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He headed an offense that actually moved the bal and scored points, and won games, and converted third downs, and just generally played football.
And all of these things are better than anything Quinn has done this year, once handed the starting gig.
How about you just hold your judgement on DA until after he gets his opportunity to lead this week.
Then, if he is worse than Brady---gloat all you want.
And if he is better, then you can go to your argument that "you are waiting for the other DA to show up." Then once he has a two INT game you will say he sucks, and I told you so.
I'm sure it will go like that. I have read this board long enough to know how people are.
That offense he headed included Ryan Tucker, Kellen Winslow, Joe Jurevicius, Kevin Shaffer, a Healthy younger Jamal Lewis. Bring those guys back, and put the 07 Bengals, Rams, Dolphins, Raiders, Seahawks, and Texans on our schedule, and then we're in business.
Maybe we are starting to see a trend here.....probably not...but mayyyybbeeeee..........
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NRTU hmm,, and we wondered why Quinn dropped so low in the draft.. perhaps others saw what Phil Savage and some fans (me included) didn't.. I didn't know if he'd be great, but I didn't expect him to be a bust and that's what he's kinda looking like at this point. The good news is this,, we didn't blow the 3rd pick in the draft on him 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The good news is this,, we didn't blow the 3rd pick in the draft on him
what a positive way to look at it. are you sure you've been a browns fan for long?
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Attack, one thing I believe is that DA is going to throw up a game like the Bengals in '07 or the Giants in '08 just often enough to keep some people believing that with just a little more time, he can do that consistently..
13 GAMES TO GO..I will sit back and observe like I always do..I also give U this..week 6-8..that is my ususal timetable to observe a trend..I thought they would give Brady that long but Gini didn't..now the ball is in DA's court..lets see(others can hope) what he does with it..
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You and many others are way to harsh on DA....he's "only" below average to bad by NFL standards...I know that's a backhanded compliment but it's still a huuuge upgrade over horrible or incompetent (Frye was bad to horrible, Quinn was horrible AND incompetent...yes, even Charly Frye looked better than BQ out there and poor Charly never had a LT....sorry Diam if you're reading this)
so, DA is not the answer but he's ok to get by, take home a win here and there on a better day...I still like him as a backup QB
I really think we will see the best this team AND staff can pull together this sunday...whatever we will look like, it won't get better....I actually expect us to be in this game till the end, believe it or not....if we again look like "do do" then Mangini is LOST...big time
You can tell poor Cartman is feeling the pressure....he knows it's his last shot at NFL HC...you know why? Mr.Morality, Mr. code of conduct is just being "a guy"...breaking his own word (when he said he'll stick with whatever QB he'll pick), doing everything to stay alive....and maybe sneak out 2-4 wins to "get" another year from Lerner
we have already arrived at the final stage of bigotry of a poor lunatic moralist (I really thought it'd take 1 or 2 more years...so needless to say that for the sake of my beloved Browns I'm pretty happy he got unmasked this quick)
I mean really...who can take this guy seriously anymore INSIDE the Browns?
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j/c
So if he's going with Anderson then he better stick with him thick or thin. Make a decision and go with it.
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On the other hand, Quinn deserves it. He has not progressed, he refuses to test the defense, and he is holding the ball too long. I don't blame Mangini for switching QB's.
93/169 (55%), 1,129 passing yards (225 per game), 4 TD, 12 INT
That's how much Peyton Manning "progressed" in his first 5 starts in the NFL. 
No one said it was going to be pretty but young QB's don't improve while riding the pine. It's pretty much as simple as that.
If you think DA is going to magically be able to take us to the promised land, more power to you. Our coached just pulled a QB after 3 games that won a QB competition in favor of a guy who lost said competition and threw 3 picks in his only appearance this season.
Really instills confidence in a coach doesn't it?
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Alls I know is that I know for a FACT! that I could throw for 60 yards... 
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He headed an offense that actually moved the bal and scored points, and won games, and converted third downs, and just generally played football.
And all of these things are better than anything Quinn has done this year, once handed the starting gig.
How about you just hold your judgement on DA until after he gets his opportunity to lead this week.
Then, if he is worse than Brady---gloat all you want.
