DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Brian Daboll, our offensive philosophy, and the WCO

I've read alot of posts about how bad Dabolls play calling was sunday. With all the the threads going after Quinn, I think the even bigger issue sunday was Daboll.

I really believed going into the offseason we would be more of a WCO type offense. We looked like a WCO in the preseason and then come opening day, we turn into the Miami Dolphins. We have Quinn, whose strength is supposed to be short to medium passes combined with a WCO system I would think we would have tried to get a rhythm going with the offense yesterday.

It seemed every drive was either shotgun 4 WR, and just pass every down, or the 3 back wishbone sets and just run. I was very upset with how Daboll used formations, and how imbalanced he was calling pays. We didnt pass out of a run formation practically all day, and the tea cup shotgun formation seemed to work well, and we completely abandoned it after the 2nd qtr.

I have heard alot of how Daboll didnt trust Quinn, and this seems to puzzle me. if they dont trust him, dont play him. but you started him so lets see him swim or sink. You get into the redzone twice, and all you do is run the ball, and then try the wildcat 2 yards away?

Quinn seemed to execute Dabolls offense quite well in the preseason, then come the regular season, we see nether the same offense, nor the same production.

We ran screens so well this preseason, and the only screens attempted sunday were 2 WR screens on rollouts. And one to Jamal Lewis. We did run the slip screen that we ran 10 times against the titans. Why? I just didnt get it, with their aggressive DL, and out OL's mobility, I kept waiting for a screen to Jamal or James Davis in the shotgun packages.

We ran the ball quite well, but failed to use play action nearly all day. We rarely passed out of the run formations utilizing the running games success. When your running the ball well outta the 2 TE set, play action from that formation should work well, instead we would run for 5 yards, then come out in the 4WR gun.

I wonder was Daboll just out thinking himself alittle, or this stuff gonna be our "scheme" all season. It really felt liek we just abandoned everything we done in the preseason.

my problem with the 2 plays of wildcat in the endzone was one of them wasn't a passing play.. had Cribbs passed one after it looked like he was going to run it, i think we would have scored.

The mans play calling was abysmal to say the least ..

I think Daboll sucked at calling plays....it looked like that one friend everyone has who uses the same plays in madden over and over again....then gets mad when you catch on to what he is trying to do.....keep Cribbs on special teams, gadget plays, and the occasional wildcat.......Mo Mass or furry need to be the number 2 because cribbs isnt that man!

If this is the best Daboll brings to the table then he simply isnt good enough! time for Mangini to fire this bum before he cost us the whole season with his "Madden on rookie difficulty" playcalling

Daboll coached like a Chud clone. No creativity, nothing unexpected, always predictable, running the ball up the middle on 2nd and 10...over and over again....that's what we got all day long. They played offense defensively. They played not to lose. That was the Chudsinsky/Crennel method of game planning and play calling. It's the same thing we saw on Sunday.

Disgusting.

i don't think daboll was conservative at all. the execution was too conservative.

That was his first game as an OC.. Give it a little more time than one game and lets see how he develops.. Hopefully he'll improve..

Conservative or not...it was predictable.

I hope people asked Mangini about Daboll's crappiness in the press conference. The other stuff can be corrected.

Why didn't we hire an OC with experience, like Ryan? That experience showed in the team's defensive schemes.

it really wasn't. what was predictable was that the ball was going to be a check down to the te or rb.

Got a question for ya ; Where you at the game ??

he is right, if you see game with "i want to see DA play" eyes

no i wasn't. that's why i'm cutting quinn more slack than you can tell. it's for the same reason that there shouldn't be this much flack on daboll.

that said, i also know that, of his 35 pass attempts, 30 of them have been classified as "short" (nfl.com play-by-play). i find it difficult to believe that receivers were not open in at least 15 of those attempts when, when quinn did target receivers, his throws were not on the mark of what could've been great plays.i'll cite the same 4 plays again:

1) edwards had a step in man coverage, ball was underthrown, and made a sick catch
2) edwards had the quick slant, ball was thrown behind him
3) edwards was open, edwards had to dive at an overthrown ball.
4) on the int, edwards (whether correctly or not) read to cut inside where he had an easy catch.

further, the times when we did take shots down the field, the ball sailed past the sidelines.

here's what it comes down to: we mixed formations, we mixed run and pass. we also mixed in the flash package with cribbs. those were all pretty good. it's not like a carthon calling where it was run, run, pass. we mixed it up and clearly had some success in the first half. when you can count the number of targets to your top receiver with the fingers on one hand, and the completions with one finger, execution is the problem because on the four plays i pointed out alone, there were easy to average-difficulty completions there.

