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It boils down AGAIN,,, a win is a win,,, a loss is a loss.... 
Not even close. This loss felt like the other losses? Really?
This team fought and got behind DA. That was obvious by the score and the fight w/in the team.
This loss is nothing like the games BQ produced.
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DA, in his interview after the game made mention of trying to throw it low so that if Heiden couldn't get it, nobody would. Well, that sounds like he ment to throw it right where he did and Heiden wasn't where he was supposed to be. (Pure speculation part, I must admit)
If Heiden stops and sits down it's likely a TD.. I'm not sure that was the play though.. I believe DA did throw it exactly where he wanted to.. whether or not that is where Heiden was supposed to be, I don't know.
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Yes that is close. In the end, DA could throw 29 TDs and 1 int for the year but if we end 0-16 what does it matter.
Peyton Manning wouldn't be as highly thought of as he is if even with his HoF stats the team always lost.
You can only make the post-season based on 1 stat. wins and losses, and even though the team played a great game and came along way from weeks 1-3, we still are 0-4.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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It's still a loss.. what excuse is it gonna be next week ???? all he is ,,,, IS a backup qb.... 
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AD,, I gotta tell you,, this is what I saw,, I saw Heiden go outside instead of inside.. had he gone in it appears he'd of had the angle,,
Angle of what? Did you see # 59 with inside position also waiting?
Just like DA..you didn't either..had Heiden tried that he was right into another defender..amazes me U guys can't read these things.. of course you aren't seeing what I did..thats all too obvious..
DA, in his interview after the game made mention of trying to throw it low so that if Heiden couldn't get it, nobody would. Well, that sounds like he ment to throw it right where he did and Heiden wasn't where he was supposed to be.
How did you conclude that from what he said? 
He's saying he knew that a defender was there and a low throw should prevent it from being picked..he was wrong in his judgement..
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If Heiden stops and sits down it's likely a TD.. I'm not sure that was the play though.. I believe DA did throw it exactly where he wanted to.. whether or not that is where Heiden was supposed to be, I don't know.
Based on two pieces of evidence, the replay AD provided, and DA's comments, I tend to think that Heiden went the wrong way.. Now, do I know that for sure,, Of course not..
I just find it hard to accept the slam against DA on that play.. Simply cause it isn't clear. I think there is room for doubt..
#GMSTRONG
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With U , you always want to straddle the fence..the only chance would have been for D to throw to Edwards..Heiden had too many people lurking around him..like I said had he looked off Heiden , Edwards man would not have dropped back..he locked on him to soon.. you doubt because you aren't sure..  don't make it sound like the whole thing is in doubt..it isn't.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/05/09 01:34 PM.
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The problem wasn't the route though, it was Anderson staring at Heiden from the snap of the ball. You simply cannot stare down a receiver into zone coverage.
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I just find it hard to accept the slam against DA on that play.. Simply cause it isn't clear. I think there is room for doubt..
I'm not slamming DA.. far from it. My opinion is that DA threw it right where he wanted it, Heiden wasn't expecting it there.. One of them misread the defense or made a mistake. I don't know which one.... Don't really care at this point, just fix it so it doesn't happen again.
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I just find it hard to accept the slam against DA on that play.. Simply cause it isn't clear. I think there is room for doubt..
I'm not slamming DA.. far from it. My opinion is that DA threw it right where he wanted it, Heiden wasn't expecting it there.. One of them misread the defense or made a mistake. I don't know which one.... Don't really care at this point, just fix it so it doesn't happen again.
"BINGO",,,, we have bingo,,, "everyone hold their cards". 
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agreed. they said it was a miscommunication and that's how it looked. like i said, iron all this stuff out for the steelers in two weeks 
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very true,, but then again,, if DA was the answer,,,, the Oz would have kept him in Baltimore and not have released him....
They did try to keep him, he was on there practice squad I believe and we claimed him.
We claimed him off of waivers. The conventional wisdom was that Baltimore wanted to put him on their PS. but we picked him up before they could.
What a great move that was too.... backup will all he'll be...
let me guess...You just had your 10th birthday and decided to start watching football.
