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Does Quinn need more time? If we had seen any sign at all that he has what it takes, it would be hard to argue that he doesn't. But has there been a worse string of 3 games put together by any QB that anyone recalls? I can't think of one.
DA's open to last season was pretty terrible but I don't think anyone is arguing that Brady hasn't been terrible. My only point is that we either have the franchise QB on the roster in Quinn or we don't have one. I want to find out which that is... I've seen enough of DA to know that it's not him and I'm MUCH more about building for the future than winning another game or two this year.
We're... we're good?
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i respect your opinion but disagree. the offense is just too limited with quinn in and the team clearly do not believe in him, exhibited by ST and defense play.
that said, at least you're sticking to your guns. a lot of quinn homers jumped ship the past couple weeks. at least you're consistent.
Haha, I'm not a Quinn homer, I actually would've flipped if we took Quinn at #5 in 2007. I'm just of the opinion that, since we have the guy, let's see what he is... I won't defend his play all that much, but I have to believe he can do better than what he's shown thus far. I don't blame the team for not believing in Quinn, I wouldn't after his performances either. However, I also think that there's still a possibility he improves. Given that he doesn't even have a half-season of games under his belt, I think he deserves that chance.
We're... we're good?
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I know I've seen him pout on the sidelines and to the media when things aren't going his way. Please explain to me how "whining" is a leadership quality?
Link please? Or wait, that is just your opinion of what you think you saw on your TV.
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Two full seasons worth of games into someone's career and they're still exhibiting the same characteristics that they displayed throughout both high school and college... this usually indicates a pattern.
How many QB's arre the finished product after two years? Are you saying he hasn't improved at all since high school---cuz that my friend is BS. No HS QB makes it in the NFL. And also, what are these Characteristics?
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Year 1, for half of it, up until teams figured out they could take away the deep ball. Year 2... he had a 66 QB rating. How unbelievably low do your standards have to be to say that isn't bad? An AVERAGE rating is over 80.
Again, he has been QB two years, one year he was great, the other the entire organization crumbled around him. Can't fault him for that.
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Look up the correlation between wins in the NFL and turnover differential. It's preposterous how good your odds of winning are when you win the turnover battle. Then, realize that the guy you're touting creates 1-3 of those every single game. This is why I don't like DA as a franchise QB. He makes a ton of plays for both teams. I want my QB more concerned about protecting the ball.
Good luck finding a QB who isn't going to make mistakes his first few years in the league. All QB's throw int's, it's the nature of the game. Favre has the record for int's and he has a freaking ring. Something that we don't have. Pittsburgh has six, so if I gotta go with a franchise QB who tosses picks but can get me one ring---I take it.
Or you can just keep going through QB's until you find one that is the embodiment of Christ and never throws a pick.
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He is a QB... he's just not consistent enough to be a great one.
Yea, a whole year and a half is enough to make that judgement, especially after the first year when he was in the top 5 QB's in the league.
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I don't care if he has the arm to make all the throws, I want it done consistently.
And it will get done if you give him time to develop. Given his abilities when he first came out, he sure as heck has a solid skill set to work with. He has shown 10000000000x more promise than any other QB on the roster---so why are we screwing around with BQ?
Don't get it.
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4 years of high school. 4 years of college. 5 years in the pros. 2 years worth of NFL games played and he's STILL the same QB. He's 26 and has a career QB rating of 73.7.
You know, Eli's rating was prolly below that his first two years in the league, and he has a ring also---and I would call him a stud QB---I would sure take him on this team. Hell, Brees rating was prolly pretty rough his first year to two years as well. Saying he hasn't improved in areas of his game since HS is complete BS. You didn't even know who he was in HS. And he would not have started in college or the NFL had he not been able to learn and make strides in his game.
Bottomline, with his performances over the past couple years, he deserves to be the guy. He has shown improvement over his career, and I believe he is the right guy to spend the next two seasons with.
