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I know it was only one game, and I know that our rookies will only improve, but even coming into this year I was concerned about our #2 WR. I don't think Cribbs will ever be able to become a starting receiver in this league. Plus, Furrey was invisible yesterday! I totally forgot about him until midway through the 3rd quarter when I asked everybody where he was. As for Robiskie, I'm a little bit concerned that he doesn't even see the FIELD as our #2 pick in the draft! That's not a good sign IMO...same goes for MoMass (even though I feel he has made better strides thus far).
Am I being too concerned after one game? It just seemed to me that our receivers were having trouble getting open (along with Quinn's subpar performance). I feel this is another weakness
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Good topic, been wondering that myself.
You watch Cowboys highlights from yesterday and they seem to have guys catching balls all over the place. We don't have that luxury.
Cribbs is not a wideout... he can be dangerous on O but a #2 he IS NOT.
Furrey's a slot/JJ kind of player.
I'd like to get MassQ some reps with the 1st team.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong ----------------- 2023: The year we got a legit D.
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It seemed to me that MoMass did get some quality time yesterday. It just looked like none of our WRs could get open.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I saw his catch... other than that didn't notice him.
Mind you, we didn't have the ball for most of the third quarter and it didn't seem we had it much in the 4th, either.
gmstrong ----------------- 2023: The year we got a legit D.
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it'd be unfair to blame the wrs when the camera doesn't show what happened downfield.
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You could say that about BQ not throwing downfield more often.
Couldn't ya???
gmstrong ----------------- 2023: The year we got a legit D.
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you definitely could. if i couldn't, i'd be much more upset.
don't want to say nething baout quinn in this thread. we know there are more than enough threads for that.
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You'll never see Robo on the field as a #2, doesnt have the ability. I'm hopeful that either Cribbs or MoMass can become the number 2. Furrey is old and slow, hes still probably the #4 on the team. I'd like to see Cribbs in the slot more, and put MoMass outside.
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Legend
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So in reality what you're saying is this...
In the future, our staff is envisioning the following for our WRs
#1 Braylon Edwards
#2 Mohammed Massaquoi
#3/slot Brian Robiskie
#4 Josh Cribbs
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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It's painfully obvious that Cribbs is not a WR and probably never will be. That's why by the end of the game, they were using Robo, Furrey, and Edwards. Cribbs is a good gimmick player, but he is very little outside of that. It's why he didn't get a new contract, it's why he's nothing more than a special teams player *albeit the best special teams player in the NFL.*
It's time to start using MoMass in the #2 spot, he has better hands, runs better routes and is bigger than Cribbs.
you had a good run Hank.
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Quote:
So in reality what you're saying is this...
In the future, our staff is envisioning the following for our WRs
#1 Braylon Edwards
#2 Mohammed Massaquoi
#3/slot Mike Furrey
#4 Josh Cribbs
Ya didn't ask me, but that's how I see it playing out, for 2009.
Last edited by lampdogg; 09/14/09 01:23 PM.
gmstrong ----------------- 2023: The year we got a legit D.
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i'd say it's edwards, momass, furrey, robiskie, cribbs. at least for the first 6 games. hopefully by then, robo catches on. furrey isn't as shifty as a welker but he has solid hands and understands coverages.
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Legend
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ahhhhhhhhhhhhh... Sorry dong, forgot Furrey for a moment, so edited my own post.
IMO Robo is for 2010 unless he surprises me.
gmstrong ----------------- 2023: The year we got a legit D.
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Quote:
ahhhhhhhhhhhhh... Sorry dong, forgot Furrey for a moment, so edited my own post.
