavs and the Indians. All Cleveland sports. I see your Reds pic.
Sorry, but this is a load of crap. The "Cleveland" thing is lame. Anyone following a team for the majority of their life is going to feel strongly about their team. I'm a Reds fan and have been all my life. Being a Clevelander doesn't give you squat as far as loyalty and getting angry about your team and the things they do.
That being said, Deepthreat is way off base chastising people for being angry. Obviously throwing a temper tantrum and saying you are leaving for another team is pathetic, but consider the source. The fans have every right to be upset over these crappy moves and a lack of success.
I do wish MLB would do something to change the inequities in the game, but I think a lot of teams use this to excuse bad decision making and failure.
I agree with your last part of your reply there, but I think what I said as far as "true Cleveland fan" is being misunderstood.
What I'm trying to get across is that I follow all Cleveland sports. He doesn't (meaning fan). It doesn't mean at all that he doesn't have strong feelings for his team. What I'm trying to get across is living and supporting these teams has lead to so many heartaches. We've seen a lot and have hurt a lot over the years.
In his younger age, he hasn't experienced it all. He may know about The Drive, he may know about The Fumble, but he didn't run into the other room and cry his eyes out when it happened.
Being a Reds fan, he didn't feel what it was like to have the best record in baseball and get our butts handed to us in the World Series. He didn't watch us collapse in game 7 of the '97 series and then feel deal with the heartache of it, or feel the pain of blowing a 3-1 series lead over Boston, knowing we would more than likely beat Colorado. He may know about it, but he didn't experience it.
All I'm trying to say is, living and dying Cleveland sports takes a toll. It's tough, and he hasn't been around long enough to experience it all, nor root for all the teams to experience those other situations.
That's all. He can root for whoever he wants. I just don't think he can sit here and say someone is being a baby when their upset about the trade.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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you can be a cleveland fan, an indians fan, and choose not to pour money into the team.
that's what i am doing. i am not putting another cent of my money into them, no tickets at regressive field, no merch, no nothing.
i'll continue to follow them as much as i can, watch whatever games i can, but i'm not stepping foot back in that stadium until this organization changes their culture and/or major league baseball comes up with an nfl/nba type structure (which will never happen, see 1994)
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This whole thing boils down to money. If players couldn't hop around from team to team and league to league because they know they can get more--and those amounts are already way out of touch with the real world--there wouldn't be a problem.
We need a pay scale that is based on longevity and results, not the whims of an agent. It is a nightmare and people are fed up. You aren't dumping any more money unto the Tribe ?? I haven't purchased a ticket since 1995 when MLB cancelled the World Series.
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Dawg Talker
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That's pretty spot on..
It has gotten hard to take.. Next summer will be my fifth summer here in MN and I know for sure that for the first time I will not buy the cable MLB package that costs $165 a year..
Next year I am just gonna buy that MLB TV thing for my laptop which is much cheaper, plus you can do it month to month..
Indians are personally a big part of my summer.. Love gettin home from the office and watching the game as I eat dinner or drink a few cold ones.. I am emotionally attached to all the teams, but there is nothing like a good baseball team where you can get your fix every day... To know that there is ZERO hope of winning the division next year (a crappy division at that) is very disheartening
I heart winning
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Legend
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That's pretty spot on..
It has gotten hard to take.. Next summer will be my fifth summer here in MN and I know for sure that for the first time I will not buy the cable MLB package that costs $165 a year..
Next year I am just gonna buy that MLB TV thing for my laptop which is much cheaper, plus you can do it month to month..
Indians are personally a big part of my summer.. Love gettin home from the office and watching the game as I eat dinner or drink a few cold ones.. I am emotionally attached to all the teams, but there is nothing like a good baseball team where you can get your fix every day... To know that there is ZERO hope of winning the division next year (a crappy division at that) is very disheartening
and for the next few years. tribe fans have a rough road ahead.
i would love to see mlb come up with an nba type system where teams are allowed to keep their own guys. the cavs can offer lebron more than anyone else because of the rules of the collective bargaining agreement, i'd like to see that phased into mlb.
i'd also like to see a basement with the salary cap. you can spend only a top amount and you have to be over a certain bottom price, which would weed out crappy owners of teams like the pirates, royals, and indians.
i know that it would be difficult, because of the fact that you are almost always calling up and sending down guys, but i believe a plan could be put in place, problem is the players will just strike. of course they will. they get these fat bloated contracts now, you can kiss those goodbye with a cap.
i don't think it'll ever happen in any of our lifetimes.
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I don't see how this somehow helps hammer home the point that Dolan needs to spend more money?
We won the division in 2007 and didn't even average 30K? That's MISERABLE attendance.
Progressive field holds 43,515. So the Tribe only averaged 65% capacity in a year we should have won the WS. And you're telling me the fans DON'T need to come more then they are? and that the solution is to spend more money? I'd love an explanation on how you came to that conclusion?
