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Quote:
I think the goal should be to build a team that can be a legitmate playoff contender and then add guys to put you over the hump and hope that luck is w/you. In short.....build a team that is a legitimate playoff team and one that can sustain it for at least a few years.
That sums up my feelings very well 
Now DIAM hold your breath bud incase you think I am pulling a Ace Ventura again and talking out of my ass  I still would like to see the Browns trade DOWN. If Quinn, Thomas, Johnson or whoever is still available at 3 or 4 is still on the board, I still want to see another team drooling over whoever it is enough that they give up the farm to move up and get them. WHY you might ask..... because we just have to many holes on the team that need filled with the top problems being the O and D lines. IMO we can improve a lot faster by filling as many holes as quick as we can.IMO we can improve the team a lot quicker by adding a combination of three or four starting O or D lineman, than we can by adding any one player. You build your team thru the draft, then you can trade up in the draft later, or throw around the huge bucks in Free agency to add the final pieces to the puzzle.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
If Thomas is available and they deem him to be a franchise LT and Quinn isn't a franchise QB, they must take him. I gotta add that I think it is harder to acquire a good LT than it is a QB who is good enough you can win with.
This is one spot we completely agree on...Might as well say this is 1999 all over again cept we aren't picking at 1...lol...
Quinn and Thomas...Both available???...We could use both...Given a choice we gotta go THOMAS simply because we can almost always nab a QB in FA that as u say is capable of winning...If we head toward finding that QB in latter rounds we'll be talking about this for 10 years...The Brady's/Bulger's/Hasselbeck's are much more the exception than the norm...
The ONLY possible way we get stuck with having to make a choice between the 2 is if Johnson goes 1 or 2...Cause if he doesn't...Then Oakland has taken Quinn or Russell...And Detroit has taken Quinn or Thomas...Now if Oakland takes the BEST player in this draft in Johnson...Detroit may well take Russell...Now we have our choice at 3...And maybe even at 4...
Bottom line...10 times outta 10 I take Thomas ahead of Quinn in our circumstances...Having Frye allows me to do this along with the fact that QB's can be had via FA or a Trade...And a trade may just involve a 1st rounder...When u need a QB and u can find a solid one...SO WHAT...U give a 1st for a Starting Caliber QB...U will NEVER be able to get a Franchise LT even for a 1st rounder...Teams don't even wanna talk to ya' for a LT...But they will for a QB...Go figure that one out...lol...
Now let's talk about the 5 spots Savage said need attention...I'm speculating here that these 5 spots are POSITIONS and not UNITS...Cause if they're UNITS...We're in deep [censored] cause there's only SEVEN UNITS on a team...lol...
I'll go out on a limb and say these 5 positions are---------
Rg
Lg
Center
DE
NT
Sound fair???
Now how do we address them???
Notice QB and LT aren't on the list....And here is another reason I go Thomas all day long...
FA is argueably where u fill needs...So what do we do???
1) Sign a Dielman/Steinbach/Dockery for a Guard spot...
2) Ink Fraley for the Center spot to hold for Bentley's return and DEPTH upon that return...
3) Go after a Sands/Smith for a DE spot...Can anyone elaborate on this???...SANDS???...The dude is 6' 7"...IMHO he is way too tall for a NT...That's just me...I want a low gravity terd in there to do nuttin' but OCCUPY to free up the LB's...Could Terdell be that Terd???...If so...There's a building block acquisition...He's only 27 and approaching his prime...
This is the one UNIT I do not believe we will be able to hit all 3 spots this year with SOLID starters...(FA and within First Day Picks)...
Now we turn our attention to the draft...Here comes the Thomas reasoning...And this may get BLOWN OUTTA THE WATER if this FO plays the game of spending only a certain percentage limit of the salary cap on any one UNIT...We've got ALOT of bucks tied up into Bentley/Shaffer and a FA Guard if we snag one...A #3 pick will be costly...And it will add to that cap percentage spent on that single unit...
I SAY WHO GIVES A FLYIN'...............The cap is WAY over 100M now...I'd consider that percentage limit if we were still in the days of the 75M cap...Those days are gone...UP THE PERCENTAGES...