When watching the game on the Tube , I really can't tell if receivers are getting open down field or not .. I can't say for sure if the QB is going through his reads or not ..

I know one thing for sure...

I wouldn't be saddened ONE BIT if i NEVER saw us run a shotgun draw EVER AGAIN

That play makes me angry more than any other play

... and I really think that is by design on the Vikings' part. I was at the game and took notice of the pre-snap alignments of their safeties. I don't recall ever seeing a single-safety configuration to their defensive backfield (might have been a few I missed, but if they went single-safety, it sure wasn't very often). Looked pretty Tampa-2-ish to me and there just wasn't alot available in the mid-to-deep passing zones. Their defense had those areas pretty clogged up.

The Vikings DBs played very well. They were very organized back there and seemed to communicate well with one another. They weren't out of position very often at all. Very impressive IMO.

I agree,

I am not denying BQ played horrible game, but I also question Dabol…. Specially when u call 2 consecutive plays with cribs inside 5 yard line and don’t show any confidence in your QB, RB and WRs

As Donavon Mcnabb said you have to get your base offence going early, specially you are establishing your new qb, center and offence.

Just would like to be lil more patient ....

It was well publicized during pre-season that the QB can change plays at the line of scrimmage based on what he sees.

Marty Schottenheimer once said that play calling is over rated. He was right. Execution cures all ills.

i'm not saying he didn't make mistakes but philosophy, he wasn't conservative. that point is also being thrown around as if it handcuffed quinn, which i don't believe.

Name 3 things that .... nevermind.


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With all do respect to Brian Daboll, Name 3 reasons the Browns are not dominating.

DC,

We talked about that all the way home today.

It's a big if...but...IF...we don't commit two of those offensive penalties and IF the ball does not squirt out of BQ's hand (and the pass goes to the wide open Heiden 15 yards downfield) then this becomes a "gritty" performance - still a loss I believe - but the sky would not likely be falling.

We CAN cut back on the false starts...the ball will not regularly squirt out of BQs hand on a perfect day for football. We won't face a team like MN every week. Every game the offense gets more cohesive...etc.

I'm not happy about the loss nor how we played...because we can be better.

So the silver lining becomes that we CAN be better...and I really think we WILL get better.

We are going to beat the bad teams...lose to the very good teams...and win a tweener game or two while maybe steeling (pun?) one we should lose. It's a long season.

This hand-wringing after game one with (6) new starters on offense and 3/5th of the OL being new against a consensus Super Bowl contender is...silly.

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This hand-wringing after game one with (6) new starters on offense and 3/5th of the OL being new against a consensus Super Bowl contender is...silly.

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Yet we'll see at least 5 more days of it this week.

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To those ripping Chud, where there not folks talking what a smart guy he was when we were scoring points?

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It wasn't that the plays chud called couldnt work, they did early on. But the true test for an OC is once teams can plan for what you like to do. Chud never adusted and didnt know what to do when his 5-7 money plays couldnt work. He and DA were made for each other, neither adjusted a lick to what defenses were doing to us.

IMO we dont have as much talent on defense as on offense, yet our defense played very well. A big part of that is Rob Ryan, you can just tell by looking at our defense thats its much more organized and disciplined. It shows when you have a good coordinator that knows what hes doing.

Im not so sure Daboll does, I think hes in between. Instead of running and passing out of the same formations, its like he wants to run out of one package and throw out of another, and that makes it easy for defense.

Quinn is a separate issue, being discussed in 42 other threads.

I agree, I saw 4 or 5 runs on obvious pass downs, if the browns were a much better run team, or playing against a weak team against the run, I could see the reasoning, but I thought the playcall was too conservative.

