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The President has "some" football background
Not some, NFL Team Presidents need equal knowledge at both ends, football and business management to be successful.
Sorry man but again, your wrong, but type your book telling me and everyone else otherwise, but it won't change the point your off base, again... Were used to it, but man I hope you don't really believe half the things you state...
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Surely the news that former Steelers coach Bill Cowher might return to coaching next year has to intrigue him. Lerner tried to lure him out of the television business after last season and couldn't. That's when he turned to Mangini.
I've mentioned this before, but I still get the feeling that Cowher told him he wanted to wait a year or two before going back into coaching, and that the Mangini pick was a throw-away pick to wait it out and get Cowher.
Remember Randy also wanted Parcells and was really interested in Pioli as well. Mangini wasn't even in his top three choices. I get the feeling Mangini might have been a sacrificial lamb to wait it out and get one of the "bigger" names. Sure this year might really suck ... but wouldn't you be happier in the long run with a bunch of high draft picks and Cowher in here, than a 2nd tier coach similar to Mangini for 3 years?
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Well, KoB, you're going to be disappointed again, because Lerner was talking about bringing in another football guy, not a business CEO like you are describing.
Well we are pretty much screwed then....we have no organizational infastructure at all
Mike Keenen is the problem, and until he is removed, this team will be a mess.
guys like McKay and others " have no idea how to properly structure a conductive front office and working environment"
these GM';s HAVE NO CLUE
Our Front Office needs "serious" reogranization, and it needs to be done Corporate Style...
It has to be a guy with a Corporate background to reorganize this front office....these GM know football talent, but they don't know jack about creating a conductive working environment, or structuring a front office in a sound logical manner.....
I personally would be fine with leaving Koke or even hire whatever football guy you want, as long as a Strong CEO Type of President is above him...
Let the GM decide the roster, but the GM must be evaluated and watched by a strong Coporate CEO that is the buffer to Lerner....that will make sound hiring decisions on a GM to begin with....
if we put a football in charge of reorginizing this organization, forget it...20 years from now, we will STILL be having this convo and the Browns will be god awful
this is the SINGLE biggest mistake Lerner has made
why doy ou think the NFL assigned Collins to us?
Collins tried to reign in Savage, we later found out the reasons why...Collins was in the right here, like it or not, Lerner should have listened to the guy...
I have feeling this change may not be for the better, I will sit back and see...
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Randy Lerner has been one of the most successful businessmen in the World and is a Billionaire.
Are you really telling me that he is not a smart enough businessman and needs to hire someone to run the business for him? Because the Cleveland Browns are one of the best run businesses in the World and is a billion dollar company.
Methinks he doesn't need a traditional business man more than he needs someone who knows how to evaluate talent properly and place a good team on the field.
Thank you.
The business side of the Browns is a success if you look at the bottom line. Personally I think the way they treat the fans and media is embarrassing compared to how the Indians and Cavs treat the media and fans, but I couldn't care less if the team were winning.
Our "czar" needs to be a football guy a la Parcells in Miami. Parcells has NOTHING to do with the business side of the Dolphins...but I'll be damned if the football operations aren't top notch.
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Methinks he doesn't need a traditional business man more than he needs someone who knows how to evaluate talent properly and place a good team on the field.
I agree ... I think he over-reacted to the whole Savage thing. That really was the best structure. He just ended up getting a guy that couldn't handle the step up to GM.
He went away from the GM->Coach model and went back to the New England model (and to a lesser extent the Aston Villa model) were the Coach runs most of the show ... and it has failed miserably.
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If you look at his first examples, he tried to put people together who really did not work together well at all. From what we now know about Collins/Savage/Crennel, SAVAGE was trying to consolidate all the power to himself, wanted to run the operation all by himself, even down to decisions that the coaches would make.
Also, Kokonis was hired damn near by Mangini. So what independence of thought does he have?? And if he is so competent, why are all these x-jets not doing well at all?? Why didn't Lerner start questioning them right after these pickups OR after the debacle called the "draft"??
As far as this current mess, why didn't he go back to the tried and true Football Ops Pres->GM->Coach model. At least ones that would work together and if there were differences, bring it too the Owner as the tie-breaker?? Also, again, if you have been burned by hiring guys who had little experience in their new positions, wouldn't you look for experienced hires first??
