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DA will continue to start because he is the better QB---get used to it...
DA is the lesser of two evils at this time but not a quality starter..he will be replaced at some point..get used to that.
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OH I know what you are saying tt..
Here's the thing,, I'm pretty sure that DA isn't the long term answer.. I'm equally sure that he's the best for THIS team at THIS moment in time. That's not to say it won't change, it's just that for the moment, he's the guy who has the job and it's up to him to keep it.
That is NOT a ringng endorsement for DA.. Nor is it Quinn bashing.. It's just what I feel at this moment...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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1st String
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No, Cribbs is likely the best "QB" on this team at the moment, or at least the player who would give us the best chance to win on any given week when lining up at QB.
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I've been saying it for weeks. Put Cribbs at QB, and run the Navy triple option! 
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what i will say is that, now that i'm agree-ing with more posters (DA best short term answer for the team) and seeing as most of the blind quinn love is all but gone, qb talk is losing its luster.
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Quote:
Quote:
Tyler's got a new obsession.
It's getting old to me.
Amen.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
what i will say is that, now that i'm agree-ing with more posters (DA best short term answer for the team) and seeing as most of the blind quinn love is all but gone, qb talk is losing its luster.
Nah... everybody is just dizzy from going around-and-around on the subject. 
The next pathetic game by DA will re-ignite the whole conversation for God knows how many MORE laps around that same short track. 
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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DA is our best QB right now, and with more time under center with the same OC--he will become more familiar with the offense. And with more game experience, I am pretty sure that he will get better at recognizing things from the LOS. I am not saying DA is the best QB EVER. Just saying that right now, we need him leading this team. And in the future, if this coaching staff stays intact, all the players benefit from stability within those coaching ranks. And the more a guy starts in this league---he benefits from the experience. I don't see whats so hard to accept about that. Its a sport where you grow as a player through the years. You can't dispute that. 
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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/\ /\ ... wow, who saw that coming... 
yebat' Putin
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And the more a guy starts in this league---he benefits from the experience.
I don't see whats so hard to accept about that.
Its a sport where you grow as a player through the years. You can't dispute that.
I think that has been the point all along....the more starts you get...the better you can become.
DA has what.....29 starts
Quinn has 6.
from your coaches own words...very little separates the two..If it took 2 years of games to get to only slightly better...Would Quinn not benefit from getting some starts under his belt?
HACK
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Look ,there's a handful of these who keep making excuses and wanting to bend over(like to insert foot deep enough) and give all this rope to DA..Fact is Hack I've seen this act..it hasn't improved .if dude was improving there would be legid room to argue but he's not..and if anyone can show me how he's improved this year, your just debating for the sake of it.
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Its a sport where you grow as a player through the years. You can't dispute that.
Nope. Don't dispute that. But you don't grow linearly, you don't get 5% better every year and peak in your 10...
For pretty much every player that has achieved anything at this level you start out learning the game and the speed of the game and the complexities of the NFL game compared to the college game and you struggle some... for some players, this hurdle is overcome in their very first camp and they start season #1 pretty well and never look back, for others this can take part or all of the first year, for some maybe a second year... but at some point a light comes on and players have this exponential (almost overnight) improvement.. where they just seem to "get it"... then from there they begin improving in smaller measures as they refine their skills.. some players have that "light come on" moment and then for some reason can't sustain it... I don't know why but I'd guess it's because they achieve "it" and then other teams adjust to their "it" and they aren't good enough to readjust.... DA is looking more and more like that type of guy... he had his moment, the NFL adjusted and he's never been able to re-adjust...... JMHO...
yebat' Putin
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I'd rather give the offense to DA than the other guy.
BQ just doesn't have what it takes. The file is in---you wanna stop Brady---then put 11 guys within 10 yards of the LOS, make him have to throw outside the numbers, or deep downfield. And he is done.
