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Definitely singled out the wrong guy, in my opinion,...but without the facts, we're just left to guess.
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Definitely singled out the wrong guy, in my opinion,...but without the facts, we're just left to guess.
I dunno, I keep thinking there is much more to this..
But,, I had another thought. Maybe Randy has made his mind up to fire Mangini also, but in order to˜keep some continuity and not throw things even further into a dither.. He's decided to dump Koks now and Gini at the end of the year.. and by then, he may have his new GM on the hook..
Really, that's just thinking out loud...
#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Certainly there IS much more,...when do WE find out ? 
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Certainly there IS much more,...when do WE find out ?
Of course there's more to it.
It would make little sense to fire the GM after the trading deadline when he really doesn't have huge pro player responsibilities, and when he has little ability to affect this year's roster.
I mean ... what's the guy gonna do ... offer a ridiculous contract to a street free agent? Doubt it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Lerner's predicament is easy to understand: If he dumps Mangini at this point, he's on the hook for his contract (Mangini is in the first year of a four-year, $12 million deal)
So...take the incentive money they won't pay Quinn and get Mangini out of here!
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*In Baker we trust*
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Lerner's predicament is easy to understand: If he dumps Mangini at this point, he's on the hook for his contract (Mangini is in the first year of a four-year, $12 million deal)
So...take the incentive money they won't pay Quinn and get Mangini out of here!
The incentive money that they won't pay Quinn is part of the team's operating fund and salary cap figure.
Randy Lerner pays coaches and front office staff out of his pocket, and not with such money. Therefore, that wouldn't be possible.
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Yeah, but at the end of the day, it all comes out of Lerner's pocket.
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*In Baker we trust*
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Look at it any way you want,...it's still out of the "Lerner Fund."
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Now that I think about it more, it'd be kinda screwy huh? What do you get for demolishing the team and ruining 2 QBs? Oh, I know...$12 million dollars.  I could do that too. Does Lerner have some sort of "online" application site to be the next head coach yet?
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*In Baker we trust*
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Yeah, but at the end of the day, it all comes out of Lerner's pocket.
Sure it is. But the team's operating fund and hisown pocket money are two extremely different things.
The operating fund comes from ticket and sales revenue, money from NFL market sharing, etc.
The money out of his pocket is a direct hit to his bank account.
The issue is that the Browns are, and have been for some time, making money. Lerner realizes that fans are fed up, and that they probably will lose out on some big bucks (PSL's and season tickets) because of it. So is the $12 million that you'd pay Mangini out of pocket worth it to save whatever money you stand to lose from ticket and merchandise sales? We'll see.
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Weebbagie
Bob Hunter commentary: Powerless GM made Browns' scapegoat
Wednesday, November 4, 2009 3:09 AM
By Bob Hunter
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
There is only one way this ridiculous fire-the-GM-who-was-hired-by-the-coach move works: That's if Lerner, who is quickly establishing his credentials as the dumbest owner in NFL history, hires the smartest, toughest, doesn't-give-a-damn-about-Eric-Mangini guy he can find and gives him carte blanche to do whatever is necessary to make this dysfunctional operation work.
If that means firing Mangini, the coach who would be king, do it. If that means turning offensive coordinator Brian Daboll into a glorified ball boy, do that, too. If it means trading quarterback Derek Anderson for a bag of footballs, go for it. It's the only way any of this makes sense.
And he also faces the public ridicule of admitting that he totally blew it when he handed Mangini the reins of the franchise.
If Lerner isn't going to fire the guy who loaded the roster with former Jets, has alienated half of his players, has totally mishandled the quarterback situation and has his team off to a 1-7 start, then he at least needs to hire a competent football man and let him run the franchise. Unfortunately, Lerner has done nothing to indicate he's capable of finding and hiring a competent guy of any kind, so the chances of that happening at this point seem pretty remote.
Best article written BY FAR.....This guy knows exactly the problem....LERNER
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I like Kok more than Mangini.
Just curious,, why?
Because to the best of anybodys knowledge, he never made a significant decision... therefore he never screwed anything up... therefore he is lightyears better than Mangini. 
yebat' Putin
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NRTU......
OK people...just a little question for you....
There is a lot of speculation going on whether people want to admit it or not. Everyone is all upset because they "fired the worng guy"....BUT
If Kokinis is so innocent in all of this...if he was so wronged.....why hasn't he been interviewed to death and stating his case????? If Kokinis wasn't doing something wrong...whether it was passing info or fishing off the company pier or whatever the rumours say......if he wasn't doing any of those things...and if he has a legitimate gripe because he was left out of all the loops.....he would be in the papers and on the TV and even if he didn't say a whole lot about the issue he would still be there and making the appearances.......but he hasn't he has disappeared and holed up.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Best article my butt...This is another article written by someone who doesn't know jack squat about what is going on behind the doors in Berea and is just jumping on the Hate Mangini bandwagon so he can print articles....There isn't a single fact within the entire post except the that we are in fact 1-7....(Wow....did he have to google for that information???)
