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You weren't going to the game, even though you have tickets because it was gonna be on TV. Now because it's not going to be on TV you're upset even though you still have those tickets (or maybe not if you sold them).
We sold our PSLs, so no tickets. But, regardless, I wouldn't drive three hours to Cleveland to watch a preseason game and get a hotel room. We haven't been to a game in a couple of seasons which is why we sold. We still watch every game on tv, though. What upsets me is that two weeks out, the Browns are changing the "rules" to televise a preseason game in the Bengals market of Dayton. How is that even right? I can understand a regular season game, but even then, Dayton should be exempt. We weren't going to go to our regular hang out for preseason games since they were on a local channel. Now, we may have to change our plans to see the game. Get the reason it's upsetting?
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The Browns are trying NOT to screw you by getting the game sold out so it can be televised.
Actually, they are. It's a preseason game. When do preseason games EVER sell out, I wonder? They probably don't...and for good reason...it's not really a "game". It's a waste of money.
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For you and all the other fans in the area.
I'm not in the area. I'm in the Bengals market.
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The idea is to get the stadium sold out. Some folks paid more, some paid less. That's the way business is sometimes.
That's still B.S. I had to pay full price -- no choice. It's "do it or lose it". Now, they offer a deal and threaten to take it off tv because nobody wants to go to a meaningless game. If they are going to offer "deals" almost TWO WEEKS out, they need to remove the face value line from their tickets. It shouldn't be "well, some are face value and some aren't -- depends on if it's getting close to selling out. Wait to see if you get screwed, but you still have to pay full price."
What if they do this for every game? Is that okay with you, too? Season ticket holders, and those that have already paid full price, will be stabbed again.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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You are absolutely right, football is a different business. Unlike Best Buy, where if they don't sell that TV today, they can sell it tomorrow. They still have a item to sell.
Concerts, sporting events, hotel/motel rooms etc are all perishable. Basically, you're selling a period of time. Not so much the actual event. If you don't sell it, you never get the chance to sell that same time again. Better to get something for it than let it sit empty (to a certain point anyways, there is always a point where it's not beneficial to sell it)
But I do agree with you that they seem to get ya at every turn and could (and should) do more to make the Season ticket holders feel more valued.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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Legend
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My biggest problem is that they make us pay full price for preseason tickets in the first place.
JMHO
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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j/c
I understand why they do it. Hey its a way to make money. But I don't like it either. They should throw the ST holders a bone as being loyal to what has been a quite below average product if they are going to dump them. What that "bone" is, I don't know. But, at least make it appear they care. What they should REALLY do is donate these to boys and girl charity organizations so kids can go that wouldn't normally have a chance. Mr. Lerner can afford it. Could they not write off face value of the tix come tax time?
"My signature line goes here."
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It isn't so much the $70 I would have saved. It is just the principal of the matter.
I would think, you either fill a seat and make something off it or it is empty and you make nothing. You also gotta wonder if the current state of the economy plays a hand in this too.
Someone above mentioned it being like buying a t.v at full price then the price drops . . . I don't quite see it that way. The seats are the seats. There is no demand per se to move a product that isn't selling to reduce inventory. It's fixed. You have the same today as you will tomorrow. Slash the prices for all and fill em up. Season holders too.
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Agreed... next to the PSL (which I realize is a LOCAL deal), the full-price pre-season ticket is one of the NFL's greatest swindles of all time. 
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Agreed... next to the PSL (which I realize is a LOCAL deal), the full-price pre-season ticket is one of the NFL's greatest swindles of all time.
But, there actually seems to be a real desire in the NFL owners/commish leadership to eliminate two preseason games (one home & one away). By replacing it with a real game the season ticket holders are left with only one bogus ticket.
Here's hoping it happens. 
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That's a good point. I'm not sure if they could write it off at tax time or not. I wonder if there is a cap on how many seats they can donate? If it's a small amount of seats, I'm sure they could do that. But if it's 30,000 seats, I doubt they would donate that many. Sure would be some good will for the local charities though. Plus a way to expand your fan base as you may expose the young crowd to a experience they may not have been able to have otherwise.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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Hey its free market capitalism,supply and demand and all that. You dont seem to like the system when it isnt benefiting you.  KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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If I recall, Modell would, on occasion, "buy" the remaining tickets ( and I assume donate) so as to not have a game blacked out. Wasn't a common occurrence, but I think I recall it happening a few times. Anyone else remember him doing that?