Quinn has done nothing to warrant taking another snap.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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i had no intentions of implying you were a quinn homer, i just meant a lot of other guys who clearly were either jumped ship or stopped posting altogether even though they still log on to read everything (you know you who you are).
it's not easy to have the unpopular opinion (i would know) so i respect what you're saying. totally disagree, but i respect it.
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Does Quinn need more time? If we had seen any sign at all that he has what it takes, it would be hard to argue that he doesn't. But has there been a worse string of 3 games put together by any QB that anyone recalls? I can't think of one.
Of course you can't think of one. You don't want to because that doesn't help your case against Quinn. I'm pretty sure if you look back you find a lot of bad football from our QB's.
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i don't want to interject myself into more mindless qb squabble but i'm sure quinn has set a new low.
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If you read DA's scouting report coming out of college, it'll tell you that he has a cannon for an arm that allows him to make any throw on the field, that he's inaccurate, wildly inconsistent and has a penchant for turnovers, that he struggles in the short game and has poor pocket presence. Nothing has changed since then except for minor improvements.
I understand what you want, believe me. If DA could turn it around, with an arm like that, he could be a fantastic QB. He certainly has that potential, but the point I was trying to make is that he'll never reach it because he doesn't grow much as a player. His time in the sun was when teams didn't realize that shutting off the deep ball destroyed him. Heck, I realized it multiple games before Baltimore finally revealed him and turned him back into a pumpkin. If teams played Brady deep on every play, he'd dominate too, but that just doesn't happen with good teams. Wishing the pumpkin would turn back can't make it happen.
Even if DA would be an improvement over Quinn now, he's never going to be much more than a high 70s low 80s QB unless he revolutionizes his game, which just doesn't seem like it's going to happen. I at least want to see where Quinn's game maxes out. If this is it, kick him to the curb and move on. As of right now though, the sample size is just far too small to make that judgment. You say DA's is too small, but Brady has played in 1/4 of the games DA has. It's time for his shot.
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it's not easy to have the unpopular opinion (i would know) so i respect what you're saying. totally disagree, but i respect it.
That works for me, it's not that easy to defend a guy who came in relief and threw 3 picks in a half either, so I'll give you some credit as well. 
We're... we're good?
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it'll be easier next week. just you wait n see the bar has been set pretty low. 
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it'll be easier next week. just you wait n see the bar has been set pretty low.
Yep, definitely easier to defend the guy sitting on the bench.  If the bar is set any lower in the coming weeks, I think it would just have to be called the floor.
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Nothing has changed since then except for minor improvements.
He played a year and a half. And he played well in games both years, bad sometimes too. I think he has improved in facets of his game and deserves to be the starter.
And it sn't just as simple as "teams figured him out," if that was the case he would have been dead in the water last year---and he wasn't. He still had a couple great games.
At leat when DA got him opportunity you could see the potential from the start.
With BQ there is nothing. He was a bad pick coming out of college and it is now coming to fruition.
We need to stick with DA. He is the best guy for the job, now and ten weeks from now.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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i don't want to interject myself into more mindless qb squabble but i'm sure quinn has set a new low.
Only because he's the most resent. Here is a list of former QB's since '99 that were just as bad, or worse than Quinn.
Bruce Gradowski
Josh Booty
Luke McCown
Charlie Frye
Ken Dorsey
Doug Peterson
Spergon Wynn
Ty Detmer
Trent Dilfer
Tim Couch
Kelly Holcomb
Jeff Garcia
Pick any one of those guys and I'm sure they had some bad games.
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The coaches have to find out whats going on with Brady so they know what direction to go..after 3 games they have to adjust something..perhaps move him around in the pocket..I would say shotgun but that depends on Mack getting the snaps down.
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i don't want to interject myself into more mindless qb squabble but i'm sure quinn has set a new low.
Only because he's the most resent. Here is a list of former QB's since '99 that were just as bad, or worse than Quinn.
