DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum the qb battle

That's probably an even money bet.

safe bet. if quinn wins, they're not letting him hit the escalators.

Anyone know the last year the Browns opening day starter finished the season intact?

It's got to be late 80's/early 90's.

Asian, get on that...and when you tell me, wrap it in a metaphor about life.

Couch started all 16 games in 2001.

So he did. Thanks.

Yeah, if he didn't make it through an entire season I wasn't about to go digging to find out who it was.

QUINN!!! QUINNN!!! QUINNNN!!! QUINNNN!!!

I'm telling you all now.. we will win atleast two games w/ Quinn as a starter...

Who wants to take the bet?

I've said it for months.... if the two QBs are remotely close, you let Brady start the season, just to quell the firestorm and see what we have in a guy that we invested heavily in.

If he stinks - and he deserves at least 8-10 games if not an entire season - fans will understand should Mangini turn to DA. Not that the FO should do everything to appease the fans, but common sense tells me that BQ should start... IF they are close to being even.

Good post, as in I agree %100, to the point I think the Kid should have been "there" from Day One.

that and why should Mangini quell the firestorm because fans want Quinn in there.


What Mangini really needs to do is pick a leader/winner. Then he needs Daboll to adjust the offense to fit his guy. Anderson is a Favre-esque guy who will sling it all over and throw things where they dont belong, and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. Fine by me...Anderson can do that...but Daboll needs to call the offense that way.

Quinn is a guy who plays like Kellen Clemens/Chad Pennington (minus the noodle arm). He's a guy that takes what the defense gives him, and makes calculated efforts to succeed. Thats fine by me too, but when we pick a winner, Daboll has to tailor the offense that way.

I think Mangini and Daboll need to evaluate the rest of the personnel on the football team and decide what style they should play, and what would be the most effective.

I really think this QB competition is unnecessary. Our QB should fit the system that Mangini should want to run, and he should go with it, and the other guy should be shopped around, because he wont fit the system.

From what I've seen from Mangini, Quinn fits his system. When Brett Favre was healthy and playing Mangini ball they were 8-3. When Favre hurt his arm, for some reason he also wanted to play Favre ball, and we remember the rest.

Mangini-ball sounds like Quinn ball, and Favre ball sounds like Anderson ball...and I feel like Anderson ball just doesnt match.

Its nothing againt him, and i like Anderson and I'd love for him to succeed here, but Mangini isnt the right coach for him I dont think. As evidenced by what we saw in game 1.


If you ask me...Quinn should get the start next game...and should get the first 2 series'. If he chumps it up fine...let An derson have his chance in practice. But Quinn moved the ball, and didnt look bad, let him be the starter.

Lets make a move NOW.

In addition, we all saw what happened last preseason when we didn't give our team a chance to gel together. DA went out with an injury, BE went out with an injury, and we just kind of fell apart.

I'd really like to give our 1s a few weeks together to really get to know each other on the field. I have to think we'd be a lot more successful when our guys can pick up each other's cues and predict movements.

j/c

After watching the game for the third time, I'm not surprised with the overall feeling of "dread" at the QB position. But that's because the whole game left a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

However, if I had to grade the performance of both QBs:

Quinn:
- Most passes on target.
- Avoided pressure from left side by moving and throwing to hot-read Royal on one play.
- Nice zip to Furrey and Cribbs on 2 occasions.
- Perfect strike to BE in endzone.
- Led offense down field twice to put them in scoring position.

If Dawson hit's his FG and BE catches the pass right in his hands, BQ would have gotten a SOLID "A" for his 10-pt performance in 2 drives. But as it stands, Dawson missed the second attempt and BE dropped the pass. My sneaking suspicion is that BQ wanted to go right back to BE to let him redeem himself. That ended up being a poor decision...even if he was trying to help a team mate. And because of that, i'll give him a "B".

He made one bad decision in 2 drives. Not too bad. Or, at least, not as bad as the overall "team-stunk" impression many were left with.

Anderson:
He gets an incomplete. You can't truly judge a performance on 6 snaps. His interception, regardless of getting hit while throwing it, was going to be in double coverage anyway. That was a bit concerning.