Now...Just as we hammered one UNIT last year...LINEBACKERS...I say COMMIT to it again this year...And make it the OFFENSIVE LINE...This is MY PLAN and how it gets done...
U hit the DL with a Sands/Smith FA signing...Roye is signed for 2 more years thru 2008...PERFECT to concentrate on his replacement NEXT YEAR...He's by far NOT the weakest link on this line...He's serviceable...
When u get to the draft and run a 3-4 defense...It makes finding NT's and Ends that much easier...WHY???...Most NT's are Tackles that are virtually One Dimensional...Quality NT's can be had in rounds 2-3-4...
Ends in a 3-4 defense are NOT Peppers types...If they were we woulda never got rid of Brown...Injuries or not...Court was one of the best Ends in football when healthy and argueably the BEST against the run...U will not find 265 lb Ends in a solid 3-4 defense...The word OCCUPY comes into play again...Free up the LB's and keep them CLEAN is what it's all about in a 34 D...
I'm goin' somewhere with this and this "Building" thang u eluded too...
Ends in a 3-4 can be converted TACKLES...290-300 lb TACKLES moving outside...New England hit the gold mine when they were high in round one and got Seymour...Then when they got good they were down in the teens and 20's and hit it again with Wilfork and Warren...But it's NOT necessary to bring in high first rounders for a 3-4 DL...Upon acquiring those 3...THEY TOOK OFF...
Point is???...We signed a Sands/Smith...Now we COMMIT to the OL...And we go for the DL IN ROUNDS 3 and 4...This makes room for this COMMITMENT I mention to the OFFENSIVE LINE in 2007...Finish the DEFENSIVE LINE in 2008...2 year plan...
Here's where the commitment plays in...
Round 1) JOE THOMAS (Not that 5 NEEDS thang but SERIOUS UPGRADE ACROSS THE LINE)
Round 2) AARON SEERS/JUSTIN BLALOCK/BEN GRUBBS
THERE is your COMMITMENT to the Offensive Line...
What have we just done??? Take a looksie...
Signed a STUD GUARD
Signed a Center to hold the fort for Bents
Drafted a STUD LT
Moved Shaffer to RT
Drafted a STUD GUARD to start Day One...
Thomas
Steinbach/Dielman/Dockery
Fraley
Seers/Blalock/Grubbs
Shaffer
And in 2008 when Bentley comes back???
Thomas
Steiner/Dielman/Dockery
Bentley
Seers/Blalock/Grubbs
Shaffer
The Offensive Line is FIXED and DOMINANT POTENTIAL that will keep both our QB CLEAN and Produce a SOLID ASS RUNNING GAME...And THAT is one of the 2 things a team MUST do in order to be successful in this league...
RUN THE BALL
STOP THE RUN
SCREW THE QB THIS YEAR...
And in rounds 3 and 4 u go after any combination of a DE that can play serious time in the rotation...And/or an OLB that can get penetration into the backfield...That Tweener...That 250 lb Defensive End to convert to OLB...That 300 lb DT to convert to End...
THAT is a serious FA and Draft upgrade to both the DL and OL...It is the single most important strategy that will turn this football team around quicker than ANY QB will...What's it take???
C O M M I T M E N T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And we've more than enuff cap space to go sign Clements or Samuel if we so desire...
We do this and we can fill-in the piece of the DL that is missing in the 2008 off season...Get that RB we need...An additional LB and even go so far as to make that TRADE for that QB we talk about...
Bottom line in 2007???
SCREW THE QB AND RB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go Browns!!!
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Quote:
---You never pass on a franchise QB if he is available...that is...if you don't already have one.
How do you know a franchise QB when ya see one, People said Couch was one, Leaf was one, Akili Smith was one, David Klinger was one, Just because he's rated high in the QB group that year or Mel Kiper says so dosent make him a FRANCHISE QB...Who crowns these players franchise platers or not,
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---If Quinn is available and they think he is indeed a franchise QB, they gotta take him.
It's 50% on if he's a franchise QB or not, with those percentages what does that make him.
