|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Quote:
Does that describe Favre? And does it decribe Anderson?
It does describe them both. But it leaves out the short passes of which Favre can throw accurately whereas DA cannot.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Quote:
I donl't envy Mangini his choice
Neither do I and I agree with most of your post that neither has, in our eyes, done anything to really, obviously separate himself from the other. With maybe one exception. Quinn seems to be the more consistent at having the ability to move the chains. From 0-20 years he's been deadly accurate and until I re-watch the two games so far it seems that the lack of scoring points and fizzled out drives seem more attributed to teammates making bad plays/decisions and play calling than to Quinn.
WR's dropping TD's, holding penalty on FG, screens into the backfield on 3rd and 9? (I still wonder if the play calling is ignoring down and distance in favor of evaluation of certain players in certain situations).
What I've seen so far, even as early '07 as DA looked tonight, I feel Quinn has been more consistent and I don't think DA can sustain his good play on any consistent basis just as he's not been able to do to this point.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,543
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,543 |
Quote:
screens into the backfield on 3rd and 9? (I still wonder if the play calling is ignoring down and distance in favor of evaluation of certain players in certain situations).
The QBs have the ability to change up plays based upon the defense. (commonly known as an audible ....... something not seen in these parts in quite some time) lol Bad plays on down/distance fall on the shoulders of the QB just as runs into 8 man fronts do.
I am still concerned about aspects of each QB's play.
I don't know if either guy can master the adjustments required, and gain the ability to put the team in the right play at the line.
I don't know if Quinn will be more than a dink/dunker.
I don't know if Anderson can master the touch required to make the shorter throws.
Each guy seems to make just inexplicable throws at times.
I certainly haven't seen a thing in the 2 games that gives me an answer. Less than 20 snaps each is hardly a great body of work ..... and each guy's efforts and results are a mixed bag at best.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165 |
Quote:
You may think Cutler is a **** but he's a helluva QB.
Not a Cutler fan here but I just watched his week 2 highlights against the Giants.
He looked sensational.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
He's 26-years-old. If he hasn't reached his potential yet, he never will.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044 |
Quote:
Quote:
Does that describe Favre? And does it decribe Anderson?
It does describe them both. But it leaves out the short passes of which Favre can throw accurately whereas DA cannot.
I don't get this statement.....at all
Sure DA of 2007 struggled with the short passes, but he improved on that somewhat in 2008 and Da short game is much better now than it was in 2007
The TE screen to Royal looked crisp
The Screen to Furrey looked crisp
The INT on the throw to Davis WAS NOT DA fault
The Ball hit Davis "in the hands" ANY ball that hits the receiver in the hands in the NFL should be caught period!
that was Davis fault...it was slightly high...I see Manning make that same throw on a weekly basis...Colts receivers reach up above their head and catch it(which the DA ball was at Davis eye level)
that ball should have been caught....it was a decent throw
Many have Quinn Colored glasses on.
In Quinn's defense, I will say...when he was sacked on 3rd and a foot...why in the world was our OC calling a pass on that play?..bad form form Dabol and not Quinn's fault at all
both QB have pros and Cons..but Anderson is every bit as good as Quinn....
The QB is the least of our worries...we will win on how well our Defense performs...that will be the deal breaker
I just like Anderson's style better...he like to push th ball upfield...and he stays in the pocket...Quinn in college was "not" known for having a big arm and he likes to run...if it works great, if not, well...
I think Quinn can be a good QB too...I am just saying the fans are severly mistreating DA here
if it wasn't for DA, we wouldn't of even had a reason to cheer in 07 to begin with.
As of last night, DA is clearly winning right now
Quinn will get a shot next week...as its only fair...
the Question is will Quinn rise to the occassion and play heads and shoulders above DA?
im not sure....but the team in general "rallied" around DA last night...I have not seen them play like that offensively since 07.....the team seemed to be making a statement
Also, just to let you know...Wille McGinest made a comment on NFL network a few months ago stating that the lockeroom was behind DA
remember...many of those same guys are still in that lockerroom...
