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Quote:
Actually it's not so simple. Very few returners are pure returners. Most actually play a position.
What he said.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Quote:
Quote:
Actually it's not so simple. Very few returners are pure returners. Most actually play a position.
C'mon Deep...you got more than that...work with me here 
Find the best kick returner who pretty much plays sparingly at a position...pay Cribbs 110% of that guys salary. If no such guy exists, take the league minimum and use 110% of that number.
Find the best punt returner who pretty much plays sparingly at a position...pay Cribbs 90% of that guys salary. If no such guy exists, take the league minimum and use 90% of that number.
Problem is I think Cribbs is already that guy.
HACK
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Quote:
Actually it's not so simple. Very few returners are pure returners. Most actually play a position.
This really irks me. Last time I checked, specials were 1/3 of the equation. If you've got a guy that is nearly the best in three different specials categories in the ENTIRE league, then his impact on the team has to come close to if not eclipse guys that play either defense or offense. All he does is play specials ... so I guess he's not important ... hell, he's more important to this team than any of our receivers right now. I am so sick of hearing this when it comes to Cribbs. And not so much to you Deep ... you almost expressed it as fact ... but our buddy Toadie ... well, that's the basis of his whole argument ... I'm just so sick of hearing it.
If this board ran the team, we'd trade everybody. It doesn't seem like people can think outside the box around here. This stuff ain't always black and white.
ddub, great post my man. Great post.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Legend
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Coaches are always talking about how important STs are.
I think JC deserves a raise, not Hester money but a nice raise.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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With the number of times we punt, and the number of times we get scored on resulted in a kickoff, Cribbs is on the field for a lot of plays. When he is on the field during those plays, he is the best player on the field. Most of our scores, which are few, are the result of field position that he gives us. He is useful on offense for a big gainer or as a decoy.
Teams have to game plan for him. How many other guys on our roster can you say that about? Thomas? Rogers? anyone else?
To top it off, he is always positive, never gets in trouble, and does whatever the coaches ask. He is the favorite player of a lot of fans.
If we were a good team, he'd be more replaceable. As it is, he is one of the few reasons fans come to games and have any hope whatsoever that we will score, much less win. Sometimes, you overpay a guy a little because he means more than production. It speaks to other FAs that you take care of your guys. It boosts morale in the locker room that, no matter what position I play, if I give 100% and produce, I'm valued. And the guy deserves a raise, no doubt about it, whatever deal he signed.
He'll get a raise. I think Toad is the only guy who's sick of him and his agent.
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Quote:
Problem is I think Cribbs is already that guy.
Ok then...give him 3x the league minimum...what would that be?
2.1 mil/yr?
I'd be ok with that.
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Per ROTOWORLD
Cribbs signed a six-year, $6.77 million contract extension through 2012. The deal included a $2 million signing bonus. Another $400,000 is available through yearly incentives. He can also earn $25,000 workout bonuses in each year. 2009: $620,000, 2010: $635,000, 2011: $650,000, 2012: $790,000, 2013: Free Agent
Devin Hester signed a four-year, $40.975 million contract extension through 2013. The deal contains $15 million guaranteed, including a $5 million signing bonus and $18.939 million in performance-based escalators. $250,000 workout bonuses are available in each year. 2009: $550,000 (+ $5 million roster bonus), 2010: $750,000 (+ $5 million roster bonus), 2011: $1.5835 million, 2012: $1.646 million, 2013: $1,857,523 (+ $10 million "deescalating" roster bonus), 2014: Free Agent. Cap charge: $6,885,883 (2009).
Cribbs may not want Hester money...but it was suggested at one time...so even if Hester's numbers are the ceiling....and Cribbs current numbers are the basement....I would guess he wants something in the middle...
average of 5 mill a year? 7 mill signing bonus? low yearly salary with 3 million a year roster bonus?
HACK
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2nd String
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This really isn't that hard. All we need to do is follow the model of the recent trades we have made. Just call up the Jets and trade Cribbs for a draft pick and Sione Pouha and call it a day. Maybe we can really fleece them and have them throw in Donald Strickland.