I do agree with alot of what's written, but to build a franchise or a winning franchise you cant do it from a book, if ya could everybody would have one. Nobody knows what a Franchise QB looks like or dosent look like, it's all in the luck. All anybody can do is weight the good points VS the bad points and hope and pray it works out. There are some QB that you can look at and see they have a better chance of being a franchise QB, Payton, Brees, Farve, but we also saw things in couch, Leaf, Mcnown, and they fizzled baddly, so ya never know, I do believe if ya have a serviceable QB and we do a team needs to plug up other hole it has, O-line and D-line.
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Dawg Talker
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i'm right thar witcha on most of it, VERS... ... minor thing... Quote:
Add the perimeter players only after you have established the other areas that I previously mentioned.
i don't actually disagree, but must mention that is ONE PHILOSOPHY...if the cupboard is bare, you can stock it over several trips in any order you want, as long as you get everything you need IN THE END...
i prefer to build inside-out as well, b/c:
A) it takes time for OL to gel/develop
B) good lines with poor perimeter talent yield better results than poor lines with good perimeter talent.
that said, we basically had NOTHING when the new regime arrived...there have been perimeter picks both fairly (e.g. Wilson...some good Gs still there) and unfairly (e.g. Braylon...no linemen there) criticized...but we're at the point where we have POTENTIALLY (i hate that word) good perimeter units (Kellen, Braylon, JJ and Jones, Bodden, ?Pool?)...
we're at a point in the development of this franchise that will define Savage...when the team is horrible everywhere, i can understand infusing pisspoor perimeter units with talent at the expense of the lines at first...don't like it, but i can understand some of it...now, if Savage takes a team with horrible lines and DECENT perimeter units, and fails to focus on the lines, i'm off his bandwagon and running the opposite direction (and that's a 'continuitist' speaking  )...
Browns fans are born with it...
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I am going to try and be objective as I can and try and add some reason to our discussions Objective? U mean no hateroid dropped in Peen says that anything less than a Super Bowl win is a failed season. It appears many people agree w/that position. And U actually felt that was worth even remotely mentioning? It's not even a consideration in my book.. Peen says a lot of things.. Where are the Browns?
---They don't have a franchise QB.
---They don't have a franchise LT, in fact, they are extremely weak at this position True..sooo the debate in this draft is -----Is BQ a franchise QB?
Is Thomas a franchise LT?
If the answer is yes to both then what's the better value?
If Opie goes Quinn, he already should have tried to upgrade the interior linemen in FA ..then he needs to hit some home runs in the draft..
BTW I keep hearing Lerner WANTS RUSSELL...Russell..russell.....
Nooooooooo....
If Phil goes Thomas , then I suspect he will have brought in a FA QB..
The reality is in this draft I don't see several QB's who'll be available in the later rounds as being good pickups over all the other needs this team has.
I think it'd be a mistake to take a QB in this draft after rd one..I wouldn't do it, I would focus on our needs this year if Quinn is gone.
If neither is there than Opie has a choice depending on if he has flexibility..
One I think he'll look hard at Peterson..yes Peterson...he'll look at Johnson the actual BPA on the board if he's not snatched up.
Here's my feelings..while Johnson is the best player rated, if Opie is offered a can't refuse trade-down..he should do it..WHY?
Too many holes..we need quality bodies..every year I wait for a trade down and it never happens...I hope it happens this year once again..
If no valid offers-take Johnson..(course he'll take Petersonwhich won't make me angry)..finish the WR core and move on..
Next I agree with U about drafting Dline..it's the next biggest need, then next comes CB..
This draft has more DE's than DT's so that's going to be a probem also..Phil might have to take a DT a round earlier than he wants to.
As I said CB is a problem to so I trust no one will be shocked when Opie pulls the trigger on a good one ..I expect it to happen..
He said they are targeting two-three areas to fix this year so I hope it's the Oline/Dline/CB areas that get the max attention.
Good thread Vers...
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 02/06/07 09:57 AM.