"My signature line goes here."
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Hey its free market capitalism,supply and demand and all that. You dont seem to like the system when it isnt benefiting you.
KING
Like selling the ticket for higher then face value. thats one way season ticket holders get their money back. If the Browns make the playoffs and the season ticket holder cant make the game, how many tickets will you find for sale at face value (unless your buying off someone you know)? Id say close to ZERO.
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If it's a small amount of seats, I'm sure they could do that. But if it's 30,000 seats, I doubt they would donate that many.
Why not? if they dont sell the seat it just sits empty and they make no money off of it. If the seat doesnt sell and they give it away for free at least that person may buy some concessions or whatever.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Mostly a scale thing. 30k is a lot of tickets to coordinate.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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Legend
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Not being a season ticket holder,,, I was wondering, do they require you to purchase the two preseason games?
If so, I would hope that you, as a season ticket holder, would receive something in return for the cost difference between what you paid and what they are charging for them for the detroit game.
In a way, that truly sucks for you peen.. in another sense, I can't blame them for doing everything and anything they can to try and sell tickets and keep the games televised..
I have little doubt that the tough economic times are having an adverse effect on ticket sales..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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J/C
this is all very simple supply vs. demand that the NFL does not seem to understand (or more likely, care about)
demand is higher for regular season games (supply is fixed). so, you have to adjust the price for the preseason games in order to make equal sales (or you are able to raise the price for regular season games if both are selling out).
my solution above takes care of both problems...you simply slightly raise the regular season games while significantly lowering the preseason games and make the same amount of $$ in the end while adjusting for the demand in both cases.
#gmstrong
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Yes Damanshot, they do require season ticket holders to pay full price for the preseason games.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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Yes Damanshot, they do require season ticket holders to pay full price for the preseason games.
Full Price as in the same as a regular season home game?
WOW.... I can't figure how the preseason games are worth that!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I talked to a guy in the ticket office and he said he understood...and that is about all he said....geesh.
To be honest, it sounded like a lot of people in the ticket office didn't agree with the idea.
Just a few comment to some that were made to me.
Yes, I understand the benefits to having season tickets. That doesn't have to be explained to me. One thing none of the people full of advice failed to mention as one of my benefits is the benefit of being able to see all the game if I so choose. Those who don't have season tickets don't, yet it seems like many have this feeling they should have that right at other season ticket holders and my expense. Glad to know where you stand.
All I know is if you were selling nuts and bolts to your largest customer at $0.06 and then started selling the same nuts and bolts to a smaller customer at $0.03, you might find yourself with a ticked off big customer looking for a new vendor.
I am still a little shocked at the reply I got from the ticket office..."I understand"...then silence.
He did go on to tell me as a season ticket holder I could buy some Bucks tickets the general public aren't privy to and i could e-mail the fan squad...I told him that was great, but I was a Gator fan. Then he was silent again...and that pretty much ended the discussion.
I can't say I am shocked by most of the replies by other board members...pretty typical really.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Thank you Mr. Lerner ... Class act !
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Yes Damanshot, they do require season ticket holders to pay full price for the preseason games.
Full Price as in the same as a regular season home game?
WOW.... I can't figure how the preseason games are worth that!
Ah heck, every nfl team does it. If you're surprised by that you need to wake up - it's been discussed on here ad nauseum for years.
Is it right or fair? No. It just is what it is. I don't agree with it - IT IS WHAT IT IS - always has been, and probably always will be.
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Yeah, sadly, most of the level 1 CSRs aren't empowered to do anything other than be a pin cushion for complaints. It's a pretty crappy job.
It's been a while since I was a ST holder, but to be honest, in this day and age, I'm kinda surprised they don't have a separate service line for season ticket holders. One would think they would be more interested in keeping them happy given the high dollars they generally spend, both on tickets and other items.
Sorry to hear that your stuck Peen.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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'Peen. I totally agree with you dude.
- As a season ticket holder, you are forced to buy preseason tickets at face value. - That's what the people who disagree with you don't understand.
- For lack of a better analogy, this is the Browns biting the hand that feeds them.
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Sorry to hear that your stuck Peen.
Again...it isn't a matter of being stuck...I donate the tickets to charity and take the tax write-off.
It's just the fact they did this.....oh well.
I hope they don't start discounting regular season tickets.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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All Pro
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I'm trying to understand your POV.