Just like many others, I'd like to see Anderson get a few more reps with the first team. But if the season started today, I'd feel comfortable with BQ.

Chad Pennington (with the noodle arm) had a great year with Miami last year. He put up almost 3700 yards on 67% completions ..... and he took shots down the field. His 7.2 yards/attempt was the highest of his career as a starter. While he was in a more controlled passing game, he did have explosive plays in his arsenel. Of his 324 completions 38 went for 20+, and 8 went for 40+.

I'd be mroe than happy if Quinn could do that .... you know .... minus the noodle arm and all .......

Quinn made 2 bad decisions....

I believe it was his first pass of the game where he got pressure right up the gut and tried to throw it away (towards the back)...only problem was that the defender was facing him and should have caught the ball for an INT.


overall, it still wasn't a bad outing for Quinn, but that play is seemingly getting forgotten.

His first pass of the game was a bullet to Furrey for a first down.

That play you are talking about, he did get lucky but the other side of the coin is that he was throwing the ball away to avoid the sack....which he did. One bad and one good decision on the same play kinda cancel each other in my book.

Just like we can't forgive him for the INT he did throw, we also can't complain about the INT he didn't throw.

I think yesterday evened this whole mess out, giving the slight edge to Anderson because of the points on the board AND the constant movement of the team.

The two minute drill i'll forgive because I think he was already done for the day and that his rhythm wasnt there anymore. You could tell he looked different from the start to that drive and I think that it wouldnt have been that way had he been in straight through.


My take on the QB battle right now is that DA is the Qaurterback I want to see playing for the Browns. The Snow slide sold me back in 07 and I havent really wavered. There were a few times last year where I thought, yikes, he has to go because that concussion just ruined him. But I never thought he would be bad, but I think his struggles were directly linked to the concussion. (a comparable situation: Buffalo 5-1 before Trent Edwards gets a concussion, and they end up 7-9...Yet no one got on him about struggling and saying he was washed up and never gonna be good)

Looking at Derek Anderson...his struggles last year were based on 2 things. 1 a concussion that derailed his season and 2 the wrong system for him.

If you want a short throwing intermediate route hitting guy, or a guy that will just manage the offense and slowly move the ball down the field. Sure...you want anyone but Derek Anderson.

But what Derek Anderson brings is the ability to hit the deep ball consistently. think Culpepper in 98. Think Peyton to Wayne when Harrison was healthy. Thats the game Derek can play, and if you tailor the playbook to fit that, youre going to have a great QB.

Yes Derek will make some maddening decisions, but the guy is still relatively inexperienced...hes only started 20-25 games. Which by NFL standards is not very many. They said for Eli Manning its about 40 starts when an NFLer really starts to get it. Thats 2 full seasons and a little of a 3rd. And thats where Anderson will be in about 15 games this year...which is perfect, cuz he'll get it going into the playoffs.


Quinn...My take on him isnt bad. I think he is a very good QB...but his style is to "take what the defense gives you". While that has sounded like an indictment to some, its very good. He will pick you apart wherever you leave an opening and thats great. But what it leads to is long sustained drives that keeps your defense off the field...and thats great, but it also needs a solid running game to back it up. He is not a QB that can put an offense on his shoulders for any amount of time. He can work within an offense and be great. but he isnt the offense.

Anderson can be the offense. Which is why I like him more.

I'm not going to give him the edge, because this battle has been maddeningly even. But these 2 play so dissimilar that Mangini should just look at the two games, and see the style he ran v. GB and the style he ran v. GB and pick which he prefers and go with a winner that way.

Its so close because theyre so different. And I think theyre both equal in running whats been run so far. A Vanilla, simple offense designed to separate two QBs...but it hasnt because they both do their own thing so well, that they have to run separate styles.

If you go with Anderson your offense will get more possessions, theyll be more likely to come back or build up a quick lead, or respond quickly. But they wont really be able to grind it out and maintain a 15 play drive (yet).

If you go with Quinn...if you get down 2 tds...it could be trouble. but if you get a 2 possession lead. say good night (providing our run game is good).


