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If anybody is worth it without knowing, this kid is for sure.
I'll tell you something else, kid has his shoulders on straight. Intelligent, well spoken. I think he's going first overall. There's just not a QB that's worth it, imho.
Heard him on Rome today...sounded like Joe Thomas.
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I'm just beating around the bush here. Here's the big question.... As good as Suh is, will he be effective as a 3-4 DE? Some players are able to convert and still be great (Rogers), others cannot (Corey Williams). Are we willing to risk a high number 1 that Suh can adjust to a new system?
It won't be a problem..That said, Suh has the tools necessary to translate very well in the 34, at least in my opinion. His biggest assets are his technique and strength.
He can stack and shed blockers with ease. He uses his hands very well to control offensive linemen. He played in a predominant read and react scheme this year under Pelini.
His strength..well he'll have better linemen to go against but he'll only get better.
I do not only think he can translate to a 3-4 DE, he can probably play LB if necessary,....
As poorly as the season has gone, I'm now hoping for that "determining" loss that guarantees we get the first pick. Hope it's not tonite, though. 
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Can I get that over with yet?
Ill advised move. McCoy was much better last year, but Suh (this year) is the best DT I've ever watched.
That may be true, but four years ago you were peddlin' down the driveway in your big-wheel, so................... 
Kiddin' aside, Suh reminds me of a guy you'll only recognize from your football history books: Ray Childress.
Skill position players tend to go earlier, but if we had the #1 pick and took him, I'd just nod my head and smile. He looks that freakin' good. He'd fit outside in the 34 or inside in the 4-3.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Skill position players tend to go earlier
And only skill position players tend to be Heisman finalists. Suh is a one of a kind player, IMO.
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Skill position players tend to go earlier
most other posters I would have to correct and mention that LTs and DEs are among the most common among the top of the draft (along with QB).
but, I'll assume that you consider top-flight LTs and DEs to be skill-position players, so this is to remind others.
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Let's say we get lucky tonight and beat the steelers... Then, we beat a bad kc and Oakland. Last week of the season we have the jags who were probably just eliminated from the playoffs the previous week and don't want to play in cold Cleveland in January. Suddenly, we're 5-11 and picking 9th. What do we do then? Rolando mcclain? Dez bryant? Taylor mays? Cj spiller? Try to trade up? Try to trade back?
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Interesting observation, since I do consider a left tackle to be a skill-position.
Now to be fair, I haven't really considered DE's to be that. I'd have to go back through the history of the draft to see how many non-skill position players have been taken in the top couple of picks when compared to skill position players. It'd be possible that my perception could be off in that regard.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Interesting observation, since I do consider a left tackle to be a skill-position.
Now to be fair, I haven't really considered DE's to be that. I'd have to go back through the history of the draft to see how many non-skill position players have been taken in the top couple of picks when compared to skill position players. It'd be possible that my perception could be off in that regard.
Recently Mario Williams, Julius Peppers were both #1's overall IIRC.
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Peppers was #2, but good call on him.
Also, if you want to include offensive line in this *and I know, Toad, you think LT is skill position* , we have our own Joe Thomas, Jake Long, Robert Gallery, and even if you want to start at the beginning of the decade, Courtney Brown and the Big Penny were both top 3 draft picks. Also, I think Glenn Dorsey and Chris Long are also a top three pick.
It seems like recently the trend has been to pick a lineman and build the trenches with a lot of hit and miss results.
you had a good run Hank.
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Let's say we get lucky tonight and beat the steelers... Then, we beat a bad kc and Oakland. Last week of the season we have the jags who were probably just eliminated from the playoffs the previous week and don't want to play in cold Cleveland in January. Suddenly, we're 5-11 and picking 9th. What do we do then? Rolando mcclain? Dez bryant? Taylor mays? Cj spiller? Try to trade up? Try to trade back?
I would choose between joe haden, terrence cody and jerry hughes.