As far as future hires, Cowher, for all his success was NOT TOTALLY in charge in Pitt. Holmgren and Shanahan did not have success when they held multiple positions. So why hire any one of those guys as Coach/GM/Pres????
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From the "what else would he say?" department, here's the article via Mary Kay Cabot at the Plain Dealer on Mangini's comments today:
Cleveland Browns' Eric Mangini feels owner Randy Lerner's support
By Mary Kay Cabot
November 02, 2009, 3:46PM
BEREA, Ohio -- Browns coach Eric Mangini said he talked to Browns owner Randy Lerner on the phone this morning and that Lerner still supports him despite the 1-7 record.
"I've never gotten a feeling otherwise in all of my conversations with Randy,'' said Mangini.
Lerner said Sunday after the 30-6 loss to the Chicago that he was "sick about'' the 1-7 record, but wouldn't fire Mangini during the bye week this week.
"I talked to Randy this morning and it was very similar to all of our conversations,'' said Mangini. "This is a process. We talked about that quite a bit. It doesn't mean we're not going to try to win every week ... Randy and I share the same vision. What we do talk about quite a bit is what's the best way to achieve that. I always have very good conversations with him and always will.''
Mangini also said he has no plans to replace offensive coordinator Brian Daboll, but that he might rely more on the experience of quarterbacks coach Carl Smith, former offensive coordinator of the Jaguars.
He also said he'll use the bye week to determine whether or not to replace Derek Anderson with Brady Quinn, who entered the Bears game with just over three minutes left in the game.
"I've known Brian (Daboll) for a long time,'' said Mangini. "He's very smart. He'll grow. We share the same vision offensively. Carl is a great compliment to him. He has a lot of experience calling plays and that's one of the reasons I wanted him on the staff.''
Mangini said he didn't replace Anderson earlier because he pulled the Browns to within 16-6 early in the third quarter and had the Browns driving near midfield when Steve Heiden was stripped of the ball - one of five giveaways by the offense.
The Browns also penetrated the Chicago redzone in the fourth quarter on a 19-yard catch by Mohamed Massaquoi -- but Massaquoi was also stripped of the ball.
"I really believe if we protect the football better, those drives will be extended,'' Mangini said.
He re-iterated that he'll evaluate the operation from top to bottom during the bye week.
Last edited by aben1088; 11/02/09 05:43 PM.
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Well, he does actually have someone "running" the business for him. Mike Keenan is the President of the Browns.. he's not a football guy, he's a business guy..Supposedly, the top "football" guy is Kokinis,, but I doubt that's really the case. I don't think there is much wrong with the "business" side of the Browns. It's the football side that is all screwed up... that's where a guy like Charlie Casserly would help.. (not necessarly charlie, but a guy like him with that kind of experience) If Randy could lure Ron Wolf out of retirement or Ernie Arcorsi.. that would be pretty good if they aren't permenantly in retirement mode..  As I suspect both are. but that's the kinda guys I'd like to see on the 'football" side. Now if he could get Ernie in the house, and have him Tutor Bernie Kosar for a year or so,, that would be perfectly fine with me.. ernie and Bernie have a bit of a history..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Same guy who said there was no way Brady would play against the Bears... Excuse me if I'm not taking his word at face value. 
you had a good run Hank.
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Well, if you are hiring a NEW person, chances are they are either going to be A) NEW to the position, or B) EXPERIENCED but available only because they failed at the job the last time. The "experienced" guys who are successful, tend to stay employed.
And you talk about successful, winning structures ... New England's system is based on Bellicheck running the show with a lapdog GM, and no substantial GM calling the shots over them. (See Butch and Mangini) Baltimore's system is based on Ozzie running the show as a GM, with a coach beneath him, and no substantial Pres calling the shots above them (See Savage/Crennel). These were the two systems Lerner tried to model ... he just couldn't get the guys to pull it off.
And there's no guarantee that hiring one guy over the other is going to work. A bunch of people wanted Pioli as a GM here running the show, and now he's at KC doing a worse job there than what we have here.
How about being an owner who when he sees/hears that an oprganization of his is not running well, and the leaders are not communicating(Collins/Savage/RAC), go in and fix it. Well he did that alright, let Savage run everything into the ground. And for all the RAC hate, RAC over came HUGE HITS as far as injuries and still had his team playing hard and get this--> SCORING PTS!!