We paid zero for DA. ZERO. How is that a bad decision? Even if he was our #2 QB the whole time he was here it was a great pickup, considering we paid ZERO for him.
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very true,, but then again,, if DA was the answer,,,, the Oz would have kept him in Baltimore and not have released him....
They did try to keep him, he was on there practice squad I believe and we claimed him.
We claimed him off of waivers. The conventional wisdom was that Baltimore wanted to put him on their PS. but we picked him up before they could.
What a great move that was too.... backup will all he'll be...
let me guess...You just had your 10th birthday and decided to start watching football.
We paid zero for DA. ZERO. How is that a bad decision? Even if he was our #2 QB the whole time he was here it was a great pickup, considering we paid ZERO for him.
Let me think  since I was sitting in the stands in 1964 when they won their last championship,, I think I've had a couple birthdays,, .
What are we paying him now ?????? 
We've really been winning alot since sept. 2005 with him....
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If Heiden stops and sits down it's likely a TD.. I'm not sure that was the play though.. I believe DA did throw it exactly where he wanted to.. whether or not that is where Heiden was supposed to be, I don't know.
Based on two pieces of evidence, the replay AD provided, and DA's comments, I tend to think that Heiden went the wrong way.. Now, do I know that for sure,, Of course not..
I just find it hard to accept the slam against DA on that play.. Simply cause it isn't clear. I think there is room for doubt..
First - If Heiden went the wrong way, why compound the error?
Second - If you look at the play from the camera angle of DA, the cornerback was playing zone b/c he knew he had help over top....If you look at the play again, as soon as he got to the goal line he stopped and turned around (and the ball was there)
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It's rather simple:
Anderson thought it was man, the corner left his guy and picked off the pass, so either it was actually zone and Anderson screwed up, or the corner went rogue and made a play.
My firm belief is that Anderson just didn't recognize zone.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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With U , you always want to straddle the fence..
as opposed to what, throwing a guy under a bus when it's not clear he made an error? geesh..
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you doubt because you aren't sure.. don't make it sound like the whole thing is in doubt..it isn't.
So,all of a sudden it's not good to be sure before you throw someone under a bus? again Geesh
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Mangini said in his presser he thought the ball just got away from DA. He wanted to see the end zone view because he thought the DB may have trapped it. I guess the networks were short on camera's this week and decided to use them elsewhere. 
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Carry on Daman..when it comes to pinpointing things you always want to be in the middle..
O.k..you aren't sure..thats fine..but I am 
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Carry on Daman..when it comes to pinpointing things you always want to be in the middle..
O.k..you aren't sure..thats fine..but I am
Good answer.. 
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Heiden had too many people lurking around him..like I said had he looked off Heiden , Edwards man would not have dropped back..he locked on him to soon.. you doubt because you aren't sure.. don't make it sound like the whole thing is in doubt..it isn't.
One of the things I noticed with DA yesterday which is the polar opposite of Quinn is that where Quinn seems to go through his progressions too quickly, DA seems to go through them too slowly. He always locks onto his first option, and it seems will throw it that direction most of the time. If he does go through a progression, it seems like it is only on the same side of the field. I rarely see him scan the field side to side. On the oft chance he does get around to the other side of the field, he is in scramble mode by that time. He does not see the entire field well and in a timely manner.
I think part of the problem is he has so much confidence in his arm that he feels he can get it to his first option no matter what. I think the rest of the problem may be between the ears, but I'd like to see if he can improve in this area.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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We've really been winning alot since sept. 2005 with him....
Yes, b/c the end result i purely dependent on the QB. No other players or personnel, just QB.
Rather amusing some of the comments around here.
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One of the things I noticed with DA yesterday which is the polar opposite of Quinn is that where Quinn seems to go through his progressions too quickly, DA seems to go through them too slowly. He always locks onto his first option, and it seems will throw it that direction most of the time. If he does go through a progression, it seems like it is only on the same side of the field. I rarely see him scan the field side to side. On the oft chance he does get around to the other side of the field, he is in scramble mode by that time. He does not see the entire field well and in a timely manner.