The difference between Jesus and religion
Religion mocks you for having dirty feet
Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
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Generally top of the draft (top 5) is one of the following...call them what you want
QB
LT
DE
DT
WR
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Let's say we get lucky tonight and beat the steelers... Then, we beat a bad kc and Oakland. Last week of the season we have the jags who were probably just eliminated from the playoffs the previous week and don't want to play in cold Cleveland in January. Suddenly, we're 5-11 and picking 9th. What do we do then? Rolando mcclain? Dez bryant? Taylor mays? Cj spiller? Try to trade up? Try to trade back?
I'll play along...in order of my preferences...
(1) Dez Bryant
(2) Joe Haden
(3) Rolando McClain
(4) Trent Williams
(5) Derrick Morgan
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Honestly I would rather beat the Steelers and get Berry or Locker than lose to the steelers again and get Suh.
Go Browns!!
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Oh yeah I shouldn't have left off Haden. Probably too high for mays. From most of the mocks I've seen recently, Cody and Hughes could be had top of the second. Possibilty g McCoy is available though I see too much of the dt bust potential in him. I could see the guy from Georgia tech there if we go OLB, or maybe that wildcard Carlos dunlap. Anyways thanks for the thoughts, jester.
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Honestly I would rather beat the Steelers and get Berry or Locker than lose to the steelers again and get Suh.
if we beat the steelers and still got berry that would be AWESOME!
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Honestly I would rather beat the Steelers and get Berry or Locker than lose to the steelers again and get Suh.
Can't say I'd want the same.
Now if I could beat them AND get Suh.................
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Wojo, I like your list... except Trent Williams! Too many penalties! Plus, I think he doesn't have as much value on the right side as he does on the left, and I think we're set over there. Other than that, though, I'd probably have the same list as you.
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j/c
Here is the top of my board:
1. Ndamukong Suh
2. Eric Berry
3. Rolando McClain
4. Gerald McCoy
5. Dez Bryant
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Honestly I would rather beat the Steelers and get Berry or Locker than lose to the steelers again and get Suh.
Can't say I'd want the same.
Now if I could beat them AND get Suh.................
For god's sake Big Ben is undefeated against the Browns. I have a feeling 1 win team will have the top pick. I think tampa Bay will get a win as long as their QB doesn't throw 5 ints per game. St. Louis on the other hand is utter hopeless. The one god news is that because of the investments in Chris Long, and that other DT 1st rounder (I forget his name) and their need for a QB they won't draft Suh. So maybe just maybe if we beat the Steelers and lose out we could get the 2nd pick.
Go Browns!!
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From what i've seen Cody and Hughes have been between 15 and 25 so 9 might be a little high for them but i think hughes is rated lower on the mocks than in the eyes of NFL scouts because he comes from TCU.
I forgot Morgan. If he comes out he would be on that list.
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Religion mocks you for having dirty feet
Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
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We have to hope Tampa Bay wins. We have to pick in front of Tampa Bay to get Suh.
Go Browns!!
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Maybe now the Browns wont have the first pick and save a few million 
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We have to hope Tampa Bay wins. We have to pick in front of Tampa Bay to get Suh.
Rams going QB for sure.
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Well like i said they have spent two first round picks on Chris Long and this other DT I forget..I got it Adam Carricker or something like that out of Nebraska and they need a QB.
As I said if we want Suh we got to pick in front of Tampa Bay
Go Browns!!
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But a cheaper pick in Berry isnt a bad consolation prize.
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Nobody drafted Josh Cribbs.
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But a cheaper pick in Berry isnt a bad consolation prize.
Well it wouldn't be nescessarly cheaper as both would picked in the same spot. If we pick 2 we would take Suh or Berry and most likely pay the same contract. Berry isn't a bad consolation prize.
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Nobody drafted Josh Cribbs.
No idea what this has to do with anything but we get Cribbs is the awesome.
Go Browns!!
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We're picking either #3 or #4 right now as we are in tie breaker with Detroit right now...
assuming everyone loses out
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Interesting observation, since I do consider a left tackle to be a skill-position.
Now to be fair, I haven't really considered DE's to be that. I'd have to go back through the history of the draft to see how many non-skill position players have been taken in the top couple of picks when compared to skill position players. It'd be possible that my perception could be off in that regard.
