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That's your opinion, but firing him for the sake of firing him doesn't do anything for the team, and likely undermines Lerner's position going forward.
Just as this is your opinion. You do know that just because YOU say it doesn't make it the truth, right?
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That doesn't even remotely begin to give us a "jump on next year.
Sure it does. It gets the vile taste of Mangini out of everyone's mouth. The players, the FO personnel, the fans. And it would probably lead to some wins that we're not gonna see with Manpoleon at the helm. Changing the culture from venom to normalcy, if you will.
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Now we get to the heart of your opinion: Make a change for the sake of making a change.
This is crap and even a professional BSer like you knows it. Mangini is the Cancer in the lockerroom. In his mind he's Bill Parcells, while on the field he's more like the Tim Floyd of football. I never thought I'd say it but I know damn well Romeo would have a better record right now.
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If the team does continue like this, Lerner may have no choice, but doing it during the bye-week? No sense in that.
There's plenty of sense in it. That's why Lerner won't do it. That is one small portion of this argument that we do agree on.
Lord knows I'm wrong plenty of times every single day. Ask my wife. But so far I've been right about every one of our HCs. I'm betting I'm right about this one as well. We'll see.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Mangini hasn't shown any proof that is capable of making decisions that equal propserous times for the Browns organization in the future ahead.
He has took a qb situation and messed it up like no other coach in recent NFL history. He is setting a predacent on that.
Brings in a GM from Baltimore that after 7 months,is shown the door..
A highly respected one around the league.
Brought over-infused 23 new players on the roster that have not panned out.
Got fleeced by the Jets on Draft Day.
Hired a guy to be a OC who previous had no experiance running a offense.
He was a positions coach on the East Coast.
Mangini put friendship before experiance.
And what do you get..a offense that is providing a new defintion for "pathetic".
His 2009 Draft has brought very few impact players......Robo...project..Massaquoi....raw...Mack..lost......Maivia.....career special teamer.....Francies......not ready......he left talent on the draft board is that is paying off dividends for other teams.
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Who's to say that Lerner really doesn't believe in Mangini?
He might, after all he's heard "the plan" and we have not. Maybe it's a good plan going forward. The problem is that most people don't trust Mangini and an increasing number of people don't trust Lerner to make the right decision...
yebat' Putin
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j/c
it kind of sounds to me that the browns would have a better chance of firing Mangini "for cause" then getting it to stick on Kokinis.
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Mangini is the Cancer in the lockerroom. In his mind he's Bill Parcells, while on the field he's more like the Tim Floyd of football. I never thought I'd say it but I know damn well Romeo would have a better record right now.
"Just as this is your opinion. You do know that just because YOU say it doesn't make it the truth, right?"
Too many people like to point at others and make sure they are aware that it's "just opinon." You do it all the time, Otto. It's a waste of space and doesn't accomplish anything, even in terms of talking about things that we have no control over.
MY opinion is blah blah blah..............YOUR opinion is blah blah blah............there's no need to constantly fall back to that position, especially when you try (and fail) to be insulting about it.
I don't believe in Mangini, but that doesn't mean he isn't a viable coach. There isn't a coach in the history of the league that could have turned this bunch around in one year.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Liquidating the excess by building for the future is a very much baseball like move.
I figure Randy had enough of "buying" suspect FA's and told Koko we were going the way of Mangini's plan and Koko couldn't handle it. Instead of working as a team on that plan, Koko began poisoning the waters, which the Browns began discovering in Augest, if anything, Randy didn't move fast enough.
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All of those suspect free agents are Mangini guys. Those aren't guys Kokinis brought in.
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There isn't a coach in the history of the league that could have turned this bunch around in one year.
Define "turned around"...
We went from bad to worse (as in THE WORST)... some will say that was necessary, I'm not so sure it was necessary for us to step back nearly as far as we did...
I'm fairly confidant in my OPINION..  ... that there are other guys out there who could have gotten this team headed in the right direction without first making it the laughing stock of the entire NFL.
yebat' Putin
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Well MY opinion is that so far, Mangini has done a lousy job with this team, has alienated too many people too many times. I'm not saying fire him NOW cuz he might turn out to be very good. But, it wouldn't break my heart, either. I think he's probably done after the season.
