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Tress was brought in to beat Michigan at first and anything after that was a bonus. Now the bar is set extremely high and yes he hasn't delivered in the bigger games.
That is true and false. I've been watching Osu football since the late 80's, and the expectations have always been Rose bowl, big 10 champs, and in most years championship contenders. Cooper had some sick squads in the 90's. If I'm correct 93, 95, 96, 97, and 98 teams were in position to win a championship going into the michigan game. The 98 team was the only one to beat michigan that year. If cooper split his games against michigan he would probably have won at least 2 championships. There's no doubt he wass a better recruiter than tressel. Tress gets the ohio kids, but they're not as good as they use to be. Go look at some of those teams in the 90's. I guarantee you we wouldn't have been embarrased like tressel has been in big games lately.Cooper probably loses to florida too, but I don't think we lose 41-14. Cooper built teams like sec teams. Good o-lines, d-lines, and a great secondary. Not saying I want cooper back, but I don't think tress is much better.
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Just have Cooper go to the houses of all the kids in the talent rich states like Texas (where he got David Boston), California, FL, etc. and just have Jim handle the Michigan game every year and recruit in-state boys for the "family atmosphere".  I love Tressel but the Vest needs to win a big game soon. A road win at PSU would be HUGE. That will be for the Big 10, a BCS bowl, and national recognition.
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Terrelle Pryor might be the most overrated QB in college football right now.
I don't think it's so much poor playcalling as it is Tressel having little faith in Pryor, leading to poor playcalling.
We've seen Tressel call good plays and use a good offense...Troy Smith anyone?
But Troy was a senior when that attack was unleashed. Troy also had matured a lot not only as a player but as a person. Pryor has a long way to go in both.
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it shows something. when you're down and you need passing yards, you're not gonna get that from an option guy who simply hasn't completed enough passes. i also question whether he's football smart enough, at this point.
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Quote:
Terrelle Pryor might be the most overrated QB in college football right now.
I don't think it's so much poor playcalling as it is Tressel having little faith in Pryor, leading to poor playcalling.
We've seen Tressel call good plays and use a good offense...Troy Smith anyone?
But Troy was a senior when that attack was unleashed. Troy also had matured a lot not only as a player but as a person. Pryor has a long way to go in both.
I don't think it's a faith issue,...it's a training issue. The boy is in training. Like you said, it will take some time.
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so true....
i said it during the couple of drives that we started on their 40s...."if we don't score here we are done"
also that "pryor is NOT a QB...and he never will be"
All he can do is run....lets jus put him at WR in the slot....jk..maybe...
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Terrelle Pryor might be the most overrated QB in college football right now.
Ammo, I agree with you 110% (doesn't happen to often).  There is something about Pryor that isn't there. You know how there are times you see a guy and he's got that "it factor". He can be a raw talent, but you see "it". I just don't see "it" with this guy....at least not as a qb
“Unemployment is low because everyone has two jobs. Unemployment is low because people are working 60, 70, 80 hours a week and can barely feed their family.” -AOC
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i'm gonna hold judgement on pryor. i think the kid has potential.
he's never going to be a qb worthy of a first round nfl draft pick, but that doesn't mean he can't be a great college qb.
osu's season is shot, they have no chance at a national championship, even if they run their schedule there is no way they make the nc over a 1-loss b12 or sec team. it is just not gonna happen this year, which is why i think tressel really needs to experiment with different ways to attack on offense. utlize pryor's skills and put him in better spots.
ammo brought up troy smith, but keep in mind that troy smith took a long time to develop. he lit up michigan in 2004, but remember how he looked at the start of the next season against texas? tressel was almost afraid to let him throw, a lot of qb runs.
i know nfl qb's like mcnabb and others work some college kids out over the offseason, i think pryor would be well served to spend time with mcnabb and work on being a qb.
i still think it's too early to say pryor is never gonna be a good enough qb to win a nc.
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I absolutley hate OSU's playcalling and schemes..they do not take advantage of what's on the field..the backs are not powerful enough to gain their own yards and the line isn't nasty enough to plow people back..Pryor has not improved and looks indecisive and tenative...
Dude needs to be a in spread offense and allowed to do what he does best..
