DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Queen Pelosi Rolls Out YOUR Health Care Bill

page 29: Cost sharing.

Watch. Your out of pocket expenses will start at $5000 for an individual, and $10,000 for a family.

Every one - EVERY ONE: Please read page 39.

You'll laugh your tail off............."plain language that even people with limited English proficiency can understand......"

I propose that the bills congress votes on follow that.

Page 47: The new "health commssioner" will appoint a health "ombudsman" that will rule on any insurance "issues".
Red tape, anyone?

More bureacracy, anyone?

I'm not against health care reform, but i am all for letting this attempt crash and burn. It's unacceptable to me in so many ways.

And contrary to what may be popular belief on her, I am not against health care reform.

But honestly, to have reform for no other reason than to say "look, we got it".....it's pathetic.

I quit reading after about 60 pages. For tonight anyway. I'll read more. Hey, at least I'll be one step ahead of the people that voted on it. I will read the whole thing.

I really don't see this plan passing. It has a lot of holes in it(some of which you've pointed out). I am very strongly for healthcare reform, but this plan is change for the sake of change. I think people need to put the R's and D's away and realize that the current system has so many holes in it, that they owe it to the people they represent to do this right and actually make a logical plan.

Not very likely to happen I know.

There is a difference between reforming health care and rewriting it. I'm for the former.

j/c
They are not doing Healthcare reform...they are doing a money and power grab in the Insurance industry...

j/c

Page 70. I will paraphrase: There will be created in the treasury a Retiree Reserve Trust fund. This money will be used to "re insure" retirees.........and somehow it will start off with "not more than $10 billion"

Anyone nervous yet? Look at our social security trust fund - there is none. Medicaid/medicare trust fund? Not there.

But this time it will be different, right?

Page 109-110.

We're going to create yet ANOTHER trust fund. This one is the Health Insurance Exchange Trust fund. Neat.

How will this fund get its money? TAXES!!!!

Taxes "on individuals not obtaining acceptable health coverage."
Taxes on "employers not providing acceptable coverage"
"Excise tax on failing to meet certain health care requirements.


That's right.......if people or companies don't play our game, we'll tax the hell out of them. That'll show'em we're serious. (and lose jobs).

Page 116thru 120....Public Health Insurance Option. This "option" will start off with $2 billion in order to help pay for people that can't. The good news is, once people start paying premiums, the PHIO will repay the treasury, amortized over 10 years.

Sounds like they think this public health insurance option will be self sufficient. After all, it will be for those that can't afford to pay premiums for other plans.........so of course the gov't. will think they can afford to pay THIS premium. (oh, but on the ensuing pages, they conveniently mention that for people on this plan, the GOV'T. will determine the amount it pays for care received.) Genius!!! In all fairness, the gov't. will have to base what it will pay on what it pays for medicare and medicaid.

In other words, all the doctors and hospitals that currently say they lose money treating medicare and medicaid patients???? They'll get to treat the PHIO people the same way - lose money.

But, it's a win win for the gov't. alright.

Just an aside here. Someone tell me if I'm wrong.

But, currently, doctors and hospitals lose money on medicare/medicaid patients. Yet haven't we been told that this $1.2 trillion plan will be offset in part by a reduction, over 10 years, in medicare/medicaid payments of $500,000,000,000.00? That's $500 billion - in cuts - over 10 years.

Sorry - this one I had to copy - I can't determine exactly what it means.

This is in regards to health insurance under the public option - health insurance credits....basically, the gov't., as I understand it, will pay a certain portion of the premiums for those that can't. (those that can't are families that earn less than 400% of the poverty level for their family size - yup - if you only make 390% of the poverty level, you get help)

11 SEC. 242. AFFORDABLE CREDIT ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUAL.
12 (a) DEFINITION.—
13 (1) IN GENERAL.—For purposes of this divi14
sion, the term ‘‘affordable credit eligible individual’’
15 means, subject to subsection (b), an individual who
16 is lawfully present in a State in the United States
17 (other than as a nonimmigrant described in a sub18
paragraph (excluding subparagraphs (K), (T), (U),
19 and (V)) of section 101(a)(15) of the Immigration
20 and Nationality Act)—

My question is, what do lines 15,16,17,18 and 19 mean? Obviously, I don't have subparagraphs K, T, U, or V of section 101a of the Immigration and Nationality act.

Can anyone help me out?

Oh, isn't the federal poverty level for a family of 4 about $25,000?

Oh, here it is. For a family of 4, the 2009 Federal Poverty level is $22,050. http://www.atdn.org/access/poverty.html

So, if you make, as a family of 4, 399% of that or less, someone else will help you pay your insurance. Do the math. If you, as a family of 4, make less than $88,000 per year, you'll get help on your insurance. Am I right, or am I missing something?

Page 133: 3 (B) with family income below 400 percent
4 of the Federal poverty level for a family of the
5 size involved;


Wow. I have a family of 4. We're below that level.....and I thought we were doing damn fine!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704795604574522680235765894.html

Confessions of an ObamaCare Backer
A liberal explains the political calculus.