And if he is better, then you can go to your argument that "you are waiting for the other DA to show up." Then once he has a two INT game you will say he sucks, and I told you so.
I'm sure it will go like that. I have read this board long enough to know how people are.
And if DA throws for 300 yards and 4 TD's you'll be on here saying I told you so.
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it's not about numbers. it's not about the tds, ints, yards, or even losses. i didn't watch manning's rookie season but i sure bet he didn't play like quinn did.
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J/C...But everyone is talking about the int's...corect me if im wrong , but dosent a QB that play's for the Viking's own the record for the most int's ever?
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it's not about numbers. it's not about the tds, ints, yards, or even losses. i didn't watch manning's rookie season but i sure bet he didn't play like quinn did.
Bingo.
Manning showed glimpses in his poor performances.
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it's not about numbers. it's not about the tds, ints, yards, or even losses. i didn't watch manning's rookie season but i sure bet he didn't play like quinn did.
They went 1-15. How do you think he played?
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Although I do have doubts about BQ, I would still start BQ for this game. Cinci isn't a great defense. If he stinks the place up, bench him and start DA @ Buffalo.
Seriously...Is it really a good idea to yank BQ and start DA for a HOME game for a team going nowhere? BQ has played like he's looking over his shoulder waiting to get yanked and DA will be looking over both shoulders. One waiting to get yanked and the other looking for snipers in the stands. (I guess I have to come to terms with the ugly truth....we'll never get bottled beer back at the stadium)
"My signature line goes here."
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the next two games are winnable. why wouldn't we do everything we can to get to 2-3 before pittsburgh?
further, quinn was already pulled once. starting him this game does no good.
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The only snipers he will see lurking for him are the Bengal DB's..
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Although I do have doubts about BQ, I would still start BQ for this game. Cinci isn't a great defense. If he stinks the place up, bench him and start DA @ Buffalo.
Seriously...Is it really a good idea to yank BQ and start DA for a HOME game for a team going nowhere? BQ has played like he's looking over his shoulder waiting to get yanked and DA will be looking over both shoulders. One waiting to get yanked and the other looking for snipers in the stands. (I guess I have to come to terms with the ugly truth....we'll never get bottled beer back at the stadium)
DA is a gunslinger. He's too stupid to be looking over his shoulder.
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I really think we will see the best this team AND staff can pull together this sunday...whatever we will look like, it won't get better....I actually expect us to be in this game till the end, believe it or not....
I think so too.
The QB switch should serve as a wake-up call to the whole team. They will likely now play with a sense of urgency, which I haven't seen yet, and it will appear as though something resembling good can come of it.
I agree wholeheartedly with your take on DA. Also on Mangini in so far as he's buckling to the pressure and hoping to win a game rather than stick to his plan.
#gmstrong
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it's not about numbers. it's not about the tds, ints, yards, or even losses. i didn't watch manning's rookie season but i sure bet he didn't play like quinn did.
Bingo.
Manning showed glimpses in his poor performances.
Manning had 11 (2+) interception games that season. ELEVEN.
10 of his 16 games he had a QB rating BELOW 70.
Did he have some glimpses? Sure but he was given the chance to have a few. Why? Because they let him play the entire year. A radical concept I know.
Overall he was God awful his rookie year. 28 INT's and a QB rating of 71. Regardless of "glimpses" that would hardly be considered as anything but terrible.
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They went 1-15. How do you think he played?
Well since Quinn will not even get the chance to play a full season, how will we know how he played compared to other young QB's. Fact is neither dong nor any of the other DA homers know what they are talking about.
Talking about Quinn or DA at this point, with this team, is stupid mainly because they have no support at all. We have one weapon on offense, one. The rest are total bums.
Starting DA the rest of the season serves no purpose at all...but thes out of options...so change the QB. In reality, there are several other positions that need changing, but you dont hear about those, because its the small minded fans running around screaming its all the QB's fault.
Starting DA is a desperation act, nothing more.
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Overall he was God awful his rookie year. 28 INT's and a QB rating of 71. Regardless of "glimpses" that would hardly be considered as anything but terrible.
Yes, Mannings rookie year and DA's first year have drawn many parellels stat-wise.