And no, I did not want him to fire Mangini before the season started. BUT I wanted him to be able to look at the status of the team and ask him why are they playing worse than last year. Because that was evident by the last preseason game. OK, but lets say we give him until game 4, because it was apparent by then. After that, the Buf game was a win but you cannot hang a hat on a 6-3 game.
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We'll just wait and see what Lerner has to say this week. He did tell the media he wanted a day or two to re-group and focus, and would talk again.
Based on the way Lerner exploded after the game, you would think something has to happen. I don't think you can form any sort of opinion based on what Mangini says. He's trying to protect his own image.
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As for why AV is doing well, he hit it on the nose the first time out.. That's just pure luck.
Theres been a couple of quotes now praising Lerner's role and the success of Aston Villa. He didn't make this a successful business FYI.....Villa were a successful money making commodity when Randy bought them; they weren't struggling by any means. He just slotted in as the owner and employed a great Coach, the infrastructure was already sound.
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Oh, and one other very small and minor detail, but why would Mangini be speaking with Lerner on the phone if he's in Berea?
The sense I got from Lerner's conference with reporters yesterday was that he was going straight back to Browns headquarters after the game to have some "serious discussions, thoughts," etc. If he's there - and we know he'll be there as early as tomorrow morning to meet with Randall and Schaefer - why weren't they speaking in person?
Just something to ponder.....
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I'm not saying Daboll will lose his job but Mangini was getting close to putting him under the bus with this line: Quote:
Mangini also said he has no plans to replace offensive coordinator Brian Daboll, but that he might rely more on the experience of quarterbacks coach Carl Smith, former offensive coordinator of the Jaguars.
Then the reporters should ask what will change then?? What changes need to be made that you have not made since June??
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And if he is so competent, why are all these x-jets not doing well at all?? Why didn't Lerner start questioning them right after these pickups OR after the debacle called the "draft"??
Okay, so we're all in agreement that Randy is no football-mind, but you want him openly questioning the guy put in charge of selecting his team?? Before the players even see the field? Based on WHAT??
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As far as this current mess, why didn't he go back to the tried and true Football Ops Pres->GM->Coach model.
Tried and true where? As I mentioned before ... New England and Belicheck is set up like our current model (Mangini). Baltimore is setup like our past model (Savage/Crennel) ... even Pittsburgh is pretty much setup as GM->Coach. Is inserting more layers of bureaucracy really going to solve anything?
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Also, again, if you have been burned by hiring guys who had little experience in their new positions, wouldn't you look for experienced hires first??
Like who? As I said before, the only guys with "experience" are going to be either guys who are A) unemployed, because they couldn't cut it the last time out ... or B) Retired. And Randy tried to lure Cowher here already, so it's not like he's not trying.
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As far as future hires, Cowher, for all his success was NOT TOTALLY in charge in Pitt. Holmgren and Shanahan did not have success when they held multiple positions. So why hire any one of those guys as Coach/GM/Pres????
And then you just shoot down the only three guys with "experience" ... so who exactly do we hire then?? 
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I'm not saying Daboll will lose his job but Mangini was getting close to putting him under the bus with this line:
Quote:
Mangini also said he has no plans to replace offensive coordinator Brian Daboll, but that he might rely more on the experience of quarterbacks coach Carl Smith, former offensive coordinator of the Jaguars.
Then the reporters should ask what will change then?? What changes need to be made that you have not made since June??
I've been generally disappointed with the questions from reporters during these press conferences. It's almost like they are scared.
My first question at today's presser would have been:
"Eric, after the game yesterday, Randy Lerner was visibly frustrated with the fact that the team is no longer competitive. In fact, Lerner said it's a priority to find an experienced leader to oversee your decisions. Your response?"
It just seems like, even though Mangini is intentionally giving ridiculously bland and vague answers, reporters are still scared to confront the man. They've got a job to do, so go do it. If it's pertinent or relevant, ask it.
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The fans of this team are punch drunk.
We have lost the ability to effectively evaluate the situation and formulate a prudent path as sure as Mangini has lost this team. Knee-jerk decisions, unchecked brainstorming from a population of scorned, bitter abuse victims is all we are doing at this point.
