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Quote:
He's not insanely smart. Insanely smart is making a breakthrough in molecular physics.
Like Joe Thiesmann once said, "He's no genius. A genius is someone like Norman Einstein."
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Nope.
Peen: I love your mock, but at this point I see very little chance of Black dropping to the 3rd. Right now he's being projected as late 1st - early 3nd.
Logo: Same thing with yours. Kindle could end up a top 10 pick.
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Logo: Same thing with yours. Kindle could end up a top 10 pick.
I agree....I did a double-take when I saw the website had him there in the 2nd for us....heck, I was half-surprised that Spikes was there, but he's an ILB, so it makes some sense at least.
I think Kindle is a beast and that he'll be a great 3-4 OLB...but, if he's there in the 2nd round for us, I won't mind taking him 
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I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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A high 3rd. AKA the type the Browns are used to. 
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I'll give it a go....
Round 1- Jimmy Clausen, QB-Notre Dame
Round 2- Major Wright, FS- Florida
Round 3a- Rodney Hudson, G- Florida State
Round 3b- Micha Johnson, LB- Kentucky (I know, a homer pick, but this kid is going to be a good player at the next level).
Round 4- Reggie Carter, LB- UCLA
Round 5a- Will Tukuafu, DE- Oregon
Round 5b- Richard Dickson, TE- LSU
Round 6a- Ray Feinga, OG- BYU
Round 6b- Aaron Pettrey- K, Ohio State
Round 7- Jerome Murphy, CB- South Florida
First mock draft I've ever done... So don't critique it too hard lol.
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I'm not real big on Clausen or Wright, but many are. I like Johnson, but not an ILB in the 3rd.
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I'm not real big on Clausen or Wright, but many are..
Okay. So you are not big on Clausen or Wright.
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Yeah, that's what I said.  I was just offering up my opinion like anyone else.
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Yeah, that's what I said. I was just offering up my opinion like anyone else.
Why are you not big on Clausen or White? What about their game when studying tape did you not like?
I think you have a lot of good insight however the way you present it comes across as nitpicking, bashing and trying to elevate yourself.
I have no problems with you disagreeing with Clausen and White being picked . But if you are going to write that you disagree you need to write why. Plus, in doing so you can educate the board on something perhaps we are missing when evaluating Clausen and White.
And you are not offering up your opinion like others. This thread was meant as a game. A game where you post your mid season picks. Several other users played along. You chose to rip users mid season picks continually.
However I do give you some props when later on in the thread you did critique in a more positive way.
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No, I've already posted my mock and am just discussing the mocks.
I don't like Clausen because of several reasons. He doesn't have a great arm. He's supposed to be the smart QB, but I've seen him make some questionable decisions already this season. I just don't see it there.
Wright is too one dimensional for me. Not good enough in protection.
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That was actually a pretty damn good Mock Top  Although I'm not a huge fan of taking Major Wright in the 2nd round because he hasn't really done anything to make me say "Wow, we gotta have this guy at safety!" I seen you've come to your senses and decided to have the browns draft a buckeye 
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Quote:
I seen you've come to your senses and decided to have the browns draft a buckeye
Yeah, just not a "real player" 
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I bet he can still tackle better then Kentuckys defense  Just admit it top you have a soft spot in your heart for the Bucks 
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Quote:
No, I've already posted my mock and am just discussing the mocks.
I don't like Clausen because of several reasons. He doesn't have a great arm. He's supposed to be the smart QB, but I've seen him make some questionable decisions already this season. I just don't see it there.
Wright is too one dimensional for me. Not good enough in protection.
2 weeks ago you said that Clausen "has a very strong arm and is far and away the best QB in the country."
What changed that much in the past 2 weeks that he goes from "far and away the best QB in the country," with a strong arm to having a questionable arm and smarts?
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A: I don't remember saying that.
B: He doesn't have a very strong arm. I may have thought that after watching him five minutes one game, but after seeing more, I don't think so.
C: He is by far the best pure passer at this point. Doesn't mean I'm a huge fan of him. I like Locker better.