The typical argument for ObamaCare is that it will offer better medical care for everyone and cost less to do it, but occasionally a supporter lets the mask slip and reveals the real political motivation. So let's give credit to John Cassidy, part of the left-wing stable at the New Yorker, who wrote last week on its Web site that "it's important to be clear about what the reform amounts to."

Mr. Cassidy is more honest than the politicians whose dishonesty he supports. "The U.S. government is making a costly and open-ended commitment," he writes. "Let's not pretend that it isn't a big deal, or that it will be self-financing, or that it will work out exactly as planned. It won't. What is really unfolding, I suspect, is the scenario that many conservatives feared. The Obama Administration . . . is creating a new entitlement program, which, once established, will be virtually impossible to rescind."

Why are they doing it? Because, according to Mr. Cassidy, ObamaCare serves the twin goals of "making the United States a more equitable country" and furthering the Democrats' "political calculus." In other words, the purpose is to further redistribute income by putting health care further under government control, and in the process making the middle class more dependent on government. As the party of government, Democrats will benefit over the long run.

This explains why Nancy Pelosi is willing to risk the seats of so many Blue Dog Democrats by forcing such an unpopular bill through Congress on a narrow, partisan vote: You have to break a few eggs to make a permanent welfare state. As Mr. Cassidy concludes, "Putting on my amateur historian's cap, I might even claim that some subterfuge is historically necessary to get great reforms enacted."

No wonder many Americans are upset. They know they are being lied to about ObamaCare, and they know they are going to be stuck with the bill

I'll let that be enough for right now......and I'm only to page 130 something.

I can't wait to get to the pages where they describe how this will be paid for!!!!

People, wake up! The only thought that went into this bill so far was: 1 let's make it all legalese so no one understands, and 2. since no one understands it, let's promise things, and tax the hell out of people and companies - more money, more power.

Why not come up with, say, a 100 page bill. That enables current insurers to insure anywhere in the states? Throw in a clause for major medical/catastrophic medical....

Legitimately, meaning across the board, raise taxes, say, 3 to 5% - on EVERYONE. If you get gov't assistance, you lose the 3 to 5%................

This doesn't need to be rocket science.

Plus, all this, and it still won't cover everyone.

Sorry folks.......this is a "take their money and make promises we'll never meet" bill.

Quote:

---

This doesn't need to be rocket science.

---

Amen to that.

Agreed arch. From what I have seen, this just taxes people to pay for people that can't afford healthcare. This bill in no way addresses the number 1 issue of healthcare: the sky rocketing costs.

This administration has the most ridiculous, idiotic funding plans I've ever seen.

It started before the election....promises to pay for 100 billion in green initiatives by "closing tax loopholes for big oil companies". Counting the 100 billion like it's sitting in a bank account ready for use.

The health care plan will be funded by cutting billions in medicare and medicaid fraud, taxing the uninsured and taxing those with "cadillac" insurance.

They use the projected figures as if it were money in the bank. I can't believe anyone is foolish enough to buy this crap. If it were so easy to cut the fraud and turn it into cash, don't you think it would have been done already?

What gets me, is that these arseholes can say this stuff with a straight face.

Wanna talk hocus pocus?

Try this: Pages 156-159......this bill amends the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 - and consequently is able to fine companies, under THAT code, from 23 years ago, up to $100 per day per person not covered, up to a maximum of $500,000.00.

This bill amends a 1986 bill? How can they do that? Just because they write it?

Another side note: I have noticed in the first 160 pages........scads of "do it or else" phrases/amendments/threats......but no where have I read what would be covered.

Interesting. So far, this looks like a threat to citizens and especially employers.

Never ceases to amaze me how gov't. works.

Ah, page 167.

5 TITLE IV—AMENDMENTS TO IN6
TERNAL REVENUE CODE OF
7 1986
8 Subtitle A—Shared Responsibility
9 PART 1—INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY
10 SEC. 401. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE
11 HEALTH CARE COVERAGE

Basically, what it says is, if you don't have insurance - "acceptable" insurance, they have amended the 1986 IRS tax code to state that you will be taxed even more in order to cover your noncompliance.........(noncompliance with what? article 4, subparagraph b, section 1, article 19, subsection 9, relating to the 1946 tax code, subsection 490000590.1?)

Can you believe this?

What I just cited - the tax penalty for non compliance.........it doesn't apply to non resident aliens. How damn convenient........tax the people that are here legally, AND pay taxes - but omit the illegals?

170
1 ‘‘(2) NONRESIDENT ALIENS.—Subsection (a)
2 shall not apply to any individual who is a non3
resident alien.