IMO Robo is for 2010 unless he surprises me.
agreed. we were all scratching our heads with two receivers picked in teh 2nd round but really, now, i don't know about you but i'm relieved that we also took momass.
in mangini and kokinis i trust
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I agree with you about 2009 lamp. there is NO WAY robiskie would be ready to be our slot WR at anytime this year. I was just talking about the future (next year and beyond)
I too was shocked with the two WRs in the 2nd round. If they both pan out, I think it is a GREAT movie. However, I have been under impressed with Robo to this point. As someone stated in a different post, maybe we would have been better off taking a RT /defensive player and then MoMass
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Hey, they can't get any separation but they are hard workers, had great interviews and can block...what else did you expect from them? under 4.6 speed? hands? toughness? cracking the starting lineup with basically no competition to beat? Cmon, they are only rookies *coddle*  Meanwhile Collie (4th round) caught 2 passes from P.Manning yesterday and will probably trusted into a starting job with Gonzo out...that's why teh colts are the colts and the Browns are the Browns or what about Knox (5th) catching 2 passes for 82yds from Cutler on SN? Wallace in PIT?
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As much as I love Cribbs he is nothing more than a gadget guy.....he isnt a number 2 wr....his place is special teams, and gadget plays.....I wouldnt be against putting him in as RB and see what he can do in the backfield...but him being our number 2 is an aweful idea....I want either mo mass, or furry to be our number 2....robo "the most polished nfl ready wr in this draft" needs to get his head out of his but and step up.....I think our WR should be in this order
Edwards, Mo Mass, Furry, Robo, Cribbs.....and if Mangini doesnt feel good about our wr core isnt there some guy named Harrison who doesnt have a team wondering around on the FA market?
We shouldnt of gotten rid of K2!!! Royal is garbage!
#brownsgoodkarma
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After watching Braylon's lack of hustle, I would be in favor of benching him. He seemed flat and uninspired. Randy Moss in Oak-esque. Perhaps a reality check benching is needed to wake him up.
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Braylon Edwards is the best player this offense has, with a possible exception of good DA, or if Jamal has a good day, and that should be obvious, he doesn't need benched .
The number 2 wide receiver? ASK Brian Daboll !
Madden said the Cowboys are the best at running a flag, adjust to post route, deep over the middle right down the middle to put the safety on his heels. The packers ran it. The Eagles do, The Bears do. The Browns never run it.
Perhaps it might not be the player but the way they are used. Maybe Anderson can line up at wideout, while Edwards lines up at fullback, fakes a dive up the middle and catches a pass from Quinn.
It has been a down road since the departure of Quincy Morgan, Andre Davis, Dennis Northcutt, Antonio Bryant, Joe Jurevicious, and Kevin Johnson. I wonder why Tim Carter didn't work out, I think he's better than Leggit.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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I do wonder how Cribbs would take to pass protection... Because as a third down back, that would be a legit role. You know we trust him to run a draw, and catching a dumpoff pass in space might be the perfect use for him.
Unfortunatley, we need recievers. That said, Id have given Furrey the start at no2. Just as a matter of team cohesion l, Edwards isn't exactly providing that veteran steadying effect - and Cribbs deffinetly can't.
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I'm up for MoMass getting the job.
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I think I'd have to agree with you, he's been a nice surprise to me... very intrigued Robo didn't pull ahead of him (to this point)
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The question i have had, is cribbs any more expierienced at WR than our rookie WR's that have hundereds of snaps and practices rout running in college? I love cribbs, and he is a beast in special teams. I would hate to see him hurt or gassed to make a key play downfield in the 4th quarter because he is playing WR all game.
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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Quote:
I know it was only one game, and I know that our rookies will only improve, but even coming into this year I was concerned about our #2 WR.
You have just given a good reason to not overreact.. at least not at this point. See me in two weeks.. if things haven't improved,, then there is something to the concern... I'm just not ready to go there yet..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Cribbs is not a wideout... he can be dangerous on O but a #2 he IS NOT.
I wish all the Homers would read that, Lampy.
Cribbs can do some things within the constructs of our offense. Running routes outside of screens, slips, and Wildcats are not viable options for him. They sure as Hell aren't going to help Quinn go down the field
My opinion of our #2's are that if we aren't trying to throw them the ball, we won't know if they are any good.
A leads to B leads to C.
