After reading a few of your posts i have to say the name calling wasn't because you disagreed with him. Diam and I don't agree on a lot but he has yet to call me names.
i'm respectful until someone proves they don't deserve it. let's discuss this in pm if you want. no reason to take up such valuable space on personal matters.
Since I dont like either QB, I want to see what I can get for any of them before the deadline.
Minnesota wants to trade Tavaris Jackson. They were talked about in alot of DA discussion. Favre might only be there for a year so why not groom one gunslinger under Favre for the rest of the season? Jackson is a FA at the end of the year so if Mangini or "gulp" the new regime wants him they can keep him or get him off the books with nothing against the future cap (if there is one)
I still think things might click for Quinn at some point. Not for this OC who is no innovator by any means. If not, then there is alot of talent coming in next years draft.
Quote: I'm beating a dead horse because a little ways up somebody said that Anderson would've done better with a week or two of practice. I can agree with that. I don't see how ANY quarterback can be expected to step in and recover from that kind of disaster.
I've been reading the board for quite a while, and lots of people have made lots of good points for both of our QBs. Anderson got benched for a reason last year. Quinn got benched for a reason yesterday. If I had to pick, I would still go with Quinn to give him a little more time in there, but I really don't care.
We are bad football team. It doesn't matter if Anderson, Quinn, or dong is throwing the ball; it's all just different flavors of losing.
I agree with you. I wasn't expecting any miracles out of DA. The game was over.
Mangini said he thought maybe DA would give the offense a spark. It didn't happen. You have to go back to Quinn now, to see how he reacts to this. Let it play itself out. Then make a decision.
HMMMM Drew Brees Negatives... Plays in the spread offense, taking the bulk of his snaps from the shotgun... Tends to side-arm his passes going deep...Lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws... Seems more comfortable in the short/intermediate passing attack...Does not possess the ideal height you look for in a pro passer, though his ability to scan the field helps him compensate in this area...Will improvise and run when the passing lanes are clogged, but tends to run through defenders rather than trying to avoid them to prevent unnecessary punishment.
Quote: Honestly I don't know what's wrong with BQ... He's always been more of a ball control passer, I agree with that... but in all of his preseason games, in his games last year, any time I've ever seen him... I've never seen him this gun shy and look this rattled.. so I can't really answer your question.
Thats a point I brought up in the locked threads..he didn't look confused/hesitant when he played last year or preseason..something isn't clicking or something is holding him back..himself..what it is I don't know..
I agree with this. Quinn didn't look this bad last year or even in the preseason this year. Something is in his head. He's looks scared to make a mistake, and all the while he's making a lot of them.
My opinion on this is Mangini put him on a short leash, and, TOLD him he was on it. You wouldn't walk point very well either with your machine gunner honed in on your back. The other thread on Campbell is a better option than this back-and-forth is, but we ain't gettin' him NOW. Neither of these two is going to get anything done with the coaching and coordinating staffs we have, let alone the pitiful effort ALL the players are exhibiting.
Quote: well he hasn't posted at all. i have no problem with his views of quinn, but when the namecalling started because i didn't agree, well i love that he told me i know nothing about qbs.
You're right, he hasn't posted at all. You know that because you've been on the lookout for it. Like a guy who got socked in the eye for being annoying and don't want that again. Now that you're confident he'll not see your comments you can post boldly.
He didn't name call you because you didn't agree with him. He would never do that, instead he would discuss with you if you had a leg to stand on. He called you that because the shoe fits.
Furthermore, he told you that you know nothing about QB's because you don't. How in the hell could you? All you have is an emotional opinion based on the football knowledge of a television fan with a bag full of stats. No disgrace in that. But you think you know far more than you do.
I got a kick out your posts in the Game Day thread when DA came in and moved the ball a little. You were gloating over how right you were about DA and how now it's being proven on the field. There was a gleem. You were justified. After the first pick you were cool with that. It could happen to anybody. After the second pick you quieted down quite a bit. After the third pick you disappeared.
