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Well now we've managed to loose or trade all 4 receivers from last season. This can't be good. I guess we are throwing in the towel this season.
OH THE HUMANITY!!!
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Here are the facts.
With the Edwards trade, we have eliminated one player with high potential.
Edwards has the height/weight and speed that are found in elite wide receivers.
It appeared he did not want to be here
Of four completed seasons, only 1 season exceeded 1,000 yards. And only one season would be considered worthy of a "number one receiver".
We did not get a player of Edwards potential back in the trade.
We received two players who seem to fit Mangini's blueprint for a player.
In theory, the third round pick should be an average/servicable NFL starter and the 5th round could turn into a special teams/NFL back-up.
This trade is about addition by subtraction and building a foundation for the future. Removing one player who did not want to be here and adding four players who will fit the system.
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I think the premise that we agree with is we need some impact players, and the chance of getting those increase greatly the higher you draft.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
I think the premise that we agree with is we need some impact players, and the chance of getting those increase greatly the higher you draft.
Without a doubt... 
yebat' Putin
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I've been saying all along, this team lacks star power, it lacks a difference maker...
Edwards and Quinn were supposed to be our difference makers. 
Forgot about Winslow as well.
I'm not saying we haven't tried to find one, I'm saying we haven't been successful at it.. that doesn't mean you stop trying.
Ok, agreed.
But let's move forward with the progression........
Are one or two "star" players going to make us better than three or four "quality" players, and going even further, if the team is much better and thus winning more, would players such as Winslow, Edwards, and Quinn be in the positions they are in?
I don't disagree about needing "star" players, but the teams that are winning more games were built with more talent across the board first.
I think it's smarter to build the overall talent first, then plug in a superstar or two in order to make that final push. If you don't have that overall talent, the superstars you attempt to bring in stand a much reduced chance of success.
The Jets did just that, ironically enough.
Once they had a good team in place, they just went out and got a "superstar" in Edwards.
Vikings did the same. They had good lines, then drafted a "star" in Peterson, then signed a "star" in Favre.
There isn't one way to do it, but I believe the odds favor building the team first, which would mean acquiring more picks and developing the talent across the board. Once you do that, it becomes easier to acquire a "star" and see that player succeed.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I think that we're already in a position where we are now pretty well loaded with the average workman talent, and we just need a sprinkling of studs to really make it fire on all cylinders.
The only MAJOR needs I see are on the right side of the line (and if they continue to improve, I may change my feelings on that one) and the defensive backfield. That isn't a lot and we're not as far off as many might think we are.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I disagree whole-heartedly.
I think we're missing 3 linebackers going into the next year or 2, I think we're missing a #1 tailback (Lewis is essentially finished), I think we're missing at least one defensive end, we're missing one starting CB, one safety, and a guard and a tackle.
I also believe we're lacking quality depth in some key areas.
Remember, it was believed coming into the year that we had pretty decent talent. We've shown otherwise. Now, we've just traded away our most talented offensive player for a slot-guy and some mid-level picks. From a talent standpoint, we just went backwards.
I'd love to see another trade-down with our high 1st rounder, if it'll mean a quality 1st round guy and an additional starting-caliber guy in the 2nd round.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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No reason to trade our QB's..They are both learning the system. DA is the starter and BQ is the backup. BQ's salary is equal to a backup QB. Keep them both.
Purp says the same thing about BQ's salary, so I stand corrected and if that is the case I agree about keeping both.
They will get better if the team gets better.
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So, Toad, it seems to me that you expect to see this team truly compete not in 2010, but in 2011. Now, I'm guessing you're expecting a competitive team in 2010, but just not one that's going to be a true contender.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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j/c
I've heard that the incentive for the season is 85-90 catches on the season. Don't take it as gospel, but it's what I've heard.
I wish we would've held out for the 2nd. I have a feeling the Jets would have caved sooner or later. But I understand the urgency to get Braylon out of town. It sounds like he's been a bigger ass than ever this season.
I'm good with the trade. We have some young receivers on our roster, and it's obvious we aren't going anywhere far this season. Like Toad said, It's all about the future.
And despite what is being thrown around there, I don't see Stuckey as anything more than a slot guy. Maybe an average number two, but not likely. Braylon is far and away the better player.
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If Taylor Mays continues to drop, trading back to the teens to get him would be sweet.