Lerner has done what any owner has done. You want to see evidence of his ability to run a major sports franchise? Look at what he's done with Aston Villa. The man has 80,000 people chanting his name at every frickin game. That guy has been duped by coaches who should have been a lot better than they ended up. He fell for the newest, most sexy predicter in coach selection; someone from the "Belichek Tree." Yeah, well that tree is nothing but a weed. Belichek is his own coordinator. He needs a couple of talking heads to liason between him and the team but that's it.
Mangini has learned from Belichek. He's learned how to alienate players and fans. He's learned how to stubbornly stick to his way like a bear trap. He has learned how to out-tyhink himself and he has learned how to justify it all. He has not learned how to be a good coach. This guy is a wreck. And he totally misrepresented himself.
You guys want Randy to sell the team? Ridiculous. If he was villified enough to sell this team, do you think that he would give a rats behind about who bought it? Heck no. He'd sell it to whoever wasstupid enough to pony up for a broken franchise - whether it was going to LA or not. Wanting Randy to sell the team is like saying you want Cleveland to say goodbye tyo the Browns.
You all who want Lerner gone? Shut up! You do not speak for me!
There is no reason to think that his emotions are of the crockodile variety. His team is a joke. He has been duped into a couple of bad hires and now his feet are to the fire. I believe he will get the right people in place and we will emerge from this dark age. But to blame him is misplaced anger. He has spent the money, supported his guys and gotten little return for it.
I can't believe that you would rather have All Davis or Dan Snyder running this team. It's ridiculous.
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j/c
I can't believe some of the BS that is being spewed out. "Worst draft in history". And then there's the crap about the President being a business guy.
It's to the point where more than 50% of the stuff said is stupid. I see that we have an awful team and I can even understand wanting to fire Mangini. But people are jumping the gun way too much.
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Just so you know, redddog, the Browns CANNOT move to L.A. The franchise and the NFL have a 50-year lease with the city of Cleveland. So no one would be "buying and taking us to L.A." Unless the purchase were to occur in 2049.
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Quote:
Theres been a couple of quotes now praising Lerner's role and the success of Aston Villa. He didn't make this a successful business FYI.....Villa were a successful money making commodity when Randy bought them; they weren't struggling by any means. He just slotted in as the owner and employed a great Coach, the infrastructure was already sound.
That's only because Doug Ellis was such a money pinching miser, he made Ebenezer Scrooge look like Mother Teresa. 
He employed a sound football mind (Martin O'neil) and also inserted various other heads to improve fan experience and marketing as well. Everyone I've talked to says the club is miles better than it was before.
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Quote:
The President has "some" football background
Not some, NFL Team Presidents need equal knowledge at both ends, football and business management to be successful.
Sorry man but again, your wrong, but type your book telling me and everyone else otherwise, but it won't change the point your off base, again... Were used to it, but man I hope you don't really believe half the things you state...
"shakes his head"  
I also get insulted to boot...figures
im done here, take your shots, have fun i'll be back in 10 years when this team still sucks, and then we will talk indeed.....
Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this madness"
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I think the majority of the posters right now are just fed up and frustrated at this season...and why wouldn't anyone be.
just think of this board as one big counseling session where people are allowed to vent and say what they need in order to get through the season.
#gmstrong
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You want to see evidence of his ability to run a major sports franchise? Look at what he's done with Aston Villa. The man has 80,000 people chanting his name at every frickin game.
Firstly, see post a few up from this one.
Secondly, the Stadium Capacity is half of what you posted and they used to sell out their games before Randy arrived.
Can we get off his jock about Aston Villa? He didn't raise Accrington freakin' Stanly FC from the Doc Martens league to the heady heights of the Premiership and European glory here..... 
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Quote:
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The President has "some" football background
Not some, NFL Team Presidents need equal knowledge at both ends, football and business management to be successful.
Sorry man but again, your wrong, but type your book telling me and everyone else otherwise, but it won't change the point your off base, again... Were used to it, but man I hope you don't really believe half the things you state...
"shakes his head"
I also get insulted to boot...figures
im done here, take your shots, have fun i'll be back in 10 years when this team still sucks, and then we will talk indeed.....
Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this madness"
So instead of defending your point as to how a businessman would somehow produce a better football team, you're going to fold up shop and go home?
Bye!
you had a good run Hank.
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Tried and true where? As I mentioned before ... New England and Belicheck is set up like our current model (Mangini). Baltimore is setup like our past model (Savage/Crennel) ... even Pittsburgh is pretty much setup as GM->Coach. Is inserting more layers of bureaucracy really going to solve anything?
