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I figured this would be a fun idea to see where everyone's thoughts are on this coming season.
2009 Cleveland Browns
Coach: Eric Mangini
Offensive Coordinator: Brian Daboll
Defensive Coordinator: Rob Ryan
Projection: Wildcard contender (too hard to guess records at this point of the season)
Overview:
I may be called crazy but I have high hopes for the 2009 Cleveland Browns. Most of the national media is picking them to be dead last in the division. I disagree. I'm not expecting a Lombardi trophy this season but I do expect the Browns to be competitive. Here's why...
1) We fortified the offensive and defensive lines this past offseason. The OL will run block better than they have since our return in 1999. Alex Mack was an awesome addition to the line when facing Hampton and Ngata 4 times a year.
2) We added depth at cornerback and receiver. One of the pitfalls of the 2008 Browns was relying on Terry Cousins to play nickelback...he was torched. Rod Hood fills that void along with a competition between Corey Ivy and two rookies for the dimeback spot. Receiver wise, we had nothing after Donte Stallworth last season (who was worthless). We drafted Robiskie and Massaquoi in the 2nd round while retaining Braylon Edwards (who will be motivated by a contract year). Robiskie is very polished and ready to start NOW. Massaquoi has potential as the #3 but if he's not ready then Mike Furrey will take his place, he had a 1000 yard season in Detroit a couple years back.
3) A safety who can actually cover - Goodbye Sean Jones, Hello Abram Elam.
4) Even though our linebacking core is still questionable in my eyes, we did make some moves to improve depth/add pieces to the puzzle by signing Bowens and Barton, and drafting Veikune and Maiava. I believe Veikune's going to make his mark on 3rd downs this year. He may be a project moving to the linebacker spot but passrushing might be one of the easier transitions to the NFL.
5) Coaching. I honestly believe Romeo Crennel cost the Browns several games last season with shoddy gameplans and shoddy coaching decisions. I'm a big...BIG believer in Mangini's coaching methods. I love the addition of Rob Ryan as defensive coordinator...the defense is going to be more aggressive this year and I can't wait. I've listened to every press conference Mangini's given since coming to Cleveland and I'm blown away by his thoroughness and desire for a smart, detail oriented, versatile team. I love his disciplinary coaching style and attention to detail. People forget the Jets were the best team in the NFL before Favre's arm was injured.
The Verdict: Talent-wise, the 2009 Browns may not wow people at first glance, but the closet is not bare like in years before with new regimes. Mangini walked into a situation with question marks and very quickly added his pieces to the roster. With one of the best left sides in football on the offensive line, I expect the Browns to be a power running team and be successful at it. With an easier schedule than last season, I believe an improved record for the Browns is a no-brainer. My biggest concerns are QB, pass rush and run D, but I believe Mangini has done a LOT to improve this team and it has flown under the radar in the scope of the entire NFL. Look for the Browns to surprise and be wildcard contenders.
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I'll put it this way.....I am the most stoked for a upcoming season since we came back. That included last year and the year after we made the playoffs. I saw big holes and glaring needs after each of those seasons when alot of people was thinking we were ready to make our move.  Not me!!!! Not till this year.  I feel like this is the year we can make some real waves by looking consistant.  We might not make the playoffs but we for the FIRST time are heading in the right direction and have a feeling if things come together quicker than most think......we just might give it a run though. 
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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See, I love your optimism but I'm not with it. Quote:
1) We fortified the offensive and defensive lines this past offseason. The OL will run block better than they have since our return in 1999. Alex Mack was an awesome addition to the line when facing Hampton and Ngata 4 times a year.
I feel like our best like period was 2007. And runblocking better than we did in 2007 is doubtful. I just don't like these guys on the right side of the line. We have the same guys on the left, with Alex Mack over Fraley (his first year here, and he was good) it's even if not a downgrade. The right side of Ryan Tucker/Seth McKinney at RG and Schaffer at RT was pretty good. Joe Thomas might be a better runblocker but otherwise, it's not as good.
That RT position is very questionable. And I think it could leave our QB getting smoked over and over. I am not so sure about releasing an adequate (at least in 2007, although our worst O-Lineman) Schaffer without a viable option to take his place. I'm thinking we get another right tackle before the season starts possibly
Receiver is also a position that makes me nervous. People wanted to trade Braylon Edwards for very little in return. That would have driven our offense into the ground. Now we need two more options to step up to give us the magic 3 number of viable receiving options. This can be a combination of Robiskie, MoMass, Furrey, Patton, Hubbard, and Rucker (at the TE spot).