A) Daboll didn't trust Quinn enough to let him throw downfield very often to any receivers not named Edwards.
B) Without passes going downfield, we as fans can't see enough on TV to know if they are getting open, and if they can actually play.
C) So the problem isn't necessarily with the receivers, but with Daboll and Quinn.
I'd also then say that expecting two rookie wideouts taken in the 2nd round to be NFL-ready is overly optimistic. Unlike Quinn, they don't have enough film-time or practice/camp time to really be ready for what they'll see when it's time for live bullets.
The bottom line is that they can't catch the ball if Quinn isn't throwing it to them, and he can't do that unless Daboll lets him do it. The question is why that didn't happen, and whether or not it'll happen against the Donks.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Meanwhile Collie (4th round) caught 2 passes from P.Manning yesterday and will probably trusted into a starting job with Gonzo out...that's why teh colts are the colts and the Browns are the Browns
or what about Knox (5th) catching 2 passes for 82yds from Cutler on SN? Wallace in PIT?
Manning, Roethlisberger, Cutler, Quinn.
Which of those names does not belong 
Using two Super Bowl contenders with established pro-bowl caliber QB's and another pro-bowl caliber QB on another contender with Quinn and this offense isn't just comparing apples and oranges, it's comparing meatballs to windex
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Did you see Cutler play last weekend ??
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Did you see Cutler play the last two years?
Keep it context, Water. 
Cutler, Berger, and Manning are established NFL QB's who know how to get the ball downfield.
Quinn is none of those things ("yet" just so you Homers can't go on a tangent  ), ergo suggesting that our rookie WR's aren't any good compared to those teams rookie WR's is flawed logic.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The beginning Of last year I thought he was one of the best around , then he seemed to get " Dis-con-bubilated " .. He really sucked against GB ... Like in all things , time will tell .. 
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I will say that it did seem that the Vikings had pretty darn good coverage down the field. It didn't seem to me that Quinn checked down too quickly. It just seemed that the Vikes had guys locked down on the deeper routes. Since they were able to get some pressure with just their front 4, they had a lot of guys back.
I will say, though, that there were times that Quinn had some time, and he dumped off. How many times have we seen opposing teams' QBs just sit in the pocket because we couldn't get to them. They don't dump off, they wait for their WRs to adjust their routes and find the openings. It seems our offense didn't do that.
Quinn wouldn't be patient enough and our WRs weren't getting to the holes. Now, that might be something that will come with time and experience playing together.
Does that mean Quinn is totally off the hook, or that the WRs were totally at fault, or Daboll gets a free pass? No. They all share the rather sizeable blame, some more than others.
But, if our WRs are getting open, but Quinn is afraid to throw downfield, then we should really start to wonder.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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To the point of whether it's the receivers, the QB, or the system, let's make it very clear that Edwards was thrown to 5 times. He ended up with 1 catch.
I guess those other teams rookie WR's are better than Edwards, too.
It looked to me that the TE's and shorter guys were the primaries. Again, I think it's a case of Daboll not trusting Quinn. That's probably a combination of playing the Vikings, Quinn being a younger QB, and his arm not being exceptionally accurate downfield.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The atvantage of being at the game and seeing the whole field  .. You just can't tell on the boob tube if guys are getting open down field .. Still don't think Cribbs is the # 2 guy ...
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Even the morons sitting around me had to admit that our WRs were covered very well downfield. If anything, that may have opened it up for more out of the backfield passes and dinking and dunking. Send all our WRs long, clear out the middle of the field, and march down the field that way.