Bruce Gradowski
Josh Booty
Luke McCown
Charlie Frye
Ken Dorsey
Doug Peterson
Spergon Wynn
Ty Detmer
Trent Dilfer
Tim Couch
Kelly Holcomb
Jeff Garcia
Pick any one of those guys and I'm sure they had some bad games.
you forgot to put DA in that list too.... 
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with exception to gradkowski and dorsey, the rest have completed nfl passes and scored tds.
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with exception to gradkowski and dorsey, the rest have completed nfl passes and scored tds.
Are you saying Quinn hasn't? I remember he did pretty well last year until the injury. Stop acting like Quinn hasn't done anything. Yeah he's looked like crap THIS year. But that doesn't mean you throw out what he did last year in a short time. Give me a break.
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the only time he did anything was when he was allowed to play his "game" against a 30th ranked donks team. that meant checkdown on every play to k2, who had 10 catches. even when he did that, when the game mattered, with less than a minute to go, he went for 5 straight dump offs, connecting on only one and losing. there were plenty of dropped ints and even his td throw through 3 defenders was a terrible decision that any decent team would've capitalized on.
be frustrated all you want but all you're showing is your emotion taking over for your logic. DA isn't perfect and he'll make mistakes but is still by far the best option. i'm not re-opening past quinn performances just because you weren't here to read all the opinions. fact is quinn sucked and, like any other position, deserves to be benched if he doesn't perform. from the looks of it, the team felt it was long overdue.
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U might as well be speaking to a worm hole , he and Tyler and a bunch of others don't see much beyond what they think..which resembled what the Browns look like.. 
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you really set to take me on again, big boy?
where's your pro-ready scouting now?
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Just some food for thought.
Trent Dilfer, (a big DA guy) defended quinn. He placed blame of the offense design. He blamed lack of down field plays, not on BQ, rather on the designs of the route's, pre-snap motion and shifts. He said watching the coaches film, (all angles, 22 player wide) that they are not calling enough creative deep routes.
He also blamed the offense design for painfully trying to be both ball control run and west-coast, which will not work. If they are going WCO, you have to be check-down pass first offense. With lots of shifts, and motion to create YAC. Taking 4-7 shots a game downfield.
For the way Dilfer blasted the browns for benching DA last year, I dont think he woud sugar coat BQ.
The orange 99 cent stickers will return one day if the fun nazi's allow it.
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Ready to take U on???
Oh my...Iam never afraid to debate anyone if they have a sound argument..
My pro scouting is always ready...it fares a whole lot better than 80% of the bogus crap I see spewed over this forum...and has for years..before U guys knew Ûbout this board..U and the others can make any claim about DA ya want..I already know the outcome..
And right now I still say Quinn has to be looked at and seemed a bust before he's put away..so keep wishing he's this knight in rusting armour(actually he is)..it won't change my mind.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 09/28/09 04:50 PM.
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Legend
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J/C.....
what we've seen this year:
Quinn - he has stunk this year. not methodically moving the ball down the field as we had hoped, missing receivers (both short and long), and taking sacks. also, turning the ball over much more than a "game manager should"
DA - came in the 2nd half down a ton and proceeded to play horribly....throwing into triple coverage, out of sync with WRs, and getting picked off 3 times.
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what we can hope for from each:
Quinn - that it's been more the offense and lack of playmaking from WRs and RBs than Quinn. that if we develop a running game, his playaction will start to work and the midrange game will open up and we will be able to methodically move down the field.
DA - that the Raven game was merely due to being forced into an impossible siutation, that the Giants game last year was the real DA than the rest of last year and that he can figure out how to harness the "good DA" into a more consistent output.
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at this point, I don't believe anyone that thinks they know for certain which QB path we should take right now as neither really seems all to appealing.....and it just looks like we'll be starting our 9th QB in 12 years on opening day in 2010, which is extremely sad and pathetic.
#gmstrong
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Not sure if this is just a rehash of what other people have said (if it is, I'm sorry), but I think Anderson really showed up Quinn this week (even despite the INTs).