None of these guys are proven, and none of them are true number two options in my eyes. I'm hoping that one surprises me this year, but none of these players are going to spark the same fear that even Stallworth provided next to Braylon Edwards. Unfortunately, our number 2 (or number 1.....) was Winslow and he's gone. That production won't be made up for by Royal or Heiden. So we lost our number 2,3,4 (winslow, stallworth, jurevicious). And replaced them with two rookie receivers, and two veterans at varoius points on the downside of their careers.
Whether people or Braylon Edwards likes it or not, Braylon Edwards will be on this team this year and next year if the CBA is reached. And for our team to be successful, two receivers are going to have to step up besides Braylon Edwards and be effective. This could kill our offense.
Quote:
3) A safety who can actually cover - Goodbye Sean Jones, Hello Abram Elam.
I've always been a little dissapointed in the Elam pickup, but this is a good point Ammo. While Elam is not the safety that I wanted (a free safety), he should cover better than Sean Jones, who has really regressed in that skill. Jones can get to the ball very well and is very strong against the run, but he can't cover a TE for his life. His skills against the pass are just poor. Elam should be an upgrade in that reguard.
The other positions which will hinder us will be linebacker. Even with the continuing improvement of Kamerion Wimbley (at coverage and against the run) and addition of Barton, the linebackers still won't make tackles at the line of scrimmage and we'll continue to get run all over (it just always seems to happen). It's just something I'm very skeptical about, when was the last time that we were any good at stopping the run........
Even worse, we will keep rushing the passer poorly. Wimbley is a number 2 OLB rusher. Worse, I'm not sure we can switch where he lines up and have him be effective at all. Wimbley, while a very good guy and hard worker, might only have one move which he can only do from one side. Otherwise, his other techniques will continue to be ineffective, as he has no spin move or bull rush that can beat an NFL linemen.
Is Bowens, Veikune, or Hall going to step up and get close to double didgit sacks? I doubt it.
Runningback is also an issue. While Jamal Lewis might have been injured last year, he's definitely lost a step and become one of the slower runningbacks in the NFL. His one hard cut has become slower and he can't outrun most players. I sure hope that we don't hang on to Lewis as he consistently gives us no more than 80 yards in 20 carries. At some point, Harrison definitely deserves a chance to try to be a starter. Otherwise this position will have to be addressed in FA or early in the draft.......
So........with new coaching and an easier scheudle, I think the Browns might go 8-8. Probably 7-9
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I'm cautiously optimistic, deepsouth. We had a solid off-season; shored up our lines, & HOPEFULLY got better at linebacker with the young ones (and Barton); got what looks to be a very solid centre in Alex Mack (whom I pimped prior to the draft BTW). I also hope Jamal Lewis has at least one year left in the tank, he apparently played with a bum wheel last season. It also appears that we have improved our secondary, but well see (couldn't get much worse but the 2008 defence is not all on the DBs). I don't know if Braylon will be "playing for a new contract" and because of that suddenly will have a great year. I think his eagerness to be a star is what drives him, maybe as much as money. He has a lot to prove and we need him to deliver. Catch the ball, Braylon! One of the big question marks is BQ; will he be a good-to-very good QB in his first year as a starter? (assuming he will actually be the starter and that ain't a done deal, either.... no matter what anyone thinks). Tight end is also iffy but it seems like we got some grunts to play TE. Losing KW2's 80 catches isn't good, but maybe the TE's can make up for it with smart, consistent play and a team-first mentality. The 2007 revamped O-line was tremendous, they gelled quickly and here's praying we get the same luck this season. We shoudl be smarter and more cohesive, I like Mangini and good to know the country club atmosphere is over. Remember Jamal saying something like that in 2008? "I've never seen anything like it" regarding the attitudes and unprofessionalism that was prevalent in the Bowns locker room. Those days are over. The Steelsrs should still be good but they've had a horseshoe up their asses for awhile now... we'll win at elast one against them this season, maybe sweep 'em. The Ravens aren't gonna be as good IMO, they lost what's-his-face (the LB) and double-murdering Ray Ray ain't getting any younger. The Bengals should be better, I will say that. I think we can contend for a wildcard, maybe even the division title if we get some breaks. Edit: yeah I forgot to add: 11-5, Super Bowl. ... it, why not?
Last edited by lampdogg; 08/01/09 12:37 PM.