Last edited by lampdogg; 11/06/09 05:32 PM.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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So we are pretty much in agreement. I won't be heartbroken if he's fired tomorrow or at the end of the season... I also will support him and give him a chance if he is given next season to coach.. my single biggest concern is the cap money and draft picks we have in this offseason... if we squander this opportunity to build the foundation we need, we could easily suck for another 5 years... and that scares the hell out of me.
yebat' Putin
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Well, IF he's still the coach next April, I'm betting whoever Lerner puts in charge will have a lot of say, maybe the final say, in who we draft and sign as free agents.
I'm also not lovin' the 2009 draft outside Alex Mack; I know it's too early to pass final judgement, but I expect a little more from Veikune: a 2nd-round pick who rarely sees the field.
gmstrong -----------------
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My problem with his 2009 draft is that it looks like he out-thought himself.... I'm not saying the guys we drafted won't be good, I'm saying that there were some guys with better odds of success and possibly higher upsides that we left on the board....
yebat' Putin
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he hoped to find a veteran NFL general manager-type like Ernie Accorsi or Mike Holmgren to help shape the organization and help embattled coach Eric Mangini.
Here's a Newsflash!!!!! Nobody will come here as long as Can-gini is here!!!  LOL JMHO Go Brownies!!!
Who Let Da Dawgs Out? Woof, Woof, Woof!!!!!
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I don't feel sorry for Kokinis at all. I can't stand Mangini either, but to be in a leadership role, you must not be afraid of confrontation, especially if you're right. I'm a boss, and if I see someone hurting the business, or someone out of line, you better be assured, I'll let that person know. I wouldn't care if I didn't have support from the organization as Kok seemed to think. I rather get fired, but I'll go down in flames before I act like Kok did.
Bottom line Kok will never be a GM in this league again. He doesn't have what it takes personality wise.
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You guys need to remember that EM and Koko were "friends"....that's part of the problem of nepotism....
and when the bigoted clown did what he did to a "friend"...well, you get the picture
This is Mangini's professional BIO:
getting known in the slipstream of his "cheater" mentor, then snitching on his "cheater" mentor and now sacrificing his "friend" for HIS ineptness (since he cut on Koko's duties and now Koko gets fired for doing nothing, lol....priceless).....folks, that's as SPINELESS as it gets....that's exactly the kind of guy you HATE to work with....imagine this man standing in front of 53 grown men and talking about TEAM, CORE VALUES, FUNDAMENTALS and WORKING HARD....yeah, I sure would believe what this guy SAYS after seeing what he actually DOES
This guy demands respect, yet (or because) doesn't know how to gain respect...he believes in "bootlicking"...he did it all his "career"...now that he's on top....he wants his stinky boots to get licked.....that's his "philosophy" in a nutshell...what? that has nothing to do with running a NFL-org the right way? You betcha....that's why he and his "process of subordination" will be gone in 2 months
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I played golf yesterday. It was 75 degrees. 
(Hope that made you stop and take a breath, Tulsa, hehe)
Well since I'm in Tulsa and I believe I read that you're somewhere in Texas, we mostly share the same weather patterns and it's been a big lately. If you're in north Texas we might get together sometime for a round, I could use a few extra coins in my pocket.
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What is gained by firing Mangini? Who's to say that Lerner really doesn't believe in Mangini? All we really know is that Lerner didn't believe in Kok, which doesn't have anything to do with Mangini.
The elimination of thought from any potential GM candidate that he'll be stuck with EM if he ventures into the role. On the surface I consider that valuable.
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Lerner fired Kok which is a SEPARATE situation than Mangini.
Just because Lerner can't say he doesn't believe in Mangini doesn't mean he really doesn't believe in him. (er....yeah *L*)
Agreed it was separate but Lerner can say he doesn't believe in EM with a simple, "you're fired". Then Lerner would be in lock step with the majority of the people paying him, the fans.
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Now, who's to say Ryan is ready to be an interim coach? I've seen it many times on this board that he should be named acting coach. But his defense hasn't been very good, and he's made mistakes as well. Frankly, I don't see him or his brother as ever being good head coaches. In today's NFL, they are too much of a pair of loose cannons. However, that's my opinion separate from this discussion. There isn't any justifiable reason to say Ryan is a better HC than Mangini. And we have to remember that just because Mangini is the "common denominator" the buck stops at Lerner, and Lerner chose Kok.