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This is 1 great last post DinD...I agree 100% with your assessment: screw RB+QB this year....and what is best: your scenario is absolutely possible.... Thomas + Sears/Blaylock/Grubbs would be great....too bad Carriker improved his stock so much, he would be a great 3-4 DE and was an early 2nd rounder before the Senior Bowl Here´s my pick for the 3rd round: DE Ray McDonald - Florida or DE/OLB Spencer - Purdue (reminds me of S.Phillips- SD) http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/raymcdonald.htmlhttp://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/anthonyspencer.htmlAnyway, great post and great thread.....most of what I could add has already been said, esp. by DinD last post
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Legend
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if u dont understand that a FRANCHISE QB is NEVER EVER PASSED on .. I have given u to much credit .... U just don't do it .... they are BY FAR and it aint even a close second the MOST IMPORTANT player on the team ...
LT'S DONT DICTATE WHAT U CAN AND CAN'T DO ON O .... QB'S DO ... its that simple ..... I'm pretty sure the colts fans weren't talking about how lucky they were to have Adam Meadows at LT when they were down by 3 scores against the pats ... *LOL* ...
I'm not gonna say anymore on that in this thread ... not the intent of the thread ...
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2nd String
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2nd String
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Other than the Peterson 1st round pick and Bentley maybe being back, I have to disagree with all the other picks being defense. You inferred this by not listing draft pick on other areas of Offensive weakness.
We need O-Line (two guards, RT or LT) with whatever else we pick. If Peterson's collar bone holds up he could be great, if it doesn't he'll be like Charlie Rogers, out of the league.
Ted Nugent said,"that Davy Crockett shooting at Santa Anna's Army was the right thing to do, he just wouldn't get the Hispanic vote today".
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Legend
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I'm not going to disect your post apart. As usual most of your straight football insights run pretty much parrallel with my own.
What to build first or last would be nice to hand pick it but with draft availability and strengths sometimes you just go with the strengths of the draft and get the best talent value that you can get. Yes all too often that leaves the 210-250 lb prospects as that athletic group are numerous and have value. When you need EVERYTHING it seems Savage is just trying to hit success rather than design the build up in a chronological order....it just waters down the quality. As the build up continue and passed up areas become less n less they get singled out. It might not be what I would do...I just understand what is being done.
But for instance...you have deemed RB to be a need. As I have all year long. But I cannot agree with your statement here.
"As of right now, they can add quality running backs after rd. 1. There are plenty of quality running backs."
Actually this draft is WEAK in the RB department...after Peterson n Lynch there is a big drop off. Sure their are kids who are interesting and can provide some Impact as prospects such as Hunt, Bush, Booker and Leonard. But in a draft that is weak these all will move up making it less value. Where as a guy like Hunt...in a relatively avg. to strong RB class would be a 4th round prospect will have to be gotten in the 2nd round.
Next year there are 25 Jr. RBs coming eligible for the draft (not all will apply) as well as some decent Srs. who didn't come out this year. That draft will be deep and definately ABOVE AVG. in strength.
If RB was one of just a few needs we had. I can see us investing in one and it would carry us more weight. But with still varied needs from OLB to LOS both OL n DL - I just don't see us investing in RB unless its one of the two truly studs of this draft, Peterson n Lynch. Afterwards its not Savage's style to pick into a weakness of a draft. Not so much as design but in value for talent. If there was a RB deemed high on our charts and we see that as a steal...sure he jumps on it.
But that would be tough odds considering the level of talent out there.
JMHO...So I agree with you. Nowadays football wise you need 2 RBs to carry the load. We really don't have a stud just serviceable RBs. But I don't see us getting bang for the buck in rounds 2-4, Unless Leonard, Booker or Hunt falls which is doubtful. Possibly a guy with value will be there rounds 5-7 like Tyrone Moss or a Gary Russell - that could provide an upgrade to Wright or Harrison???