The defense was pathic on SC's last drive..I always wonder how U let a team march downfield from inside their own ten and just score... and I really don't want to hear JT's remarks which really downplay whats going on..
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Terrelle Pryor might be the most overrated QB in college football right now.
Ammo, I agree with you 110% (doesn't happen to often). There is something about Pryor that isn't there. You know how there are times you see a guy and he's got that "it factor". He can be a raw talent, but you see "it". I just don't see "it" with this guy....at least not as a qb
I think he has something.
But he needs to harness it.
He needs to grow up, too.
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] My thoughts? Tress needs to hire an offensive coordinator
Totally agree, and I have prolly annoyed the hell outta everyone I have been talking with since the game as I have been driving that point down their throats..
I want a young offensive mind to come into C-Bus and take the reigns of the offensive play calling.. A guy that eats and breaths offensive football..
I still like Tress sitting over the whole thing, but he needs to swallow his pride at this point and realize his play calling is not the best option..
I heart winning
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OSU is not a good coached football team, sure Pryor hasnt been stellar....but c'mon if he was at Texas right now, or Florida...LSU....the dude would be a Heisman candidate.
The Vest isnt gonna change, hes gonna keep beating Michigan, and the rest of the big 10 and losing to everyone else because he gets out coached badly. If we are not immensely more talented than the other team, then we end up losing because of are ridiculous schemes and Tressels whole mindset and philosophy.
Nothing is gonna change until Jim is gone, sad to say, buts it the stark truth. Hes running a great football program into the ground nationally, and its gonna start catching up with us on the recruiting trail.
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] My thoughts? Tress needs to hire an offensive coordinator
Totally agree, and I have prolly annoyed the hell outta everyone I have been talking with since the game as I have been driving that point down their throats..
I want a young offensive mind to come into C-Bus and take the reigns of the offensive play calling.. A guy that eats and breaths offensive football..
I still like Tress sitting over the whole thing, but he needs to swallow his pride at this point and realize his play calling is not the best option..
not only his pride, but his loyalty. i think the team could use better minds under jim tressel, offensive and defensive, stop bringing in your buddies, and bring in an outside mind, that might spark something into the team.
when you hire your buddies, it's really awesome when you're winning, but when you aren't, it is really tough to tell it like it is.
i would look at some of the smaller schools who have coordinators doing good things, and see if they want to come and try and prove it at the highest level of college football, let them earn a head coaching position and we can go and start it over again. i have no problem with that. but ohio state's approach right now is horrible.
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J/C
I like to see the vitrol even though we lost a close game. Shows that losing isn't good enough no matter the opponent.
the calls for Tress's head and whatnot...eh, you'll have the extremists throw things out when it's there.
one thing though....for all the talk of how we have struggled in big games....don't forget how dominant we have been in all others. USC loses to Oregon State...Penn State loses to Iowa....couple years ago Texas lost back-to-back to inferior A&M teams....we at least don't choke in those.
just think of the last time the Buckeyes lost to a team outside the top10 (end of year)....
'09 lost to USC...doubt they end up outside top10
'08 lost to USC, Penn State and Texas...all 3 teams finish in top10
'07 lost to Rose Bowl Illinois and Nat'l Champ LSU
'06 lost to Nat'l Champ Florida
'05 lost to top10 Penn State (#3)
'04 let's forget that year ever happened.
So, in the last 5 seasons, the only questionable loss was to Illinois....yes, we need to start winning these elite program games, but at least we aren't coupling those losses with 'bad' losses as well.
That said....we better beat Penn State....in Happy Valley....at night....
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I remember the bashing I took for wanting Tubby Smith gone from UK basketball.
What Tressel is doing, is exactly what Tubby did at UK. He won a National Title. He's winning games he should win, and not winning the big games.
That's how it starts off. In a few years, OSU won't be winning their conference, and OSU fans will run him out of town.
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Tressell's last 3 starting quarterbacks have either won or been in the National Championship game.
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i really don't think we need to call for tressel's head. i think that is a bit excessive right now.
but i just think the guy needs better people under him.
bring in someone who could create a good offense around terrelle pryor, it seems like we are trying to make pryor fit with what we're doing, instead of trying to fit what we're doing around terrelle pryor. the kid has talent, he just needs work. and he needs to grow up a little bit, seems like a tremendous kid though.