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The thing is...are we a real 8-8 team then? Did we play hard and play with consistancy? Did we stay in the games and play till the end? Then if we fall into 8-8....we could be in a playoff hunt and my optomisim would be found true and growing even more going into the next year. In our 9-7 playoff year....WE WAS SOOOOO LUCKY!!! We was as inconsistant of a team to win 9 games that i had seen. We had ZERO depth and little to know REAL playmakers. Plain and simple we were LUCKY....we was a 5 to 6 win team without the stars aligning. Our 10 win season year before last....we caught some teams by surprise early in the year and we coasted late, our O struggled and we couldn't beat a WEAK Bengal team to make the playoffs. We still had no depth but did have some O firepower that fizzled behind a D that lacked playmakers and consistancy. we played like a 7 or 8 win team but won 10. This year we have real depth on both sides of the ball and some playmakers on both sides as well. We have a EXPEREIENCED head coach (for the first time) that just might game plan for a change...something we have lacked unargueably.  It just gives ME for the first time something that resembles a good (not great yet) football team on paper. WE have NEVER had that. Depth and coaching probably is the roots to my optomisim. Consistancy will be the key. They still have to play the game though....THEN we will all know the truth. Just a little note though....i totally disagree with your take on the Center to right on this years line being weaker than the 07 year. Mack would have to bust to not be a HUGE upgrade over Fraley and Mckinney would be the ONLY wash imo. Shaffer on the right????? Foster or Porkchop either one to me is at the least a upgrade to him. PLUS...we have depth...07 had NONE!!!! Agree to dissagree i guess!
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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It's good to know you're on board with Mangini, Ammo. Didn't you want Cowher or someone else prior to Mangini's hiring, or were you on-board with him all the time?
I wanted Cowher but am willing to give Mangini a chance. If we're 6-10 or 7-9 but competitive in games (including a split with Pitt) I'll be happy.
Go Browns!
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Quote:
It's good to know you're on board with Mangini, Ammo. Didn't you want Cowher or someone else prior to Mangini's hiring, or were you on-board with him all the time?
I wanted Cowher but am willing to give Mangini a chance. If we're 6-10 or 7-9 but competitive in games (including a split with Pitt) I'll be happy.
I wanted Cowher or McDaniels.
Now after sitting back and assessing the situation, Mangini was clearly best. Cowher might have been to create buzz and steal away Steelers FO and coaches, but I don't think there's been a better offseason hire than Mangini in the NFL.
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Great post. I've always given first-year coaches a honeymoon. One of my favorite years of a first-time HC turning it around was Belichick in his first year. He took a team that had given up a Franchise-record 462 points on the season--even worse than the '99 (437 pts) and '00 (419 pts) teams--and had them in the playoff hunt in Week 14. They were 6-7 before losing to Houston in the snow and Stover shanking one from 19 yards out. Belichick had the team a playoff contender by '94 but the league and Steelers were tougher by then. BB's first year--I was in 2nd grade, and yes, I remember it fairly well--was fun because we were competitive and only got blown out in ONE of the 16 games (42-17 against 14-2 Washington). And that game was 21-17 as late as the third quarter!  Palmer was not a good coach but he had the best record against the Stools since the return (2-2). Some of his players he drafted flourished under Butch in '01 and '02. (The John Cooper effect--Tressel won the title with Cooper's players). He was 2-1 before Couch had a thumb injury. The Browns actually had a good offense after three games in the season, and then the bottom fell out. I loved Butch's first year even moreso than the playoff year. We had less talent in '01 but he had us at 6-4 before collapsing at 7-9. Ben Gay the Ravens killer, Jamel White slashing and dashing, Jamir Miller at LB/DE and Anthony Henry with ten (10)!!! picks and so on and so forth. It was also my senior year in HS, another great year, but that's another story. RAC's first year at 6-10 was competitive--we were an alright 3-5 at the halfway point with a few close losses to Detroit and Houston--but it was a pain because you had TWO 11-5 teams in the division that year (Cincinnati and Pittsburgh). Two wins against Cinci at the Stadium and the Rats away would have put us at 8-8. But Pitt was the real division winner, and would eventually win it all. At least we beat Balt to finish the season. As for Mangini--as I've said, I'd be happy if we were 6-10 or 7-9 and in the playoff hunt up to week 17. I'm not saying we're going to make the playoffs, but if you want to go basketball, think of the '03-04 Cavs. LeBron and a bunch of nobodies wound up in the 9th seed in the Eastern Conference at 35-47, one year removed from 17-65. Those early LeBron teams played hard but lost a lot of close games due to lack of talent. I'm willing to give EM a chance.
Last edited by AsianDawg; 08/01/09 02:10 PM.
Go Browns!
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Just be pleased as punch that McDaniels is NOT a Brown. He's too young (only 32) and he mishandled the Cutler thing IMO. Cutler gives the Bears a great arm, but they still need WRs.
I have Donks friends--yes, don't shoot me--that are NOT excited about the season. Denver isn't that great--they actually lost to KC and Oak. last year. But I think Oak. will surprise people with their D. KC will go 5-11, still crappy, but they will be competitive. I see Denver regressing and SD still winning the AFC West, but the Raiders will be in 2nd and Denver in 3rd place.
Go Browns!