IDK why this is so much of a battle. Mangini needs to pick a style that he likes, be it Anderson's or Quinn's and go for it.

I'm pulling for DA...because while he makes mistakes being DA, he is still DA and can be good.



One last thing. If we go with Quinn. I think we can keep Anderson.

If we go with Anderson, I really dont think we can keep Quinn. Because his presence will be too distracting, for him and from the fans. If we go with Anderson, we have to move Quinn, and really...Minnesota would be the best place. Add Tarvaris and maybe a pick or as has been stated a RB...Quinn for Jackson and a late rounder would be great I think. Because They'll both need a new home, and itll give Minny a QB that can not separate himself in a QB battle v. Sage.

Please do a little bit of research and look at thier body of work.

Anderson has 13 wins under his belt with only 1 of them happening with the browns losing going into the 4th quarter. You need to go back to week 11 of 07 to find a time when he tied a game with our last possesion of regulation. We have been down 2 scores going into the 4th PLENTY of times while he has been QB. That hardly makes him a comeback kid.
By the way, our last final possesion win was BQ against buffalo.

On the other side of the coin DA has only lost 1 game that we have been leading going into the fourth quarter, his last game as a starter. Quinn's loss to denver had us going into the 4th with a 23-13 lead.

How can this be? Everyone knows DA is a laid back guy, there is good and bad to that, when he is even or up he typically does well. But once there is that pressure of being behind late, he crumbles, gets excited and makes mistakes. If we have a team with a sick defense and running game, i'd take Anderson in a heartbeat, but his body of work shows that he does not win games late like you claim.

Did you watch the Detroit game or just read media reports? I just watched the replay on NFL Network this am. BQ did not do much. Da had a few nice throws (to MM and Furrey) but that play where Edwards couldn't stay in bounds wasn't Edwards fault. Reading the media reports I thought it was all BE's fault but actually watching the play myself it would have required an amazing play by BE to catch the ball and stay in bounds. The ball was thrown behind him and took him OOB. The other deep pass that BE caught was a great catch on BE's part. The ball was thrown way behind him and he made a very difficult catch. If thrown where it should have been thrown it would have been a TD.

I will give you that the 2 minute drill was tough given how long he was on the bench. I am torn on the missed pass to Royal. DA did have a lot of pressure on him but it looked like he was shy about getting hit so he didn't step into the throw. But many of his completions were behind the receiver.

Now I have been fairly critical of DA in this post. As I said BQ didn't do much - good or bad. He clearly did not create any seperation but I just don't think DA had that great a game.

I do think a DA run offense appears to be more explosive and has a vertical threat that a BQ offense doesn't seem to have. I am just glad it isn't me making the final decision.

just an observation:

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I will give you that the 2 minute drill was tough given how long he was on the bench.

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I can't buy into that, last week Brady sat and came back in for the two minute drill and should have had a TD after successfully marching down the field.

That's not to take anything away from DA's first drive today. Just proof that the sitting too long excuse is invalid in the way the Coach is dividing up the reps.

DA and BQ both ran 2-minute offenses. They both ended in interceptions. What could've happened is inconsequential.

Sorry, I have no time or use for woulda coulda maybe shoulda opinions. Deal with what they did. DA looked like a starter about 40% of the time. BQ maybe half. Each looks worth with the 2's and 3's (go figure!). I appreciate the Man-Genie's high road thinking about this competition; but I also think our Dude, whoever is declared the champeen, needs to be getting many more reps. Like to see us attacking the whole field. Now are there enuff jugs out there to help BE catch? Any week now. If I were BE, I would tire of knowing the mates had to carry myt over-talented and non- producing hindy each game.

Jester unfortunately I miss the first quarter and only got the last 3 under watch...but, I'm not so much basing my assessment on DA from yesterday, its more from what I've seen in the past.

But, as you stated and I completely agree, we are much more vertical and able to move the ball down the field quicker...and I love that in DA.


iBleed...I suppose I could have clarified better as i didnt much think of 4th quarter comebacks as a basis for my saying that Derek Anderson bring a team back from two scores.