You are the poster child of the knee-jerk, emotional posters I've talked about in my past rants. And now you've got the balls to make a comment about someone whom you know is not here to read it and make it sound like you were the winner of some heady discussion regarding QB's.
Quote: Honestly I don't know what's wrong with BQ... He's always been more of a ball control passer, I agree with that... but in all of his preseason games, in his games last year, any time I've ever seen him... I've never seen him this gun shy and look this rattled.. so I can't really answer your question.
Thats a point I brought up in the locked threads..he didn't look confused/hesitant when he played last year or preseason..something isn't clicking or something is holding him back..himself..what it is I don't know..
I agree with this. Quinn didn't look this bad last year or even in the preseason this year. Something is in his head. He's looks scared to make a mistake, and all the while he's making a lot of them.
My opinion on this is Mangini put him on a short leash, and, TOLD him he was on it. You wouldn't walk point very well either with your machine gunner honed in on your back. The other thread on Campbell is a better option than this back-and-forth is, but we ain't gettin' him NOW. Neither of these two is going to get anything done with the coaching and coordinating staffs we have, let alone the pitiful effort ALL the players are exhibiting.
I don't know what's going on with Quinn. Both QB's had to learn a new system this year. Quinn did not look this bad in preseason. Something is going on. That's all I'm saying.
You are the one who decided to publicly bring Diam onto the board so you could gloat when you know he's not here to respond. That's a little too one-sided for me.
I've got nothing to discuss with you in a PM. It's a waste of time.
Diam was the one who thought Quinn was so great...that didn't work out to well for him
so fair is fair
so if someone wants to bring him up, and say something concerning Quinn...... well all is fair i would suppose...Dian afterall made those statements about how great Quinn was....its only logical he may have to eat it
I doubt he needs anyone here to fight his battles for him, he is a man afterall
Everyone needs to take a step back from the ledge and think about this. I know everyone is pretty opinionated..(myself include). Here are the facts..Not many people on here believed this team would be this incompetent..I sure didn't. I thought with the discipline Mangini has brought, The attention to detail, getting rid of a couple sour grapes and bringing in respectable tenured vets, we could be competitive at the least.
I never thought much of Quinn, I just thought he was overhyped and a media darling..both are true. Even though I don't like his style of play and didn't think he was good at it anyway. When Mangini made his decision to go with him, I was hoping I was wrong and hoping for the best. I didn't think he won the competition outright, but agreed Mangini probably wanted to take a looksy due to some upcoming business and personell decisons that will have to be made.
In the 3 games Quinn has played in, I have seen an ineptitude not seen before at the QB position in a long time. Every phase of his game was awful. I thought there is no way someone that was billed as the next Tom Brady could be so bad. Well he was, and as many times as I watch it I can't find anything he did well. In 3 games, in the first halves of each (6 quarters) he has 138 yards. He is averaging about 23 yards per quarter in the air. If this doesn't tell you something, I don't know what to tell you. He is at 49% completion percentage on third down. But the hell with stats..He doesn't even pass the eyeball test. He looks lost, over his head, scared, unsure, doesn't look like he has the respect of anyone out there. He possesses none of the traits he was said to have.
We need to develop a QB, let one play and move on without the other. Mangini pulling Quinn pretty much solidified his fate. His confidence is shot. He can't move the team at all...I'm not just saying that. He really can't move the ball, and that is going to kill our defense. He must have been so bad even to Mangini who screamed to everyone by pulling him, that he made a mistake. Coaches just don't pull QB's they are trying to build up, especially a week after he said Quinn has nothing to worry about and he is the starter. This was a huge decision and he made it.