How many weeks of Blow Out games do you need to see before you will admit the kid just doesn't have the skill set to compete at this level? You wanna risk losing the team just to see if Brady can suddenly make all the throws. You wanna hear the fanbase calling for Mangini's head when we go 1-16 b/c YOU didn't see enough of Quinn. Its pretty obvious that the team prefers DA, and probably the coaching staff too. So give up the hate man.
DA is the better QB, and so Mangini is giving him the reins.
All you can do is hope for him to fail---like all the other "real" Browns fans on this board.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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All you can do is hope for him to fail---
Nobody is HOPING he fails.... some of us just don't expect him to succeed...
However I will say this.. if he does fail, and I act like you have regarding Quinn, I'm giving everybody on this board full authorization to come find me and smack the ever lovin' crap out of me...
yebat' Putin
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All this time the only thing you can do is toot DA..
You're embarrased to admit that DA is not a quality starter so U bang on Quinn..well he isn't the one playing right now the other inconsistant backup is.
It's funny the "U want DA to fail" label U try to give ..but he's failing on his own..
If I see a player failing I call it out and I don't have use for them unless they improve..Quinn's first shot this season hasn't worked but that still hasn't shown much ..DA has had 27+ starts and I've seen no improvement..do U understand that ?
He isn't improving..I know you 're like a wounded cub backed into a corner so U have to extract some of the baby teeth you have ..but you nor any poster in this forum can project any shred of evidence that shows DA 's game has elevated..
Do it..instead of beating the ole broken drum show me how he has improved..up to the challenge??
U will fail miserably.
Go get all yer boys and PM each other and try to show some stat that DA has grown..
Don't compare him to any other QB..show how he's improving week to week.
Right now this season those two all it..so the team has to ride one of them..come offseason there will be a change.
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If you are taking it personal--then thats your bag---I mean't no harm. And for the record---when Quinn originally got the job---I didn't say a thing. I wished him well. Way to veil a physical threat too---thats a classy move.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Nah... everybody is just dizzy from going around-and-around on the subject.
Not me. I stay out of it, while sitting back point and laughing.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I'd rather give the offense to DA than the other guy.
BQ just doesn't have what it takes. The file is in---you wanna stop Brady---then put 11 guys within 10 yards of the LOS, make him have to throw outside the numbers, or deep downfield. And he is done.
How many weeks of Blow Out games do you need to see before you will admit the kid just doesn't have the skill set to compete at this level? You wanna risk losing the team just to see if Brady can suddenly make all the throws. You wanna hear the fanbase calling for Mangini's head when we go 1-16 b/c YOU didn't see enough of Quinn. Its pretty obvious that the team prefers DA, and probably the coaching staff too. So give up the hate man.
DA is the better QB, and so Mangini is giving him the reins.
All you can do is hope for him to fail---like all the other "real" Browns fans on this board.
see above #611454
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
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I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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NO it's just everyone is just getting tired of Quote:
going around-and-around on the subject.
did you watch the Browns and Steelers game last night on the NFL channel where Holcome And Maddox was the QBs
Do u remember that game. if u were on the board at that time I wonder if u were as annoying
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
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I went back and took a look at DA's first 11 games of 2007....and his last 13 games
First 11
212 of 365 for 2758 yards
22 TD's 11 INT's
58% completions
QB rating of 89.5
TD 6% INT 3%
Last 13
181 of 367 for 1999 yards
10 TD's 13 INT's
49% completions
QB rating of 60.2
TD 2.7% INT 3.5%
Quinns 6 games
90 of 163 for 918 yards
3 TD's 5 INT's
55.2% complettions
QB rating of 64.9
TD 1.8% INT 3%
now to compare Quinns 12 game projection vs Andersons last 13 games
ANDERSON.............................................QUINN
Last 13----------------------------------------------------12 game projection
181 of 367 for 1999 yards---------------------------180 of 326 for 1836
10 TD's 13 INT's-----------------------------------------6 TD's 10 INT's
49% completions---------------------------------------55% completions
QB rating of 60.2----------------------------------------QB rating of 64.9
TD 2.7% INT 3.5%--------------------------------------TD 1.8% INT 3%
Not really that much of a difference.....and I guess that boils most of the debate...the Quinn people (which I am one) say current Quinn vs current DA....why not get Quinn some experience..and see what he can become
The DA backers...is lets try to win a few now..and hope 2007 DA shows up
The lack of difference is a reason I think it is give the guy with 6 starts some work and see if he can get better....before going into 2010 and getting a new QB again.