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and for all the talk about pryor, he really is being made into a scapegoat. pryor certainly wasn't on the field when we let a freshman quarterback, in crunch time, march right down the field, eat clock, and score with a minute and a half left, or whatever. that was embarassing. flat out embarassing, and that isn't on pryor.
special teams did a good job of pinning them back, the crowd was ridiculous, they were loud, they were there, and the defense let everyone down. as they have in just about every game that we have lost since florida.
they were horrible in the florida and lsu championship games, they were horrible in the usc games, and they gave it up at the end of the texas game, and then last saturday night. the media is pointing the finger at pryor, and at the offense, when the defense has been a joke.
make plays.
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I remember the bashing I took for wanting Tubby Smith gone from UK basketball.
What Tressel is doing, is exactly what Tubby did at UK. He won a National Title. He's winning games he should win, and not winning the big games.
That's how it starts off. In a few years, OSU won't be winning their conference, and OSU fans will run him out of town.
That is possible. But until we start losing our conference and/or games to Michigan, it will continue to be unwarranted.
The other possibility is that we start winning these big games that we are so good at getting into.
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Next year we play the Hurricanes. - They're good enough to beat any team in the country right now. - Next year they'll be better.
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That's true but like I said earlier in the thread. OSU will be VERY good next year. We should only lose 4 guys. Russel and Coleman are the only real "big names"
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Next year we play the Hurricanes. - They're good enough to beat any team in the country right now. - Next year they'll be better.
That is based on them beating a Florida State team that nearly lost to Jacksonville State?
I agree Miami does look to be on the rise though...I just don't think they are a top10 team yet. Next year, quite possibly.
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J/C
I like to see the vitrol even though we lost a close game. Shows that losing isn't good enough no matter the opponent.
the calls for Tress's head and whatnot...eh, you'll have the extremists throw things out when it's there.
one thing though....for all the talk of how we have struggled in big games....don't forget how dominant we have been in all others. USC loses to Oregon State...Penn State loses to Iowa....couple years ago Texas lost back-to-back to inferior A&M teams....we at least don't choke in those.
just think of the last time the Buckeyes lost to a team outside the top10 (end of year)....
'09 lost to USC...doubt they end up outside top10
'08 lost to USC, Penn State and Texas...all 3 teams finish in top10
'07 lost to Rose Bowl Illinois and Nat'l Champ LSU
'06 lost to Nat'l Champ Florida
'05 lost to top10 Penn State (#3)
'04 let's forget that year ever happened.
So, in the last 5 seasons, the only questionable loss was to Illinois....yes, we need to start winning these elite program games, but at least we aren't coupling those losses with 'bad' losses as well.
That said....we better beat Penn State....in Happy Valley....at night....
Good post and info,...gets me to thinking hard,...the last six "Big Game" losses to elite teams were not just to Top Ten --- those teams were all Top Five, IIRC.
So,...
Pit that list against the list of the victories that Tressel HAS HAD in those past years and where those teams were ranked,...Texas (#2), Michigan (#2), Miami (#1), etc,...the other times they beat Michigan and/or Penn State,...I'm not sure about those, and include the other games that were against Top Ten,..i.e. wasn't Wisconsin ranked #8 last year (overrated of course),....and I believe Notre Dame was #5 in the Fiesta Bowl game. Again, I do not have the rankings on the Oklahoma State and Kansas State bowl wins.
It's NO worse than Oklahoma is with Stoops, and he CLEARLY has had as much or more talent there, and takes half the heat.
I'd say it's 45/55 if you want to dig deep enough.
It is what it is. And it's no different than the job he did at Youngstown State -- in the "down" or "off" years, he was always rebuilding an OLine or training a new young QB.
People calling for his head are way off base. He needs to make some changes, sure.
By the way, Pryor has publicly accepted responsibility for his play Saturday. Sorry I don't have a link, but it was on 610 radio in Columbus this morning,...TP makes no mistakes, and that game 'should' have a different outcome. I think the kid was probably more nervous than it was expected Barkley might have been.
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Objectively speaking, I kind of thought this would be a "step back year" for us, considering who we lost.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Pryor needs to "get it." Soon.
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I remember the bashing I took for wanting Tubby Smith gone from UK basketball.
