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I could go back and read some of your posts to point examples but I don't really care to prove my point. You did blame DA for costing us seven points on the pick..That was made up. Actually made up is probably the wrong phrase.. laying things out as facts which aren't is more like it... You said it was a certainty that we would have got a TD. That's BS. You tried to turn it around on me which was pretty weak considering I never defended him on that play.
Yeah I did blame him and I still do..what problem do U have?
If I can look at the tape see he made a stupid decision I'm going to point it out..his fault..
Anyone trying to say oh if he got the pass there , it isn't a guarantee it would be a TD just needs to give it up..thats soo lame it's pathic..even though I hammer DA , i won't go to that extreme..he cost the Browns a TD..he made the throw with 3 defenders around 1 reciever..any player who costs the Browns a TD is in that same position.
Making up something would be for me to say the play called was such n such..which I don't know nor care to..dude made a quick decision and let it fly and thought he could get in ..he said as much when he said he tried to throw it so if Heiden couldn't get no one could..well it wasn't low enough..and I argued with Daman that he knew a defender was there otherwise the pass goes higher and he doesn't make that remark.
You came in the discussion so I lumped you..now maybe I shouldn't have done it so I take it back.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/06/09 12:06 PM.
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thanks. I try to get my panties out of a bunch.
#gmstrong
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Whether U have panties or boy shorts I ain't letting U off so easy... 
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I don't confuse anything..your stance at pimping DA and trying to make him some HOF QB is what is confusing...
Now I know you're off your rocker. Phil doesn't like anybody, let alone pimp someone. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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I don't confuse anything..your stance at pimping DA and trying to make him some HOF QB is what is confusing...
I'd look into some reading comprehension courses, chief.
Where have I ever said anything even remotely close to that?
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If Kyle Orton is the answer in Denver---then I don't see why DA can't be the answer here.
You guys that constantly criticize DA need to give it a rest.
At some point you just need to accept the guy for what he is and lets move on with this franchise.
Too many years and drafts have been wasted while we fight over who the QB is. We have a guy who can play the position so we minds well go with him and start addressing other holes in the team.
I hope Mangini does this. If he doesn't---then we are in for another 5 years of hell.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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That's fair. At this point I feel the same way. This team needs more than a QB, right now. The upcoming drafts should be used to shore up the OL and LB core and add a stud RB.
Then dump DA.
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If Kyle Orton is the answer in Denver---then I don't see why DA can't be the answer here.
You guys that constantly criticize DA need to give it a rest.
At some point you just need to accept the guy for what he is and lets move on with this franchise.
Read your first sentence and your last.
Currently, DA is what he is. Which isn't great. Not horrible. But not great. Nothing that makes you say 'this is the guy'.
Now, the 'this guy can't be great' argument is flawed and a little heavy-handed, as well...but at the current juncture, that argument holds more water as far as the track record.
DA's fate is in his own hands now. Any QB can be excused for having a poor surrounding cast...but that excuse only lasts so long.
I don't think he'll hear many more 'Brady' chants, either, so excuse time is over. Ball is in your boy's court.
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Then dump DA.
For who?
As in, who would be the QB to replace him in the next year or two? BQ isn't working out so far... yeah maybe we draft a QB in 2010 or 2011, but what does that guarantee?
I give props to guys like dong and tyler because while we've had a lot of uncertain info to work with, they've been smarter about the QB situation the past month or so than a lot of us. Including the coaches and 98.6 per cent of the fans.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Quote:
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Then dump DA.
For who?
As in, who would be the QB to replace him in the next year or two? BQ isn't working out so far... yeah maybe we draft a QB in 2010 or 2011, but what does that guarantee?
I give props to guys like dong and tyler because while we've had a lot of uncertain info to work with, they've been smarter about the QB situation the past month or so than a lot of us. Including the coaches and 98.6 per cent of the fans.
What... I'm always included on the naughty list with those guys....but when the props come... i'm left off? LOL 
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Quote:
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Then dump DA.
For who?
As in, who would be the QB to replace him in the next year or two? BQ isn't working out so far... yeah maybe we draft a QB in 2010 or 2011, but what does that guarantee?