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Awrrright.. lets see if I have this right.. with the help of this web site: http://www.draftinsiders.com/node/35NFL Draft 2010 Traded Picks Updated 10/1/09 <~~ Thats a problem here.. not updated as of today.. dammit NFL Free Agency Period starts March 5, 2010 thru July 2010 NFL Trading Period is open until Oct. 20, 2009 1st round - Normal first round pick 2nd round - Normal second round pick 2nd round - See 3rd round notes possible pick based on escalators 3rd round - Normal 3rd round pick 3rd round - Cleveland possible conditional pick from NY Jets - WR Braylon Edwards (Could climb to a 2nd round pick based on escalators) 4th round - Normal 4th round pick 5th round - Normal 5th round pick 5th round - Cleveland from Tampa Bay - TE Kellen Winslow (Browns also got #2 pick in '09 Draft) 5th round - Cleveland from NY Jets - WR Braylon Edwards 6th round - Normal 6th round pick 7th round - Normal 7th round pick? Other unknown Conditional picks: Cleveland from Carolina - DT Louis Leonard Ok guys.. what am I missing? I see other posters saying we have these picks I've listed and more?
SaintDawg™
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All Pro
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What you have looks right to me.
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Think about it this way... Another reason for LeBron NOT to go to New York! 
Cleveland Browns, Space Browns ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/iVP5Po2.png)
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What you have looks right to me.
Good.. Can anyone else confirm that? Also.. let me speculate that we get possibly as high as a 5th round pick for that conditional pick involving Louis Leonard?
SaintDawg™
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Thought he got hurt and was out for the season ??
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Leonard broke his ankle and was placed on IR, I believe, so I don't know what, if anything, we'll get for him now that he is out for the season. He played in 2 games, started 1, and had 6 tackles and 1 sack.
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Quote:
So, Toad, it seems to me that you expect to see this team truly compete not in 2010, but in 2011. Now, I'm guessing you're expecting a competitive team in 2010, but just not one that's going to be a true contender.
Right.
We've a bunch of spare parts starting in various positions who aren't long-term answers. That won't be fixed with marginal free agents, but rather quality draft choices.
We got half an offensive line, part of a defensive line, 1/4th of a linebacking group, half a secondary, no feature running back, two backup TE's, a serious lack of experience at the WR position, and two QB's who are either lost (Quinn) or limited in their upside (Anderson).
I don't see a quick-fix for 2010.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Thanks guys.. Leonard is in fact on IR with ankle.
I'd forgotten about that or just missed it. Hmm.. we prolly can forget about that conditional pick for now.
SaintDawg™
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Side note:
Thanks Phil Savage. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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That isn't that far off from what I see, but what I am seeing is that what we have there currently would be quality depth if we put something better in front of it.
RB is an area of need, but maybe not... it, like the right side of the line, may be something that is viewed differently by the end of the year.
Linebackers... .what we have is Ok, and what we have would be good if we put in a stud or two.
Safety is what I want with that Top5 pick.
The G/RT spots are like the RB to me... and something can easily be addressed in free agency.
It's the same view, just two different approaches I guess. You want to further build the depth, I think that our top tier will become nice depth if we put a better top tier in place in a few areas.
And I still feel we have plenty of talent on this team - it, exactly like last year, just hasn't been playing up to what it can do.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Awrrright.. lets see if I have this right.. with the help of this web site: http://www.draftinsiders.com/node/35
NFL Draft 2010 Traded Picks
Updated 10/1/09 <~~ Thats a problem here.. not updated as of today.. dammit
NFL Free Agency Period starts March 5, 2010 thru July 2010
NFL Trading Period is open until Oct. 20, 2009
1st round - Normal first round pick
2nd round - Normal second round pick
2nd round - See 3rd round notes possible pick based on escalators
3rd round - Normal 3rd round pick
3rd round - Cleveland possible conditional pick from NY Jets - WR Braylon Edwards (Could climb to a 2nd round pick based on escalators)
4th round - Normal 4th round pick
5th round - Normal 5th round pick
5th round - Cleveland from Tampa Bay - TE Kellen Winslow (Browns also got #2 pick in '09 Draft)
5th round - Cleveland from NY Jets - WR Braylon Edwards
6th round - Normal 6th round pick
7th round - Normal 7th round pick?