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Best article written BY FAR.....This guy knows exactly the problem....LERNER
Of course he's the one that made the hiring mistakes.. so that makes it his fault.. and I don't have a problem with it. One of the best owners of any NFL team, Art Rooney made 7 such mistakes before he hired Noll,,, if it can happen to him, it can happen to anyone... Lerner isn't immune...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If Kokinis is so innocent in all of this...if he was so wronged.....why hasn't he been interviewed to death and stating his case?????
I don't think anybody is saying that Kokinis is innocent or was severely wronged.. just that Mangini had almost all of the power so Mangini is MORE responsible for what we see on the field than he was...
And who knows why he isn't in the news.. I can think of a couple reasons, perhaps it is more personal than professional and he just wants it to die.... perhaps he doesn't want to be seen as the whiney guy he would appear to be so he can go into the next interview and tell THEM the story... Perhaps he was just a lap dog and doesn't really want to admit that in the press.. who knows, tons of reasons he probably doesn't want this media circus to continue. If he was the straightshooter some have said he is and if he was good at his previous job, then others, especially those who know Mangini, will be more than happy to offer him other positions... he doesn't need a legacy of a media battle with the Browns following him around.
yebat' Putin
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Best article my butt...This is another article written by someone who doesn't know jack squat about what is going on behind the doors in Berea and is just jumping on the Hate Mangini bandwagon so he can print articles....There isn't a single fact within the entire post except the that we are in fact 1-7....(Wow....did he have to google for that information???)
He hated on Lerned much more then Mangini...which is where I think the anger should be.
All he needs to know is who hired Mangini and Kok and let them get to this point....all the behind the scenes stuff not does not matter.
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Best article written BY FAR.....This guy knows exactly the problem....LERNER
Of course he's the one that made the hiring mistakes.. so that makes it his fault.. and I don't have a problem with it. One of the best owners of any NFL team, Art Rooney made 7 such mistakes before he hired Noll,,, if it can happen to him, it can happen to anyone... Lerner isn't immune...
Guess it can....but that was also 40 years ago. I'll give him a break after we win 6 super bowls (or 1) or even field a competitive team year in and year out
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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If Kokinis is so innocent in all of this...if he was so wronged.....why hasn't he been interviewed to death and stating his case?????
Because many of these contracts contain language that prohibits employees or former employees from talking about the situation under penalty of a loss of compensation and/or litigation.
Remember the words used when they talked about HOW Kok was fired.........Lerner tried to play the "just cause" card, so all the lawyers are telling all the parties involved to STFU.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Right, and that is certainly understandable......but he isn't even coming up saying "I can't talk about it, but I think in the end I will be vindicated" ....he isn't even saying "I can't talk about it"
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Koko's behavior at the end most likely got him in deep trouble. Who knows how much problem on the field it caused by reducing his role. Mangini is just giving PR there, it is huge. Explains alot of the problem.
If Koko was grinding O'brien to get back at Mangini, wow!!!!
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Frankly, I don't know what "Koko" could do to impact the play on the field except with personell moves...And it seems they reduced his power to do that...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Everyone who'd ever worked with him had nothing but good things to say.
Spectre, the situation doesn't matter. The Raiders and Redskins always get their FA's. It's all about the money.
Bad examples. Both teams are notorious for overspending in free agency.
If your point is that most players will come here if we offer more money than anyone else (i.e. overpay), I agree. Phil Savage proved that.
What's important is what they will do when the money is the same or similar. And if you think any reasonable person would come here in that case then I just disagree. I wouldn't and I grew up near Cleveland.
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Koko's behavior at the end most likely got him in deep trouble. Who knows how much problem on the field it caused by reducing his role. Mangini is just giving PR there, it is huge. Explains alot of the problem.
If Koko was grinding O'brien to get back at Mangini, wow!!!!
Nothing was explained...Once more U come in as if you have info..very curious as to who U really are...your posts look very familar to me...maybe we need to run a investigation on U...
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Everyone who'd ever worked with him had nothing but good things to say.
Spectre, the situation doesn't matter. The Raiders and Redskins always get their FA's. It's all about the money.
Bad examples. Both teams are notorious for overspending in free agency.
If your point is that most players will come here if we offer more money than anyone else (i.e. overpay), I agree. Phil Savage proved that.
What's important is what they will do when the money is the same or similar. And if you think any reasonable person would come here in that case then I just disagree. I wouldn't and I grew up near Cleveland.