Sorry, I should have said...
Then dump DA (if he hasn't progressed) when we have the opportunity to grab a legit franchise guy. Be it in the draft or a Brees/Cutler type trade.
I've stayed out of the QB talk for the most part. I rooted for Quinn when he started and I've rooted for DA when he starts. The only posts I've ever stated anything on, as it pertains to DA, is mentioning his college play. I saw him play a lot in college. He is now what he was then. The type of guy who throws 57 picks in college.
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I disagree.
I think he has shown some grown; in that he is more careful with the ball.
He has also shown improvement with short passes, and touch throws.
I think he could definitely lead this team into the future.
He has that attitude where nothing seems to rattle him.
IMO, we should give him the position and build this team.
If he is a FAIL two or three years from now---then we should have the pieces in place to draft a guy to come in and run things.
Until then---he is certainly QB enough to keep us competitive and in the hunt while he is gaining experience as a player.
It ain't some kind of fluke that the guy is where he is.
No matter how you slice it---the guy can play ball.
Let him roll this season, and next season.
I believe that he is capable---and with enough talent around him---he can get us where we want.
Why Cleveland fans can't settle on one guy to lead the team is stupid to me.
Pick a guy and go---everyone knows the flavor of the week crap doesn't last. DA has shown ability through three seasons.
Thats enough for me to get behind him.
And obviously, enough for NFL minds to get behind him.
What it will takes for messageboard GM's to get behind him---not to sure.
What it takes for the rest of Cleveland to get behind him---prolly a miracle.
Sad but true
I really hope Mangini makes the right decision here. If he does--then you folks will have to get used to DA for awhile.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Quote:
He is now what he was then. The type of guy who throws 57 picks in college.
What about the type of guy who throws 79 TD passes in college?
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Just clicking
I don't see where we have any choice in the matter.. I don't see where Mangini has any choice in the matter either.
He either rides the rail with DA or switches back to Quinn.
For better or worse, this is DA's team. They respond to him. They play harder for him. don't ask me why, I don't know. They just do.
So all this chatter about DA's each and every fault is, well, it's getting old.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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He is now what he was then. The type of guy who throws 57 picks in college.
What about the type of guy who throws 79 TD passes in college?
Ask the Beaver fans around here what they remember more. Believe me the response will be the boneheaded, game breaking int's.
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Sorry, DA doesn't get next season unless this season is vastly improved. In his "great" 2007 season he was still only the 17th rated passer in the NFL. Last year he was bad. If he doesn't look like a top half NFL QB by game 13 (I am going to discount anyone's stats in the last 3 games of this schedule) then we need to draft a top QB and give him the go from day 1 like Stafford and Ryan. This team needs a real QB and we haven't had one since Kosar (and as of right now that includes DA).
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Sorry not going to read the 6 pages...no disrespect to the couple of excellent posts that are there.
But DA is exactly who I thought he was. I've maintained he is an NFL QB that can win games. I've also maintained there is no doubt in my mind that he cannot lead us to a Championship.
Well guess what? I don't think we are going to win a Championship in 09. But we do need to win games.
Just remember.... we are 0-4 but the Vikings are 4-0. Denver is 4-0. Ravens are 3-1 and the Bengals are 3-1 (should be 4-0).
But we are growing into a new system on O as well as Defense. DA showed me he is who I thought...but that also included the ability to get an offensive Flow if we (the OL) were able to provide a comfort zone.
What he showed me in the 4th n OT periods. Was exactly what we were getting from BQ...conservative decisions. Looking not to lose a game. No comfort in the pocket when the pressure was taken care of by the OL.
But right now he is the best bet to get this teams some wins! And this team need some wins to grow! I could care less if its DA or BQ...right now both are proving to be Stop Gaps until we get our QB of the future. Hey if we can get some picks for either one...2nd rounder or better. Worth the while taking a QB with our first pick even if it means losing out on Taylor Mays!! Man I want that kid 
JMHO - stick with DA.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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J/C
How many of you would change your mind about Mangini bringing Farve with him to the Browns?