Would you be happier if the game didn't sell out and was a blackout?
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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All I know is if you were selling nuts and bolts to your largest customer at $0.06 and then started selling the same nuts and bolts to a smaller customer at $0.03, you might find yourself with a ticked off big customer looking for a new vendor.
...and of course, there isn't another 'vendor'...unless you decide to become a Titans fan.
You would think instead of just saying 'I understand' they'd try to offer some small concession...like a gift certificate for the team shop or something making up the difference...it might not make you that happy...but it's an offer to placate...not to mention they'd probably win out in the end, as a small gift certificate to the team shop generally leads to buying more stuff.
But they know they've got us, so why bother?
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Thats what I said! They are treating the financial foundation (season ticket holders) as cash cows to milk!
FTR, there IS an option to press a button for season tick holder when you call. They KNOW youre a season ticket holder.
I'm being charged full price for a meaningless game that results in unneccesary injuries to our team
The ONLY way I make any benefit on these tickets is by donating them and deducting the value of those tickets on my taxes.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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I'm trying to understand your POV.
Would you be happier if the game didn't sell out and was a blackout?
No. I want it to be a sellout without selling out the people who pay full price for their seats.
I don't care if games are blacked out or not..I have season tickets and can go to any game I want.
I might as well take the attitude the majority take around here....I don't really care if you see the game or not....as long as I do, I have no worries.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Yes Damanshot, they do require season ticket holders to pay full price for the preseason games.
Full Price as in the same as a regular season home game?
WOW.... I can't figure how the preseason games are worth that!
It also creates a problem when you want to just get rid of a regular season game. On this board you can sell at face, but "face isn't really cost". I pay $50 X 10 games = $500 per seat but only 8 games have any real value. So my actual cost per game is $62.50.
So if I want to sell my tickets on this board I automaticly lose $12.50 X 4 seats. That forces me to sell on Ebay for an even higher price. (maybe someone in charge will read this and reconsider the "face" policy vs cost)
Preseason tickets are simply a gigantic pain in the butt.
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I'm trying to understand your POV.
Would you be happier if the game didn't sell out and was a blackout?
When it comes time to renew season tickets, the browns tell season ticket holders that they have to pay face value for all 10 home games up front.
- Essentially, here's what the Browns tell season ticket holders: "If you want to continue to be a season ticket holder, you have pay face value for all regular season games and two preseason games, if you don't consent, you will no longer be a season ticket holder"
- As a result, some season ticket holders tell the Browns this: "This is absurd why am I being forced to pay the same amount of money for a preseason game as I am a regular season game"
Then the Browns say "Sorry dude, take it or leave it"
Then the people who have the means and willingness to support such as stupid business practice end up paying full price for season tickets. - This happens every year, no big deal.
However, now the Browns are saying "Well, season ticket holders have to continue to pay full price for tickets, however, for those of you who aren't season ticket holders, we have put together plans where you get discounted tickets + free hot dogs + free drinks."
Got it?
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'Peen. I totally agree with you dude.
- As a season ticket holder, you are forced to buy preseason tickets at face value. - That's what the people who disagree with you don't understand.
- For lack of a better analogy, this is the Browns biting the hand that feeds them.
I'm not here to argue but I do understand that preseason tickets are sold to STH’s at face and when ticket sales are slow, sometimes an NFL team will discount the remaining tickets to fill the stadium. And it “sucks” for the STH to have already paid full price. And I think all the people that disagree with you understand the same thing. We just choose to look at it differently.
The Browns are in the business of filling that stadium be it with STH’s, single game buyers, corporations in the skyboxes, diehard fans, fair-weather fans, and even fans for the opposing team.
Maybe I’m one of those idiot half-full guys. I look at it like I’m paying $1360 for the 8 regular season games and the preseason games are free. I mean seriously, if they discounted the preseason games, they’d just roll that money into the regular season games anyway.
There is talk of adding one or two games to the regular season while at the same time reducing the preseason by the same amount. I think the STH’s are all for that….but the players aren’t.
Maybe the teams that do this should send concession coupons for use in the regular season that equal the money “lost”. That would be fair….but life isn’t fair. The only teams that don’t do this are the ones that win all the time. They have no problem selling out.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Is there still a waiting list for Season Tickets?
If there is, then they have no concern for keeping the current ones happy, if there is another waiting to take that seat.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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However, now the Browns are saying "Well, season ticket holders have to continue to pay full price for tickets, however, for those of you who aren't season ticket holders, we have put together plans where you get discounted tickets + free hot dogs + free drinks."