We need to stick with DA.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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They went 1-15. How do you think he played?
Well since Quinn will not even get the chance to play a full season, how will we know how he played compared to other young QB's. Fact is neither dong nor any of the other DA homers know what they are talking about.
Talking about Quinn or DA at this point, with this team, is stupid mainly because they have no support at all. We have one weapon on offense, one. The rest are total bums.
Starting DA the rest of the season serves no purpose at all...but thes out of options...so change the QB. In reality, there are several other positions that need changing, but you dont hear about those, because its the small minded fans running around screaming its all the QB's fault.
Starting DA is a desperation act, nothing more.
I agree.
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"Flustered & Flumoxed" I think Adam Shefter has inadvertently coined new nicknames for the offense and defense. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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No one said it was going to be pretty but young QB's don't improve while riding the pine....
.... Our coached just pulled a QB after 3 games that won a QB competition in favor of a guy who lost said competition and threw 3 picks in his only appearance this season.
Really instills confidence in a coach doesn't it?
I agree Nas. For me, it's less about DA starting because I think he can be terrific some games, and terrible the next. He even does that from series to series.
But I think it's very early to yank BQ. I'm disappointed that a guy we gave up so much for can't pay well enough to stay on the field.
To be fair to the coach, while Mangini did say he's pick a QB and stick with him, I'm sure he didn't envision a sputtering offense of this magnitude.
The carousel continues. And if "Bad DA" shows up next week, throwing picks all over CBS, how long before Quinn is back under center? This season has started off as a a complete disaster.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Derek Anderson Back in the Saddle Again
Derek Anderson will start Sunday’s game against the Bengals at the stadium. Coach Eric Mangini made the announcement Wednesday saying he is looking for improvement offensively.
Brady Quinn was benched in favor of Anderson to start the second half last Sunday at Baltimore. The Browns, who are off to their 3rd 0-3 start in 4 seasons have scored 1 offensive touchdown this season.
http://www.espncleveland.com/
He had no choice but to name Anderson the starter.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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He definitely had a choice, he could have just said the other name instead of Anderson's and it would have been in keeping with his stated purpose for yanking Quinn to start with - that he was "just trying to get a spark".
However, now that he didn't do that, Quinn is officially damaged goods and we won't go back to him unless there is an injury to Anderson.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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He definitely had a choice, he could have just said the other name instead of Anderson's and it would have been in keeping with his stated purpose for yanking Quinn to start with - that he was "just trying to get a spark".
However, now that he didn't do that, Quinn is officially damaged goods and we won't go back to him unless there is an injury to Anderson.
^ This.
We're a team who should be making moves towards the future and figuring out if BQ is worth a lick but instead, our coach is doing whatever he can to keep his job... 3 weeks into the season. What happens if DA comes out in Cincy and plays like he did against Baltimore? Does Brady come back in again? What if he struggles? Back to DA? This ridiculous QB musical chairs is a surefire way to ensure you never have a confident starting QB and it looks like Mangini is all about it. What a buffoon.
We're... we're good?
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That isn't necessarily true.
Sometimes you have to bench a guy to give him to regroup and to think. In Quinn's case, he wasn't getting the DIRECT coaches message, so if telling him and stating it through the media don't do the trick, the only alternative is to sit his ass down and let him think about it.
Now, if Anderson does well, Mangini clearly made a mistake in picking Quinn but the problem is solved.
If Anderson craps out, the season is lost and Quinn, having had a spell to think about things and decompress, can get back in there and try again.
Quinn isn't "damaged goods" because he was benched. He was "damaged goods" because he was actually going backwards in his development. Starting or sitting him made no difference in that regard.
I said it before he was benched and I believe it still: Sitting Quinn is a good thing. He was lost and had no idea what he was doing out there. Sitting him was the only choice.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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why is it that people don't believe mangini may have already figured that quinn won't be his guy? i see no signs that people may have even considered that as an outcome.
my perspective is he knew before the regular season that quinn wasn't going to be his guy but had no choice to play him as DA (who i'm not saying is mangini's guy either, i think mangini's guy isn't on our roster) didn't play heads and shoulders above quinn. that is further supported by his unwillingness to name a "winner" to the comp and instead, drew the whole thing out until gameday.
i also do think mangini played quinn and had a bit of the "see, this is what you've been asking for, cleveland" attitude. now we can put DA in and know that, regardless of what DA does, it can't be worse than what we saw in the first 2.5 games of inept qb play by quinn. if it were the other way around, any accomplishment by DA would've been followed by "quinn could've done that but better."