What Tressel is doing, is exactly what Tubby did at UK. He won a National Title. He's winning games he should win, and not winning the big games.
That's how it starts off. In a few years, OSU won't be winning their conference, and OSU fans will run him out of town.
That is possible. But until we start losing our conference and/or games to Michigan, it will continue to be unwarranted.
The other possibility is that we start winning these big games that we are so good at getting into.
And if he does start winning big games, my comparison isn't accurate. But, I'm just pointing out how much heat I took (even on this board) for my stance on Tubby, when it seems Tressel is headin' in the same direction.
This is how Tubby started to get on the hot seat at UK. He wasn't winning any big games. That's when fans started thinking "What is wrong with this guy now?"
Which is where OSU fans are at with Tres right now, IMO.
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you are correct...I wrote top10....but 7 of the last 8 losses we have are to top5 teams.
not top5 at some point during the season...but end of the season, top5 teams.
now, i'm not quite as sunny on the ratio of wins though...using the same metric, we haven't beaten a top5 team (end of season) except for Texas in those same 5 years (ND ended up barely outside the top10).
like I said...we're good at getting into the big games, now we need to start winning them.
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Quote:
I remember the bashing I took for wanting Tubby Smith gone from UK basketball.
What Tressel is doing, is exactly what Tubby did at UK. He won a National Title. He's winning games he should win, and not winning the big games.
That's how it starts off. In a few years, OSU won't be winning their conference, and OSU fans will run him out of town.
This Buckeye fan won't.
We lost to a superior team. No excuses. Our boys played their butts off, especially on defense, but one of the best (if not the best) offensive lines in the country made the difference for the Trojans.
I enjoyed the game to the end. Considering the number of times it took USC 4 downs to get a first or TD and all the other what ifs, I feel Tress has this young team playing well. I was worried about our visit to Happy Valley this year, but no more. I expect a great game then and some great football from the Scarlett and Gray the rest of the way.
I saw us sliding into Ann Arbor this season with at least 3 losses. We may still lose a couple of more until then, but I dare say that the Bucks might just slip into the BCS again, despite the haters.  
Then again, maybe not, but this team lost a ton of talent and is quite young. While I understand the complaints that I have heard about offensive play calling, it should be considered that we have a Soph taking the snap from another Soph and throwing the ball to Sophs and Jrs with a freshman or two mixed in. The young men in charge of protecting the QB also have quite a few more classes until graduation. Then there are the RBs.........
No excuses. A young team that is playing hard. What more can one ask from the Head Coach?
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you are correct...I wrote top10....but 7 of the last 8 losses we have are to top5 teams.
not top5 at some point during the season...but end of the season, top5 teams.
now, i'm not quite as sunny on the ratio of wins though...using the same metric, we haven't beaten a top5 team (end of season) except for Texas in those same 5 years (ND ended up barely outside the top10).
like I said...we're good at getting into the big games, now we need to start winning them.
My brain is thinking, exactly where those teams were ranked at gametime ???? That defines, in my mind, a big game,....
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...and the defense let everyone down.
As bad as Pryor played, the defense was worse and NOBODY is calling them out (well, except you and a few others). When Pryor left the field, his team was in front (I don't count the tiny amount of time given to him).
That's not to say I'm defending Pryor. He's a less gutsy Troy Smith. It seemed TS made bigger plays when he needed to. Everytime Pryor dropped back, I wondered where the ball was not going to be caught or how he'd give up and start running. Too bad, he's still so young for all this pressure (but he signed up for this).
I'm not a OSU fan by far. I'd be happy if they went winless the rest of the way. Sorry, I'm a Toledo Rockets fan. And Toledo plays in the shadow of OSU and Michigan. I can't root for either.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I don't know how anyone can fault the defense. They held the Trojans the whole game...except the last drive. They played well enough to win against #3.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Anyone could debate who was at fault the most.....to me, the defense was on point to stop that last drive. Deep in their end, had a 2nd/3rd and long, and then they marched down the field to put the last score on the board. If the defense makes a play, the game is over. They "failed" last. So it's on them in my book.