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Quote:
Just a little note though....i totally disagree with your take on the Center to right on this years line being weaker than the 07 year. Mack would have to bust to not be a HUGE upgrade over Fraley and Mckinney would be the ONLY wash imo. Shaffer on the right????? Foster or Porkchop either one to me is at the least a upgrade to him. PLUS...we have depth...07 had NONE!!!!
Fraley, his first year here, was a good player. Good enough to warrant a contract extention. He came in and within like two weeks was good enough to be a legitimate NFL starting center. Seth McKinney was worse than Fraley, that's for sure. You haven't seen Alex Mack play against NFL comeptition yet anyway, how do we know he's better than Fraley two years ago........ While I haven't seen him, I'm just not calling it a sure thing at all.
Just as this Porkchop and Foster and St.Clair are players I haven't really seen play before either. All I know is that their teams had no problems letting them go and most FA linemen suck ALA Cosey Coleman and that guy from the Chargers that sucked.
And what depth do we have on offense at any playmaker position. Braylond Edwards and who? Is Jamal Lewis really going to still be capable of producing as a number 1 ALA the way he did in 2007.
Yeah, we have depth on hte line but not at receiver, we have question marks at RB. And that's without even bringing up the QB
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The depth at QB is we have 2 qbs that have starting quality and one pro bowl. Ratliff is lights out better than Dorsey.....heck...i am better than Dorsey.  WR? We signed Furrey and Patton.....who add GREAT depth and two 2nd rounders with loads of talent and we still have Steptoe and Cribbs. We basicly lost Stallworth and Wilson and gained Furrey, Patten and 2 high draft picks. IMO....better on paper than we have had in years. Reason for optomisim.....especially if one or more rooks contribute. I never saw depth a problem at RB. WE didn't have a STUD behind Lewis but we were solid. Harrison i thought was under utilized. IF...that is a big IF Davis pans out to be as advertised before he split time last year and dropped his draft stock (could be a steal)....this position COULD be a strength after this year. IMO....depth dosent meen you have to have studs backing studs. It meens if you have to bring in someone for any reason...you dont have a "huge" drop off in production. You might in some cases have more of a drop off than in other positions but your trying not to go from Fraley to ?. Now you have Mack to Fraley or vice versa. Stallworth or Braylon to Steptoe last year....this year it would fall back to Furrey, Patten or 2 high draft picks. I could go on and on as to what i am seeing happen this year compared to years past. I guess its just a matter of seeing things differently. 
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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In 2007, Tim Carter was our 3rd wideout.
In 2008 Syndric Steptoe was our 3rd wideout (and sometimes the 2nd wideout)
In 2009 our 3rd wideout is either Furrey or Massaquoi. One is a 1000 yard receiver and another is a high draft pick. Then again, so was Tim Carter.
The key is INSURANCE. This team may not have great top-end talent, but it's LOADED with insurance.
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10-4 Ammo. We have quality depth at most posiitons....something we have not had since rebirth. It gives me anyway.....for the first time....room for optomisim. It might not translate to squat!!!! It just gives me reason for hope like never before.
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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So much of our season is going to be defined by the fact that we're part of the AFC North. Right now the AFC North may be the toughest division in the AFC.
The Steelers have proven they are one of the top three teams in the AFC year after year. The Ravens have a smothering defense and may finally have an offense. The bumbling Bengals have a top notch QB and a rapidly improving defense.
Compare that to the AFC West with the Broncos, Raiders, Chargers, and Chiefs. If the Browns played in that division I'd be expecting to win the division. but we don't.
I expect the 2009 Browns to FEAST off a very weak schedule fueled by a HC with a chip on his shoulder. His discipline will result in better performance and (deep breath) finally .... CONSISTANCY.
Still it will come down to division games. If the Browns want to sniff the playoffs they will have to split with both the Steelers and Ravens or beat the Ravens twice.
I got laughed at when I called for the Browns to win 9-10 games in 2007. Then I everyone got mad at be when I said 2008 was going to be brutal. Now I'm calling for a good year in 2009. But it will all come down to the division games.
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If you think the Browns are anything more than POTENTIALLY! a .500 team this year you are deluding yourself.
My Doctors recommendation...prepare for a 4-8 win season.....then when the team wins between 4-8 games (which they will) you won't feel nearly as bad as when you think over-optimistically.
We're just not very talented right now. Thems the breaks.
We have a great LT. That's a blessing.
We have a great special teams returner, kicker and long snapper. Which is nice
Then we have very talented ??? in Edwards and Rogers.
And we have a guy who can manage a game in Quinn.
But man oh man that's about it guys.
And a lot of other bad teams will know that they outman us when they play us.