I just think that RB will be taken care of in our near future just not in the 07 draft - Again unless we pick Peterson or Lynch.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Free Agency: Terdell Sands DE Eric Steinbach / Kris Deilman OG Draft: Round 1. Joe Thomas OT Wisconsin Round 2. Justin Blalock OG Texas / Ben Grubbs OG Auburn / Aaron Sears OG Tennessee Round 3. Ray McDonald DE Flordia or Tim Crowder DE Texas Offensive Line: LT- Joe Thomas LG- Eric Steinbach or Kris Deilman C- Hank Fraley Until LeCharles Comes back (Whenever that is) RG- Justin Blalock / Ben Grubbs / Aaron Sears Depends on Draft RT- Kevin Shaffer Defensive Line: DE- Terdell Sands NT- Ted Washington DE- Orpheus Roye (Ray McDonald or Tim Crowder take over when RAC feels they are ready.) Already Lookin Better with 2 Free Agents and 3 rounds into the draft I also wouldnt mind if Joe Thomas went to the Lions and We Traded down with Green Bay so they could get Adrian Peterson or someone for Calivn Johnson and pick up some more draft picks. Then do something like this: Round 1: Levi Brown OT Penn State Round 2: Justin Blalock OG Texas / Ben Grubbs OG Auburn / Aaron Sears OG Tennessee Round 2: Kenny Irons HB Auburn Round 3: Ray McDonald DE Flordia or Tim Crowder DE Texas
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Here's what I would do......
FA
SIgn Micheal Turner to be our RB. His glaring ?? is his ability to handle it 20 times a game, becasue he's never done it. However, I think Reuben can still be effective in limited action, and can help make that ?? a non factor. He has the speed and power to be an elite back, and can catch out of the backfield as well. He's my solution to the RB mess, becasue like eo said the draft is weak on RBs. I love Hunt, but feel a Olineman or DL would help us out much more than a RB who can be had past Peterson or Lynch............and I don't want those 2.
2. Sign at least 1 starting quality DL that can help us for the next 5 years.......no more dinosours that are past there time, but a real starting quality DL.
3. SIgn a real starting quality interior OL. Screw trying to get OTs in FA, because you end op with Kevin Schaffer....lol. However, a big time interior OL can be had in FA............give me someone to go next to La.
4. Sign Fraley to insure the C spot in case La doesn't come back next year. I am still holding out hope, but I'm not holding my breath. Sign Hank and if La does come back we have options and at worst depth (imagine that foriegn concept to Browns fans)..........if he doesn't we aren't signing the Ephraim's of the world come TC.
5. Resign Russell in case Poole isn't ready, and becasue once again depth isn't a bad thing.
We all talk about cap killer, and cap hell, etc..., but we need help and there is noway to get it all through the draft..........hell we would have to hit on EVERY draft pick 1-7 for the next 3 years just to fill all of the holes..........aka IMPOSSIBLE!!! We need to start using all of our resources to get long term solutions, and we have the cap room to do it. Building through the draft is the right way to do it, but you do that to replace players that you have in place...............we don't have anyone in place. Spend some money on in their prime starting players Phil, and forget the dinosours of yesteryears glory.
Draft.
1. If we are picking at # 3 then we will have a shot at either Thomas or Quinn. Folks both of them aren't going to be there so there isn't any need to argue. Both are a tremendous need for us, and would go along way to helping us get back to respectibility. For arguments sake (and I think this is way far fetched imo), let's say both are available to us, who do we take?? Like you said bro, it's a question who we deem to be the true franchise player. I do, and my personal preference would be Joe, but I wouldn't be pissed with Brady either. So in round 1 (assuming we win that flip) we get Joe or Brady. If we lose the flip then we trade down if we can, and if not take the BPA that fills a need.
2. There should be some really good OGs available to us here, and 1 of them needs to be a Brown. No more Quincy or Poole picks here, but a true grunt.
3. 3-4 DL can be had in the mid rounds.........we need 2 of them here, and I hope 1 of them plays NT, because if not we are going to have a hole the size of Big Ted next year when the old fart finally blows............if it doesn't happen this year.
5-7...........BPA, because your not really looking to fill a need these rounds, but rather to get lucky and get someone who can contribute.
My plan doesn't fix all of our problems, but it would fix a bunch of them, and go along way to making us somewhat competitive this year, and would go along way to make us truly competitive in the future.........jmho.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Legend
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Quote:
Sign Fraley to insure the C spot in case La doesn't come back next year. I am still holding out hope, but I'm not holding my breath. Sign Hank and if La does come back we have options and at worst depth (imagine that foriegn concept to Browns fans)..........if he doesn't we aren't signing the Ephraim's of the world come TC.