I didn't say or suggest that Ryan is ready or better, this season is already lost, who cares if he is or not. He does give the appearance of being more suited to the position than any other coach I've seen that's currently employed by Lerner. We just need someone to fill the role irregardless of current statue or talent. The point I'm making is we need to free the next GM of the worries of having to either live with this moron or fire him.
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Really, firing Mangini right now doesn't make for a better situation going into the offseason. It actually makes it worse because it might suggest Lerner is willing to fire someone just a handful of games into something without just cause (pun intended ). When a new President or GM comes in they already will know they can fire Mangini if they wish, so doing it now doesn't change that situation at all.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I think you prepare the road for your transition to your new leader(s) a smoothly as possible and no one really likes to fire people, at least decent folks don't.
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People are mad. So am I. I'm mad at Lerner for screwing this thing up time after time. I'm mad at Opie for picking the wrong players and being an all-around idiot. I'm mad at Kok for being a wussy. I'm mad at Mangini for screwin' up the QB situation at the beginning of the year. But being mad doesn't cloud my logic, and that logic says firing Mangini does nothing for us right now.
I'm not those people, I'm now indifferent to the situation. The season is lost; wasting time being mad cures nothing.
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People were predisposed to dislike Mangini. So anything he did wrong was just lighting the fuse on a powder-keg that was ready to be blown. When James Davis went down and word leaked out it was illegal, fans had already come to the conclusion that it was Mangini's fault.
Some people sure, again not me. I was actually predisposed to support the guy and felt like he might succeed, I was actually one of those morons that allowed myself to have hope. Silly me.
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So people are ready to fire him because of this mess. I say doing it at this point is just too early and a result of people being mad, feeding off of their predispositions towards Mangini.
Being patient with this is the best policy. If Lerner brings in a guy to run things, Mangini won't stand a chance and people will be happy, but firing him now and naming Ryan the interim coach doesn't do anything for us. In fact, history strongly points out that interim coaches do nothing for teams. It's better to evaluate Mangini than it is to just fire him.
I however feel firing him now opens up opportunities now for our future. I would estimate there will be about 8 HC positions and a few less GM positions at the end of the year, we will be in competition with other teams and with the grand exception of the Raiders there will be other opportunities that are more appealing to both candidate types. Why not become a front runner and see if you can snag someone before other opportunities present themselves? We need some kind of an edge to get a quality applicant, going head to head against other teams is not going to bode well for us.
#GMSTRONG
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Too many people like to point at others and make sure they are aware that it's "just opinon." You do it all the time, Otto.
No, actually I do it very rarely. You just notice it because I do it mostly with you. And I wouldn't do it at all if you'd lose the condescending attitude that is displayed in the majority of your posts.
I'm not being insulting. If I was, you'd know it. I'm just stating MY opinion.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Kokinis should have gone to Randy, end of story.
I am thinking after all that I am reading, that it appears that Kokinis either:
A.) Has no leadership abilities, hence, unfit for the position
B.) Has no backbone to assert himself (There HAS to be a rule that SOMEONE'S name has to sign off on all these moves. Not trade by committee, but the buck stops where?)
If Mangini isn't let go at the end of this season . . . then Randy has no business running this team.
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Sorry Mangini haters, you simply refuse to put up a logical arguement.
It is REALLY simple(as said earlier): Koko lost and Lerner picked Mangini's rebuilding plan. It would be like Pioli acting against Belicheck in 2000 that he didn't like his plan and acting like Koko. Koko is at fault because he didn't act like the team player he should of and got canned. Maybe you know, try and play by the franchise's goals. It wouldn't be that hard. Lerner is at fault for not dealing with Koko earlier, I have a feeling it destablized things quite badly.
Koko basically made Mangini GM by default. I can't whine at his FA's because they are what they are. Aging vets that are here to teach the youngsters how to play this defense. Sorry, but that is true. This team was never going to be a winner and that is why they were picked over primies who get overpaid for a loser. It is hardly new, alot of rebuilding plans start with that kind of mentallity. Saying Mangini "out thought" himself on a draft, that isn't even through yet, is embarrasing. Simple put, low quality of posting.
Poor posting isn't necessary people. Grow up and learn some management training. Most of you sound like 9.00hr stockboys.
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True
Kokinis should have had it out with Mangini over the player selection. You could tell that something was awry when all the Jets began to populate the roster.
Lerner should have had it out with Mangini over his role with Kokinis. I bet it was a lovely conversation about... so you made all these roster moves without Kokinis?