We're running a 3-4 defense. You HAVE TO have a great linebacking unit to really succeed and we don't. We have a guy in Pool that I really like athletically but do I trust him not to get a ball thrown over his head? No.
We have kids at CB, no other difference makers on the DL, and a gaping problem at WR2 and RT.
I'm glad we have two quarterbacks because they'll both be hurt at some point. Neither St. Clair or Foster can handle a decent speed rusher over there. Both are much worse than Shaffer at pass protection.
There are very few dynamic players on our team. And because of that offenses and defenses can account for them easily.
We're just not that good or talented right now and that's not going to change significantly for about 3 years or so if we do things right, let alone if we continue to screw things up.
If you want to get yourself all worked up and think that the Browns might just be able to make the playoffs in 2009, well you're going to have a pretty bad hangover come Thansgiving.
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Held, would you have said that after 2007?
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I didn't gulp the cool aid but I was pretty positive after 2007 if I remember right. I knew that DA was awful even though he made the pro bowl. I'd say I was in the bottom 1/3rd of optimism on this board but I expected us to do well in some areas.
In those areas I was proved wrong and most of my pessimistic thoughts were proved right.
I feel like I can spot a good team. I still haven't seen one yet like the teams of the 80s.
A good team can play a bad team, know that they're going to put a whoopin on them, and then do it.
It's been about two decades since I felt like that before a game.
And it's all about talent.
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Bungs D was ranked 12th or 13th, although that could be because their O was putrid and teams didn't need to throw much on them. That being said, Rivers and Rey Rey will be good for them as will their secondary. It will be hard to throw on them this year.
Go Browns!
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I'll be honest, I don't think the receiving corps or the right tackle spot or even QB is the biggest question mark on the offense... to me it's Jamal Lewis. What are we going to get from him? Even if our line does dominate is he going to be quick enough to get through holes, get yards after contact, and be a workhorse for us for a whole season, or even for a whole game? I mean I just don't see much tread left on the tires for him and see it being his last year as a starter in the NFL. He's too worn down and doesn't have anywhere near the juice he used to. I'm realy skeptical of him to be honest but I hope my gut feeling on him is wrong and he does well because that I feel is one of THE biggest keys to our offensive success in controlling the clock and grinding out WINS this year...
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
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And even though the '80s teams were good, they weren't great. They were in the AFC, which was the JV conference. A lot of Browns fans tend to overrate those teams. In the NFC they'd be a 3 or 4 seed ('85-89 LA Rams, '87-90 NO Saints, '86-90 Vikings or even the '88-90 Eagles). Not bad, but not the 1 or 2 seeds like the '85-90 49ers, the '85-90 Giants, the Redskins and the Bears of that era.
Heck, we couldn't even get by Denver. As much as I loved the '80s Browns, in today's equivalency they'd be the '03-present Philadelphia Eagles without the Super Bowl appearance that one year. Very good but not Super.
Go Browns!
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Quote:
I'll be honest, I don't think the receiving corps or the right tackle spot or even QB is the biggest question mark on the offense... to me it's Jamal Lewis. What are we going to get from him? Even if our line does dominate is he going to be quick enough to get through holes, get yards after contact, and be a workhorse for us for a whole season, or even for a whole game? I mean I just don't see much tread left on the tires for him and see it being his last year as a starter in the NFL. He's too worn down and doesn't have anywhere near the juice he used to. I'm realy skeptical of him to be honest but I hope my gut feeling on him is wrong and he does well because that I feel is one of THE biggest keys to our offensive success in controlling the clock and grinding out WINS this year...
I think Jamal's gonna be just fine. I think he wants to end his career with a bang.
Plus, the OL is built to run block. With Thomas, a beefier Steinbach, Mack, Tucker and Womack/St. Clair/Foster the line should be punishing opposing front sevens.
I'm more concerned about receiver (all potential beyond Braylon) and linebacker (all potential as well). I think we're just fine at DB. It wasn't Wright and McDonald that killed us last year in the passing game so much as it was Jones and Cousins (and whoever else played behind him who wasn't any better).
I'm comfortable with Wright, McDonald and Hood as our starting corners (I consider the nickel a starter since he plays so often). I feel good about our DL and I feel good about our OL.
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It sounds like there were a lot at TC even on Day 1. I wouldn't be surprised to see the preseason games bring in 40,000 or 50,000. Everyone's hungry for the season to start.
Go Browns!