(the 170 is the page number of the bill)

Page 183 and 184.....Get this: If an employer elects to NOT offer an "acceptable" insurance option, they will be penalized (by another amendment to the internal revenue code of 1986) up to 8% of their payroll. (Granted, this: ‘‘If the annual payroll of such employer for
the preceding calendar year:
The applicable
percentage is:
Does not exceed $250,000 ..................................... 0 percent
Exceeds $250,000, but does not exceed $300,000 2 percent
Exceeds $300,000, but does not exceed $350,000 4 percent
Exceeds $350,000, but does not exceed $400,000 6 percent)

Imagine you are an employer. Say you have 25 employees, at an average salary/income of $40,000.

If you don't offer an acceptable insurance option, you will be fined $80,000. Plus, you will then have to offer an acceptable program, OR, your employees MUST go to the Health insurance Exchange market......and the gov't. will fine you for making your employees do that, PLUS you get to pay for it.

Wow. Talk about business friendly. I can hear business doors slamming shut already.

At least employment will decrease, there by putting even MORE people on the public dole........which creates? Gov't. dependency.

Here's how we pay for it: tax the "rich".

16 ‘‘SEC. 59C. SURCHARGE ON HIGH INCOME INDIVIDUALS.
17 ‘‘(a) GENERAL RULE.—In the case of a taxpayer
18 other than a corporation, there is hereby imposed (in addi19
tion to any other tax imposed by this subtitle) a tax equal
20 to—
21 ‘‘(1) 1 percent of so much of the modified ad22
justed gross income of the taxpayer as exceeds
23 $350,000 but does not exceed $500,000,
VerDate Nov 24 2008 12:51 Jul 14, 2009 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00197 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 C:\TEMP\AAHCA0~1.XML HOLCPC
July 14, 2009 (12:51 p.m.)
F:\P11\NHI\TRICOMM\AAHCA09_001.XML
f:\VHLC\071409\071409.140.xml (444390|2)
198
1 ‘‘(2) 1.5 percent of so much of the modified ad2
justed gross income of the taxpayer as exceeds
3 $500,000 but does not exceed $1,000,000, and
4 ‘‘(3) 5.4 percent of so much of the modified ad5
justed gross income of the taxpayer as exceeds
6 $1,000,000.

Wow, awful lot of penalties for something they did for us.

Anyone who buys this mess really need to look into the mirror. Pretty soon, those who can provide for the "less fortunate" will opt to go somewhere else.

I take great pride in helping my brother, but I also expect him to realize that I have a family too. I work for what I get, and I share when I can. But this is gun point robbery.

Okay, I'm 208 pages into this thing and I still haven't seen what this health care thing will cover. I do know everyone must have it. I do know if you don't have it, you're screwed.

I do know businesses will be forced to shut down because of it, and I do know costs for everything health care related, and honestly, everything else related, will rise.

But I don't know if cancer treatments are covered. What about strep cultures? Bunions? Asthma? Surgeries? Prescriptions?

No mention of ANY of those things. In over 200 pages, all we find so far is " you'd better have it or you will be taxed out of your mind".

I bet in the next 50 pages or so I'll find that you'll be taxed out of your mind regardless of whether you have insurance or not.

...and then I pointed out specific examples of what I meant r.e. this administration's funding plans in this thread concerning the new health care bill. Dredging up Bush follies here is just as irrelevant as bringing up Clinton's misdeeds in Bush threads.

Page 272. Interesting. Line 10. The Secretary shall conduct a survey to see if the cancer treating hospitals, hospitals specializing in cancer treatment, have a higher cost per patient than other hospitals. If so, the secretary has the ability to adjust payment.

Neat.

Page 281:

Can someone please decipher this for me? I have to post it as it is written"
4 ‘‘(2) BASE OPERATING DRG PAYMENT
5 AMOUNT.—
6 ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in
7 subparagraph (B), for purposes of this sub8
section, the term ‘base operating DRG payment
9 amount’ means, with respect to a hospital for a
10 fiscal year, the payment amount that would
11 otherwise be made under subsection (d) for a
12 discharge if this subsection did not apply, re13
duced by any portion of such amount that is at14
tributable to payments under subparagraphs
15 (B) and (F) of paragraph (5).

So far, at page 300, I see nothing about care.......all I see is "subsection b, paragraph j, amended by section T, as allowed by the secretary. The secretary shall determine the allowable payments to doctors and hospitals subject to a determination of topics in the 1986 IRS code, subparagraph b, sentence 9

And crap like that.


I will guarantee, this bill, if passed, will raise the employment rate by about 1 million people. But they will be gov't. jobs, financed by taxes on those few of us that actually pay in every year, and the people doing the job won't have a damn clue about any answers.

This is one of the biggest boondoggle bills I have ever heard of. EVER! Pelosi, Obama, and anyone that voted for it ought to be ashamed of them selves.

And I'll guarantee, I've read more of it than anyone that voted on it.

Pages 315 and 316. Physicians must report EVERY thing in the time the "secretary deems suitable", or face a $10,000 fine per day.

Yup, that'll drive down costs and decrease our healthcare costs, won't it?

Page 322 and 323: Hospitals may not increase by more than 200% the operating rooms, procedure rooms, or beds of the hospital, according to some baseline this yet to be known secretary establishes.

Neato. Hospitals won't be able to grow?