I home Mangini has a good 8 week run, and is fired the day after the season ends.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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True
Kokinis should have had it out with Mangini over the player selection. You could tell that something was awry when all the Jets began to populate the roster.
Lerner should have had it out with Mangini over his role with Kokinis. I bet it was a lovely conversation about... so you made all these roster moves without Kokinis?
I home Mangini has a good 8 week run, and is fired the day after the season ends.
I hope you find a new team. You still aren't getting it. Lerner did have it out........with Koko and he wouldn't go by the organizations plan.
Ex-Jets? Who cares. So typical to a new regime, it isn't even worth talking about. Sadly, you delude yourself.
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Post deleted by Referee 3
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I don't feel sorry for Kokinis at all. I can't stand Mangini either, but to be in a leadership role, you must not be afraid of confrontation, especially if you're right. I'm a boss, and if I see someone hurting the business, or someone out of line, you better be assured, I'll let that person know. I wouldn't care if I didn't have support from the organization as Kok seemed to think. I rather get fired, but I'll go down in flames before I act like Kok did.
Bottom line Kok will never be a GM in this league again. He doesn't have what it takes personality wise.
You are correct. Friendship or not, Kok was the general MANAGER. A management position. It requires leadership and making decisions. He didn't have the kahunas to do it, therefore he was incompetent in his role as GM. If he felt he was being hampered in performing his role by the head coach, he should have done something to address it. He was getting paid to be the general manager and couldn't/wouldn't cut the mustard.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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j/c
TO: all posters who want Mangini gone mid-season, with Ryan replacing him:
It may be better for the team in the long run to actually keep Mangini for the remainder of the year.
To my untrained eye, it seems that our D is playing hard for a coach whom they like and respect. A team that holds an opponent out of the endzone on 4 successive tries from inside the 5 isn't laying down, folks... that tells me this DC is doing something right. Our scores have been blowouts, true- but almost all the opponents' points are coming in the last 1/3 of the game... when the D is simply too gassed to perform any more. Up 'til then, they've been reasonably competitive, even with this shallow talent pool. I'm too lazy to look up the stat, but didn't these guys hold A Peterson to something like 43 yeards in the first half? A coach who can get that kind of performance from our talent-starved bunch is someone worth keeping.
I'm inclined to want to see him on the sidelines again next year.
And he stands a much better chance of retaining his job as DC if Mangini becomes the sacrificial lamb in the new Prez/GM's stew pot after the year is out. A productive showing from the D could allow Ryan to keep his job even if Mangini loses his. His odds for survival go down drastically if he's the HC at the end of a dismal year.
"Interim" HC's have about the highest job mortality rate of any FO personnel. Ask yourself- when was the last time an interim HC was hired on as true HC the following year? How many of them are even working for the same team in ANY capacity the following year?
Firing Mangini in mid-season could potentially cost us Ryan, as well. I for one would rather not risk paying that price just to see one guy gone.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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I don't feel sorry for Kokinis at all. I can't stand Mangini either, but to be in a leadership role, you must not be afraid of confrontation, especially if you're right. I'm a boss, and if I see someone hurting the business, or someone out of line, you better be assured, I'll let that person know. I wouldn't care if I didn't have support from the organization as Kok seemed to think. I rather get fired, but I'll go down in flames before I act like Kok did.
Bottom line Kok will never be a GM in this league again. He doesn't have what it takes personality wise.
You are correct. Friendship or not, Kok was the general MANAGER. A management position. It requires leadership and making decisions. He didn't have the kahunas to do it, therefore he was incompetent in his role as GM. If he felt he was being hampered in performing his role by the head coach, he should have done something to address it. He was getting paid to be the general manager and couldn't/wouldn't cut the mustard.
Good for Kok he did the right thing in a tough spot. When I meet St Peter at the pearly gates I'd much rather tell him about how I stood by a friend in a difficult situation and sacrificed my professional earnings potential than tell him how I fought my friend and won power.
Which choice really takes kahunes?
The moral of the story is never work with friends or relatives.
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MOE...
interesting point, but...
when you're hired into a position, do you not see it as a commitment to do the very best you can for your employer? i would counter that it was Kokinis' moral obligation to confront Mangini and bring the situation before Lerner, as soon as problems arose. there's a difference between sticking up for a friend who has been wrongly accused of professional misdeeds (as i think you were suggesting), and confronting a problem that develops involving a friend. a delicate issue for sure, but i see no reason that Kokinis could not have maintained his commitment to both Lerner and Mangini...