Totally agree with you on this..he trusts his arm too much..rarely does he look at one side and go to the other..
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Carry on Daman..when it comes to pinpointing things you always want to be in the middle..
O.k..you aren't sure..thats fine..but I am
Good for you,,, I'm glad you are so convinced..
I'm not. That doesn't make me less observent than you, it means we are seeing the same video, and come to different conclusions..
I'll take my way, at least I don't throw a guy under a bus if he doesn't deserve it..
Oh, Dawgbone, it's an answer, but it might not be the right one.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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I make a point? Maybe, but not on the last post..this one...sure
quit giving DA garbage about how he throws a pass
have you ever heard the phrase used by Brett Farve often, its called "The ball comes out HOT"
when the ball comes out HOT he IS NOT talking about a "hot read" he is talking about when he rifles the ball in their a second sooner than normal..
Ask Mark Chumura or Bubba Franks about when the ball comes off "HOT"
the point is ANY PASS THROWN IN THE NFL THAT HITS THE RECEIVER IN THE HANDS OR IS WITHIN 8-10 INCES OF THE RECEIVER IS A CATCHABLE BALL THAT MUST BE CAUGHT PERIOD!
This is the NFL for God's sake, not high school
chalk up Royal, Furrey, Edwards, and Harrison for dropping passes...all passes that were catchable balls
"great receivers" adjust to the ball and catch it..see Jerry Rice, Steve Largent, Art Monk, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Michael Irvin, Webster Slaughter, Ozzie Newsome, Sterling Sharpe, Shannon Sharpe, Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitgerald, Chris Carter, Herman Moore, Bret Perriman,
need I go on?
I saw the Steelers receivers adjust "many times" last night...many times...catching balls behind them, high, and in front of them
when the ball comes to you in the NFL you "catch it" don't give me this nitpick crap about high, low, side, etc...
a decent receiver "slows down his route" when he sees the ball coming slightly behind....
I seen Momass make a good adjustment on the ball yesterday, Robo is known for this out of Ohio State
Edwards don't put forth good effort anymore, and Winslow used to make adjustments as well because "IT WAS HIS JOB"
to expect a receiver to have a perfect pass thrown to him all the time is unreasonable....you just finding reasons to give DA a hard time...thats all this is
ANY ball that touches the intended receiver should be caught period...Phil Simms and Dan Marino summed this up quite nicely
quit making excuses for us having guys like Royal, Edwards, and others who can't consistently catch a football..
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chalk up Royal, Furrey, Edwards, and Harrison for dropping passes...all passes that were catchable balls
"great receivers" adjust to the ball and catch it..
I've seen Browns receivers do that quite a bit too.. you seem to be incredibly upset that they can't adjust and contort to catch EVERY ball thrown in their direction.
And I'm sorry, when a guy is just coming out of his break and doesn't have his head around yet and the ball hits him in the head, that is NOT a catchable ball.
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ANY ball that touches the intended receiver should be caught period...Phil Simms and Dan Marino summed this up quite nicely
quit making excuses for us having guys like Royal, Edwards, and others who can't consistently catch a football..
Saying something like that in defense of a guy who has trouble consistently throwing one seems a bit misplaced to me. DA has been bailed out on many many occassions by receivers that caught borderline uncatchable balls.. more than once he has laid a guy out to get his head taken off because he led them right into an oncoming defender with a high pass... And some of his passes, to open receivers, are just flat out bad...
You know, it is possible to say you like DA and still admit that not all of his throws and/or decisions have been great...
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I will admit that DCdawg
not all of Da's throws are perfect, No Qb are
but i can think of passes to Royal and Furrey that should have been caught that wins us that football game..the pass to Furrey went right though his hands, Royal, hit him right in the facemask....a ball that hits you in the facemask should be caught
Yes I admit, Not all of Da's passes are perfect, sometimes, they are god awful off big time
yesterday however, was the best best I had seen him throw the short stuff in sometime
I think the Furry thing was just a timing issue, but the Roayal pass should have been caught...that pass probably wins us the game..