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He definitely had a choice, he could have just said the other name instead of Anderson's and it would have been in keeping with his stated purpose for yanking Quinn to start with - that he was "just trying to get a spark".
However, now that he didn't do that, Quinn is officially damaged goods and we won't go back to him unless there is an injury to Anderson.
About time.
I hated seeing DA benched last year. I thought it was a poor move. I thought DA should be our QB, we should put him in there and build teh team with him as QB.
I didn't even like the QB comp. this year. I thought that DA had more experience, was pretty much the incumbent, and so he should have started.
But Quinn was handed the role and I was quiet. If that was the coaches choice---whatever. I'm a Browns fan---I will be behind the guy.
But after his horrendous start, I am glad Mangini made the move. I think DA can be the guy, and hopefully he is able to get this offense back on track.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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That isn't necessarily true.
It sure is.
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Sometimes you have to bench a guy to give him to regroup and to think. In Quinn's case, he wasn't getting the DIRECT coaches message, so if telling him and stating it through the media don't do the trick, the only alternative is to sit his ass down and let him think about it.
And he was.... and now he could have gone back in.
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Quinn isn't "damaged goods" because he was benched. He was "damaged goods" because he was actually going backwards in his development. Starting or sitting him made no difference in that regard.
He's damaged goods from the benching in that by not going back to him, we have moved on without him - period - unless things continue to fail under Anderson, as you just pointed out in not so many words.
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I said it before he was benched and I believe it still: Sitting Quinn is a good thing. He was lost and had no idea what he was doing out there. Sitting him was the only choice.
I agree that sitting him had to be done.. I'm not disputing that at all. All I am disputing is your opinion that Mangini had no choice but to go with Anderson - because he absolutely did have a choice, and he made one which closes the door on Quinn unless/until Anderson fails.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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And he was.... and now he could have gone back in.
I was waiting for you to say that 
It's more than just about Quinn or Anderson. It's about the team.
The players would have been waiting for Quinn to make one errant throw, and they would have thrown up their hands and not been able to match the intensity of the other team.
For that reason and that reason only, Quinn had to sit.
The other reasons that pertain specifically to Quinn also apply.
With Anderson in there, the players know he can throw a pick and come right back and throw a TD. With Quinn in there, they don't believe he can do anything at this point.
That's why he had to sit Quinn and start Anderson.
I'll be interested to see if he has the balls to admit that to the media, though it'd be a very bad idea if he did........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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why is it that people don't believe mangini may have already figured that quinn won't be his guy?
because genius..no one can figure that in only 2.5 games..takes longer than that.
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Prp, I forgot to add that in the thought process that says Quinn should sit and decompress, that can't happen over the course of a week. He needs to actually watch a game from the sidelines and let things settle in.
A full week+ of film and rest away from the pressure of what was happening is what he needs. That doesn't stand much of a chance if he was benched in-game then named the starter three days later.
Gotta head to work. I'm sure there'll be plenty of debate left about this topic *L*
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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why is it that people don't believe mangini may have already figured that quinn won't be his guy? i see no signs that people may have even considered that as an outcome.
my perspective is he knew before the regular season that quinn wasn't going to be his guy but had no choice to play him as DA (who i'm not saying is mangini's guy either, i think mangini's guy isn't on our roster) didn't play heads and shoulders above quinn. that is further supported by his unwillingness to name a "winner" to the comp and instead, drew the whole thing out until gameday.
i also do think mangini played quinn and had a bit of the "see, this is what you've been asking for, cleveland" attitude. now we can put DA in and know that, regardless of what DA does, it can't be worse than what we saw in the first 2.5 games of inept qb play by quinn. if it were the other way around, any accomplishment by DA would've been followed by "quinn could've done that but better."