Browns fans are born with it...
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ALL...
as for Mangini, i'm pretty skeptical...of this fanbase's witchhunt aimed at the guy. sure, he's an ass...but lots of good HC's are. some will say he hasn't earned the right to act as he does...i say BS. he is who he is, and although i'd prefer he had more political savvy, i'm not gonna hang him for it.
as i've read all these posts in the last few months, it appears that the sources of dislike are:
1. we aren't good...well, NSS (figure THAT one out). as YTOWN pointed out well in another thread, this team was going to be bad, no matter the coach. the ROSTER has dictated our 1-7 start.
2. EM has not handled the QB situation well. (and i'm setting aside the folks that were pissed b/c 'their' guy wasn't given a fair shot). preseason, i agree. since then, i'm not sure. Quinn was not only bad in the 1st 3 games, he played like a pansy...seriously. you won't hear me spout internet bravado like that a lot, but a HC cannot continue to start a QB that plays scared...which is why we heard the rumblings of unhappy players, IMO, and the reason EM had to bench Quinn, especially given the uninspiring pre-season competition results. after some time on the bench, i expected Quinn to be re-inserted to start a week or 2 ago, so it will be interesting to see what happens for the next game.
3. the media clearly has it out for him, and thus EM has given them another chance to pile on our team. too many people are influenced by this, although ask anyone point blank, and they'll say "not me".
4. FA and draftee production...see point#2. rookies could not turn this team around, so pointing out that they didn't is silly. same for FA/trade Jetvets. short of maybe Elam and Stuckey, who EM may have long-term plans for, they were brought in to change culture and train the newbies, and if you cannot accept that, then we've nothing to discuss.
what i HAVEN'T seen from Mangini during the witch-hunt (which our fanbase has become oh-so-good at), are 'deal-breaker' type of decisions. he is doing what he said he'd do. other than the QB competition, which hurt the offense. we'll see what EM does about the QB and Daboll after the season. EM has not shown terrible in-game decisions, which was my biggest problem with RAC. i liked him, but clock management was awful, adjustments were lacking, and you could guarantee every challenged/unchallenged play was going the other way. EM has not had clock or challenge issues that i've seen. adjustments have not been good, but it's a bit hard to adjust when you cannot complete A pass or let your defense rest at all.
bottom line for me is this...we've been rebuilding since January, and only now have many people finaaly accepted it. now they are pissed. well, who's fault is that, really? Lerner is on the hook for not hiring the right people up til now, but if he indeed cleans house again before giving EM a chance, i'll be 100% convinced that Lerner is a fan-influenced, rudderless owner, which the Savage/RAC firing suggested to me...
Browns fans are born with it...
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I don't feel sorry for Kokinis at all. I can't stand Mangini either, but to be in a leadership role, you must not be afraid of confrontation, especially if you're right. I'm a boss, and if I see someone hurting the business, or someone out of line, you better be assured, I'll let that person know. I wouldn't care if I didn't have support from the organization as Kok seemed to think. I rather get fired, but I'll go down in flames before I act like Kok did.
Bottom line Kok will never be a GM in this league again. He doesn't have what it takes personality wise.
You are correct. Friendship or not, Kok was the general MANAGER. A management position. It requires leadership and making decisions. He didn't have the kahunas to do it, therefore he was incompetent in his role as GM. If he felt he was being hampered in performing his role by the head coach, he should have done something to address it. He was getting paid to be the general manager and couldn't/wouldn't cut the mustard.
Good for Kok he did the right thing in a tough spot. When I meet St Peter at the pearly gates I'd much rather tell him about how I stood by a friend in a difficult situation and sacrificed my professional earnings potential than tell him how I fought my friend and won power.
Which choice really takes kahunes?
The moral of the story is never work with friends or relatives.
What "right" thing did he do? Giving up on his contracted responsibilities wasn't righteous, noble or anything else but exactly that....especially while continuing to collect a paycheck. Given the fact that he didn't even know about the BE trade until he saw it on ESPN should tell you something about this "friendship".
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Post deleted by Referee 3
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
ALL...
bottom line for me is this...we've been rebuilding since January, and only now have many people finaaly accepted it. now they are pissed. well, who's fault is that, really? Lerner is on the hook for not hiring the right people up til now, but if he indeed cleans house again before giving EM a chance, i'll be 100% convinced that Lerner is a fan-influenced, rudderless owner, which the Savage/RAC firing suggested to me...