What we need to do is see what DA has this week after a full week of practice with the starters. If Anderson comes out, moves the ball, scores some TD's and hopefully win, we will see everything in black and white with the same players. Who says we can't string together three straight wins and be back to 500. It's amazing what some life will do for a team, and for three games it has been the most boring, dead, inept team imaginable. What if Anderson, has it? What if it clicks and turns this season around. If not, you can go back to Quinn. For one week, just support Anderson if he is the starter. He owes Cinci a little something, after the wind tunnel game. I can't imagine anyone screaming Brady Brady Brady, without being taken to a Psyche ward for observation. so let him play, let him build his confidence and the team and Cities confidence up. At this point, there is no right or wrong..only hope that someone can pull this team up from the bottom.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
I say start Quinn vs. Bengals, give him a bit more time. If he stinks it up, send in DA... and don't wait all day to do it. I'm not a DA hater, but I have a hard time rationalizing throwing BQ to the trash heap after three games as the starter. Especially considering other problems, such as a WR corps that looks bad, aside from Braylon.
The thing is..we don't know if the WR corps is bad? People said the line was bad and DA had all sorts of time, last game. People said it was Daboll, but Anderson didn't check down to the Safety valve and found guys downfield. This will tell us more about the rest of the team than anything. It will even tell us about the D if they aren't on the field all Day or know the offense can come back and score. This is where you can seperate all these excuses out for both QB's. I don't think the receivers are that bad, I don't even think the line is that bad.(except for St. Clair who makes me long for Ross Verba or Schaffer) but DA seemed to handle the Baltimore blitz better anyway. converting some big third downs.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
Quit running around acting like you are right about something, you think because Quinn got benched that your somehow right about DA, your not, hes the same guy hes always been.
Not everyone that believed Quinn should start is a Quinn honk, they were actually objectively looking at the situation, unlike you.
Derek still sucks, and you still dont get that, end of story.
Quote: Quit running around acting like you are right about something, you think because Quinn got benched that your somehow right about DA, your not, hes the same guy hes always been.
Not everyone that believed Quinn should start is a Quinn honk, they were actually objectively looking at the situation, unlike you.
Derek still sucks, and you still dont get that, end of story.
shows how much you really know. i'm not advertising anything about DA, merely that quinn wouldn't amount to anything. objectively? PLEASE.
Am I the only one that still thinks Quinn will be a successful QB in the NFL?
I think everyone is judging way too quickly. Quinn certainly has the physical size and athleticism. He has a very competant arm and he has nice touch on the short stuff.
I've seen him throw a nice deep ball with air under it. And I know he can hit the skinny post well.
I'm not sure that he's ever going to be a guy that can be trusted with a deep out from the opposite hash but not many people are.
By all accounts he's smart. And he's a hard worker. You can tell by looking at the guy that he takes good care of himself. He's probably the strongest QB in the NFL.
I think what's going on here is mental. He's either not seeing the routes coming open, the WRs are running bad routes or not getting open, or some sort of mental block on standing in the pocket when the right side of his line...within his line of vision...is caving in.
I'm probably one of the last people here that still thinks he's going to succeed.
He's got too much going for him.
It might not be here but he'll do well somewhere..sometime. I'm pretty confident.
Mangini needs to do Quinn a big favor, and trade him....its whats best for Brady
Maybe he can salvage something out of his career some place else
if not, he is going to end up getting beer cans thrown at him like Tim couch did...
We need to do this kid a favor and trade him, bring in some guy off waivers, and go with DA the rest of the year...
and don't draft a Qb until we fix the Right side of our line, LB, CB, S, and RB...then we can draft a QB
until then, stick with DA, maybe bring someone like Campbell or another veteran in to compete with DA next year....it Da turns the season around, extend the kid and commit to him long term, if not, bring in a veteran
i don't want us drafting a QB in the first round, not yet, we will ruin the kid in a hurry
Quote: Am I the only one that still thinks Quinn will be a successful QB in the NFL?
If you find someone..let Kokinis know so that we can get something for him. ...How great would it be to send Quinn and Rogers and a certain pick to Carolina for Otah and Stewart. Let Rubin Start, I like Rogers but his value can help this team. Our line would be shored up, Running back would be shored up, Carolina gets that presence in the middle and a QB that is under 34 and slightly worse than Delhomme is this year. We can sell them on his upside. Madden here I come. lol Just dreaming.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
It might not be here but he'll do well somewhere..sometime. I'm pretty confident.
Nope, you're not the only one. You're just the only one with the common sense to say it.