Remember, Pitt has a GM->Coach set up but they have always had a tight control of who comes in, who gets a big contract..etc. Remember, Cowher always complained about not having more control with the talent leaving..etc. New England gave Belicheck more control over the years, plus their owner is pretty involved in that football operation. The Rats have a strong Pres->GM-> coach relationship but Pres and GM do alot of the picking, the coaches just coach and advise on talent.
Our problem in the past was that Savage went against alot of things RAC suggested as far as talent. Now when it came to replacing the O-coord, I agreed with that. But Savage was not a good talent evaluator and then wanted control everything else, from front office to field decisions.
As far as Cowher/Holmgren/Shannahan -> you just have to tell them that you are setting up this structure to benefit the entire team, not just them. You find out what GM your Pres will hire and then get in their head to see what type of coach they want and why.
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"I think I should evaluate me," he said, only half-jokingly.
He indicated that he wasn't ready to give up on Mangini despite being obviously distraught about the state of the team. But he did strongly indicate that it's time for him to bring in a football authority who can help straighten out this mess.
"There's absolutely no question about that," he said. "The highest priority that I have is a strong, credible, serious leader within the building to guide decisions in a far more conspicuous, open transparent way. I can maybe defend decisions by saying I've sought advice and I've brought people in, and we've gone to see people -- and I think my highest priority is to have a stable figure that represents the voice that explains the decisions."
Exactly what he means by that, he didn't really say. But it sounded as if he's prepared to hire a team president to try and get this team on track. He's already brought former Browns quarterback Bernie Kosar on as "another pair of eyes," but didn't respond when asked if Kosar could be the "serious leader" to "guide decisions."
Ideally, Lerner said his person would be someone that's been groomed to do the job and has a vast amount of experience. He said the person may or may not already work for the Browns.
just clicking...
I posted a few days ago that Lerner needed to bring in someone to run the football side...a Bill Parcells type who is the Executire VP of Football Operations with the Dolphins.
I believe Lerner is not kidding at all when he says, he needs to "evaluate himself". Lerner has been calling the shots and his record in hiring and firing speaks for itself.
My take on what is said in this article leads me to believe that Lerner realizes he has not done a very good job and he realizes he needs someone who is an experienced football person to help him run the franchise.
IMO, if the Browns are going to have any creditability, going forward (next season), Lerner will have to bring in an Executive (of Football Operations) who is respected by players and coaches around the NFL...someone who is seen as very serious about turning this franchise around.
I wish I could say that Bernie Kosar could be that person Lerner needs to hire for the position, but Bernie lacks in experience and creditability only because he has never held any executive position at the NFL level.
Marty Schottenheimer's name has been talked about as a possibility. Marty does have the creditability and experience in the NFL and could be a possibility.
As for Mangini...he is toast.
The players do not appear to like him nor want to bust their butts for him. IMO, Mangini just seems to come off as arrogant and above the players. I guess the first indication that Mangini's attitude toward his players could be a problem occurred early on with his dust up with Shaun Rogers shortly after Mangini was hired.
Mangini does not seem to be the type that can change the way he is, therefore its best for franchise if he leaves after the season.
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Regardless Excl, if we're talking results, the PL finishes under RL are comparable to what they were under Deadly Doug....and they've had several higher league table placings under Doug since the Premier Leagues creation. I'll agree over the appointment of O'Neill. What Randy has done is given the Villa credibility in the cash stakes but their still riding the coat-tails of some of the bigger investors......pop quiz, can you see Villa winning the League within the next 10 years?
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nope....im not going to bother...they are not going to listen to me anyways...so its pointless for me to continue...Just as they wouldn't listen to John Collins who basically said Savage was a dolt....seems Collins was right all along...
have fun folks...
oh P.S: John Collins had 15 years experience in the NFL, and he is just such a terrible President Front Office guy, that he is the freaking CEO of the NHL for crying out loud.
but this guy was just so awful..
Last edited by Knight_Of_Brown; 11/02/09 06:33 PM.
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Didn't see this anywhere else... Quote:
Last week, the Browns quietly dismissed Erin O'Brien, who had been one of Mangini's confidantes both here and with the Jets.
When he was hired by the Browns, Mangini wanted O'Brien to serve the same function she had with the Jets, which was assistant to the head coach. He was denied that request by owner Randy Lerner, sources said. O'Brien instead was given the title of director of team operations.