I agree and really dont understand what people thought was going to happen.
Sure I got a little over the top thinking that our team would prosper in the first year. The problem was that to many players were still in the RC country club mind set and Mangini showed them the door.
Parcells did the same in Miami when he got their letting everyone know that He was indeed in charge so its his way or the highway.
People keep pointing out our horrid record of 1-7 yet somehow forget that almost every major publication and people I had talked to figured the Browns to win between 3-7 games this year which looking over the schedule they are on track to do. They can still win against the Raiders Chiefs and Lions which would give them 4 victorys.
I in the beginning of the season thought we had a good chance to beat Denver Cincinnati and Chicago as well for reasons that are my own but those teams are much better then I had predicted they would be, that is my fault not the coaches.
So I feel that firing Mangini now wouldnt change a thing except to have some people say told you so when we win those games that most people had written up as victorys anyway with Mangini here. JMHO of course.
On a side note at the start of the season WKNR took the top 5 or 6 publications and added up the predicted victorys for the Browns and the avg was 3.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Hall of Famer
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Kokinis should have had it out with Mangini over the player selection
Something hgappened from the time Kokopuffs was powerplayed up until the time RL said he wanted to have his phone records checked and that he wanted to see him..did Kokopuffs do something to spite Mangini like tip off other agents not to come here or something like that???
We may never know but if he felt like he the person who was supposed to work with him overpowered him did he retaliate in some way behind the scenes?
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dna
1. fwiw, Mangini is 0fer in challenges...showed the stat in the last game I remember
2. See YTowns thread....he's responsible for the downgrade (which was hard to accomplish) in performance
3. deal breakers? you want deal breakers? His whole career has been deal breakers....snitching on his mentor, "whoever I pick is my QB", Kokinis-saga....isn't that deal breakers enough for less than 1 year? lol
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I think we all know what's going to happened.
Lerner will hire a "football guy" to run things. This guy will either have the Parcells role or will be the GM. He will have free reign to either hire the GM (if he's not the GM) or fire Mangini/keep Mangini or hire a new coach.
No one is coming here if they can't pick their own head coach.
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And I wouldn't do it at all if you'd lose the condescending attitude that is displayed
Now THAT'S some of the most hypocritical BS I've ever read from you 
That statement coming from the man who prides himself on as much insulting quips as football.
Blather on, Angry, blather on  It's entertaining. It's drivel, but it's entertaining.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Angry? Hardly. I'm just amused by your attempts to make yourself look good while backhandedly making others look bad. It's an art and you're very good at it. But anger......nope.....sorry.....it's a wasted emotion on a message board. So please, go back to enlightening all of us about football. I haven't had this much fun since that noted football scholar coachb was here......... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Legend
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Legend
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But then I realized this team needs all the fans it can get. Even pompous horse's patoots like you......
Golly, I got banned a few weeks ago for calling someone pompous. I didn't even add the last part you did.
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That's because you were wrong......
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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he could have sued or threatened to sue for breach of contract....between the PR nightmare, the $$$ involved, and the fact that maybe Lerner wasn't aware of all the gritty details....maybe he just would have become the GM that he wanted...
This is what I keep coming back to. If Kokinis had it in his contract that he had final say over the roster, and Mangini basically took that from him, the question is why would Kokinis allow it to happen? Is he that soft, or was he doing some shady things that might become public if he makes noise? While we may never know the whole truth, if this thing goes to court rather than a settlement, enough will come out to allow us to fairly accurately connect the dots. That being said, I'll be shocked if a settlement of some type isn't reached before this ever sees a court room.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Practice Squad
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I find this whole front office blowup to be such a sickening thing. Is anybody else just getting completely tired of this? I think I would be a lot happier if the team just stunk and there wasn't all this media frenzy and speculation about Mangini, the GM, the owner, and everything else. It makes watching this team even worse.
I think if they could give us some HOPE or at least a sense of direction rather than all this confusion and functional problems, it would be a lot easier to like the Cleveland Browns right now..
blah.
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Legend
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Legend
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There is a sense of direction.
Down.
As in the pits of hell.
#GMSTRONG
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Behind the Browns debacle: Kokinis
lost power struggle with Mangini
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