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Remeber when me and you were debating Bradford vs. Clausen?
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sorry man, they caught you...here was the first that popped up in my search...this is just a week ago as well, how much could have changed in a week that Clausen didn't even play? Quote:
From: Tue Oct 06 2009 08:18 PM
Davy - I don't think Clausen will declare. If he does, he's probably my top quarterback.
also....
Quote:
Sun Sep 27 2009 03:53 PM
For me, it's:
1. Jimmy Clausen
2. Tony Pike
3. Jevan Snead
4. Sam Bradford
5. Jake Locker
Sun Sep 27 2009 03:59 PM
Yes, he is. I'm not going to prejudice against Clausen because he plays at ND. He is looking like a real player, and is dominating in an NFL offense.
Him and Quinn appear to have similarities, but Clausen has a better arm, and seems to be more willing to take chances. He has that soldier mentality, evidenced by him coming off the bench, with one foot, and dominating late in the game last night.
I hate ND as much as anyone, and see the failed Quinn pick, but he looks to be the real deal.
Last edited by no_logo_required; 10/13/09 06:36 PM.
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I do. And I still prefer Clausen over everyone but Locker. Things have changed. Scouting is a process. All I'm saying is that I don't really like any of them.
Logo: All of that is true. Except for the dominating part. I've had a chance to watch more of him since then. He is and will be my top QB if he declares. It doesn't mean I have to love him.
For now my QB rankings are:
1. Jake Locker
2. Jimmy Clausen
3. Sam Bradford
4. Tony Pike
5. Colt McCoy
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Held - In his first week at rookie minicamps, he was able to diagram what everyone was doing on a certain play Yes, he is insanely smart.
How is that "insanely smart"? I remember the article and it was a base package and he was on top of it and knew conceptually what was going on, where everyone was supposed to be and what the defense was trying to do.
I would have no problem doing that in a day.
Football is a layered game. Someone from the outside looking in at a NFL playbook for the first time would think only geniuses could remember all of that. But it's really pretty easy as you digest it over the years.
Remember that Veikune had exposure to both the 4-3 and the 3-4 at UH. He played multiple positions so he could get on the field too. I'd expect him to know what is going on with our base schemes in a week. I'd expect everyone to be able to do it but as most of us know there are some blockheads that play professional football.
You've been making excuses for a reach of a pick for a while now. Just let it play out. He's either going to make it or he won't. I think he's going to have a tough time physically but we'll find out soon enough.
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I guess it's smarter to have a fluid opinion than a stubborn opinion.
I'm not trying to call you out or anything but I notice your opinion changes faster than I can keep track. I remember you saying Bradford was the real deal.
At least there's a method to your madness. I understand why opinions change.
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I can't name a single person who scouts and doesn't have a change of opinion very regularly. The more you see, the more you know. There's a reason Michael Johnson went from a top pick this time last year to a 3rd rounder when it was all said and done.
I thought Bradford was the real deal until I realized he never threw the ball beyond 10 yards. And that he didn't have to make reads. And that he goes from the shotgun way more than most NFL teams.
By the time the draft rolls around, I could be pimping Bradford or Clausen hardcore. But right now, I'm on the other end of that one.
Held: You're right. We don't know about Veikune yet. But the one thing that I can say with near absolute certainty is this: He wouldn't have made it to the 3rd round.
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At least no matter what happens, you can't be wrong
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I will be when I say it right before the draft. Trust me, I will be wrong. About somethings at least.