Daboll's playcalling was straight up TERRIBLE.

Who in the hell runs a gimmick play in the SHOTGUN from the HALF YARD LINE????

Sneak the damn ball. You mean to tell me you can't get a half yard push? Instead choosing to run 2 gimmick plays in a row?

And is it just me, or did we run 10 draw plays? And not a single screen pass, which was all we ran in the preseason?

Awful. That was the biggest disappointment in that game. The play selection.

It sure seemed like every other play was a draw. We even tried a play that looked like the option, it was a shovel pass, but Quinn rolled out with Davis like an option play. On third and 8???

Daboll was out thinking himself, throw the ball on 3rd down, run the ball in with the RB on the goal line.

I think Quinn had a bad game, and I think it was partially due to Dabolls horrific game plan and play calling. He never allowed Quinn to get comfortable early and get into any kind of rhythm. He left his OL and Quinn out to dry by making it obvious by his formation choices what we were doing.

He didnt utilize our running success by calling play action passes out of run formations, which is Offensive Coordinator 101.

Its just not a good combo to have no experience in your OC and QB...that is a recipe for disaster.

The playcalling was horrible. Most at the game agreed. Since the Browns came back they have had nothing in regards to OCs with experiance and that the Browns are still not good inside the Red Zone shows why you need an OC with experiance. Daboll didnt even look like he was calling a play to set up the next play.

Worst call of the day, Cribbs on the 2nd wildcat play. That play took too long to develop against a team known for its run D. They better figure it out before Pittsburgh and Baltimore. It might have worked in practice when Rogers was on a stationary bike.

It doesnt help Daboll when the right side of the line is horrible. Most of the effective running plays were to the left and the pocket was collapsing on the right alot on passing plays.

j/c...


The play-calling was almost as if he had "Playbook Tourette's" - it seemed as if he was just randomly blurting out insane things for them to run.

There appeared to be no rhyme, reason, cohesion or coherency to any of it.

I was willing to give Mangini the benefit of the doubt.

Seriously. A coach being run out of town gets a new chance. He has a fairly sharp football mind and gets a new chance with a team that has more talent than it's 4-12 record would indicate.

Blank slate. You can bring in ANYONE you want. Just pick him.

And the best you can do is Brian Daboll?

I figured this guy must have something. You know, one of those diamond-in-the-rough type guys that come around every so often. But holy God...this is bad.

He looks every bit like a guy who has never called plays in his entire career. He looks every bit an OC who has no idea what he is doing. His game planning and play vcalling has been some of the worst I have EVER seen. And that's saying a lot. We've had front row seats to some mystifyingly (yes, that's a word) bad OC'ing in our 10 years of reincarnation. But this is, without question, the worst we've seen.

Hey Eric Mangini. You might not get another chance to steer an NFL ship again. You are a difficult guy to play for and players don't like you. We are already taking heat from players (and their agants) about not wanting to play here because of you. Winning can overcome that (see: Coughlin), but a miserably difficult coach that is coaching a laughingstock is not gonna be good for business.

You, my friend are on an increasingly hot seat...already. Do you really want to hitch your offensive wagon to a guy who, up til now, seems like someone who couldn't play Madden?

Daboll will be gone by the bye week, no way EM can put up with him much more. He has zero grasp of how to effectively run an offense through a game. His formations are puzzling, its like watching Mo, only instead of always running a 3TE strong I set, we always are in the shotgun.

Sure Quinn is terrible, but some of the plays and sets we run, if we had a good QB, he would laugh at Daboll the sideline.

The offensive play calling was terrible and predictable yesterday. Daboll doesn't seem to go back to the things that actually do work for us. Everytime we ran it was the same formation with Royal and a Guard pulling. EVERYTIME!!

The play calling was terrible, and the execution was even worse. Mangini has to do something about this or we are (and probably are anyway) stairing at a top 5 draft pick again.

It's like they're trying to be too tricky. Like their thought process is "lets run the Wildkat again. It's so stupid they'll HAVE to be surprised by it!"

This HAS to get better.

Why, did you think that there was rhyme or reason to the play calling, or do you think that the playcalling gives a bad name to Tourrette's?