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quit giving DA garbage about how he throws a pass
I will, when he quits throwing garbage passes.. have you ever heard the phrase used by Brett Farve often, its called "The ball comes out HOT"
No, what does that have to do with DA? I wonder...guess you'll show me..
when the ball comes out HOT he IS NOT talking about a "hot read" he is talking about when he rifles the ball in their a second sooner than normal..
Ask Mark Chumura or Bubba Franks about when the ball comes off "HOT"
Farve..DA..are they the same QB on the same team?
Uh..didn't think so.. next! the point is ANY PASS THROWN IN THE NFL THAT HITS THE RECEIVER IN THE HANDS OR IS WITHIN 8-10 INCES OF THE RECEIVER IS A CATCHABLE BALL THAT MUST BE CAUGHT PERIOD!
Is that what you heard?
Who told you that?
Walmart is now making coaching rules for NFL football? This is the NFL for God's sake, not high school Even high schoolers know more than that mess you just typed out.. "great receivers" adjust to the ball and catch it..see Jerry Rice, Steve Largent, Art Monk, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Michael Irvin, Webster Slaughter, Ozzie Newsome, Sterling Sharpe, Shannon Sharpe, Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitgerald, Chris Carter, Herman Moore, Bret Perriman,
And they all had accuate (touch )QB's throwing to them right?..next! when the ball comes to you in the NFL you "catch it" don't give me this nitpick crap about high, low, side, etc...
a decent receiver "slows down his route" when he sees the ball coming slightly behind....
I know..street ballers do that a lot..PRO recievers can't always do that in full stride.. sucks a lot to be that way.. Edwards don't put forth good effort anymore, and Winslow used to make adjustments as well because "IT WAS HIS JOB"
it was K2's job to make adjusments???  
I thought it was to be a threat down the field..guess I was wrong..I never saw him make a adjusment on a route..oh well.. ANY ball that touches the intended receiver should be caught period...Phil Simms and Dan Marino summed this up quite nicely
Hmm I rarely saw Marino throw into the turf or the guy's helmet or the back of his neck or the opposite shoulderpad or shoetop..but what the hey.. quit making excuses for us having guys like Royal, Edwards, and others who can't consistently catch a football.. O.k..ALL HAIL DA! ALL HAIL DA!!
With all that turkey/ham/bologne you just laid on me ..I don't want any dinner tonite..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/05/09 03:43 PM.
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but i can think of passes to Royal and Furrey that should have been caught that wins us that football game..the pass to Furrey went right though his hands, Royal, hit him right in the facemask....a ball that hits you in the facemask should be caught
I will chalk the Royal pass up to the fact that Royal, in his time here, has probably NEVER come out of his break and had the ball right there like that. I honestly don't know if he got his head around quickly enough or not... The way it looked to me, DA should have waited another half second to throw the ball.. regardless, it was a good throw, I just think it was a hair early....
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I think the Furry thing was just a timing issue, but the Roayal pass should have been caught...that pass probably wins us the game..
I can think of half a dozen plays that could have changed the outcome of the game.. a couple of them are on DA, some of them are not... the Harrison fumble obviously not on DA, the int in the endzone partially on DA until somebody convinces me that DA was exactly right and Heiden was exactly wrong, a few drops that would have extended drives, any one of which could have changed the game, the last play which would have been a drive extending first down and not given the Bengals the ball back which was WAY behind Furrey, that one is on DA...
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I expect nothing less from you Attack, nothing less
You can live in your little fairy tale land all you want...have fun
Da throws "HOT" balls sometimes...just like Farve,..Manning does it alot too....gys need to learn to catch it
Also, don't give me this hoopla...the guy is getting paid "millions" to catch a football...it is not unreasonable to expect a professional to catch under the previous parameters regularly....