Not to mention...most players and agents will shy away from any of that money coming through "playing time" or "to be earned" incentives....They will want more guaranteed....No more if I play 70% of the plays bonuses....it will have to be roster bonuses.
HACK
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Not to mention...most players and agents will shy away from any of that money coming through "playing time" or "to be earned" incentives....They will want more guaranteed....No more if I play 70% of the plays bonuses....it will have to be roster bonuses.
HACK
I don't think that is such a big deal...if Quinn wouldn't have stunk to high heavens, he wouldn't have been pulled and I think we can sell that.
the bigger deal is if the agent article over what some think was Jabari Greer is true....basically that we promised a contract or at least a 1pm decision on the 1st day of FA.....then, no contract and no communication until 4pm.
that stuff can cost a player millions and if we can't get players to come to us the first few days of FA because they don't trust our organization, that is a problem (note: most players I don't care about on the first few days of FA because the majority get overpaid anyway....but for the select few that we do want to sign, we need them to trust us)
#gmstrong
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Not to mention...most players and agents will shy away from any of that money coming through "playing time" or "to be earned" incentives....They will want more guaranteed....No more if I play 70% of the plays bonuses....it will have to be roster bonuses.
HACK
I don't think that is such a big deal...if Quinn wouldn't have stunk to high heavens, he wouldn't have been pulled and I think we can sell that.
I think its a bigger deal.....Sure Quinn might have been stinking it up...but DA is setting new records in futility weekly...and is still playing....does not matter why that is....but the perception is that its simply to save Quinns cap money...and perception is a powerful tool.
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well, they are both trust issues....so, both of them together is even worse.
#gmstrong
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A few more hours passed, but there was still no decision from the Browns’ brass. Finally, at about 4:30, they sent the player to the airport with no contract. At that point, I was very pissed because we had just burned a whole day of free agency. I called George and gave him an earful. He was apologetic, but he couldn’t give me a good reason why they didn’t sign the player. I could sense he was very frustrated.
The Browns were obviously never on the same page with this particular free agent and had yet to formulate a way to work together and make decisions. Another agent I spoke to had a similar experience. The signs were there from the beginning that Kokinis had little power and that the team was somewhat rudderless
Interesting..wonder what really happened..
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but that was also 40 years ago.
The point was, after Noll, the Steelers figured out the formula and they've since hired 2 more HC's and both have Rings... There must be a learning curve in the NFL just like about everything else in life...
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I'll give him a break after we win 6 super bowls (or 1) or even field a competitive team year in and year out
WOW,, you don't want much do ya.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Like I said, at this point, I would like to actually field a competitive team week in and week out....gotta start somewhere and today we are not even close
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adding: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/200...m-in-cleveland/Rod Hood says football was "terrible" for him in Cleveland Posted by Mike Florio on November 7, 2009 8:30 AM ET Veteran cornerback Rod Hood has had a strange year, to say the least. Cut by the Cardinals in late April, Hood made the rounds before landing in Cleveland. He signed with the Browns on May 26. On August 31, they released him. The next day, Hood signed with the Bears. On September 4, they released him. He finally found a new home -- his fourth of the year -- in Tennessee on October 15. So far, the relationship is working fairly well. His first start came in Week Eight's 30-13 win over the Jaguars, and Hood contributed an interception to the effort. Earlier this week, he talked about his experiences with Terry McCormick of the Nashville City Paper. The stuff that caught our attention the most related to his time with the Browns. "It had nothing to do with my play at Cleveland," Hood told McCormick. "It was one of those things where I really wanted to get out of there, because I didn't like how things were going, how things were being run there. I'm just a big guy on character and how things are supposed to be played out, and it wasn't a good situation for me. It was to a point where football wasn't even fun for me. It was terrible to me." Per McCormick, Hood didn't provide chapter-and-verse particulars. But Hood said he'd never encountered anything like it during his seven NFL seasons. "I don't want to go into it specifically. The owner is a good guy, and the organization in years past, but now they've got some people in there that's not running it the way it should be," Hood explained. "I've never experienced football [like that]. I came from two good organizations in Philly and Arizona, and I'd never seen football handled the way it was when I was there."The unspoken target of Hood's attack is, clearly, coach Eric Mangini. Though some might think Mangini has become a pin cushion for criticism because of the way he handles the media, we get the sense that it runs much deeper than that. A league source recently told us that former G.M. George Kokinis "changed" once he arrived in Cleveland, and that he seemed aloof and always fearful. The source believes that Kokinis changed due to the stress of working with (for) Mangini. And while we heard in the wake of the team's first and only win of the year that Mangini had changed for the better, another source told us that Mangini fairly quickly went back the other way. That said, there likely are more than a few players who don't have a problem with the way Mangini is running the Browns. For Mangini's sake, it would be nice if one or more of them would stand up and prop up the team's embattled coach.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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That said, there likely are more than a few players who don't have a problem with the way Mangini is running the Browns. For Mangini's sake, it would be nice if one or more of them would stand up and prop up the team's embattled coach.