In fact, one of my biggest concerns of Derek is that he isnt much for the last drive win (however, I feel like it didnt help that RAC and company didnt do a very good job putting us in position to win with our last minute drives...i cant count how many boneheaded calls and play calls were made at the end of games where we had a chance to win)

But my basis for saying what i did is that if its the middle of the 2nd Quarter and were down 17-3 or 21-3 or 17-0 or something like that...I 100% believe that we arent out of the game with Anderson. He has that ability to get one or two quick strikes that will get us back in the game.


On the throws to BE yesterday, yea they could have been better (ive seen em now)...but in comparison, look at the throw Bartel left on the field when he had Leggett open...I feel like Anderson wouldve dropped that ball right in there (maybe not exactly on target, but it wouldve been catchable)


What I see from DA, isnt a completely polished guy...but I see a guy who has enough upside to want to play him. With time plays like those BE throws will be more on target. Guys that get used to the speed of the game because they continually start get used to that speed.

Theres a reason that guys like Kelly Holcomb, and Damon Huard, and Todd Collins, and Billy Volek...guys like that that have some talent but never seem to maintain that starter spot is because of the lack of consistency.

It plagued Couch and Holcomb while here, and the reason that we never establish that consistency that Anderson supposedly doesnt have...I dont really think its because he is a bad QB (yea Anderson is a rhythm QB, but its rare that a QB with the right coaches for him can stay out of rhythm for 60 mins) but its because he hasnt had that consistency. Last year was awful because of the concussion and then the short leash. It mustve been impossible for DA to think he was gonna start 16. Just the fact that EVERY mistake was like a condemner and he knew it, and Crennel didnt do a good job at all of saying this is my guy. Savage didnt make it too convincing either as he gave him a modest contract. If you want your guy to be a starter you gotta give him that confidence. It has a big effect. But last year, it wasnt if Quinn would start, it was when. I hated it.


I think with Anderson though...as time passes, you'll see his mistakes go down. As much as we keep saying we need to see what we have in Quinn, i think we just as much need to see what we have in Anderson. Everyone says that we have seen all we'll see in Anderson, but the fact is, he hasnt had a full preseason with the #1s yet...He hasnt started a full season yet...and he still hasnt had the full support of a staff and team yet.

I will state, that I think we'll be good with Quinn as our starter. But I also think we'll be good with Anderson as our starter...the only contingent is that Daboll and Mangini HAVE to...they MUST...name another adjective...they have to tailor the way the offense is run to fit whichever QB they chose's style. They gotta go vertical with Anderson...they cant make him into a dink and dunker...And if they go with Quinn, they gotta manage the ball, run effectively, and take calculated chances deep. We have to want our opponents to stack the box because then whether it works or not we're going to throw over the top to keep you honest. With Quinn we draw em in and then beat em over the top.

Whoever we pick, we better work to their strengths. I personally like Anderson and am rooting for him. I want him to win the QB derby and be our starter for years to come. He embodies the blue-collar Browns mentality i feel. He matches Big Ben's embodiment of Pit and Ray Lewis's embodiment of the Ravens...Anderson just has that Browns feel (the not overly talented looking guy, but gets it done his way and regardless of the way people feel just does his thing, he reminds me of a taller stronger Kosar...like not play style, not smarts, but looks and demeanor)

While Anderson got more reps yesterday, (as Quinn did the week before) I thought one stat was rather telling.

Both QBs completed about 60% of their passes.

Quinn completed 3 of 5 for 29 yards. That's almost 6 yards per attempt.

Anderson went 8-13 for 130 yards, and 10 yards per attempt.

Now there is almost no data to use from the first game as far as Anderson is concerned. He had 2 passes, and neither was very good. Quinn went 7-11 for 68 yards. Nice completion percentage ..... but barely 6 yards per attempt.

In 2 games thus far, Anderson has 15 pass attempts and Quinn has 16. Thus far, IIRC, Anderson now has 3 20+ yard plays, and Quinn has 1.

Both guys have made mistakes and had boneheaded plays. Both guys have had some decent and even some nice plays.