Again, I'm not giving Pryor a passing grade for his effort. Had he played better earlier, the last drive would have been meaningless. But we could do that all day. You either blame the whole team as one unit or blame the entity that failed last.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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That's a load of crap, especially coming from a non-Ohio State fan,...  Besides, Pryor himself has already accepted responsibility. Let's suppose the Rockets defense spends all day holding back Ohio State, then tires at the end under the pressure of their offense not having put up enough points,....I'm sorry, but if Pryor played half as well Saturday as he did against Wisconsin and Michigan last year (he had Beanie of course,...) USC doesn't even sniff a win in Columbus. Additionally, the defense was undercoached on that last drive, totally taken out of their scheme, and played Marty Ball (86) Prevent. Should have been sending six, or at least stacking the box,.... BTW, Good Luck Saturday,....you going ? I really see this as a very close repeat of the Navy game. There is NO WAY the line should be -20,...that is wrong, the way Toledo has been playing. I have been saying for years that one day, a MAC school will get Ohio State. This one is very ripe for the picking.
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in that situation, ya gotta close, you can't look at how they played the rest of the game, you have to close.
it was a nice effort, but i think it only looked nice because of the way the defense has played in the last few bowl games as well as the usc matchup.
had they just been able to get that last stop, today we would be talking about one of the best defenses in the country. instead it's the same old talk. and it's spot on. you have to close.
to be honest, i wasn't that impressed with usc as a team. i thought the barkley kid showed a ton of stones, and a ton of poise, but i think if they went up right now against florida, or oklahoma (assuming they get bradford back and healthy) i think they'd get smashed.
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If OSU would have won this past weekend, I would have bet on Toledo to win straight up. It's a trap game (playing in state, big crowd of mostly your fans and a "weak" MAC team). But with them losing, the dogs will be out to crush the next team on the schedule.
I set the over/under at 160 for total points the Boilermakers, Buffalo, and the Buckeyes would score against Toledo. I took the over. I'm close.
Nah, I'm not going. And I have NO reason why. I should be going. My parents still live in the area, it's within driving distance, and it's a once in a decade game. I'll be back in Chicago renting a motorcycle and then going to the Bears/Steelers game.
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
Quote:
If OSU would have won this past weekend, I would have bet on Toledo to win straight up. It's a trap game (playing in state, big crowd of mostly your fans and a "weak" MAC team). But with them losing, the dogs will be out to crush the next team on the schedule.
Good point, but it still scares me.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
Nothing to worry about, you're playing for the Big Ten title now. Losing this game means nothing to you guys (outisde of pride and rankings). As someone said above even if you win every game 49-0 the rest of the way, a one-loss SEC, Big 12 or Pac-10 team will be ahead of you in the rankings. The only other teams you can beat to make you look good are PS and Michigan (should they keep winning). Win all your Big Ten games and go to a BCS bowl. Just make sure you win Tressel.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
Quote:
Nothing to worry about, you're playing for the Big Ten title now. Losing this game means nothing to you guys (outisde of pride and rankings). As someone said above even if you win every game 49-0 the rest of the way, a one-loss SEC, Big 12 or Pac-10 team will be ahead of you in the rankings.
The only other teams you can beat to make you look good are PS and Michigan (should they keep winning).
Win all your Big Ten games and go to a BCS bowl. Just make sure you win Tressel.
But 2 losses in those conferences would not. 
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
Ha ha ha....I wouldn't hold your breath. An undefeated BYU or BSU would trump a one-loss team too. OSU would have been on cruise-control had they won (outside of the trip into Happy Valley). Oh well. Good luck this week OSU....you're gonna need it.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
I forgot about those guys,....  ,...but hey, if they go undefeated, it is what it is.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
Ha ha ha....I wouldn't hold your breath. An undefeated BYU or BSU would trump a one-loss team too.
OSU would have been on cruise-control had they won (outside of the trip into Happy Valley). Oh well.
Good luck this week OSU....you're gonna need it.
I agree on BYU...their schedule matches up favorably and they should go to the Nat'l champ game over a 1-loss team from a BCS conference this year....I would NOT agree with Boise. The WAC is weaker than the MWC in the first place and BYU scheduled a tougher OOC as well. Boise just doesn't play a tough enough schedule to get themselves into a Nat'l Champ game picture.
And they might be fighting Houston for the BCS spot if BYU loses a game (Utah and TCU are not chumps and BYU has to play both still along with Florida State this weekend)
#gmstrong
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