But lets just see how things play out
Don't be suprised though if Anderson is our starter come opening day
He is not the bum many of you make him out to be...and when he takes us to the playoffs....maybe some of you will realize this...
I am also not throwing Quinn under the bus either...I hope he succeeds as well, we used a 1st rder on him...but right now DA seems like he "wants it more"
Also yes Anderson is EXACTLY like Brett Farve
A young Brett Farve was traded to Green Bay...this Young Farve "struggled" with the short passing game and threw some INTS with a strong arm, and Farve is not very mobile.....Anderson reminds me of a young Farve...he just needs a bit more coaching
On the Basis of pure talent and arm he is heads and shoulders" above Quinn in terms of physical talent....we finally have a QB Coach and a OC here that can "tune" DA mental aspects of the game.
just remember....Farve "struggled" in his 1st 3 years in the league....his light came on in his 4th year
http://www.nfl.com/players/brettfavre/profile?id=FAV540222
Now look at Anderson
http://www.nfl.com/players/derekanderson/profile?id=AND180512
their 1st 3 years are very "similar"
the light didn't come on for Farve until his 4th year......This will be Anderson 4th year...he is improving and becoming a polished QB....if the kid does win the job....give the guy a fair chance......
I'll be willing to sit back all year and watch Brady Quinn if he is picked and I won't call for his head under any circumstance....if Anderson is picked, he deserves the same
If the fans would support the team and support the QB it could do wonders for their confidence
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151 |
Knight i'm right with you.
I was sold with the snow slide.
I'm exactly with you. to further...DA has 25 starts...and they said when Eli was starting and learning that around the 40th start when it clicks. That's about 1 more full year.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,013
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,013 |
Quote:
if the defense is half decent, we can overcome that.
that's a big IF...and if you're wrong, it nullifies your argument to make DA the starter. even if DA is the right choice for a team with no running game, he is also the wrong choice for a team with a terrible defense, b/c although he's able to put points up, he's frequently putting the D in a bad spot with turnovers.
Browns fans are born with it...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
Quote:
Quote:
if the defense is half decent, we can overcome that.
that's a big IF...and if you're wrong, it nullifies your argument to make DA the starter. even if DA is the right choice for a team with no running game, he is also the wrong choice for a team with a terrible defense, b/c although he's able to put points up, he's frequently putting the D in a bad spot with turnovers.
How many interceptions did Eli and Roethlessberger throw during their SuperBowl years also Compared to TD's? Would you agree both of them have good D's? Is Quinns 2TD's to 3 int's in his 4 games last year and his pre-season start this year a good ratio? When you have a bad D, and teams put up a lot of points...such as the Cinci game of 07, DA could keep pace. I don't believe for a minute, Quinn would have kept pace or been able to counter the way DA did.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151 |
Loyal I'm with you there.
Thats the thing about Anderson that I like so much. I like that if we get behind, we can get back into it come crunch time. Quinn is a manager keep it close til the end then eek it out.
I like that with Anderson if we want to we can come out and just score at any time.
We can either work our way down for an 8 play drive, or hit a 1-2 play scoring drive. Its what makes the Saints perennial contenders, and its what could make us one too.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 175
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 175 |
The Saints? perennial contenders? Then have only recently become any good and it is because of Drew Brees. I would say he is a dink and dunker more than a throw it 50 yards down field kind of guy. The thing is he is like a machine. He is probably the most accurate QB in the league, he is mobile and makes all the correct decisions.
Of our 2 QBs who does that sound more like?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
You don't dink and dunk your way to 350-400yard passing games every week. It just doesn't happen. I beg to differ here. He is a very accurate QB who goes deep often...Marques Colston comes to mind.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
Brees goes deep less than any big time QB.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
That might be true, but you still don't dink and dunk your way to 5,000 yard passing seasons and average over 8 yards per attempt. Not sure where he stands going deep but he has plenty of 20 + yard passes..
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
Not saying he dinks and dunks, but he doesn't bomb it. Where Brees excels is with his incredible accuracy and great reads. The reason he gets so many yards is because he gives his receivers chance to get yards after the catch.