Other unknown Conditional picks:
Cleveland from Carolina - DT Louis Leonard
Ok guys.. what am I missing? I see other posters saying we have these picks I've listed and more?
Isn't the Winslow 5th round pick conditional? I thought it was based on his perfomance with the Bucs this year.
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Isn't the Winslow 5th round pick conditional? I thought it was based on his perfomance with the Bucs this year.
Hmm.. as far as I can tell we own the Bucs 5th rounder outright. The web site I referenced does not list that as a conditional pick and the cleveland.com page only says 5th round pick with nothing else attached to that.
SaintDawg™
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If Taylor Mays continues to drop, trading back to the teens to get him would be sweet.
... OR we could just take our pick of Berry or Mays at our likely Top 5 draft position this spring.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Man I think the jets just robbed us again. 
He was the only threat on our offense man this team is going to be a lot of fun to watch this year.
Basically, we just gave Edwards away like we did the 5th pick.
The Jests again??? I mean really??? Aren't there other teams to negotiate with?
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Wait, now you are changing it again.. Now you are talking career numbers vs recent, and your bringing QB's into the equation If you are gonna take Calvin Johnsons QB into account, then and look at the career,, then you have to think about Dilfer, Frye, DA, Quinn, Dorsey and that other guy we had for a game last year from Toledo I think. The ONLY QB that Edwards had that is worth mentioning then is DA.. All in all, not one bit of this really matters.. not even a little. BE is gone,, he's outta here. we have a new receiver that isn't nearly as heralded or notorious either for that matter.. Will he fill the void? Got me! But if he can catch, it's a step in the right direction.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
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I think the premise that we agree with is we need some impact players, and the chance of getting those increase greatly the higher you draft.
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Without a doubt...
And the more picks you acquire, the more you have to bargin with on Draft day if you are so inclined and wish to move up.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The ONLY QB that Edwards had that is worth mentioning then is DA..
It's funny though, if Edwards catches most of those that he dropped in the 1st eight games of '08 DA probably never goes to the bench.
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We have to remember too that this is a very deep draft class... and we will likely have 3 picks in the top 60---as long as Braylon does alright in NYC.
We can easily address S (Eric Berry), RB, RT in those two rounds.
I really really want Berry.... but we may decide to draft Trent Williams or Russell Okung and make that player our RT of the future (we would have to pay them LT money).... I hate investing 3 years worth of first round picks into our line though!
I think it is possible that we could draft Berry and get an impact RT in round 2 though. We may end up getting the #1 overall....so lets go with the #1 overall player in Eric Berry!
I can live with Anderson or Quinn for another season.... of course until we draft Jimmy Clausen after he decides to play another season at ND. lol.
over the next two seasons we have all these options at QB to draft - Pike, Tebow, Bradford, McCoy, Locker, Clausen, Z. Robinson, D. Lefeavor, and probably a few more I am forgetting (only Bradford, Pike, and Clausen entice me)
Therefore, this Edwards trade is the right thing to do... Chansi will grow into a fan favorite with his style of play. I really like him. We could end up getting a 3 top 60 picks next year and then have 3,4,5,5,5,6,7 to hopefully find a diamond in the rough. The class is deep and the more bodies we bring in the better. We can either go the QB route this year or next because let's face it, we're in rebuild mode. We are likely in the top 10 in next years draft as well...
I like our chances of turning this ship around in 2 years and being able to contend within the division.
Let's hope Robo Cop comes out and surprised everyone the remainder of this season. I really don't want to spend another first or second round pick on a WR.... even though I am pimping Dez Bryant.
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Here are the facts.
Edwards has the height/weight and speed that are found in elite wide receivers.
Not to disagree with what you said but just to point out the important facts.
I'll take an elite receiver without the height/weight, rather than the height/weight with out the elite receiver, any day of the week.
Steve Smith Height: 5-9 Weight: 185
Marvin Harrison Height: 6-0 Weight: 185
Anquan Boldin Height: 6-1 Weight: 217
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I think we're missing 3 linebackers going into the next year or 2,
I'll agree with 2.. I think DQ and Wimbley are fine... good. So use either the first or second round pick on a LB.. now we are kind of weak at 1 LB spot.