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I disagree completely with your assessment of Clausen. Perhaps when you watch more tape you will disagree as well. One of the main pros of Clausen IS his arm strength. I have factual evidence to support my claim. I will reference four throws two from the ND vs. Michigan State game and two from the ND vs. Washington game. ND vs. Michigan State 5 min. left in 1st quarter Clausen is standing at the 32 yard line and throws to the back right corner of the endzone for a touchdown to where only his receiver could catch the ball, showcasing his accuracy and arm strength. (approx. 38 yard throw) ND vs. Michigan Sate 5 min. left in the 4th quarter, Clausen is standing with his backfoot at the 43yard line and throws a accurate ball in stride to his receiver in the middle part of endzone (this is the throw where #23 tried to jump into the MSU band). (approx. 50 yard throw) ND vs. Washington 13:43 left in the third quarter, 1st and 10, Clausen drops back (back foot on the 12yard line and throws a rifle pass to #23 catching him in stride. The ball was caught on the 36yard line and was ran in for a diving TD. He put a lot of zip behind the ball and threw it in between zone coverage where only his man could catch the ball. approx. 24yard pass with zip and low trajectory. ND vs. Washington 14:23 left in the fourth quarter. 1st and 10, Clausen is on the 36 yard line and running right. While running, he throws the ball past the other side of the 50 to approx. the 45 yard line a low bullet-like throw.. Approx. 19 yard throw for a first down. Also, here is a link for an article from the Chicago Tribune. In the article, Steve Muensch, an analyst for Scouts Inc. says the following "(Clausen) has everything you want,” from size to footwork to arm strength. http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2009/sep/04/sports/chi-04-notre-dame-football-sep04That being said Deepthreat, I have referenced four particular throws which illustrate Clausen's arm strength. Which throws are you referencing to stating that Clausen does not have the arm strength?
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I'm not a fan of Clausen b/c i don't think he's that smart....tools or not
Give me Matt Berkeley in 3 years
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I would really like to draft Clausen myself based on his arm strength and the pro style offense. I also really like Bradford because of his accuracy.
However, I have a man crush on Eric Berry. That's who I want ManKok to get!
Now, if we go Berry (we assure ourselves the BEST player in the draft).... and we might just might be able to get either Pike or Snead in Round 2. Do you think either of these QB's fall this far?
Pike and Snead are both being talked about as a potential 1st round or top 15 pick. However, with Clausen, Bradford, McCoy, and Tebow....someone has to fall out of the first round. I look for it to be Pike or Snead and right into our hands.
I like Pike much better than Snead too.
I guess I would be content though with Clausen/Bradford in Round 1 and Spikes in Round 2 (if we could be so lucky to get him there)
We must then get a RT, S, or RB with your other 2nd round pick (yeah I said it...Braylon will get us our pick)
Dwyer would be very nice at that spot, but I don't think he lasts with this being a small class of RB's. Also him possibly being the only NFL body back in the top 3 (Spiller and Best)
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Quote:
I'm not a fan of Clausen b/c i don't think he's that smart....tools or not
Give me Matt Berkley in 3 years
I don't think Clausen has the grit to play in a city like Cleveland.
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Snead is dropping like a rock and will be back for his senior year....
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I'm extremely intrigued by Pike....I've seen some on here and on scouting pages referencing him being the best of this class....I've seen others say that his ceiling is around Pennington's because of a lack of arm strength.
good thing we get to see him against a pretty good defense this Thursday...I'm pretty excited to get to see it and hopefully see what all the hype is about.
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Quote:
and we might just might be able to get either Pike or Snead in Round 2. Do you think either of these QB's fall this far?
Pike and Snead are both being talked about as a potential 1st round or top 15 pick. However, with Clausen, Bradford, McCoy, and Tebow....someone has to fall out of the first round. I look for it to be Pike or Snead and right into our hands.
With 5 games completed for Jevan Snead, there is a good chance he has played his way out of the first round. He will need a solid remaining season to be a first round selection. Being a junior, he may be forced to come back for his senior year if he does not improve his play.
So far this year, his completion % is 46.8 (down from 56.3 in 08'). He has thrown 9 TDS and 9 INT.
His last game on 10/10 vs. Alabama, he threw 0 TDS and 4 INT and was 11-34 for 140yards. One could argue it was against the #2 team in the country, but one could also argue that a top tier QB should perform better in those types of games.
I have not seen him play this year, however I have read that his mechanics need reworked and that he seems flighty in the pocket. From what I have read and from the stats, it appears that with his regression he will be a project. If he does not turn around the season and declares for the draft he runs the risk of being a lower pick than round 2.