HACK
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Its really not fair to project Quinns stats when he played 3 tough defenses already this year.
Quinn won out in pre season and I think he should have had more of a chance to learn.
Either way, Im rooting for whoever is the starting QB.
GO DA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I can agree with that....it was just the Quinn has such a small body of work....I had to project...to even get a comparison.
HACK
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Quote:
The DA backers...is lets try to win a few now..and hope 2007 DA shows up
between teh two, i'm more of a DA backer than a quinn backer. that said, that's not my take at all as to why DA needs to play. my take is the effect of DA playing on the rest of the team vs the effect of quinn playing on the rest of the team. all the reasons have been listed but it has nothing to do with DA's overall performance. it's clear the team (offense, defense, and special teams) believes DA is the better option and that's shown in their play as well as d'qwell jackson's recent quote.
in my book, it's "do you start a qb who may turn the ball over but has the rest of the team playing harder or do you start a qb who may develop into a good qb while sacrificing players who may not buy into the system if that qb doesn't perform"
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Quote:
The lack of difference is a reason I think it is give the guy with 6 starts some work and see if he can get better
couldn't say it better myself
by the way I'm not a Quinnbot as some would call it. I'm just tired of DA and can't understand why people have written Quinn off already. I wouldn't even care if the Browns went 0-16 with Quinn at least we would know what we had.
I can't remember any QB being written off so quick by so many people with so little work. makes u wonder on Tylers part did they know each other as kids and Quinn beat him up or what.
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
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Quote:
do you start a qb who may turn the ball over but has the rest of the team playing harder or do you start a qb who may develop into a good qb
in my book
I would think this is a no Brainer but I guess it is not Quote:
qb who may develop into a good qb
this says it all because we have seen enough of DA to Know what we got. why not see if Quinn may turn into something what do we got to lose (THE PLAYOFFS)
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
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No, Cribbs is likely the best "QB" on this team at the moment, or at least the player who would give us the best chance to win on any given week when lining up at QB.
For all I know, you could be right,, but I haven't seen him on a regular basis as a QB.. not since college really so I'm not sure how you are arriving at your belief...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
this says it all because we have seen enough of DA to Know what we got. why not see if Quinn may turn into something what do we got to lose (THE PLAYOFFS)
my saying quinn MAY turn into a good qb is not mutually exclusive of saying DA MAY turn into a good qb. i'm simply acknowledging that, given the pedigree and draft status, it's possible quinn can turn into a good qb.
that said, if mangini doesn't feel like he will, which is evident in the benching, the point is you don't start him to see if quinn MAY become a good qb while risking the rest of the locker room. this is mangini's first year and he needs to build credibility with his core players. d'qwell is one of them and clearly, he believes in DA more and, no doubt, i'm sure more players on the team feel the same way.
this is a no brainer in the sense that, you don't sacrifice the TEAM in holding out hope of POSSIBLY developing ONE player. mangini has locker room credibility and his core players of his team to lose. that's too much to risk.
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now to compare Quinns 12 game projection vs Andersons last 13 games
Come on hack,, look at any QB,, take his worst stretch and compare it and it won't be fair.. Besides, looking at projections is crazy also,, At the rate Quinn was getting sacked,, he wouldn't last 12 games..
Notice,, Quinn is in for 2.5 games, he's getting sacked a ton.. DA is in with basically the same line,, he's been sacked like 3 times in 2.5 games.. that ain't all the line.. that has to have something to do with the QB.. right?