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Quote:
I may be called crazy but I have high hopes for the 2009 Cleveland Browns.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 180
1st String
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1st String
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 180 |
Enough cannot be said about the coaching. We like to look at the players and point out what they can and cannot do, but a good coach can overcome a lot of deficiencies in talent. It's remarkable what a head coach must manage - a team of 45 players (plus practice squad and injury replacements), 15 coaches, scouts and other resources throughout the season. The leadership required to provide direction, and make sure the team is going in that direction, is HUGE. Successful head coaches are rare: think of all the coaches who have failed, and on top of that think of all the coaches who have failed miserably. All of this leads me to be impressed by Mangini. He has clearly taken charge of the organization and is providing strong leadership. There is no doubt about who is in charge. He is experienced and has been successful. He made mistakes with the Jets, but he has admitted several of them--and has made efforts to avoid these mistakes in the future. On top of an experienced head coach, the team has an experienced defensive coordinator who also achieved success before arriving. People predicting less than 6 wins are overlooking the obvious. The team has more talent than last season--and would probably win 6 games with Crennel as the head coach. Mangini is worth at least 2 more wins, so put us at 8-8 (at a minimum), as long as we see a reasonably healthy season. You can talk all you want about the talent and individual strengths and weaknesses of each player, but it's the coaching, folks! And the Cleveland Browns finally has it.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
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I have another method I'd like to share on "previewing" the season. It's a standard business bracketing method used for many different evaluations but I'm applying it to the Browns schedule.
Generally, the road to the playoffs is " a game over .500" though that may not be the case in the AFCN this year. Still, I like the Browns chances to get over .500.
Looking at the schedule in two week increments I set the goal to be "win one game every two weeks". Here's what we face:
Vikings
Broncos
Ravens
Bengals
Bills
Steelers
Packers
Bears
Ravens
Lions
Bengals
Chargers
Steelers
Chiefs
Raiders
Jags
If you look at it you'll notice that we play either a mediocre or a bad team every two weeks. If we can't pull it off against the Vikings we should at least be able to beat the Broncos. If we lose to the Steelers we get it back against the Chiefs, and so on.
Plus we finish the season against three teams that will be out of the hunt: Chiefs, Raiders, Jaguars. The toughest two week stretch we face is likely Bills/Steelers.
I don't know that 9-7 will get us into the playoffs due to the fact that everyone in the AFCN is going to clobber the AFCW but it should at least be a fun season.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 786 Likes: 5
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 786 Likes: 5 |
Quote:
If you think the Browns are anything more than POTENTIALLY! a .500 team this year you are deluding yourself.
You could have said that to the Dolphins and the Falcons last year. Before last year people said they didn't have the talent to compete. Now all of a sudden you dont hear those things.
We have as much or more talent than the Fins last year or the Falcons. The one thing than intriques me is coaching and finally depth. If we have a some rooks come along faster than usual and the team gels with some actual COACHING.....we have a chance to maybe be in the wildcard chase toward the end of the year.
Thats all most on here feel.
That gives us the most hope we have had since rebirth...IMO
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
The NFL is a very fickle beast...when it comes to predictions, I always say that it's best to give around two or three games leeway...i.e. if you think a team is a .500 squad, they could go anywhere from 6-10 to 10-6...
Between injuries and streaks/slumps, last second FG's, etc. ...you never know.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 786 Likes: 5
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
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Agreed.... I feel we are a 6-9 win team that on paper gives me reason (as i have stated) for real optomisim. If we gel and play with consistancy i feel this coaching staff can give us some stability that we can build on. I feel things are changing and we have room for hope....not that we are contending for a title yet. IMO...BIG difference!!!
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Vikings - Loss, too much AP and possibly the best DL in the entire NFL.
@Broncos - Win, horrible defense with no pass rush and Kyle Orton at QB.
@Ravens - Loss, it will be a close game but I just don't see us winning on their turf.
Bengals - Win, They lost TJ and signed Coles but he is old and their is a reason why he was released.
@Bills - Win, Didn't we beat these guys in Buffalo last year? Stoping TO and Lee evans will be hard but they traded away their best O-linemen.
@Steelers - Loss, Just don't see it happening.
Packers - Win, they're adjusting to the 3-4 and I don't think they have the right pieces yet.
@Bears - Win, Who do they have at WR?
Ravens - Win, again it will be a close game.
@Lions - Win, this team is garbage and that's saying it nicely.
@Bengals - Loss, The bengals are trying to make a serious playoff push and really need this game.
Chargers - Loss, depends on what happens with LT this year.
Steelers - Win, bold prediction and I think Mangini makes a statement to the rest of the NFL with this win
@Chiefs - Win, another garbage team that should have drafted Aaron Curry.
Raiders - Loss, I see a slip up here because I think their defense will surprise a lot of teams.
Jags - Win, No pass rush and I have no idea who they have at WR
Record = 10-6, Wild Card
However that is me being optimistic. I don't see the browns losing 10 games with that schedule.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Just curious....For anyone not just you.....
IMO if I were setting the line on the Vikings Browns Game 1, I'd put it at about 6 in favor of Minny.