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I think we're missing a #1 tailback (Lewis is essentially finished)
I'm of the opinion that between Harrison, Davis, and Jennings, that we can make do at RB and may just have a pretty good one in there somewhere. But for the sake of argument fine, there is one of our 3rd round picks
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I think we're missing at least one defensive end, we're missing one starting CB, one safety
I agree about the safety, so wherever the better player is, at safety or OLB, you use the first round pick on that guy, you use the second round pick on the other..
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and a guard and a tackle.
You can find adequate right side of the OL either in the 4th round or in FA...
I just took care of almost every one of your needs in this draft... yes, it would be asking a lot to hit on all 4 or 5 of them and have them all produce... but I still like the chances of doing it my way and potentially coming out with a stud or two and two decent players than 4 or 5 decent players.. which is really what would happen.
So in my ideal draft we are going..
1st round - potential stud safety or OLB, which ever is better.
2nd round - whichever one we didn't pick in round 1
3rd round 1 - Best running back available
3rd round 2 - Best ILB available
4th round - Best OL to play RG or RT.. (prefer RT)
So if they all pan out, I know it would be unusual, but if they did.. where are our weaknesses now? According to you we are now weak at one CB spot..
On a side note, I'm surprised you didn't list WR as a need because it is still a big unknown (and I would say unlikely) if we are going to have a legit #1 WR going into next season.
yebat' Putin
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Was going back and looking at the 2007 draft. With our last pick in the 7th rd we selected Steptoe, the very next pick following was the jets who used it on Stuckey. Thought that was a little funny.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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I supposes if you compare it to the NE trade for Moss and giving up only a 4th, this isn't such a bad deal and Moss is a real receiver. We probably would have had to franchise him at the end of the year to keep him anyway and he wasn't producing enough to be worth a franchise tag.
On the surface I can't say I'm pleased that we are going into the next game with has-beens, rooks and a kick returner to catch passes, which means they'll stack the box again and shut down a run game. Overall though it was probably for the best.
#GMSTRONG
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Edwards might be 6'3" 205 and run a 4.4, but his attitude is that of a 4 year old and his ability to run routes, catch the ball, and focus on execution is probably slightly above that of a 10 year old running down the field yelling "I'm open James. James! James! James! I'm open." (sorry had to hear that today a lot while watching the kids at recess)
Therefore, I would take nearly any WR over Edwards right now.
I'll admit, I wanted Edwards so bad coming out of college. Thought he was one of the best I had ever watched. However, all he has done has turned me into a hater.
What's crazy is listening to him talk sometimes, you get the sense that he is very very intelligent and has a good head on his shoulder. It's a shame he doesn't have the focus and determination to play football at a high level and the self discipline to not punch a guy in a club whether its Lebrons buddy or not. He simply has failed to understand that this world is not his. He will claim the Cleveland Browns and their fans never did anything for him and didn't give him the opportunities to succeed. However, Braylon needs to ask himself one question... What did I ever give to the Cleveland Browns?
Maybe then he will realize all he has done is get into shouting matches on the sidelines with teammates, stick up for a WR on a rival team after a teammate lays him out, not come to practice because he was on the sidelines of the OSU-MICH game, drop 432 passes, call out the fans for hating on him because he went to Michigan, quit helping Cleveland's youth because a few fans said something mean to his father and mother during a meal, round off his routes, not pay for a $3 bottle of water (rumor), park in the Secretary parking spot (rumor), and punch LeBron's buddy at a Cleveland night club.
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If the Jets make it deep into the playoffs there is a chance Edwards can meet the escalator clause. It's possible, but unlikely.
Also, I liked hearing Mangini say Robiskie will have an opportunity for some playing time.
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Yeah..I'm glad he's gone and happy to say I never purchased a #17 jersey.
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The playoffs don't count for his stats.
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Yeah..I'm glad he's gone and happy to say I never purchased a #17 jersey.
I'd purchase a #17 jersey but only if it said Sipe on the back.
#GMSTRONG
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The playoffs don't count for his stats.
how do you know?
also, i've never understood why teams didn't put a specific postseason stuff into it....
like....Braylon catches 90 catches for the Jets this season (including postseason)....OR....Braylon catches 3TDs in the playoffs for the Jets.
If he catches 3 TDs, odds are Jets had a very good playoff run...because of Braylon. So, why not put that in there? Or have some teams and I just haven't heard of it?
#gmstrong
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Because postseason stats are never included with regular season ones...
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Braylon Edwards traded to the Jets
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