#gmstrong
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J/C
How many of you would change your mind about Mangini bringing Farve with him to the Browns?
Not me. I don't care how Favre is doing, I don't want any part of him.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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No kidding ... it would be strange rooting for the Browns while hoping our QB got drilled on every down.  
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How many of you would change your mind about Mangini bringing Farve with him to the Browns?
Not me either,, we don't have Peterson and he's what's making it better for Favre..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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J/C
How many of you would change your mind about Mangini bringing Farve with him to the Browns?
Pretty sure Favre wanted to go to a team that 1. could win right away and 2. played the Packers twice. He found both of those in Minnesota, he would have found neither of them here.
And as Mangini said about starting Quinn, you go with the information you have at the time.. at the time, we thought we had 2 decent QBs to choose from (and still might, I will throw that out there).. but QB didn't appear to be a big need. Both QBs are young and to sit them both and stop their development for a year so you can start Favre, when we weren't going anywhere anyway... seems kind of stupid.
yebat' Putin
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He is now what he was then. The type of guy who throws 57 picks in college.
What about the type of guy who throws 79 TD passes in college?
add in his 23 lost fumbles....that's 80 turnovers to 79TDs.
not a good ratio in the NFL....horrible ratio in college.
however, I'm going to give him the benefit o the doubt. I think Mangini's system can benefit him as he'll be yelled at to checkdown more often.
this might be the better fit just because DA will be fighting his mind to go downfield all the time (which he will when it's there) and Mangini will be fighting to go short when it's there (which he will more often as its being rattled in his ear).
maybe this will workout like Bernie in the Schottenheimer years.
#gmstrong
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Then dump DA.
For who?
As in, who would be the QB to replace him in the next year or two? BQ isn't working out so far... yeah maybe we draft a QB in 2010 or 2011, but what does that guarantee?
I give props to guys like dong and tyler because while we've had a lot of uncertain info to work with, they've been smarter about the QB situation the past month or so than a lot of us. Including the coaches and 98.6 per cent of the fans.
Sorry, but that's B.S. It's hysterical that you believe that. They haven't been proven any more right than anyone else.
Honestly, did a decent game by Anderson, which still resulted in a loss, turn people into believing we now know we should build a team around this savior?
He did the same thing I worry about with him constantly....gave up a killer interception among other weaknesses that were apparent in the game.
This board gets funnier every damn day, I can't imagine why I stay away.
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Honestly, did a decent game by Anderson, which still resulted in a loss, turn people into believing we now know we should build a team around this savior?
No one is saying that DA is the savior, but what people are saying is that he is a quality NFL starting quarterback who probably will get better. The Browns have MUCH bigger problems then DA right now and it only makes sense to address those positions (RB, RT, LB, S) before we go after a new quarterback. DA will most likely finish out this season as the starter unless he completely falls on his face, and IMO he should be the starter next season as well. As someone said, the ball is in his court right now. It is his job to lose.
![[Linked Image from i161.photobucket.com]](http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t215/nick_ogrin/ogdawg.jpg) Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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No one is saying that DA is the savior,
Have you read any of Derden's posts?
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what people are saying is that he is a quality NFL starting quarterback who probably will get better.
and what Jules is saying.. is that he's not.
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The Browns have MUCH bigger problems then DA right now and it only makes sense to address those positions (RB, RT, LB, S) before we go after a new quarterback.
This much I agree with....
yebat' Putin
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lamp, thank you for the kind words. i think it's a little premature to say anyone is "right" but i appreciate you going out of your way to give me some credit, deserved or undeserved.
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Sorry, but that's B.S. It's hysterical that you believe that. They haven't been proven any more right than anyone else.
Well they defended DA and called for him to start before pre-season (& for the record, I wanted BQ to get the nod to see what we have in him. So far... no good. )
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Honestly, did a decent game by Anderson, which still resulted in a loss, turn people into believing we now know we should build a team around this savior?
I'm not sure he's the saviour, not by any stretch. I haven't even given up on BQ, either.
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He did the same thing I worry about with him constantly....gave up a killer interception among other weaknesses that were apparent in the game.