Thank you.
#gmstrong
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j/c
I would love to see the Browns Sign Kris Dehlman(sp?) and draft Thomas and Sears. That would be my ideal offseason. Maybe then get a DL in the 3rd round and sign a FA QB and FA RB *depending on what it will cost, I might think about Turner, but would not give up anything above a 3rd rounder*.
you had a good run Hank.
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All Pro
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All Pro
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good takes on all points.
i will start off by saying that i will decide which direction in the draft after FA is over. which brings up what you said....
Use free agency sparingly.
i can understand not putting yourself in a hole down the road, and that's the only way i agree with that. this year we have bout 30 mil above the cap. we can sign alot of mediocre like we have every year in the past, or get off our wallet and go get somebody that will make an impact. with so much money we can afford to give bigger SB's which will get better players, plus we can afford to take the hit now while we have cash in hand. i would rather spend the 30 mil on 2 good/great players than 15 bums like we've signed in the past.
now to the draft. i can agree to draft the franchise QB when you have the chance, but i just don't see that sure thing in this draft. quinns good, but if he had gone to vanderbilt i don't really think we would be hearing this much "franchise" BS about him. i have said all along to build from the foundation up, and unless it's a payton manning, that's what i will stick to.
this is one draft where i don't think we can go wrong with any pick we make, so whatever we do is gonna fill a piece to the puzzle.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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OP
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I can't possibly reply to all of the posts, so I will try to reply to a few posts that cover some of the most talked about points, so please don't be offended if I don't specifically respond to each post. One more thing before I start....there are a lot of great replies and thoughts here.....I appreciate it. Thank you. Quote:
still think RD can carry the rock. He is one of the hardest hitting RB's I've seen.
AND
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I think we are alright at RB.
As you know, I am not a big RD fan. However, it is a fact that the Browns have a ton of pressing needs and can't fix them all right away. We may have to keep RD for awhile. He may be effective in a true two-back situation.
I agree w/you that he is powerful and hits hard. I do think he also takes way too many shots and I don't think anyone's body can w/stand that type of punishment. He is also getting up there in age for a RB. Too early to cut ties w/him, but having him share the carries might be the best option at this point.
I still think we can add a RB. tab says that this is not a deep running back class, but the NFL has a ton of guys who were drafted later and made big impacts, such as Davis in Denver. I think he was a 6th rd. pick out of Georgia. Was Willie Parker even drafted? What about Tiki Barber? Rudi Johnson? Marion Barber? It's a long list.
Furthermore, quality running backs such as Thomas Jones, Priest Holmes, Jerome Bettis, and Corey Dillon were acquired from other teams. I still maintain that we can improve our RB position w/out spending a high draft pick on one.
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Note: This is a tough decison for the Browns, but they have a shot at being in a position to either draft Quinn or Thomas.
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It may come down to the ability of Phil Savage to evaluate talent. If both are available to him I wouldn't want to be in his shoes. At that point he has to be right in his evaluation of both of these guys.
Bro............I think it's a great position to for Savage to be in. He can hardly mess up. This situation actually gives me hope. Yeah...me.  Savage has a great shot at drafting a true prime time player at positons that are extremely important to the success of your football team. What's not to like?
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That should set '09 as a very possible playoff season. The 5-year plan.
I don't see it happening before that no matter what route we take.
Yes, it is going to take time to build a good team. Mistakes have been made, but that is in the past. It's time to build this team correctly. Above all, Savage should not go for the quick fix.
This is a HUGE year for Savage. I think it is Thee Defining year in his career. We'll see how he handles it.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I did it again.  I forgot to copy my post before I hit the "Continue" button and lost it due to the time-out. It was rather long but brillliant.  Likely I'd have been elected President on the basis of it alone. I can't imagine typing it out exactly as it was written again so soon. The passion is gone. Excuse me while I bang my head on something... if I can find something harder than my head to bang upon.