Got it?
And when one of those people who isn't a season ticket holder wants to go to the Browns-Steelers game they'll be spending $100 for a $50 ticket and you won't.
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In Chicago, it's years and years long. I waited 6 or 7 years before I got the nod. And I put my name on the list when they had a bunch of losing seasons. Their recent Super Bowl run inflated that list to some crazy level (still not as bad as in Green Bay and Pittsburgh).
I know my brother-in-law put his sons name on the Steelers wait list when he was born, that was 9+ years ago. Nothing yet.
As far as the Browns go, there is no wait list right now.
I always thought it would be better to give the tickets away to families in need. It would bring a smile to a lot of kids faces, the Browns could claim the donation on their taxes and it could build new fans. Of course, STH's would still complain that poor people have it better than them because they are getting free tickets.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Quote:
Quote:
However, now the Browns are saying "Well, season ticket holders have to continue to pay full price for tickets, however, for those of you who aren't season ticket holders, we have put together plans where you get discounted tickets + free hot dogs + free drinks."
Got it?
And when one of those people who isn't a season ticket holder wants to go to the Browns-Steelers game they'll be spending $100 for a $50 ticket and you won't.
This comment has nothing to do with the conversation at hand. How is it you guys don't understand this?
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Of course, STH's would still complain that poor people have it better than them because they are getting free tickets.
 Yeah, you're right. It's not about feeling ripped-off or anything.
I have given plenty of my tickets away in the past...because I wanted to. But, I took a major hit on the cost by getting zero dollars in return. This isn't the same as those instances. Again, I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. 
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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You want me to be upset too......that doesn't mean I don't understand. I do.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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LOL, I don't care if you're upset. What I do care about is your snide remark about season ticket holders. It made you sound like a giant ass.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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And yet, you and others keep saying we don't understand. We do. We just aren't upset. So, I would take that as an insult to my intelligence.
My snide remark was trying to prove a point. Someone will always complain about being cheated in any situation like this, no matter how much it benefits the team or other people. And I never said every STH would complain.
Nice job on the name calling. Very mature.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Dude!
This team has stunk for a decade, and there has not been one break for season ticket holders. Now, this team's poor performance has led to seats being available for games - seats that have been vacated by former season ticket holders who got smart and turned their back on the team. So now, instead of rewarding the season ticket holders who have not turned their back on the team, they insult them by continuing to force them to pay full price for preseason tickets while the rest of us (non-season ticket holders) get 50% off preseason tickets plus free food & drinks.
You obviously know why the season ticket holders are upset, why do you disagree with them for being upset?
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This team has stunk for a decade, and there has not been one break for season ticket holders. Now, this team's poor performance has led to seats being available for games - seats that have been vacated by former season ticket holders who got smart and turned their back on the team. So now, instead of rewarding the season ticket holders who have not turned their back on the team, they insult them by continuing to force them to pay full price for preseason tickets while the rest of us (non-season ticket holders) get 50% off preseason tickets plus free food & drinks.
You obviously know why the season ticket holders are upset, why do you disagree with them for being upset?
Fair question.
I’m not a Browns STH. I’m a STH for the Bears (I only signed up on their wait list because going to bars to watch the Browns seemed to cost me more money than STH for the Bears – and live games are really cool). Anyway, this happened for the Bears a few years back and everyone on their board was pissed. I said the same thing then as I did now. As the years progress, it all evens out. People yelled at me and said I was a blind Bears Front Office fan (funny, because I don’t even like the Bears let alone their Front Office). When the Bears made that Super Bowl run, these same STH’s were selling their tix on eBay for double or triple the value (not all, but some). And anyone who owned a PSL was selling at a crazy price. Is losing 50% of a preseason ticket really that bad when considering all those benefits?
So yes, the Browns stink and we haven’t made a Super Bowl run. But we will. And when we do, it will even out for those people burned in this situation. They’ll get automatic playoff tickets while these 50% preseason ticket holders will get nothing or have to pay broker prices. It will even out.
Would I make this same decision if I were the Browns owner? No. I’d either give them away to needy families or mark them 50% off and make up the difference tot he STH's with coupons to the team shop. But I do understand why they’re doing it…make more money with more people in the stadium.
I feel bad for those that are upset. I’m just not one of them.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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