To go further I'd say outcome probability is:
Minnesota by 14+: 20%
Minnesota by 7-13: 25%
Minnesota by <7: 25%
Cleveland by <7: 20%
Cleveland by 7-13: 7%
Cleveland by 14+: 3%
So let's say Minnesota runs it down our throat and stops the run on our side like I fully expect to happen. Let's say their completely erratic QB, Tarvaris Jackson, gets hot, which probably won't happen but it could.
We have a pretty decent chance of getting blown out game 1.
What happens to all the people who think we're a +.500 team?
They're going to be furious.
And it has a real chance of happening. About as good a chance as us actually winning that game.
My whole point in all of this is that everyone needs to manage their expectations. It's great to be positive and there are valid reasons where we could, COULD do pretty well this year. But an accurate over/under on wins this year is probably 6.5 if I set that line, and I'm definitely taking into account our weak schedule.
Root for us to do well but don't set an unrealistic expectation of success.
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Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Just curious....For anyone not just you.....
IMO if I were setting the line on the Vikings Browns Game 1, I'd put it at about 6 in favor of Minny.
To go further I'd say outcome probability is:
Minnesota by 14+: 20%
Minnesota by 7-13: 25%
Minnesota by <7: 25%
Cleveland by <7: 20%
Cleveland by 7-13: 7%
Cleveland by 14+: 3%
So let's say Minnesota runs it down our throat and stops the run on our side like I fully expect to happen. Let's say their completely erratic QB, Tarvaris Jackson, gets hot, which probably won't happen but it could.
We have a pretty decent chance of getting blown out game 1.
What happens to all the people who think we're a +.500 team?
They're going to be furious.
And it has a real chance of happening. About as good a chance as us actually winning that game.
My whole point in all of this is that everyone needs to manage their expectations. It's great to be positive and there are valid reasons where we could, COULD do pretty well this year. But an accurate over/under on wins this year is probably 6.5 if I set that line, and I'm definitely taking into account our weak schedule.
Root for us to do well but don't set an unrealistic expectation of success.
Who says we won't be able to throw on the Vikings? IIRC their pass D is suspect.
Who says the fact that Tavaris Jackson/Sage Rosenfels both SUCK won't severely handcuff their offense?
What about the fact that the Vikings played every game close to the vest last year because quite frankly, their coach isn't very good?
I'll agree matchup-wise, we don't matchup well, but the Vikes are a Jekyll and Hyde team if I've ever seen one.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165 |
Quote:
Just curious....For anyone not just you.....
IMO if I were setting the line on the Vikings Browns Game 1, I'd put it at about 6 in favor of Minny.
I don't think that is off base at all to favor the Viking by 6, but let's be fair. There is NOTHING from the Vikings offense to be scared about except AP. Bad QB, boring play calling, no TE threat, no WR stud.
Then defensively I admit, I doubt we run up the gut a lot on the vikings D. But what part of their secondary scares you? Even getting JH to the edge may be effective.
IMO it comes down to "Can our passing game outscore AP's running game?"
The idea that one of their QB's getting "hot" probably even sounds like a reach to Vikings fans.
We aren't the favorite but we have a decent chance to win the game.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 647
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 647 |
Post deleted by Referee 3
Go Browns!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,648 Likes: 207
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,648 Likes: 207 |
I don't get into predicting the future, so I will look at the past and try and draw some conclusions as to how the season will turn out.
First is that my premise is that in the NFL, going into the season, most can pick the 8 teams that will win more than 10, the 8 will lose more than 10, but there are 16 others are somewhere between 10 and 6 and 6 and 10 depending on injuries (more losses) and players emerging (more wins). So we don't have a clue about half of the league. The Browns were one of the 16 last year, when Quinn and Anderson went down, they became an obvious loser. Same with Cincy.
I think the QB situation will work itself out. Personally, I am hoping for Quinn, but that is because I value accuracy and game management over arm. Either way I can deal with it.
I hope they play Harrison more. Lewis appeard to be slower last year. I would have preferred a RB in the draft as part of round 2.
I think the WR's will resolve themselves and I look for Furrey to make more of an impact than might have been expected. I liked the signing. I think Robo will do fine. I don't like all the negative speculation that has been tossed at him, Browns fans are fickled by their knowledge of OSU football. Out west, we just thought he was a very good player.
The OL will be patched together and will be respectable. It will be better than last year. I am curious about the new addition of StClair, Pork Chop and Foster. Mack will start day 1.
I wish the Browns had done more to address the K2 Loss, maybe they have Rucker pinned to take over. I like Heiden, and was confused by the Royal pick up.