As i said, not all of DA's passes were good, there were a few that I am sure he wished he could have back...I am just staing there is atleast 4 balls that were right on the money that were dropped....its unacceptable.....
you can blame DA all you want, but our receivers are just as much to blame as he is....its an even trade between an errant throw, and a throw right on the money that was dropped
but I am not having this argument with you any longer...your exactly the type of guy that wouldn't care if Joe Montana was our QB...if he doesn't throw every pass 100% perfect..you won't be happy
As a matter of fact, Peyton Manning throws behind his receiver 8-10 times a game...his guys still manage to catch the ball...have some of those apples...
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This is the Pure Football Forum not the smack smack.
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Da throws "HOT" balls sometimes...just like Farve,..Manning does it alot too....gys need to learn to catch it
He's not Farve, he's certainly no Manning..or do U mean Eli??? It's apparent DA needs to learn to be more accurate. I am just staing there is atleast 4 balls that were right on the money that were dropped....its unacceptable.....
There were 8-10 more that were inaccurate..including the pick..so whatcha trying to say? but I am not having this argument with you any longer... Shoulda stopped before you responded to me..but hard heads make for soft behinds  ...your exactly the type of guy that wouldn't care if Joe Montana was our QB...if he doesn't throw every pass 100% perfect..you won't be happy
Snap! If Montanna were here ..man this offense would be off the charts..(moment of excitement)..but he isn't..(reality) ...anything else U want me to try to believe?
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not eveyone can be as perfect as you..
That was kind of a dumb comment when you think about,, I'm the one that is saying I'm not ready to throw someone under the bus because there isn't proof that he made a mistake
You and AD are clearly prepared to do that on what I consider thin evidence..
I'm pretty sure that doesn't make me any more or less perfect than you,, just different.. But, think what you like,,
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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not eveyone can be as perfect as you..
That was kind of a dumb comment when you think about,, I'm the one that is saying I'm not ready to throw someone under the bus because there isn't proof that he made a mistake
You and AD are clearly prepared to do that on what I consider thin evidence..
I'm pretty sure that doesn't make me any more or less perfect than you,, just different.. But, think what you like,,
I will,,, just like you and everyone else on here...
oh,,, watch out,,, look both ways,, the bus might just be coming...
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You know, it is possible to say you like DA and still admit that not all of his throws and/or decisions have been great...
Just wondering, which QB, past or present, can't that be said about.
Montana was great,, not perfect
Marino was great, no perfect
I could go on and on,, But you get the point. DA isn't either of those guys so don't misunderstand me. DA needs to improve, but I get what Knight is trying to say.
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And I'm sorry, when a guy is just coming out of his break and doesn't have his head around yet and the ball hits him in the head, that is NOT a catchable ball.
hard to disagree with that DC.. but let me just throw something out for you to toss around. What if, and I'm not saying this is the case cause I don't know, but what if Royal was supposed break sooner and he didn't, but by then it's too late, DA had already thrown the ball?
Is that still a bad throw, or a bad route by the receiver?
#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
You and AD are clearly prepared to do that on what I consider thin evidence..
thin evidence..tapes don't lie Daman..it wasn't blurry Daman..3 defenders within 5-8 feet of him..
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 104
Practice Squad
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Practice Squad
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 104 |
Quote:
You and AD are clearly prepared to do that on what I consider thin evidence..
thin evidence..tapes don't lie Daman..it wasn't blurry Daman..3 defenders within 5-8 feet of him..
Yes,,, take the blinders off....
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,767
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,767 |
Looking back, I think Eli Manning in his first year especially, looked like DA now. Alot of similarly thrown balls and mistakes. Eli has a few more games under his belt now and certainly not beyond a bad toss or decision but we could only hope DA breaks through the plateau he's seemingly stuck on
and progresses like Manning did. I would not be willing to bet that he does
but I will continue to hope it happens and DA steps his game up!
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044 |
we have nothing to lose and everything to gain by allowing DA to develop. i've charted his progression alongside eli's career and he's done more than eli in less time at DA's current point of development. will DA continue to develop? don't know but the signs show that he's continuing to improve. hopefully we see consistency the next few weeks.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Quote:
not eveyone can be as perfect as you..
What was the point of this statement?
Doesn't matter because I think you and brownorangedragon are borderline troll territory anyways 
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Well, DA's not the answer
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