Unfortunately, I don't think it will be here. Too many morons that call themselves fans have made it their mission to pummel any guy that stands behind the Center in Cleveland.
Sad, really.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
Quote: m I the only one that still thinks Quinn will be a successful QB in the NFL?
Maybe, but its not right now. Quinn looks so rattled and shy about making or taking any chances. Hes flat out playing scared....the accuracy isnt there. I don't think hes seeing the field very well, hes not sure what to do.
The WR's are not playing well, Braylon is it, nobody else is worth a darn. DA had nobody open when he came in.
Maybe with different circumstances, a different group around him, competent coaches....but not now.
The sad truth, we don't have a QB that can put together a good game on this roster. Might as well flip a coin, take some tums, and get out the 30pack of icehouse.
Nice pass from Delhomme right now on MNF, just as I was typing this. 7-0 Panthers. I'd love to see the Cowboys lose again in Jerry Jones's monolith.
What in the hell are the Panthers doing? I can't watch the game but i'm following the play by play and it seems like they were running all over a Cowboys defense who is giving up 147 yards a game and are they are doing is passing now and are only down by 3. What gives? I got DeAngelo Williams on my fantasy team and I need them to run the freakin ball!
Quote: Quinn looks so rattled and shy about making or taking any chances. Hes flat out playing scared....the accuracy isnt there. I don't think hes seeing the field very well, hes not sure what to do.
The WR's are not playing well, Braylon is it, nobody else is worth a darn. DA had nobody open when he came in.
Maybe with different circumstances, a different group around him, competent coaches....but not now.
The sad truth, we don't have a QB that can put together a good game on this roster. Might as well flip a coin, take some tums, and get out the 30pack of icehouse.
That's exactly what I'm seeing. He's a deer in headlights and there is no simple explanation for it. He didn't look this bad in the few games last year, or in the preseason this year.
Nice pass from Delhomme right now on MNF, just as I was typing this. 7-0 Panthers. I'd love to see the Cowboys lose again in Jerry Jones's monolith.
What in the hell are the Panthers doing? I can't watch the game but i'm following the play by play and it seems like they were running all over a Cowboys defense who is giving up 147 yards a game and are they are doing is passing now and are only down by 3. What gives? I got DeAngelo Williams on my fantasy team and I need them to run the freakin ball!
I saw the Panthers do play action on 3rd and long deep in their own territory..
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
I do not think that Quinn will be a successful starting QB in the NFL ....
I see him as doing a very nice job at the line ...... right up until the ball is snapped. That's when all hell breaks loose.
He doesn't seem to have any awareness in the pocket ....... his accuracy has been iffy at best .... and you can only check down to the RB so many times on 3rd and long. DBs were starting to jump routes inside because they didn't believe that he could, or would even try to, beat them over the top. That's pretty telling.
Quinn seems unable to anticipate pressure and blitzes, even when they are apparent to fans watching on TV. He seems to miss single coverages in those situations. That's where great QBs make their living. Kosar used to routinely burn blitzes. Quinn looks for a checkdown for 2 or 3 yards instead of hanging in for a second or 2 and seeing, and delivering the ball to the open man.
I'm not saying that a big play is likely, or even possible in every blitz situation ..... but I have yet to see even 1 out of Quinn.
Quinn is currently at the same point in his career as Anderson was when he assumed the starting role after Frye's implosion. It is obvious that Quinn is well behind Anderson's development at the same point in their respective careers. That's frightening that the "most NFL ready QB" doesn't really compare to a guy who was a 6th round pick, had been cut .... and was damn near practice squad material a few years ago.
I do think that Quinn might be able to make a quality backup on a really good team ..... but I really believe that's his ceiling.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Nice pass from Delhomme right now on MNF, just as I was typing this. 7-0 Panthers. I'd love to see the Cowboys lose again in Jerry Jones's monolith.
What in the hell are the Panthers doing? I can't watch the game but i'm following the play by play and it seems like they were running all over a Cowboys defense who is giving up 147 yards a game and are they are doing is passing now and are only down by 3. What gives? I got DeAngelo Williams on my fantasy team and I need them to run the freakin ball!