I think this decision is going to come down to game manager vs attacking, down the field passing. The results are so very close for the 2 contenders that this is really about the only difference I can see.

YTown-

I personall couldn't care less about yards per completition, or 20+ yard throws. I want a QB who is going to consistantely move the chains. Even if that means 5 yard throw after 5 yard throw. And I doubt Andersons' ability to do that, because he is always looking for "the big play".

Anderson refuses to take the what defense gives him. Last night, the defense just happened to be giving him a lot, because well... It's Detroit.

I still think if you take away the deep ball, you will see the DA from late 07'-Early 08'.

First and foremost, I am a Browns fan, so I will continue to root for the team regardless of who the starting QB is. But, I will NOT be very happy if that is DA.

It's hard to say what you mean by "Game-Manager"

If you mean, guys who hand the ball off 40 times a game, and doesn't make mistakes then...

Ben Rothlisberger
Eli Manning

But, if you just mean guys who methodically work the ball down the field, without always gunning for the big play...

Tom Brady
Payton Manning

I cant really agree with you on your choices...Peyton will sling it with the best of em...look at how many 20+ yard passes he throws...its a big number. Reggie Wayne does it so well. But the difference is Peyton will check down and thats how Addai and such get their yards, so i suppose you can say that, but Peyton is a slinger. Brady only gets the rep for working it down the field because he has Wes Welker in the slot. He often throws deep for Moss, Gaffney, Davis and those guys when they were there...Eli only recently became a manager since he lost Plax...and thats because no one else can get deep. Eli is a DA QB through and through, just he doesnt have those receivers anymore that can get deep like Plax.

Game managers are like Big Ben, Trent Dilfer, Kellen Clemens, Trent Edwards,

the best QBs in the game chuck it.

Favre, Cutler, Warner and co...even Ben and Peyton and Brady chuck it...

If you cant chuck it, you get relegated to the bench...

I have stated if Quinn gets the nod support him

I do believe however that Anderson gives this team the best chance to win

Mangini is no fool......the first thing ANY coach looks for in their QB is their arm...actually the arm makes 80% of the QB

without a doubt Anderson has the arm to make EVERY throw...no doubt whatsoever....the same can not be said about Quinn

If Quinn was really the better QB he would have beaten Da out by now and he hasn't

The way Mangini spoke of Da and how Daboll was oh so happy with Anderson on the sideline last night laughing with Anderson had his arm around him While Brady Quinn huddled about 20 ft away with his hands across his chest tells me that "right now" the QB job is Anderson's to lose

Me personally had I been Mangini...I would have shipped Quinn and a 4th to Denver for Brandon Marshall and a 3rd and been finished with it

Marshall takes Edwards place when he leaves, and all is well

If Anderson didn't work out, then Mangini could draft his own QB....

actually in Hindsight, Even though I LOVE the Alex Mack pick, I could have understood and been ok if Mangini would have draft Sanchez

Sanchez will be a premier QB in this league....he is very talented....he reminds me a lot of a Matt Hasselbeck type of QB...he can make all the throws, he is smart, and has game time arm, and excellent mechanics

Just like Hasselbeck...watching Sanchez just screams "I am a QB" he by far has the best mechanics of a QB coming out of the draft since Peyton Manning

it will be intresting to see how the Jets develop him...Sanchez as a world of talent...i was actually suprised Mangini didn't take him....rumors were he was going to but the Jets gave him everything he wanted so....it worked out I guess

Wasnt impressed with either one, nobody took a step forward to claim the job, hopefully we dont have to name one becuase of less mistakes,

I dont care who is our QB I wanna win, but after watching the game I dont know if either deserves the job.

What boggles my mind is niether one is stepping forward, but still we see more of Ratcliff than letting Quinn & Anderson play so one can raise to the top, which leads me to the conclusion, Mangini already knows who he's gonna name, & avoiding a training camp QB controversy.

IMO, I dont think we got the QB question answered last night. Still a dead heat to me. I want no part of naming the QB until after the Titans game. TN is a very legit team and gives us the best chance at a good evaluation. I say we watchy that game then decide before the Bears game

If something happens in the Bears game to make us change our minds, so be it.