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I've seen Snead play 3 times this year.....he is getting Tim Couch / David Carr syndrome behind that Ole Miss OL....it is brutal how quickly the DL gets to him, then when they back off for a play, that QB-clock in his head is wound so tight he still forces the ball out too quickly and erratically....
he could pull out of it, of course....but that OL has got to start protecting him.
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Unless I see the throws in question, I cannot confirm or deny them.
I don't have any specific plays. But it takes a too long for the ball to get to the receiver on the slant and deep out. He sometimes has to put too much loft on the ball because he doesn't have the zip to wing it in there.
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Quote:
Unless I see the throws in question, I cannot confirm or deny them.
I don't have any specific plays. But it takes a too long for the ball to get to the receiver on the slant and deep out. He sometimes has to put too much loft on the ball because he doesn't have the zip to wing it in there.
You cannot confirm or deny them? So basically you are not taking my word for it, however you want me and everyone else to take your word on it. The difference of course is I provided times of throws and dates. You have not.
I find it curious that the website mocking the draft had a main article on October 3rd where one of their main writers (mocking dan) questioned Clausen's arm strength saying that he puts loft on the ball. Aren't you associated with that website? Is that where you are getting this?
Anyone can spout off opinion however I have backed it up. Plus, I have not waffled on my opinion.
If you have looked at a lot of film on Clausen surely you remember a few particular situations where he put loft on the ball and did not exhibit an NFL quality arm.
I gave you four situations where his arm strength was NFL quality.
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Deep does do that site and thinks it gives him some entitlement over us mortals. Deep is so cocky and so confrontational about the draft I don't even like talking about it when he starts in the thread. Then again his "opinion" changes every week on players, that way he can never be wrong I guess. I don't know what'd you see in a week to say a player drop and rise like he does. He seems to be taking a page out of the Mel Kiper book.
Seriously tho Clausin has legit arm strength. However I am holding out hope for Jake Locher. If Jake can put everything together I wouldn't minding us drafting him. I also like Tony Pike a lot.
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I am excited to see the game on Thursday and how Pike performs. He can really silent some of his critics with another solid performance.
We will never know this, but I am curious how different people would perceive Locker if he was not in the Pacific Northwest. I am sure that has affected his status some. However, one could argue that it did not hurt Ryan Leaf or Joey Harrington who were both from that region and were picked high.
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Quote:
We will never know this, but I am curious how different people would perceive Locker if he was not in the Pacific Northwest. I am sure that has affected his status some. However, one could argue that it did not hurt Ryan Leaf or Joey Harrington who were both from that region and were picked high.
I don't think the region matters as much as who he is playing for. I mean if Locher went to OSU or LSU..etc then he would be billed as the greatest thing since sliced bread. Now because he plays on a team devoid of talent it makes him that much harder to evaluate. As he probably gets too much credit for winning and too little credit for losing. However, he has all the tools. I think he compares favorable to Steve Young. I don't know if he declares tho. You've got Clausin who most likely will, Pike, Bradford, McCoy..etc Depends on if his agent talks him into it.
If i was in his position I would declare to get out of Washington but then again i would most likely going to a team devoid of talent anyways.
Go Browns!!
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this might be the last year without a rookie salary cap....we might see a record number of players declare...
if that happens, it would be a pretty good draft to have 11 picks in....hmmm....
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j/c
1.S Eric Berry....Tennessee
2. OT Ciron Black....LSU
3a. CB Myron Lewis....Vanderbilt
3b. RB Charles Scott....LSU
4. OG Reggie Stephens....Iowa St.
5a. OLB Antonio Coleman....Auburn
5b. OLB Auston English....Oklahoma
6a. DL Kade Weston....Georgia
6b. DB Marquis Johnson....Alabama
7. BPA
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Quote:
this might be the last year without a rookie salary cap....we might see a record number of players declare...
if that happens, it would be a pretty good draft to have 11 picks in....hmmm....
You can bet agents are going to be pressing guys to declare. Right now the only QB I don't see declaring is Snead. I hope Locher, Bradford, and Clausin all declare.
Go Browns!!
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