In a year in which we tied for the best record in baseball, we finished 21st in attendance!? It's pretty obvious what one of the problems is and it's not that Dolan isn't spending enough.....You can't competitively spend year after year as a small market team when, even in a great year, you can only attract a 65% attendance rate.
OK, but my point was the next year they did worse. So all of the momentum they had from 2007 was gone. If they had gone out and spend some freaking money after the 2007 season and stayed a competitive team they would have sold more.
The attendence was bad at the begining of the year of 2007 because of a poor 2006 season. As the season went on including after the All-Star game the attendence went up. They sold out every Friday, Saturday and Sunday game IIRC. We have a let down in the post season and then start out 2008 bad. The season was over in MAY. What do you expect the attendence for the rest of the year to look like???
And again if the damn team will win the WS and come back the next year competing the win it again you will se the stadium sell out more times than not.
DING DING DING!
Here's the cycle...
2005...Indians come on strong at the end...ticket sales are higher for early 2006.
2006 Indians suck, despite higher tickets sold in beginning of season...ticket sales for the PRIME PART OF THE SEASON (read: summer) are down.
2007...Indians are good, but ticket sales are slow during the early months because fans are skeptical.
2008...repeat 2006.
2009...worse than 2008 because the Indians sucked in '08 and were worse in '09.
Maybe if we had TWO SUCCESSFUL SEASONS IN A ROW attendance for that second year would be WAY up, especially come June, July and August.
Don't blame the fans for not coming out to see a rotten product.
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1st String
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well everyone what will happen in the next 24 hours?
Victor?
Peralta?
Shoppach?
Carroll?
I think we are getting closer to keeping Victor... the Red Sox seem to be the only team interested and it sounds as if they will not let go of Buccholz and another prospect or two.
I think if someone calls about Peralta we must listen and if we can get something remotely good let him go.
Shoppach could be gone if Victor stays or goes. We could make it through the rest of the season with Toregas and Marson
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Legend
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i think victor stays. i think the outburst by both fans and media may actually make this organization think twice about victor martinez, who is well liked by most tribe fans.
i think shoppach could be moved if victor is not moved. that could allow santana to come up and split time with victor.
i would listen to offers for peralta, but i think we end up keeping him as i don't see much interest. i would rather have peralta than the single a prospect we'd probably get for him.
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1st String
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If Shoppach... where to? Rays?
I'm trying to think of who may be interested in Shop...
What about Kerry Wood too? If we could get his contract off the books I think its a win no matter what we get in return..
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Legend
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If Shoppach... where to? Rays?
I'm trying to think of who may be interested in Shop...
What about Kerry Wood too? If we could get his contract off the books I think its a win no matter what we get in return..
i think a lot of teams wouldn't mind having a backup catcher with a little bit of power. we won't get much for him but it would allow us to let a younger player who could be part of our future play. i love shoppach but it may be good for him to get a shot somewhere else.
i dunno if anyone wants to take kerry wood but considering this lee trade was a salary dump you have to imagine shapiro may try and get him dealt by tomorrow, maybe the scrubs want him back. who knows. i say deal him considering he's signed through next year and we're going to suck anyways.
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Martinez is as good as gone, IMO. No fan backlash is going to stop the Dolans.
My guess? Sox, Rays, Mets, Dodgers.
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Martinez is as good as gone, IMO. No fan backlash is going to stop the Dolans.
My guess? Sox, Rays, Mets, Dodgers.
The Red Sox are the only team that could put together a good package.... The Dodgers refuse to let go of Billingsley or Kershaw and their system isn't that great. Mets and Rays systems are both weak.
The Red Sox are the only contender and if they don't go more than Buccholz a deal will not get done. Maybe Varitek will break his leg tonight and they'll have to get him and we will give them.....
Victor for Buccholz, Bowden, Kelly, and Masterson
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Martinez is as good as gone, IMO. No fan backlash is going to stop the Dolans.
My guess? Sox, Rays, Mets, Dodgers.
The Red Sox are the only team that could put together a good package.... The Dodgers refuse to let go of Billingsley or Kershaw and their system isn't that great. Mets and Rays systems are both weak.
The Red Sox are the only contender and if they don't go more than Buccholz a deal will not get done. Maybe Varitek will break his leg tonight and they'll have to get him and we will give them.....
Victor for Buccholz, Bowden, Kelly, and Masterson
I think the lure of a salary dump will ultimately force Shapiro's hand.
It's unprecendented that we have this little leverage given the players we have to dangle, but we have little leverage.
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Victor for Buccholz, Bowden, Kelly, and Masterson
Are you serious? The Red Sox didn't even trade Buchholtz for Victor, why would they do that?
BTW, Victor has a horrible 640 something OPS since June, so don't expect to get a whole lot for him.
you had a good run Hank.
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1st String
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Quote:
Quote:
Victor for Buccholz, Bowden, Kelly, and Masterson
Are you serious? The Red Sox didn't even trade Buchholtz for Victor, why would they do that?