The D..... the same old song. The Browns have to improve a stopping the run and getting pressure on the QB. I don't know what to make of this. I felt the Browns biggest need was to address the DL and Pass Rush.
At LB, I look for Hall to start and Veikune will have a significant role by the end of the season. I have no clue as to how Barton and Bowens will turn out. I need to see some games.
The secondary looks improved. I like the pick ups and would not be surprised to see one of the "name" pick-ups not make the team. It is really crowded back there.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,281
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,281 |
Quote:
A good team can play a bad team, know that they're going to put a whoopin on them, and then do it.
This is pretty much how I feel about pro sports in general, but most specifically, the NFL..
Actually, I think some teams have the goods, but they don't have the swagger.. When you have both, you truly become a THREAT to do damage...
Unfortunately I agree with most of your take, Held.. We just don't have enough playmakers and/or gamechangers on either side of the ball..
That said, I am VERY interested in watching Rob Ryan run this defense...
I heart winning
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
Vikings - Loss, too much AP and possibly the best DL in the entire NFL.
Let's not forget that both William's are going to miss week1 making their DL not so formidable along with their swiss cheese pass defense...I know it was in courts, but I thought the suspension was upheld, is that right?
#gmstrong
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,333 Likes: 235
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
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Quote:
Quote:
Vikings - Loss, too much AP and possibly the best DL in the entire NFL.
Let's not forget that both William's are going to miss week1 making their DL not so formidable along with their swiss cheese pass defense...I know it was in courts, but I thought the suspension was upheld, is that right?
Pretty sure both of them will be playing in week 1:
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Saturday, Aug. 1, 2009 - 11:43 p.m. ET
Related Links
* Team wants duo to push each other
* Split decision: Vikes' receivers speak
MANKATO, Minn. — Five burning questions for the Vikings, whose 13-day stay here at Minnesota State University will be one of the shortest training camps in NFL history:
1. Who will start at quarterback?
Tarvaris Jackson is familiar with the offense; Sage Rosenfels has more NFL experience. Those are their edges. Now, there's an X factor. Jackson's injury—he apparently suffered a sprained MCL in his left knee Saturday and will be temporarily sidelined—gives Rosenfels an unexpected opportunity. Jackson and Rosenfels had alternated working with the No. 1 offense, but Rosenfels will get the majority of the work while Jackson is sidelined. Rosenfels could surge ahead—or become a bigger question mark—in the competition for the starting job.
2. What roles will Percy Harvin play?
It's difficult enough for a receiver to come into the NFL and make an immediate impact. That challenge becomes even steeper when the player isn't on the field. The Vikings had high aspirations for the former University of Florida star—as a receiver, runner and returner—but the first-round pick remains unsigned, and for every practice and meeting he misses, he falls that much farther behind.
3. How well will John Sullivan fill the vacancy at center?
It has been a long time since someone not named Matt Birk started at center for Minnesota. But with Birk having moved on to Baltimore in the offseason, Sullivan, a second-year player from Notre Dame, is stepping in. In fact, Sullivan may be better prepared for the position than Birk was, when he followed Jeff Christy in 1999. Until then, Birk never had played center. Sullivan's first true test under fire will come against Shaun Rogers, the Browns' premier defensive tackle. Sullivan should be well prepared, since he goes against the Williams Wall—Vikings tackles Pat Williams and Kevin Williams—daily.
4. What happens if the Williams Wall collapses early?
There's a possibility the Williamses could be suspended, possibly for the first four games of the season, over the StarCaps issue—a violation of the league's substance-abuse policy. Asked about the situation, coach Brad Childress quickly reminded a reporter of how well Fred Evans filled in at tackle when Pat Williams suffered a shoulder injury last year. Childress also complimented the play of backup Jimmy Kennedy. If Childress is worried about losing the Williamses, he's not showing it.
5. Can Tyrell Johnson replace Darren Sharper at strong safety?
Those with short-term memories may have forgotten that Johnson started the first seven games at free safety last year as a rookie after Madieu Williams suffered a neck injury during the preseason. "He'll strike you, he can play down in the box, and he can cover deep," Childress said of Johnson.
This story appears in August 3's edition of Sporting News Today. If you are not receiving Sporting News Today, the only daily digital sports newspaper, sign up today.
Senior writer Dennis Dillon covers the NFL for Sporting News. E-mail him at ddillon@sportingnews.com.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
with our luck, you are probably right...just check around and the case is still pending and no decision has been brought forward.
NFL won the early legal battles, Players won the latest in Minnesota state court, but the NFL is appealing and at least a few legal sites like the NFL's chances of winning.
#gmstrong
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Just a little reminder to temper expectations. BUMP!
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Posts: 2,877 |
From today's game it appears my assumption that they could possibly win 7 games may be WAY optimistic.......... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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