Quinn was pulled because he couldn't get the offense going, and then Anderson was able to pick up some yardage with those "covered" receivers. What I liked about what Anderson did was he came in and knew what he wanted to do, and I wish Quinn would have that as well (instead of "looking lost" or "playing scared").
I can forgive 3 picks in a half. Mangini really didn't give Anderson any advanced warning. You can't expect a QB to have everything clicking with his game, let alone timing with the rest of his offense (especially a "turnover prone" QB) in that situation. I really don't fault Anderson for that.
I posted a little while ago that I think having these QB talks are pointless. We saw Anderson (last year) and benched him. We saw Quinn and benched him. Right now we have two very incomplete QBs. Each has glaring weaknesses and each has the potential for growth. You can make the argument that both, given time and reps, can polish their game.
At this point, I would be happy if we said screw this QB competition garbage, and focus on other positions (there are plenty left to address). Taking a QB with our first pick would be a monumental waste when we have so many other needs.
Neither of our QBs are superstars that can carry this team, and no superstar could carry this time anyway.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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yea, keep hiding behind crap statements. 80% of the bogus crap on this forum? irrelevant because your statements were still crap compared to mine. and believe me, i really enjoyed all the PMs i got from other posters, loving our last interaction as well as the new PMs saying i was right all along. say all you want about your posting prior to my joining but all i know is you've either been wrong or you followed the herd. move along lil doggie!
no one here is claiming anything about DA other than he's a better option than quinn and you just can't admit it because of how much you placed your rep in quinn's game.
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I can forgive 3 picks in a half. Mangini really didn't give Anderson any advanced warning.
I can't unless something other than himself caused the picks otherwise he's at fault..and costing the offense.
Regardless of warning ,any player has to be ready to go..what if Quinn was injured??
He'd have to suddenly go in...does that give him a excuse to starting hurling scud missiles everywhere?
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the only time he did anything was when he was allowed to play his "game" against a 30th ranked donks team. that meant checkdown on every play to k2, who had 10 catches. even when he did that, when the game mattered, with less than a minute to go, he went for 5 straight dump offs, connecting on only one and losing. there were plenty of dropped ints and even his td throw through 3 defenders was a terrible decision that any decent team would've capitalized on.
be frustrated all you want but all you're showing is your emotion taking over for your logic. DA isn't perfect and he'll make mistakes but is still by far the best option. i'm not re-opening past quinn performances just because you weren't here to read all the opinions. fact is quinn sucked and, like any other position, deserves to be benched if he doesn't perform. from the looks of it, the team felt it was long overdue.
The end result has been the same with either QB. Loss after loss. Yeah, we MAY win a few extra games with DA. But what good does that really do? Winning meaningless games only hurts our draft position at this point. We are still going to be no better than last year, and then we will still not know for sure about Quinn. This team needs better players. Period. Most of this team just flat out stinks. It's going to take a long time to fix this mess. What is the freakin' hurry to throw in the towel on Quinn? DA is around the same age as Quinn. It's not like we are going to miss any window of opportunity letting Quinn work his way out of this funk. There IS no training in the NFL that could help him more than playing him. Good or bad. I mean Christ. 2 of the 3 games he's playing against top 5 defenses. Defenses that make 10 year vets look bad.
If Quinn continues to play like this, then of course you have to pull him. But NOT after 3 games. If by the end of the year Quinn does manage to get better, then you have a big problem with who you go with in 2010. If Quinn falters this year (I would give him 10 games no matter what). Then you have to think of going with DA in 2010, and getting rid of Quinn.
Some QB's take longer to get it. I know Quinn was not supposed to be like that. But it is. We have to deal with it. I'm not saying we have to keep Quinn forever to see. But you have to give him at least 10 games this year. DA is not going to grow old watching Quinn for 1 season.
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I can forgive 3 picks in a half. Mangini really didn't give Anderson any advanced warning.