If he was 6'4" instead of 6'0", he might be the best QB in the NFL.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
Thanks Dong. Who does that sound more like? LOL
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
Those stats were useless. They showed nothing about how far he throws the ball.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
Quote:
Those stats were useless. They showed nothing about how far he throws the ball.
Ok but this one does.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-pro-bowl/09000d5d80e3e1ed/2008-Best-of-Drew-Brees
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 175
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 175 |
You do throw for 5,000 yards when you attepmt 635 passes and complete 65% of them.
Before last season if someone asked you to list the 5 strongest armed QBs, heck even the top 10 I find it hard to belive you would list Brees. San Diego let him go because he didn't have a "big arm" and had the shoulder problem. Miami passed on signing him because they didn't think his arm would be strong enough for throwing down field (before Parcells)...
Peyton Manning dinks and dunks better than any QB. It doesn't stop him from compiling huge numbers and TD totals.
A smart QB takes what the defense gives them. The ones that aren't smart try to go for it all more often and usually less successfully than "dinker and dunkers".
Give me a QB that completes more than 60% of his passes. That is what it takes to win. not take stupid chances down field when you could get a 5 yard pass for a first down and keep the chains moving.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 974
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 974 |
Quote:
Quinn has only been on the bench for two years for one reason.
He held out in camp.
If he really was better then chuck frye or DA when he got here he would of started. Romeo was on the hot seat already why wouldn't he start the guy who would give him the best chance of winning in his eyes? Romeo did some things wrong, however I doubt he had it out for Quinn the way you make it sound. He played rookies, quite a few of them, so you can't tell me he just didn't like rookies.
I know a lot of folks don't like DA around here and that's fine, I'm not going to try change you mind on it. What I don't understand is why some folks feel that he needs to be traded away at all cost. A good backup QB is worth a lot, I figure some of you would understand that after seeing our backups after DA and Quinn went down last year.
Please tell me why we have to get rid of DA if Quinn is the starter. It doesn't make sense to me.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044 |
not true. they let him go because of the shoulder and because they had philip rivers waiting on deck. they drafted rivers when brees wasn't playing well...yet the lights came on in the 4th year and brees kept rivers on the bench. they certainly didn't let brees go because of arm strength because rivers has as weak, if not a weaker arm.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
Quote:
not true. they let him go because of the shoulder and because they had philip rivers waiting on deck. they drafted rivers when brees wasn't playing well...yet the lights came on in the 4th year and brees kept rivers on the bench. they certainly didn't let brees go because of arm strength because rivers has as weak, if not a weaker arm.
On a side note, how does that guy throw the ball with that strange throwing motion? Does he have gator arms or is it just the motion that makes him look like he's shot-putting his throws? It looks strange. And it looks weak. But from what I've seen, he gets the job done. I think SD would love to have Brees back though.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
Well in 97 career passing attempts Quinn sits at 49% completion percentage so he definately is not what you want. And that is throwing 10 yard passes. Who do you suppose we get?
Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 08/23/09 10:18 PM.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 175
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 175 |
Quinn did hold out. So he NEVER competed for the QB job against Frye. The coin flip? remember that? that was DA and CF no Quinn involved. I've heard Savage orchestrated the hold out so Quinn could have a red shirt year.
DA would be the perfect QB for us if he could complete more than 50% of his passes but he can't. To me that tells me when he has to fit a ball in a tight spot the odds are equal for the offense and defense. I'd like the odds to get a little bit better for the offense because lets face it we need every advantage we can get.
I don't want to trade DA and i don't want Quinn to just get the job. but you have to realize that a staring QB in the NFL better be accurate or his team is going to be good one week crappy the next.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
That is ridiculous. 97 attempts is about three games. You can't judge a player on three games.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 175
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 175 |
The fact that Quinn doesn't complete more than 60% of his passes has worried me for a while. The only thing I can give him a pass on is he has only started what 2 games? Anderson had a few more starts, and i know college and nfl are different but anderson has always been a 50% passer because he takes to many chances. Quinn has been a 60% passer before he came to the Browns.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
Quote:
That is ridiculous. 97 attempts is about three games. You can't judge a player on three games.