Cleveland.com
It seems like Mangini is losing control slowly. First, Bernie Kosar is hired. Which probably didn't go over too well. Now Mangini's "confidant" has been shown the door.
I hope this all leads to Mangini being shown the door.
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Legend
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he needs someone who knows how to evaluate talent properly and place a good team on the field.
He may be a very bright business man.. I might argue that most of what you give him credit for was actually accomplished by his father and he was the beneficiary of it, but that's not important right now... But let's start with the premise that he is a bright businessman.. let's also start with the premise that there are bright football guys out there that can identify talent, manage the talent, coach the talent, etc... what Randy needs is somebody to bridge that gap between him, the businessman... and the GM, scouts, and coaches, the football guys.... the ideal candidate needs to have a decent working knowledge of football but more importantly, the guy needs to know how to manage PEOPLE. He doesn't need to be a brilliant businessman, he doesn't need to be a brilliant football guy... he needs to know how to recognize talent in coaches, GMs etc and he needs to know how to manage PEOPLE. That is a skill often overlooked... for example, I think Bill Belichick, if he quit tomorrow, would be an AWFUL NFL franchise president.. ton of football knowledge, too much of a control freak, not a good manager of people.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Didn't see this anywhere else...
Quote:
Last week, the Browns quietly dismissed Erin O'Brien, who had been one of Mangini's confidantes both here and with the Jets.
When he was hired by the Browns, Mangini wanted O'Brien to serve the same function she had with the Jets, which was assistant to the head coach. He was denied that request by owner Randy Lerner, sources said. O'Brien instead was given the title of director of team operations.
Cleveland.com
It seems like Mangini is losing control slowly. First, Bernie Kosar is hired. Which probably didn't go over too well. Now Mangini's "confidant" has been shown the door.
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I hope this all leads to Mangini being shown the door.
Yea reports say O'brien burned so many bridges, that even mangini couldn't save her job. What is with this regime.? They have no people skills whatsoever. Thta's a huge part of any job, especially a position of authority
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If we want to get this guy,Randy needs to wait until after the season to fire Mangini or Randy should have this guy do it for him. In fact this guy just might want to keep Mangini but run the war room, scouting operations , and personnel decisions. We could use someone like this. Holmgren: Redskins’ treatment of Zorn was wrong Posted: November 2nd, 2009 | NFL.com Staff | Tags: Jim Zorn, Mike Holmgren, Washington Redskins The bridge that was connecting Mike Holmgren to the Washington Redskins head coaching job, should it come open, might have been blown up on Monday. And Holmgren was the one holding the gasoline can in one hand and a burned match in the other. On the “The Waddle and Silvy Show,” Holmgren was asked by the Chicago radio hosts, Tom Waddle and Marc Silverman, what he thought about the Redskins removing the play-calling duties from head coach Jim Zorn, who was Holmgren’s quarterbacks coach in Seattle. “I thought it was very unfair to put him in the position. The position they put Jim in, it shouldn’t happen,” Holmgren said. “You can be upset with me as a play-caller or how the team’s going, (then) fire me. But don’t do that. Don’t pull the rug out from under me, tie my hands, make me look foolish … take away what I came there for to do in the first place. Don’t do that.” It has been rumored that the Redskins were on Holmgren’s short list of teams he would like to coach should he come out of retirement in 2010, an idea he has been publicly pushing for months. He has said on at least one occasion that he would love to coach on the East Coast after long stints in the Midwest with Green Bay and the West Coast in Seattle. Time will tell if he has eliminated himself from the Redskins job after his strong comments on Monday, or if Holmgren was eliminating himself after witnessing the team’s treatment of a good friend. “That bothered me a lot,” Holmgren said. “Jim Zorn is one of the nice people. I’m a nice guy, but I’m not that nice. Jim Zorn is really a nice man. What they did, I did not like it at all.” http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/11/02/holmgren-redskins-treatment-of-zorn-was-wrong/calling a snake a snake gives this guy creds with me.
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Hire him, if he makes the decision to jettison Mangini then that's what he's there for. If not, same situation.
Whoever comes in will not want this guy unless again Lerner says that is a prerequisit to work with Mangini which will then eliminate any good candidate.
Still say it's an all or nothing endeavor!