Last edited by Damanshot; 10/16/09 05:09 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
my take is the effect of DA playing on the rest of the team vs the effect of quinn playing on the rest of the team. all the reasons have been listed but it has nothing to do with DA's overall performance. it's clear the team (offense, defense, and special teams) believes DA is the better option and that's shown in their play as well as d'qwell jackson's recent quote.
If this is as true as some people seem to think it is then I think it's a real problem... what happens at the end of the year if we trade Quinn, keep DA and draft a QB in the first or second round and the kid comes in and starts? When the rest of the team fails to play as hard as they can shall we just accept it and say "Oh well, put DA back in, everybody has some undying devotion to him."?
yebat' Putin
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I don't think the team believes that Quinn is the long term solution from the coaching staff to the players. Quite simply, that's the reason he's no longer starting. So if he's not, it doesn't matter that DA's not either. They are going to go with the guy that's played better up to this point in their careers..
If the coaching staff believed in Quinn, they would have left him in because there is a ton of merit to getting him more time. But only if they thought he could be the guy later on down the road. They obviously don't believe that anymore. I think that speaks volumes. And people should be listening to what the team is telling you through their actions. If they felt Quinn was the long term solution to this team, he would have never been yanked or at least he would have started the following week. Listen up people ... there are other things leading the staff to this conclusion ... not just game experience ... they don't feel he is going to improve with more game experience ... or at least not enough that it would matter ... that's the bottom line ... that's what their actions are telling us. That's all we have to go on.
So if they don't believe he can be the guy anymore, it's pointless for fans to be hoping he gets more time. The only way it happens is if DA goes down or gets pulled. Then Quinn would have to come in and set the world on fire to get the staff to believe in him again. He has a steep mountain to climb.
This is simply what I believe to be what's going on.
To all the posters using stats in this QB debate, they are pointless ... just put them away. The team certainly isn't using them to make their decisions. They do nothing to tell the story at all.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
Quote:
now to compare Quinns 12 game projection vs Andersons last 13 games
Come on hack,, look at any QB,, take his worst stretch and compare it and it won't be fair.. Besides, looking a projections is crazy also,, At the rate Quinn was getting sacked,, he wouln't last 12 games..
Notice,, Quinn is in for 2.3 games, he's getting sacked a ton.. DA is in with basically the same line,, he's been sacked like 3 times it 2.5 games.. that ain't all the line.. that has to have something to do with the QB.. right?
I agree if you take a QB's bad stretch it won't be fair...but I did not take a bad stretch...I took the last half of his career...not a random point in the middle...
As for the sacks.
Quinn had 4 against the undefeated Vikings....its the Vikings...they sack everyone...Jared Allen had what 5 a few weeks ago...6.5 on the year.
Quinn had 4 against the undefeated Broncos...all four to Elvis Dumervil...who leads the league with 8
Quinn got sacked 1 time against Balt
DA got sacked 1 time against Balt
DA got sacked 2 times against the Bengals
DA got sacked 1 time against the Bills
So yes...Quinn got sacked 9 times.to DA's 4..but 8 have come against the current top 2 sack teams in the NFL...Minn has 18...Den has 16
Pitt is 3rd(15) and the Bengals(14) (who got 2 on DA) are tied for 4th.
That Bills defense is not close to the Vikings or Broncos Defense...so you can't compare that either IMO.
HACK
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Im I the only one thats bothered by the fact that players seem to be saying we play harder when one guy is in over another?
The defense should not care who lines up on the O....Play every down...fight for every blade of grass....no matter the score...or who is playing?
What if a Guard said....well...I play harder when my boy is in at FS?
To quote Chuck Noll "If I have to motivate you...I will cut you"
HACK
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I don't buy that load about the players playing harder because DA is in at QB. The fact is they can't come out and say anything bad about either QB especially the one starting.