I also believe it's important that history has shown that Quinn's completion percentage got better over time in college. He has a track record of getting better with experience. Doesn't mean he will in the pros, but historical progression is a good indicator that he learns from his mistakes and has the ability to get better.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 175
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 175 |
Another thing I will give you on Quinn is he does appear to have problems throwing the deep outs. That HAS to improve for him to "Quinn" me over.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 974
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 974 |
Quote:
Quinn did hold out. So he NEVER competed for the QB job against Frye. The coin flip? remember that? that was DA and CF no Quinn involved. I've heard Savage orchestrated the hold out so Quinn could have a red shirt year.
Yeah, maybe. Then again all I heard from folks who knew him better then me that he was NFL ready and could start right away. I would of rather him start of freaking chuck anyway he couldn't of been any worse.
I don't believe that Savage would of wanted him to hold out, that doesn't make sense to me. He spent a lot to get him, it would make him look rather silly to keep him from playing. Oh well, water under the bridge I guess, and probably more stale then the pop tart I found in my car this morning.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
It is true Anderson has typically been a high 50's passer. Quinn his last year at Notre Dame was at 61 %. So 2 out of his 4 years he was below 60%. He did have the benefit of padding his numbers against teams like Army and Navy where he fared way better than against teams like USC and some others. I don't think Quinns accuracy is one of his strongest points in my opinion and it is obviously not one of Andersons...You can only hope they both improve in that area. I know this camp Quinn was throwing alot behind the receivers which is more timing than anything. Anderson has had games where he completed 72 % of his passes and games where he completes 50% of his passes. He needs to be more consistent obviously...but if he can complete on average 62% of his passes and three are TD strikes I am happy as you know what.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,692
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,692 |
Quote:
The Saints? perennial contenders? Then have only recently become any good and it is because of Drew Brees. I would say he is a dink and dunker more than a throw it 50 yards down field kind of guy. The thing is he is like a machine. He is probably the most accurate QB in the league, he is mobile and makes all the correct decisions.
Of our 2 QBs who does that sound more like?
Neither.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
Ok, this is where I call major BS.
A: DA's career completion percentage is 54%.
B: Quinn had a completion percentage of 65% his junior year and 62% his senior year.
C: Of course Quinn did badly against USC. He was on Notre Dame, a team no where near as good as their competition. He had no players, especially an offensive line.
D: Quinn looked virtually no worst than DA is what I saw at camp. Maybe a tiny bit, but not enough for you to be using it as an argument.
E: Why don't we compare Quinn and DA's college stats, if you wanna go back to then. DA never had a completion percentage of 55%.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
Fair enough..You win. Quinn should be the starter and he is the best QB in the League never to get a shot at starting because Perennial all pros have been in front of him. I think he should start based on his 61% college completion percentage alone. That's not including his awesome field presence, his great demeanor at the Podium and his ability to throw the best 5 yard dump around. And even though he never fared well against better teams in College the Browns are an elite team that he will fare much better against any level of competition in the Pros. Happy.
Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 08/23/09 10:49 PM.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
Ahh, I believe what you just did is called Reductio ad absurdum. It is usually used when the person has no argument left to offer, and is considered one of the lowest forms of debate.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Pot, meet kettle. But I digress...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
What did I do that you are referencing?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
Yes that is what I did...Listen Derek Anderson is not the most accurate QB I never said he is. But using Brady Quinn as an example of Accuracy is bad in itself...and that is for someone that takes way less chances. This boils down to nothing. Thanks for teaching me what the lowest form of argument is. Let's just agree to disagree. I like what Anderson brings and his potential and upside more than what Quinn brings and his potential and upside. If Quinn is the Starter I will be on board.. I don't make these decisions and I am glad I don't, but I think a few of you might be upset when the starter is named.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Who's In the Market for a QB /
Anderson?
|
|