I can't unless something other than himself caused the picks otherwise he's at fault..and costing the offense.
Regardless of warning ,any player has to be ready to go..what if Quinn was injured??
He'd have to suddenly go in...does that give him a excuse to starting hurling scud missiles everywhere?
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excuses excuses.
each game, quinn got noticeably worse. our team is hurting and mangini's credibility takes a huge hit with the players if the best qb is not on the field.
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I can forgive 3 picks in a half. Mangini really didn't give Anderson any advanced warning.
I can't unless something other than himself caused the picks otherwise he's at fault..and costing the offense.
Regardless of warning ,any player has to be ready to go..what if Quinn was injured??
He'd have to suddenly go in...does that give him a excuse to starting hurling scud missiles everywhere?
Exactly.
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U sound like you need a ego boost..Who cares what DA posters PM'd U about anything?
I certainly don't ..what in the name of DA's IQ does that matter?
I don't take back anything I said about Quinn's game ..he certainly isn't playing up to his credentials... but for you and anyone else to try to create this fantasy that DA is gonna save this offense is delusional..
Hey tell all those PM'ers to keep your spirits up..you'll need it..
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HA! again, focusing on one point and ignoring everything else.
1) ignore that you're wrong about quinn. check.
2) ignore that DA is the better option. check.
3) here's the one you just did: ignore the opportunity dong gave you to keep some semblance of dignity and instead, try to call him out. check.
and you're not even taking ownership of what you said about quinn. this has noething to do with his "credentials" and everything you thought you "saw" in him. all wrong wrong wrong.
we're done.
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I just realized that I first replied to you. My post was just a general statement and not aimed at anyone. I guess what I'm trying to get at is Anderson is a "turnover-prone" QB, plus he hasn't had the necessary first-team reps (then again, neither has Quinn ). I also read that Mangini did a pretty poor job of preparing Anderson to go in. Supposedly he didn't know he was taking the field in the second half until they were already out there (I read this but don't remember where, did a quick search just now but couldn't find it). And just my opinion: You are right that the backups have to be ready "wherever, whenever", but that really only goes so far. You have to give the backup as much preparation as possible, and I really don't think 'Gini gave that. If he un-cemented the frown off his face and managed to uncross his arms, he might've been able to communicate.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Quinn is finished here, he is done...the kid is a bust...plain and simple
Mangini told Quinn "throw the ball down field" Quinn refuses because he is scared, I personally don't think he can make the throws, hence that is the reason why.
Quinn is broken Mentally..the kid is finished, there is no reason to trot him back on the field, stick a fork in the kid he is DONE...did you see him talking to Furrey? furrey wouldn't even look at him...the rest of the team avoided him on the sidelines like the plague...the kid is done
If Mangini had any brains at all, he would ship that kid to a team out west somewhere for ANYTHING we can get for him.
The kid is finished, do you want to see Brady Quinn get pelted with beer cans by the fans here? Remember Tim Couch....fans have had enough of Quinn allready....ship him out of here, atleast he may be able to salavage his career elsewhere.
Tim Couch looked better than him with "no offensive line" and only Kevin Johnson as a rookie on an expansion team for crying out loud. quit making excuses for Quinn, he stinks...Anderson has NEVER played this god awful...yes not even Sunday
Atleast Anderson had more than 39 yards passing, Anderson got more than that in one drive!
Look, the time has come, Mangini, Ship Quinn out of here for whatever you can get for him, and commit to Anderson....don't even bother drafting a QB next year, you move forward with Anderson, he is good enough to win with...we need a Stud Safety and a Stud LB, a CB, and OT, and a RB and we could be challenge for the division title next year
give Da this year and next year, and build in other places, if he don't turn the corner by then, then we will have a team that we could take a QB in the early rounds of the draft
drafting a QB in 2010 is just setting him up for failure...