#gmstrong
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Practice Squad
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Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 157 |
Been there and done that.
You can just use the back arrow to take you back to the screen, then copy it and start over.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
When I hit the back arrow the text screen was blank. That sometimes happens. I need to remember to copy it as the step just before hitting "continue". Typically I do.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,806
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,806 |
Quote:
It was rather long but brillliant.
I am sure it was brilliant as we have all come to expect that from your posts I have done that before and tend to lose the post because it frequently closes my IE. My solution is that if I know going in that it will be a long post I type it out in word then cut and paste.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,165
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,165 |
Just preview your post every few minutes.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,437
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,437 |
Typing in word and then copying and pasting works well too Great post Vers. Alot of what I have to say has been said already, so I will not duplicate it. I will say this much though, I don't think adding BQ is a good move at this point. I like what Quinn possibly brings to the NFL, but judgements are based on his attributes and skill set. There is no question he buckled in the big games, and really had no solid game against a good opponent to show his ability to handle these situations. Against consistent pressure, he was bad. That is what he will face everyday in the NFL. People can argue the fact that he had weak talent around him, but many QB's have succeeded in college and the Pro's without top talent in college, Steve McNair is an example. While the NFL and college are completely different, pressure is pressure on any level IMO. Another thing about Quinn that most people are forgetting is that if he does come here, there is no one for him to really sit and learn from. There is no veteran on this team to hold his hand and show him the ropes. Who will be his mentor? Charlie? Derek? KEN? The only hope for BQ in Cleveland is for us to sign a veteran, and if we are going to do that, why not let Charlie try to learn from the Vet for a season before turning our back on him? You make great points Vers, so there is not much to debate with you, however I am pretty tired of hearing about Quinn being a possibility. The bottom line is Charlie has just as good of a chance of succeeding here as Quinn does with our team in the state it is. No veteran leadership, and a pourous OL. No QB will succeed in this system right now, so I completely agree that we need to build this team from the inside out.
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363 |
Draft Thomas in rd. 1. If he's gone, draft Quinn. If both are gone...trade down. ---Go w/the best availabe at either DL, RB, OG in rds. 2-4. ---Draft BPA regardless of position in rds. 5-7. I was going to give my opinion, but you already gave it for me. I hate when you do that If Savage thinks the way you did, things will start to change. I think that the last two years were wasted trying to please the fan base with quick fixes. Losing with veteran FAs is worse than losing with unproven youth, that is young players with upside. I'm hoping Savage addresses the OL and DL the way he addressed the LBs last year. IMO Wimbley, Jackson, and Leon (forgot his last name), will turn out to be good choices as they gain experience. At QB, I would be willing to give Frye another chance, but I would definately bring in someone like Huard, a guy with experience and some success. Frye IMO suffers from not having a veteran QB to turn to on the sidelines. I'm surprised that you would choose Thomas before Quinn, but you are right on mark when you say that you NEVER pass on a franchise QB or LT. This is the year to get one of the two. If Opie goes RB or WR in the first, he will lose my support instantly.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
---You never pass on a franchise QB if he is available...that is...if you don't already have one.
I'm not entirely fond of Brady Quinn, but here's some food for thought on how it's done right...
Bengals:
2002 1st Levi Jones OT Arizona State
2003 1st Carson Palmer QB Southern California
2nd Eric Steinback OG Iowa
Colts
1997 Rd 1(19)-Tarik Glenn-OT-California
Rd 2(48)-Adam Meadows-OT-Georgia
1998 Rd 1(1)-Peyton Manning-QB-Tennessee
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030 |
So if it had been Manning setting there in 97 you don't draft him over Glenn??.........or since you drafted your QB first guess that means you just missed out on ever getting a LT. Some of your guy's theory's crack me up. I personally prefer Joe over Brady, but I can see the FO going for Brady, and if Joe goes 2 then we better draft him instead of the other lesser talents. Geesh if you don't like Quinn that's fine, but use sound reasoning instead of saying well........the colts and bengals got their LTs in the middle part of the round and then got a franchise QB....lol. The Colts and Bengals weren't in the same situation we are in, and that comparison is pointless.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,468
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,468 |
Whenever I time out... I hit my browser's "back" button and my original page comes up again. Then I can still copy, and redo my post....