Someone other than an ex Jet please.
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Someone other than an ex Jet please.
Funny thing is....you don't even hear THEM backing him...by now it seems it would be at least tiem for a gesture...there isn't any....again, what's that tell ya?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Funny thing is....you don't even hear THEM backing him...by now it seems it would be at least tiem for a gesture...there isn't any....again, what's that tell ya?
So...you want one of the ex-Jets to schedule a press conference to give EM a vote of confidence?
Has any reporter recently asked an ex-Jet for his opinion/support of EM? If so, has any player turned down that offer?  If so and either way, you KNOW we would have heard about it.
You are going over the top yet again. 
Try a little football talk about the ex-Jets...something like this:
Coleman was a very good acquisition.
Poteat was a very bad acquisition.
Barton and Elam...especially Elam...have been disappointing acquisitions.
Bowens has been ok...then not so ok.
Mosely is a good backup acquisition.
Trusnick is yet another STer brought in who is not a starter yet is playing over A Hall...and I don't get that at all.
Stuckey was supposed to be a good-hands guy who runs good routes...haven't seen that yet.
I don't know why Raitliff is on the team.
Since I don't want all these guys cut, I must think EM is a great coach and want him to Coach the Browns forever.
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Someone other than an ex Jet please.
Funny thing is....you don't even hear THEM backing him...by now it seems it would be at least tiem for a gesture...there isn't any....again, what's that tell ya?
Actually.. at least one of them has. You need to watch STO more often. It's amazing what you can hear if you really listen to ALL sides.
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Talk about going over the top man, lol
I can't watch STO...I can watch the locker room interviews though...and I'm sure there would be one backing EM on the freaking homepage if there was one
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Just clicking Looks as if Kokinis isn't going away without a fight.. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/11/legal_firms_set_to_take_the_fi.html[/url] Quote:
Legal firms set to take the field in Browns-Kokinis duel: NFL Insider
By Tony Grossi
November 14, 2009, 5:40PM
Joshua Gunter/The Plain DealerThe decision to remove George Kokinis from the Browns' front office is being described in football circles as a straight-up power struggle between Kokinis (left) and former close friend Eric Mangini.CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The firing of George Kokinis by the Browns may result in a fight between two high-powered lawyers.
Kokinis has retained the services of Jeffrey Kessler of Dewey & LeBoeuf in New York to represent him. Kessler has represented every major pro sports players association and litigated the landmark case against the NFL that led to the establishment of free agency.
The Browns will go to bat with Fred Nance, the managing partner of Squire Sanders in Cleveland. Nance was the city of Cleveland's point man in its fight against the NFL to secure a future expansion team after Art Modell's move in 1996. He later became one of five finalists to succeed NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue.
The Browns are trying to construct a case that Kokinis was fired "for cause," which would take them off the hook from paying the last three years of Kokinis' four-year contract. The Kokinis team will argue that the Browns breached their obligation that gave Kokinis full authority over personnel decisions.
"This is a pure power play by [Eric] Mangini," said a source close to Kokinis. "It's been that way from Day One. George was promised in his contract to have full control over all personnel decisions and reporting only to the owner. Mangini has chafed over that from Day One. I guess he thought that because of his friendship George would come in and just be a yes-man."
Kokinis was led out of the Browns facility after being fired on Nov. 9.
"It really came out of the blue to him," the source said. "I'm sure with every week's loss they decided they were going to do something to create some kind of diversion. They were under increasing pressure. If the team had been .500, I don't think this would have come down this way."
There has been some tentative discussion about a settlement to avoid a legal fight. If it goes the distance, Commissioner Roger Goodell may appoint the case to be arbitrated by Jeff Pash, the NFL chief legal counsel.
The Browns have declined to explain the reasons for the Kokinis departure
some high powered lawyers involved,, this could get interesting..
Last edited by Damanshot; 11/14/09 08:24 PM.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Legend
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Legend
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Lerner might find it cheaper to just go ahead and pay Kokinis and move on.
#GMSTRONG
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
"This is a pure power play by [Eric] Mangini," said a source close to Kokinis. "It's been that way from Day One. George was promised in his contract to have full control over all personnel decisions and reporting only to the owner. Mangini has chafed over that from Day One. I guess he thought that because of his friendship George would come in and just be a yes-man."
If this is true, then why didn't Kokinis simply use his contract as leverage when making decisions. Sounds to me like he's just a weak man who allowed himself to be bullied by Mangini. I don't mean that to say that Mangini wasn't in the wrong, but jeez, George, grow a set!
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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