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Actually I don't think hester's contract should be used at all, since it is probably the second-worst contract from a team's perspective (to j Russell). Bringing up hestermight makethe browns think 2x about extending his deal.
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j/c
with jeremy maclin unseating curtis for the starting wr spot in philly, i have to ask if kevin curtis gives us anything at wr. i wonder if he would be an upgrade to stuckey/furrey, allowing furrey to play more safety. he may be older and a little injury-prone, but i remember him having solid hands.
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OP
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I hear the Jets lost their Nose tackle.. Do they still have their first from near year left ? 
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I noticed this little nugget in Mike Lombardi's newest column on the National Football Post. Quote:
Tuesday is the trading deadline, but I’m not optimistic there will be many deals. The Browns can’t trade Josh Cribbs (I hear they won’t), but will try to move outside backer/defensive end Kamerion Wimbley, who missed Sunday’s game against the Steelers with the flu. The Ravens will move rush end Antwan Barnes, who might draw some interest from the Eagles. And Jags outside linebacker Quentin Groves is being shopped at a reduced price, in large part because he missed team curfew in Seattle. Mike Sims-Walker also missed curfew, but he’s too vital to the Jags and is one of their best players.
If I were working in the NFL today, I might want to call the Titans since it looks like they might be offering all their players in a fire sale.
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Getting something for Wimbley now would be a positive for this team.
He's a decidedly inferior OLB for the 3-4 and is as good as he's ever going to be. Those that would point to his 4-sacks as proof he's a good or improving player either would ignore or simply don't understand that his inability to get consistent pressure on the opposing teams backfield is where it's at, not the occasional sack that makes his stat lines look good.
Phil Savage strikes again..............
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I agree.. He wiffs and misses way too many times when he DOES get in. His outside contain sucks too.
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Quote:
Getting something for Wimbley now would be a positive for this team.
He's a decidedly inferior OLB for the 3-4 and is as good as he's ever going to be.
I agree. And I'm sure there are good 4-3 defenses in the league that could really put him to good use.
I'm all for getting more picks and losing yet another first round player is not going to make this team look any worse.
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Is Wimbley the only thing brewing??
Hmmmm...we'll see..
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how many picks do you all think we will have come draft day? lol..
we have 11 now.. so I'm guessing about 23.. lmao.
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what is really exciting is hearing so many say this could be the best coming draft in a while. don't know how much stock i hold in it but if that's the general sentiment and we're piacking a lot, i'm happy.
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It's really deep at defensive line and safety.
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how about RB, OLB/DE tweeners, and OT?
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I like the tweeners, but running back is looking weak. Not sure about OT yet. But it's really too early to be saying a whole lot here. My opinions could completely flip flop by draft time.
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understood. i'm just glad to see we have a lot of picks in, what seems to be the consensus, a strong draft.
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How short sighted you are.
We did get Babatunde Oshiniwo as well. And when you have the opportunity to get Babatunde Oshiniwo you damn well better take it!
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It will be deep because more underclassmen will be coming out early to avoid the possible rookie pay scale that may come with the new CBA.
I hope this means Jake Locker leaves early.
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DeepThreat:
I will be thrilled if we have a lot of picks and get some good quality players for this team come draft day
I don't follow college enough to get a true assessment however I have some friends that have said the same as you, and that is that this is a good draft for DL and safety
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So is the deadline tonight at midnight or tomorrow at midnight? Or is it even midnight?
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Quote:
So is the deadline tonight at midnight or tomorrow at midnight? Or is it even midnight?
Tomorrow at 4pm.
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How short sighted you are.
We did get Babatunde Oshiniwo as well. And when you have the opportunity to get Babatunde Oshiniwo you damn well better take it!
My mistake! 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
It's really deep at defensive line and safety.
Linemen too...we need a few.
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I would normally try to make a joke here and say we need five,... But assuming Mack continues to improve and Steinbach is still serviceable, the Browns have to have 2 starters, Fraley could be the b/u C/G for another couple of seasons,... One draft is not gonna provide us with 2/3 great starting OLinemen, not without some luck--and especially not with the other holes that need attention. Actually I think we need to look at a high end line coach too.
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DANG..are you just morphing to every forum?? 