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445 |
Nice try...Nice thought...
BUT NOT ACCURATE...
NO QB available for the Colts in 97 that was worth a damn...
#1 overall the following year...Gee...What normally goes #1???
No QB available to Cincy in 02 that was worth a damn...
#1 overall the following year...GEE...
It ain't like they passed on QB's till they got a line...Cause I GUARANTEE ya' that if Manning and Palmer were available when they had #1's BEFORE they had a line...THEY SNAG EM' EVERY TIME...
Go Browns!!!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 601
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 601 |
Quote:
Nice try...Nice thought...
BUT NOT ACCURATE...
NO QB available for the Colts in 97 that was worth a damn...
#1 overall the following year...Gee...What normally goes #1???
No QB available to Cincy in 02 that was worth a damn...
#1 overall the following year...GEE...
It ain't like they passed on QB's till they got a line...Cause I GUARANTEE ya' that if Manning and Palmer were available when they had #1's BEFORE they had a line...THEY SNAG EM' EVERY TIME...
Beat me to it bro.
08's QB class doesn't look like it will have any QB's that are any better than what will be available to us this year... Then again, I do not see any LT's next year that decimate Joe Thomas's skills either...
Tough decision for any GM to be in IF both were sitting there when the pick is in...
And for the record, I know alot of people on here like poking at Diam just to get a rise outta him but I do agree with him that BQ will be a Stud in the NFL and is as close to NFL ready as any QB that has left school can possibly be... I for one would LOVE to have him and wouldn't be heartbroken if we did make him our choice.. Granted, I also have a serious man-crush on seeing #72 from Wisconsin becoming our pick...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Hey Dawg.........you actually are talking football w/me again, instead of your usual BS of insulting what I say.  Quote:
I'll go out on a limb and say these 5 positions are---------
Rg
Lg
Center
DE
NT
Sound fair???
Fair enough, but I would put LT ahead of Center.
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Ends in a 3-4 can be converted TACKLES...290-300 lb TACKLES moving outside...New England hit the gold mine when they were high in round one and got Seymour...Then when they got good they were down in the teens and 20's and hit it again with Wilfork and Warren...
This is a good point.
Quote:
Here's where the commitment plays in...
Round 1) JOE THOMAS (Not that 5 NEEDS thang but SERIOUS UPGRADE ACROSS THE LINE)
Round 2) AARON SEERS/JUSTIN BLALOCK/BEN GRUBBS
I like this and must say that my dream draft starts w/Thomas in the 1st and Sears in the 2nd.
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Shaffer
Remember our PM conversation? What if I told you that the sooner we part ways w/Shaffer the better? He's a piece of [censored]. Almost as bad as Leon. I'm hoping Tuck can come back. We are probably stuck w/both Leon and Shaffer, but guess what players Davidson was talking about when he blasted a couple of guys Savage brought in?
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Bottom line in 2007???
SCREW THE QB AND RB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bottom line? Build the trenches and understand that it will take at least another couple of years before they are competitive.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224 |
Quote:
What if I told you that the sooner we part ways w/Shaffer the better? He's a piece of [censored]. Almost as bad as Leon.
You know if you chuck stuff like that out into the open you're gonna get called on it. (not in a "you're a liar" sense more of a "tell us more!! type thing )
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 496
1st String
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1st String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 496 |
Quote:
I'm not entirely fond of Brady Quinn, but here's some food for thought on how it's done right...
Bengals:
2002 1st Levi Jones OT Arizona State
2003 1st Carson Palmer QB Southern California
2nd Eric Steinback OG Iowa
Colts
1997 Rd 1(19)-Tarik Glenn-OT-California
Rd 2(48)-Adam Meadows-OT-Georgia
1998 Rd 1(1)-Peyton Manning-QB-Tennessee
The spin around here is better than the political threads. Just to put an end to this kind of spin I'll bet you Phil if either one of these teams had to make a choice between these two positions and let one of them go into FA it sure as hell would not be the QB!
Bet your life on it because I would.
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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