A TE like Winslow would have had a field day. Granted, he would have cost us more yards on penalties, but he likely would have had a lot of catches. I won't be surprised to see Heiden get some more PT this week. He's not the fastest guy, but he does catch the ball pretty darn well.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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What we know.. 1) We have a QB with less than a handful of starts, and only half the reps in TC during the "competition" 2) We have a #1 WR notorious for dropping passes. Talented as he may be, he doesn't strike complete fear in defenses, especially considering #1 3) We don't seem to have a true #2, and of the 2 or 3 options we do have, none have proven to be anything for D's to get worked up about. 4) We have yet to prove to anyone we can run the ball consistently. 5) While the left side of our line seems to hold up fine the right side is weak, and limits our options. 6) Our OC seems to like following trends (the wildcat package), but apparently doesn't know how to use them effectively (2x at the goal line, to the right side ) 7) Our D seems to have ability, but not consistency. 8) The entire team still seems to lack confidence, and when things start to turn bad, they hang their heads and seem to dig themselves even deeper. 9) it's only 1 game, and after seeing many games this weekend, I'm convinced most, if not all the teams seemed less than ready this week. The expected "good" teams even seem to struggle some.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Not a Royal fan ... Would like to see Rucker get some time ..
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Last night during the MNF Chargers/Raiders, Steve Young even said that it takes a game or two during the regular season to really get on the same page.
Now, there are some teams that their guys looked sharp from the beginning. Frankly, that's the way it SHOULD be. But it seemed that there were quite a few QBs who really struggled week 1.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
Quote:
Cribbs is not a wideout... he can be dangerous on O but a #2 he IS NOT.
I wish all the Homers would read that, Lampy.
Cribbs can do some things within the constructs of our offense. Running routes outside of screens, slips, and Wildcats are not viable options for him. They sure as Hell aren't going to help Quinn go down the field
My opinion of our #2's are that if we aren't trying to throw them the ball, we won't know if they are any good.
A leads to B leads to C.
A) Daboll didn't trust Quinn enough to let him throw downfield very often to any receivers not named Edwards.
B) Without passes going downfield, we as fans can't see enough on TV to know if they are getting open, and if they can actually play.
C) So the problem isn't necessarily with the receivers, but with Daboll and Quinn.
I'd also then say that expecting two rookie wideouts taken in the 2nd round to be NFL-ready is overly optimistic. Unlike Quinn, they don't have enough film-time or practice/camp time to really be ready for what they'll see when it's time for live bullets.
The bottom line is that they can't catch the ball if Quinn isn't throwing it to them, and he can't do that unless Daboll lets him do it. The question is why that didn't happen, and whether or not it'll happen against the Donks.
I wasn't at the game. Did you get the chance to go to the stadium or did you get the same look I did by watching on tv?
I ask because it is possible that the reason he didn't throw downfield more is because the recievers just couldn't get open. I would much rather him take the checkdown then force something that isn't there.
I don't know the answer because I can't see the WR run routes while sitting on my couch. Maybe someone who went to the game can shed some light on this.
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See my post a few up. It did seem to me that our WRs were very well covered downfield.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Thank you.
If that was indeed the case then I don't blame Quinn for not throwing to the WR. A good QB will move the ball and not care who he is throwing to. Just hit the open target. That's just an example of a QB making smart decisions with the football. Which is something we have all heard about Quinn.
Now that said the accuracy issue is a bit troublesome. I hope to see improvement in that area.
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Toad, you didn't get my point and maybe I wasn't clear enough....those rookie-WRs (add Murphy to the list with "hero" Russell throwing to him) actually WERE on the field, Robo and Massa WERE NOT....they were deemed good enough on teams with more competition at the position (ok, scratch Murphy here)...
MoMass had what? a handfull of snaps in garbage time? Robo? I didn't see him on 1 single offensive play...they are buried on the depth chart behind a post draft FA-afterthought and a gadget-WR....it's not looking good early on with our 2nd rounders when 3 2nd day guys contribute more then them....
Robo shouldn't have been active last game being short at RB (only 2 with Davis coming from a car crash)...only Cartman's ego made him dress...he got almost caught on yet another stupid outsmart move (what if Lewis could not have resumed playing after the helmet hit?)....the moron dresses only 2 RBs and 2 TEs but 5 (!) WRs yet ran esclusively multiple 2 TE or 2 WR sets and it wasn't just before the 4th Qtr before we saw a handful of 3WR+ sets...makes sense, doesn't it?
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