In the next draft there is a opportunity to get a sold OG and serviceable OT..Tone of the best guards in the nation is Mike Iupati Idaho 6' 6 330 ..
I'd get him in a heartbeat..insert him at RG..that spot is fixed.
After that (use a second on him) they could get Jason Fox of Miami for the RT spot..he could be had in the 3rd/4th rds..so it's not hard..
I sense they would get a OT in FA first if possible...U don't want two rookies on that right side.
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Quote:
DANG..are you just morphing to every forum??
In the next draft there is a opportunity to get a sold OG and serviceable OT..Tone of the best guards in the nation is Mike Iupati Idaho 6' 6 330 ..
I'd get him in a heartbeat..insert him at RG..that spot is fixed.
After that (use a second on him) they could get Jason Fox of Miami for the RT spot..he could be had in the 3rd/4th rds..so it's not hard..
I sense they would get a OT in FA first if possible...U don't want two rookies on that right side.
I like the interaction and the knowledge gained,... 
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I was jokin' you.. 
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I know, but I am serious about the knowledge. Every time I read a different post, I learn from another angle. Only reason I visit here.
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Banta-Cain might have some leverage Posted by Mike Florio on October 20, 2009 11:00 AM ET Though the Patriots apparently cut linebacker Tully Banta-Cain with the intent of bringing him back in short order, New England might have some competition for his services. Per a league source, the Browns are sniffing around Banta-Cain, and they might make a serious run at swiping him. Banta-Cain has played under Browns coach Eric Mangini and defensive coordinator Rob Ryan, and Banta-Cain likely would instantly become a starter in the Browns' 3-4 defense. Even if he's not interested, Banta-Cain could flirt with the Browns in order to get something more than a prorated one-year minimum deal from the Patriots. Bottom line? He's got leverage. The question is whether he'll use it. web page
You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
#gmSTRONG
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He's better than what we have..
6'2 250 29-CAL DE..
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Too late, Pats already signed him back.
#GMSTRONG
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J/C ...
Cleveland Browns are at the center of the NFL trade universe
By Tony Grossi
October 20, 2009, 9:37AM
CLEVELAND -- Will the Browns add to their stockpile of picks in the 2010 draft by swinging another deal before today's 4 o'clock NFL trade deadline?
The prominent names mentioned in rumors have been quarterback Brady Quinn, specialist Josh Cribbs and defensive end Corey Williams.
Not-so-prominent rumors have posed trade possibilities involving linebacker Kamerion Wimbley, nose tackle Shaun Rogers, and, yes, even left tackle Joe Thomas.
Why are the Browns the subject of so many rumors? That's obvious. Coach Eric Mangini has not been shy about pulling the trigger on trades to rid his locker room of players not with his program.
Also, word spread quickly after Mangini assessed his inherited roster in February that the Browns would be willing to trade anybody except Thomas and linebacker D'Qwell Jackson.
Mangini and General Manager George Kokinis affirmed that notion by trading tight end Kellen Winslow on Feb. 27 -- the very first day of the NFL trading season. In April, they made three trades in the first round of the draft. In August, they traded defensive lineman Louis Leonard. Two weeks ago, they traded receiver Braylon Edwards.
Mangini has engineered two blockbuster trades with his old team, the Jets -- one on draft day giving them the chance to draft quarterback Mark Sanchez and then shipping them Edwards, a No. 1 receiver.
Now the Jets are looking for a defensive lineman to replace Pro Bowl tackle Kris Jenkins, who is out for the year with a torn knee ligament. Could Mangini and Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum pull off yet another trade? Anything is possible.
So far, Mangini's trades have netted four additional picks in the 2010 draft on April 22-24. In addition to their own selections in each of the seven rounds, the Browns now possess:
• The Jets' third-round and fifth-round picks (Edwards trade). If Edwards finishes with 55 or more catches, the first choice improves to the second round.
• Tampa Bay's fifth-round pick (Winslow trade).
• Carolina's sixth-round pick (Leonard trade).
© 2009 cleveland.com.
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Where did you see that, Tulsa????...I have been looking for it.....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Trading deadline Oct 20th. Do we
get more more picks ?
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