Remember the geinus that was Jeff Davidson? He's their OC.
I can agree with that. I don't see how ANY quarterback can be expected to step in and recover from that kind of disaster.
Being down that huge a margin it should have been the plan to work a sustained drive, not come ejecting balls all over the place..you get the guy warm by having him manage the offense ..then you pick your parts..the point is any QB has to be ready to go at any time..even if he's cold that doesn't excuse brainless mistakes just like I don't excuse Quinn for the first INT he threw nor the fact he won't go downfield..the QB has to read the defender. If he sees him sitting down with a window over the top, he has to pump the CB onto his toes then go quickly over the top to Edwards who should read the same thing.
Again, BE's route didn't do a thing to help Quinn, but the QB has to know when to cut off a designed play and the defender gave him all the reason in the world there. If at that point, Edwards didn't make the same adjustment, then the bad route is all on Edwards and Quinn is not culpable for the awful play. I remembered what many Jets said about Mangini--that they played afraid to make mistakes. That's exactly what I'm seeing here. A naturally conscientious QB who's even more afraid to make a mistake because that's the number one goal of his HC.
Anderson got benched for a reason last year. Quinn got benched for a reason yesterday. If I had to pick, I would still go with Quinn to give him a little more time in there, but I really don't care.
Now this is the thing I thought about yesterday when I left..there are 3 ways to handle this.. Start Quinn ...ride him out ,find out what the heck is wrong.. Start Quinn , if he can't get the offense going, throw DA in.. Now this cannot happen every week..the coaches will be handicapping the offense..there will be no flow at all.. Start DA...then let Quinn come in..perhaps we have two backup QB's...neither feels comfortable in starting..neither seems to be able to be consistant.. Like I said I 'm not sure whats up with him..but he certainly isn't playing like he's ready..I honestly feel the lack of reps in real games has messed with him.. He doesn't look confident at all..he's regressed but why I don't know.. I hope the trade of Winslow isn't a part of it..Brady does like to go with the TE.. The coaches have to open the game up for him..gameplan for him to go downfield provided the play is there..and not feel he'll be yanked if he makes a mistake. Before a permanent switch is made the Browns need to get it right about Quinn, one way or the other..
Dong.. Well Diam isn't here but I am..and I'll start by saying someone else who just left-hooked U got it right..U are a knee-jerk poster ..you got excited because DA did what he always does? He's predictable just like U are.. that first INT was him but the others were classic DA...take shot close your eyes hope it doesn't get picked..thats what he is..while he might be a better option at this point , it's realitive..because he's not a quality starter.. I have said nothing about both QB's that I didn't say 2 years ago when I had my two page dragout with Pitdawg..and I don't need to PM you about anything..I can say what I need to in front of everyone and I'm certainly not worried..
Quote: How many QB's arre the finished product after two years?
Yet you're convinced that Quinn is finished now.
Quote: Good luck finding a QB who isn't going to make mistakes his first few years in the league.
Which is okay for your boy, but not for Quinn.
Look, I don't care if it's Quinn,Anderson, or someone who's not even here yet, but too many people are viewing things with a predetermined set of eyes and that causes for serious flaws in logic.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do. -Derek Jeter
I'm saying stick with Quinn... I'm saying re-do Anderson's contract and keep him as a backup incase Quinn gets hurt...
How many years did the Ravens play with Boller, and were decent?
Build your defense FIRST!! Defense takes you to that next level...
SECOND... Build your running game...
James Davis and Harrison are nice.. One could POSSIBLY prove to be a starter... But I personally want a guy like Jamal Lewis (in his prime)/ Adrian Peterson/ Frank Gore... that can pound the ball and most IMPORTANTLY hit the hole with Power AND Speed.
Coming out of this draft... look for:
Jonathan Dwyer of Ga Tech.... He is a beast.. reminds me of Ronnie Brown... Great Strength.. Strong Legs.. and have great vision and ability to move in and out to increase his opportunities for more yardage.
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