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Quote:
Quote:
my take is the effect of DA playing on the rest of the team vs the effect of quinn playing on the rest of the team. all the reasons have been listed but it has nothing to do with DA's overall performance. it's clear the team (offense, defense, and special teams) believes DA is the better option and that's shown in their play as well as d'qwell jackson's recent quote.
If this is as true as some people seem to think it is then I think it's a real problem... what happens at the end of the year if we trade Quinn, keep DA and draft a QB in the first or second round and the kid comes in and starts? When the rest of the team fails to play as hard as they can shall we just accept it and say "Oh well, put DA back in, everybody has some undying devotion to him."?
i really believe this but i don't think it's teh problem you say. it's a relative thing. i'm not saying they have an undying dedication to DA, just that they believe in DA more than in quinn.
eventually, i think both of them will be gone.
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I'm just tired of DA and can't understand why people have written Quinn off already.
Not for nothin Mox,, but it wasn't so much us that wrote Quinn off as much as it was the management of the Browns.. I think many folks on here would have been very happy to have quinn be successful.. I know I would have.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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OH I know what you are saying tt..
Here's the thing,, I'm pretty sure that DA isn't the long term answer.. I'm equally sure that he's the best for THIS team at THIS moment in time. That's not to say it won't change, it's just that for the moment, he's the guy who has the job and it's up to him to keep it.
That is NOT a ringng endorsement for DA.. Nor is it Quinn bashing.. It's just what I feel at this moment...
Nicely stated, and I agree 100%.
Some feel I am a DA lover (attack, that is). I'm not. What you said is what I feel, I just haven't found the right words to say it.
You did. 
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Quote:
• Browns QB Brady Quinn for Titans QB Vince Young
Whaaaaa? Yeah, you heard me right. This would be much more than trading one guy who likes to go shirtless when he parties for another guy who likes to go shirtless when he parties. The beauty of this deal is much more than -- here it comes -- skin deep.
Tennessee has a core group of talent -- specifically a superb running game and very good defense -- that one season ago went 13-3. Kerry Collins is on his last legs and VY is a quarterback who can only use his legs. It's clear Jeff Fisher and the Titans staff have exactly ZERO confidence in VY.
The same is true for Quinn in Cleveland. Head coach Eric Mangini gave Quinn a legit chance to win the job and Quinn never did a whole lot to make the decision for Mangini. But there are coaches and scouts who believe Quinn truly does have the skill set and potential to be a good NFL quarterback. Put him in a solid environment, surrounded by quality coaches and good complementary talent and he could make plays. That's Tennessee.
As for VY, a move to Cleveland would offer Mangini a nice Wildcat-type threat for the future and other options with Young on the field. Mangini already has proved he's willing to make the bold trade and he could be just the disciplinarian-type that VY needs. And make no mistake, the Browns still would draft a quarterback in 2010. VY would be an expensive role-player next year, but his cap number is roughly the same as Quinn's and his contract would be much less moving forward.
thiis is the part you were refering to I guess..
Ok,, If Mangini feels that Quinn will NEVER work out and that he still has to go out and get a Stud QB because DA is only the stopgap.. Then I can see this.. IF we can get VY to take a contract more befitting his new role as Wildcat guy not stud starter...
Otherwise,, Strange... I don't believe it will happen.. JMO however.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
So yes...Quinn got sacked 9 times.to DA's 4..but 8 have come against the current top 2 sack teams in the NFL...Minn has 18...Den has 16
Pitt is 3rd(15) and the Bengals(14) (who got 2 on DA) are tied for 4th.
I will add that 5 of Quinn's sacks have also come in the second half when we were down by 2 or more scores... so the yards in garbage time keep getting mentioned as not counting but evidently the sacks when you are in comeback desperation mode and everybody knows you are going to throw do count... 3 of them came in a stretch of 5 plays by Dumervill and those weren't coverage sacks, he went through St. Clair like a turnstile.
yebat' Putin
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Quinn being dangled in the NFL
lakes?
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