BTW, Victor has a horrible 640 something OPS since June, so don't expect to get a whole lot for him.
read carefully... i said maybe Varitek will break his leg and the Red Sox will be forced to give up the bank for Victor.
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How can you consider our title illegitimate
Because Boston isn't "legitimately" a city. It's a giant toilet filled with giant turds.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Victor for Buccholz, Bowden, Kelly, and Masterson
Are you serious? The Red Sox didn't even trade Buchholtz for Victor, why would they do that?
BTW, Victor has a horrible 640 something OPS since June, so don't expect to get a whole lot for him.
read carefully... i said maybe Varitek will break his leg and the Red Sox will be forced to give up the bank for Victor.
Even if they did, they aren't going to rip the heart out of their farmsystem for Victor Martinez.
you had a good run Hank.
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Legend
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Legend
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The Boston Red Sox and the Cleveland Indians were discussing a three-way trade Thursday night that would send Victor Martinez to Boston, Clay Buchholz to Cleveland and prospects flying in all directions, according to clubs that spoke to both teams. The Red Sox also would attempt to move recently acquired Adam LaRoche, either to a third team or in a companion deal, to make room for Martinez in their lineup, one source said. The Red Sox have spent several days working on parallel deals with Toronto for Roy Halladay, San Diego for Adrian Gonzalez and Cleveland for Martinez. There were indications Thursday afternoon that they were making no headway with Toronto and San Diego, but that they were having trouble making the pieces fit with Cleveland. They began contacting other teams to help make the deal fit and are believed to still be searching for a third team. One potential reason for involving a third club was the need to find a destination for LaRoche, who would seem to be crowded out by the acquisition of another bat for the Boston lineup. But with very few contending teams searching for a first baseman, finding a taker for LaRoche could be a challenge. In the meantime, the Red Sox don't appear to be the only team talking to the Indians about Martinez. There were also indications Thursday that Cleveland was still having conversations with Tampa Bay. The Indians were heavily scouting the Rays' system and had multiple scouts watching their triple-A Durham team. However, the Rays don't seem to have the financial flexibility to absorb the approximately $2 million left on Martinez's contract this year without subtracting a player such as Scott Kazmir at the same time. One source familiar with the Rays' thinking admitted the team was still a long shot to pull off two deals that big. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4368061that sounds like Bucholz and prospects for Victor.....and we are getting a third team involved because the BoSox farm system is devoid of pitching prospects (and the very few they have, they probably want to hold onto). interesting. i like TB's prospects better....but I see that less likely.
#gmstrong
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i'm trying to think of who would take LaRoche....1B seems to be a pretty set position for most contenders. And what team would "settle" for LaRoche instead of going straight for Victor.
Only thing would be if they "upgraded" their prospects and took on LaRoche NBA-style trading.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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for everyone complaining about how MLB is unfair for Tribe fans....
I think TB has it worse right now....they have a contending team except they are in the same division as the Yanks and BoSox. Despite that, they are right in it with a #25 ranked payroll and cannot add $2mil to get Victor Martinez who might just push them into the playoffs.
then, don't forget to add in the 10 years of misery that allowed them many, many high draft picks that now allow them to compete yearly on a shoestring budget.
but, wow....so close....one piece...and still they cannot do it without shipping out salary.
and no, don't count Victor's salary next season...they could always trade him this offseason if that is a concern, there will be takers.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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that tampa team is doomed. when those guys are up for contracts, boom, outta here.
i agree though, tampa, baltimore, toronto, those teams walk into april and may knowing they have very little chance. tampa had the pieces fall into place last year, but 9 out of 10 times the yankees or sox will grab the east, and the other will probably get the wild card.
i think it's funny that the talking heads on espn, the mike and mike's, the cowherds, the van pelts, all those guys CONSTANTLY complain about the bcs and how it is unfair, yet they really don't ever complain about the obvious problem in baseball has with an unfair playing field.
just further proof that they cater to big markets. the only reason they complain about the bcs is because they could really cash in on playoff games. ratings would be through the roof.
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for everyone complaining about how MLB is unfair for Tribe fans....
Let's be clear here: It's about EVERY team that isn't afforded the opportunity contend based solely on their lack of payroll.
I'd hardly call the Rays "in it" as they continue on life-support at 7 games back.
Now, as Tribe fans we aren't in a good spot. Instead of adding pieces when we need'em, we're the team that has to dump good players not because we don't want them, but because we can't afford them.
I'm not going after Dolan here. I'm going after BASEBALL here. Anyone that feels things are OK in MLB, feel free to list all the teams in each division that are winning, and where that team stands in terms of payroll. Then turn around and examine the cellar-dwellars and do the same.
That's all which needs to be said.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Now, as Tribe fans we aren't in a good spot. Instead of adding pieces when we need'em, we're the team that has to dump good players not because we don't want them, but because we can't afford them.
Explain some the bad contracts to players who aren't producing..explain in 07 when they coulda spent to add pieces all they really added was kenny Loften.
It is about the system in baseball but it's a;so about how the Indians have spent their money and they haven't done it wisely.
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