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Im pretty sure i heard Da say that he didnt know he wasnt going in untill they were out there in the 2nd half. Was in his post game interview on clevelandbrowns.com
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I just realized that I first replied to you. My post was just a general statement and not aimed at anyone.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is Anderson is a "turnover-prone" QB, plus he hasn't had the necessary first-team reps (then again, neither has Quinn ). I also read that Mangini did a pretty poor job of preparing Anderson to go in. Supposedly he didn't know he was taking the field in the second half until they were already out there (I read this but don't remember where, did a quick search just now but couldn't find it).
And just my opinion:
You are right that the backups have to be ready "wherever, whenever", but that really only goes so far. You have to give the backup as much preparation as possible, and I really don't think 'Gini gave that. If he un-cemented the frown off his face and managed to uncross his arms, he might've been able to communicate.
If Quinn goes down. Anderson has to be ready to go in. There is no prep time other than a few sideline tosses. Quinn looked just as shocked on the sideline as DA did in the huddle. It's no shock why his 3rd pass was picked off. He tried to force the ball in, instead of just throwing the ball away. That's DA being DA.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,468
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,468 |
I'm beating a dead horse because a little ways up somebody said that Anderson would've done better with a week or two of practice. I can agree with that. I don't see how ANY quarterback can be expected to step in and recover from that kind of disaster.
I've been reading the board for quite a while, and lots of people have made lots of good points for both of our QBs. Anderson got benched for a reason last year. Quinn got benched for a reason yesterday. If I had to pick, I would still go with Quinn to give him a little more time in there, but I really don't care.
We are bad football team. It doesn't matter if Anderson, Quinn, or dong is throwing the ball; it's all just different flavors of losing.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
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All I know is that when Anderson was in the game, he found some receivers running down the field.
Did he make some really bad decisions? Damn straight he did, but he PROVED receivers were open.
Let me tell you what I saw...
DA had 1 drive in the second half when we were down by 20 and the coaches might have had some inclination that we could make a game of it, he had 3 completions on that drive... all to Harrison and was intercepted throwing a 3 yard pass (read: dink and dunk)
After we were down 27 or more, he had a 22 yard completion and an 11 yard completion which led to a FG.... then he had an 18 yard completion and a 12 yard completion.....
In the second half against the Vikes after we were behind by 2 scores, Quinn had completions of 11 yards, 12 yards, 10 yards, then when it was 34-13, he had completions of 19 yards, 17 yards, 11 yards, and a 26 yard touchdown..
So did DA REALLY spark the offense? Or was DA just the recipient of soft zone, garbage time completions just like Quinn was against the Vikings? I mean seriously, let's compare apples to apples... if you do, you will see, that BOTH QBs are equally effective at getting the ball down the field WHEN IT DOESN'T MATTER.
If you compare second half numbers...
Against the Ravens, DA was 11/19 for 92 yards, 0 TDs, 3 INTs
Against the Vikes, BQ was 14/24 for 158 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
Seems to me that what we need to do if we want this offense to improve is convince the coaches and players in the pregame that we are already behind by 20 points. 
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790 |
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i had no intentions of implying you were a quinn homer, i just meant a lot of other guys who clearly were either jumped ship or stopped posting altogether even though they still log on to read everything (you know you who you are).
it's not easy to have the unpopular opinion (i would know) so i respect what you're saying. totally disagree, but i respect it.
Diam doesn't post a lot anymore. There is no one on this board tougher on Quinn then Diam. His opinion hasn't changed.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044 |
Quote:
Quote:
i had no intentions of implying you were a quinn homer, i just meant a lot of other guys who clearly were either jumped ship or stopped posting altogether even though they still log on to read everything (you know you who you are).
it's not easy to have the unpopular opinion (i would know) so i respect what you're saying. totally disagree, but i respect it.
Diam doesn't post a lot anymore. There is no one on this board tougher on Quinn then Diam. His opinion hasn't changed.
well he hasn't posted at all. i have no problem with his views of quinn, but when the namecalling started because i didn't agree, well i love that he told me i know nothing about qbs.
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