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Legend
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I'd rather see Schotts myself, I just believe in the guy but I certainly wouldn't complain about Holmgren.
#GMSTRONG
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Not for nothing,, but this is what mangini is saying this afternoon.. Quote:
Cleveland Browns' Eric Mangini feels owner Randy Lerner's support
By Mary Kay Cabot
November 02, 2009, 3:46PM
BEREA, Ohio -- Browns coach Eric Mangini said he talked to Browns owner Randy Lerner on the phone this morning and that Lerner still supports him despite the 1-7 record.
"I've never gotten a feeling otherwise in all of my conversations with Randy,'' said Mangini.
Lerner said Sunday after the 30-6 loss to the Chicago that he was "sick about'' the 1-7 record, but wouldn't fire Mangini during the bye week this week.
"I talked to Randy this morning and it was very similar to all of our conversations,'' said Mangini. "This is a process. We talked about that quite a bit. It doesn't mean we're not going to try to win every week ... Randy and I share the same vision. What we do talk about quite a bit is what's the best way to achieve that. I always have very good conversations with him and always will.''
Mangini also said he has no plans to replace offensive coordinator Brian Daboll, but that he might rely more on the experience of quarterbacks coach Carl Smith, former offensive coordinator of the Jaguars.
He also said he'll use the bye week to determine whether or not to replace Derek Anderson with Brady Quinn, who entered the Bears game with just over three minutes left in the game.
"I've known Brian (Daboll) for a long time,'' said Mangini. "He's very smart. He'll grow. We share the same vision offensively. Carl is a great compliment to him. He has a lot of experience calling plays and that's one of the reasons I wanted him on the staff.''
Mangini said he didn't replace Anderson earlier because he pulled the Browns to within 16-6 early in the third quarter and had the Browns driving near midfield when Steve Heiden was stripped of the ball - one of five giveaways by the offense.
The Browns also penetrated the Chicago redzone in the fourth quarter on a 19-yard catch by Mohamed Massaquoi -- but Massaquoi was also stripped of the ball.
"I really believe if we protect the football better, those drives will be extended,'' Mangini said.
He re-iterated that he'll evaluate the operation from top to bottom during the bye week
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/11/cleveland_browns_eric_mangini_16.html
Not exactly sure what to make of this.. I mean, Randy already said he wasn't going to fire him at this point.. But no way did I figure Mangini would receive a vote of confidence.. if indeed he did!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Isn't the vote of confidence an almost sure sign you're got one foot in the bucket? I just can't believe the part about Daboll. How do you justify keeping this guy? EM should be fired for that line alone.
#GMSTRONG
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Isn't the vote of confidence an almost sure sign you're got one foot in the bucket? I just can't believe the part about Daboll. How do you justify keeping this guy? EM should be fired for that line alone.
Could be that it's Randys version of Rope A Dope.. dunno 
I don't understand keeping Daboll either..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Regardless Excl, if we're talking results, the PL finishes under RL are comparable to what they were under Deadly Doug....and they've had several higher league table placings under Doug since the Premier Leagues creation.
Well over a 20 year span they might have had higher finishes (all when the Premier League started out too) ... but before RL took over, the team was mostly treading water. They've finished in the top third of the league the last two years, and are threatening again this year.
Sure, 15 years ago they finished in the top 4 and won a League Trophy or two ... GM was once a widely successful car company too.
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I'll agree over the appointment of O'Neill. What Randy has done is given the Villa credibility in the cash stakes but their still riding the coat-tails of some of the bigger investors
What investers? Wasn't Ellis a 51% owner, with fans owning a stake in the team? RL is 100% owner now, and the only other "investers" he has right now are the people he's pulled in through marketing/advertising deals.
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......pop quiz, can you see Villa winning the League within the next 10 years?
Possibly ... unlike the Browns, there's a great foundation at Villa. The youth team is one of the best, and Villa's current squad is full of guys under 25 looking to get more time in the national squad. The biggest hurdle to get over is that "Top-4" barrier ... since the Champions League is pretty much a "double your revenue" venture, and it's pretty hard to dethrone someone up there. They've got the team to push for it, and if they can finish top 4, it definitely opens the door for a League win down the road.
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There's a VERY JUICY RUMOR out there on a WELL KNOWN RUMOR SITE.
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Don't think Mangini is getting fired, but I just read that another person may have just been..... more to come I'm sure soon if true.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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