Yeah he did, I am well-aware of DA's shortcomings and don't sugarcoat them... he also moved the football, scored some points and gave us a chance to win vs. Bungles.
I am pragmatic when it comes to QBs... win games, you're my boy. Lose games while looking brutal, see 'ya later.
gmstrong -----------------
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What about when you win, but look brutal ?  Just for the record, DA had us in the Cincy game for sure, but didn't do anything in the OT to win it. I call that a choke.
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What about when you win, but look brutal ?
Pragmatism, as I said.
And really... unless DA implodes, or BQ takes off, I'd rather go with DA next season and not draft a QB at all next April. A FA quarterback I could live with depending on who it is, but I wanna go defence in the draft and would be willing to cast my lot with Anderson in 2010.
Of course, I reserve the right to change my mind at any time, including next Sunday.
Last edited by lampdogg; 10/13/09 08:50 PM.
gmstrong -----------------
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Just for the record, DA had us in the Cincy game for sure,
If by that you mean he did the bare minimum to not screw it up.. then he sure did.
He and the offense got the ball on the 34 and gave up a touchdown the other way, got the ball on the 18 and kicked a FG, got the ball on the 14 and kicked a FG, and threw an INT on the 8...... yea, HE kept us in it. 
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but didn't do anything in the OT to win it. I call that a choke.
How can you call 4 for 9 for 24 yards and 2 first downs in 3 possessions choking?
yebat' Putin
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DA also led us to 20 points. He threw a touch and ran one.
He gave the defense a REAL reason to actually play the whole game.
And saying that the loss lies on DA is just stupid. How about JH's fumble. How about letting Carson freaking Palmer scramble for 15 yards. How about going down 14-0 and not really even seeing the ball in the first quarter.
That loss is on THE TEAM----not one guy.
DA did his job---and that is why the team believes in him and so does Mangini.
BQ NEVER did his part.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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He and the offense got the ball on the 34 and gave up a touchdown the other way,
Now that you mentioned it, when I went back and re-watched that play I saw it was DA who stripped the ball out of Jerome Harrison's hands on that fumble.
Seriously, how can you even begin to lay that on DA in any way, shape or form?
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It seems obvious, for whatever reason, that the team seems to respond better to Anderson. (Last week's drops aside)
The team seems to have more confidence when he's at the helm. I don;t know why .... but it sure looks that way from the living room.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Don't know for sure about personalities, but I honestly think the team respects DA cuz he has enough nuts to throw the ball downfield, get some first downs and score points. Something you-know-who wasn't doing.
gmstrong -----------------
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And I think that fans, all fans, see what they want to see.
DA sucks. Quinn, up to this point, does, too.
Unless Mangini has some kind of career death wish next year's QB isn't on the roster right now.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Unless Mangini has some kind of career death wish next year's QB isn't on the roster right now.
I thought that it would have been smart to get rid of both of them last season. But, here we are again...without a good, reliable QB. I really don't want to go through this again. Hopefully, Mangini doesn't either.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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DA did his job---
Would you have said that about Quinn if they handed him the ball on the 34 and got no points, the 14 and got no yards and a FG, the 18 and got no yards and a FG and ended the game in a tie?
No, it would be because Quinn sucked and you know it would...
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BQ NEVER did his part.
BQ led a very nice drive early in the Vikings game, 70 + yards to the 6.. know how he was rewarded? a handoff and 2 wildcat formations. Way to help the youngster build some confidence.
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J/C
I fell asleepmutiple times during the game and erased it without bothering to watch it.
I would like to hear from Ddubia on his takes regarding drops. GM as well. I think both of these guy have different opinions on our QBs but since they take the time too watch the games over and over I trust their judgment.
At this point I can't comprehend anything but DA sucking. The thing with DA is going 10-17 is a typical type game. He can't afford too many drops because his lack of accuracy.
#gmstrong
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You didn't ask for my take, but here it is anyway DA was DA... no touch on his passes, everything looked like it was fired from a high-powered rifle, and often one with a bent barrel. There were several drops... but if you have the same thing happening with multiple receivers, you have to look outside of those receivers for the common denominator... and that is DA gunning things in there from 7 yards away.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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