I don't know of many if any NFL talent evaluators who can make a sound judgment on any player from 7 total games, only 3 of which he personally saw. I don't even know that Mangini thinks that Quinn won't be the better QB in the future... I think, after these disgusting games and all the "sources" saying he's on the hotseat, that that's exactly the case. Mangini is feeling the heat and he's doing what will win him the most games NOW.
If he takes this 6-10 team to a 4 win or more season, there's a chance he could make excuses and keep his job, after which he'll have to worry about progressing. I think he sees that Quinn is a ways away and that he might not survive a season in which he sits back and lets him work through his issues.
In short, I think Mangini is buying himself time and that's absolutely reprehensible on a team that needs to grow for the future.
We're... we're good?
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because genius..no one can figure that in only 2.5 games..takes longer than that.
Attack, you've been very grumpy of late. Is menopause kicking in? 
gmstrong -----------------
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i'm gonna try this one more time before i close the door for good. let's try to do this right, attack. i'm going to keep this respectful and i hope you will too.
mangini came in with a natural perspective of quinn and DA. he had the OTAs, the training camps, the preseason, and 3 weeks of the regular season. during that period, he has been around both qbs, gotten to know them, listened to what they see in film study, and charted EVERY throw they made also knowing where the ball SHOULD have gone. he knows their games, their arms, and their brains.
yes, a sample size of less than 3 games is small but that doesn't mean there isn't a mountain of data to that can be analyzed and charted. he's an nfl coach, when he decides to put a player in, he has reasons. it is his responsibility to understand the strengths and weaknesses of all his players and you can bet he knows them for quinn. you can also bet that he's worked hard to coach quinn to be a better player and, as far as we can tell, quinn did not respond. unfortunately, the only way WE can say that is because of the product on the field but all accounts in training camp said he was inaccurate and undecisive.
it may take US, as FANS, longer than a few games because of how much limited access we have to BETTER information. even as we watch a game, we can't tell what the play called was, we can't tell where players should be, and we can't tell where our qbs should throw the ball. that doesn't mean mangini doesn't know. so while, in our perspective, we need many games to "evaluate" a player, the same does NOT hold true for nfl coaches, whose careers are built off of 16 games. it is his job to know everything about everyone before the season and he's made it perfectly clear that he is a very knowledgeable coach who has a strong attention to detail. i'd bet his opinion on his qbs probably held true on quinn, and whatever we see from DA will proabbly validate his opinion of DA from before the season started.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227 |
Quote:
The players would have been waiting for Quinn to make one errant throw, and they would have thrown up their hands and not been able to match the intensity of the other team.
For that reason and that reason only, Quinn had to sit.
That is a problem with the coaching, not with the QB play. If you can't get your guys out there to do their jobs to help support a guy who is struggling with his, you're failing as a motivator.
Quinn is struggling as are other players on the team, but for a team to come out so dead and flat because of it is pathetic. The fact that the team is so easily defeated and comes out of halftimes so lackluster goes squarely on the shoulders of the head coach.
We're... we're good?
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044 |
i disagree. i would bet mangini, in his interview with lerner, told him the first season was going to be ugly. he probably explained how the personell does not match up with any semblance of a 3-4 and that there were questions at many positions, including qb. that's just personal speculation.
i don't think lerner is one to make rash decisions. it wasn't the MO of his father and wasn't hte MO for him either.
i think mangini is making the move that is best for the team. while it's about quinn and anderson, it's about more than that. it's about edwards, momass, heiden, thomas, steinbach, mack, rogers, jackson, wright, mcdonald, wimbley, cribbs, zastudil. it's about all of them. it's mangini's responsibility to win for lerner, the team, and for US. if he feels DA gives that best chance, he's going to make that move and he's doing it. DA can't do worse than what quinn has done. no 3rd down completions against the ravens whereas DA had 3 out of the 4 in the one drive alone.
i don't think mangini's job is in danger, i think he's going to the plan that said "if quinn played liek crap, DA'll go in." i'm sure he had plans for "if quinn played amazing" as well as "if quinn is injured" but i don't think this is a knee-jerk action and it's definitely not motivated by fear.
jmho
the other part of my reply can be found in my reply to attack on my feelings about evaluating in a short period of time.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mangini: QB decision on Wednesday
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