I'm in a good mood today (for obvious reasons), so I'll do the research. Let's limit this to top3 in the past 10 years so it doesn't take me all day.
And I consider pass-rushing DE's to be skill position....I would not classify Tyson Jackson a skill DE for instance because he is more of a run-stuffer and doesn't have good pass-rushing skills. That's too hard to differentiate here though and he is the ONLY DE drafted that high lately without the pass rushing skillset.
2009
1 Matt Stafford, QB
2. Jason Smith, OT
3. Tyson Jackson, DE
2008
1. Jake Long, OT
2. Chris Long, DE
3. Matt Ryan, QB
2007
1. JaMarcus Russel, QB
2. Calvin Johnson, WR
3. Joe Thomas, OT
2006
1. Mario Williams, DE
2. Reggie Bush, RB
3. Vince Young, QB
2005
1. Alex Smith, QB
2. Ronnie Brown, RB
3. Braylon Edwards, WR
2004
1. Eli Manning, QB
2. Robert Gallery, OT (at the time...though now OG)
3. Larry Fitzgerald, WR
2003
1. Carson Palmer, QB
2. Charles Rogers, WR
3. Andre Johnson, WR
2002
1. David Carr, QB
2. Julius Peppers, DE
3. Joey Harrington, QB
2001
1. Michael Vick, QB
2. Leonard Davis, OT
3. Gerard Warren, DT
2000
1. Courtney Brown, DE
2. LaVar Arrington, LB
3. Chris Samuels, OT
Total Counts (out of 30 overall picks):
QB = 10 (only 1 draft without one….2000)
OT = 6
WR = 5
DE = 5
RB = 2
LB = 1
DT = 1 (yes, the one, the only, Gerard 'Big Money' Warren)
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Now that we're likely out of the Suh sweepstakes...
1) E. Berry S Tennessee
2) B. Graham OLB Michigan
3a) G. Selvie OLB South Florida
3b) S. Young RT Notre Dame
4) V. Ducasse RG UMass
5a) Myron Rolle S Fla State / K. Coleman S Ohio State
5b) Javier Arenas CB/KR Alabama
5c) Brandon Banks WR Kansas State
6) Crap
7) Shoot
maybe +1 for LL... probably a 7th.
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I love the Berry pick. I was on the Berry bandwagon as far back as last season. I did get distracted by the shiny toy called Suh. But like you said it looks like he isn't an option.
I like Ducasse a lot. He is a real mauler who I hear is athletic enough to play RT if we would choose to try him there. I think he will be gone by our 4th round pick. He is going to open some eyes during pre-draft workouts and be a fast riser. I've seen speculation that he could go as early as rnd 2. If the draft was today though I could see him falling to the 4th. The other o-lineman I like a lot is Mike Johnson from Alabama. He is an OG who could also play RT. He is probably a 3rd round pick possibly 4th depending on how many underclassmen come out. I would love to get both of these guys. Man would that be a young and powerful right side of the o-line.
I haven't decided what my top choice is at the top of round 2 is but I like the possibility of Grahem. Right now it looks like there will be a lot of talent to choose from in this spot.
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Religion mocks you for having dirty feet
Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
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We're picking either #3 or #4 right now as we are in tie breaker with Detroit right now...
assuming everyone loses out
If Detroit and Cleveland lose out, Detroit would pick before Cleveland because the teams Cleveland beat have a better record then the teams Detroit beat.
Cleveland beat Buffaloe and Pittsburgh (then KC ) and Detroit beat Washington and Cleveland.
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If Detroit and Cleveland lose out, Detroit would pick before Cleveland because the teams Cleveland beat have a better record then the teams Detroit beat.
Cleveland beat Buffaloe and Pittsburgh (then KC ) and Detroit beat Washington and Cleveland.
At this point in time, Detroit has a 'tougher' strength of schedule than we do, so they would pick after us, we would be 3rd, Detroit 4th. If both teams lose out, and TB & Stl do the same, I didn't run thru the entire schedule to calculate wins/losses for all the other teams, but it probably stays the same.
Currently our opponents have a (.519) winning percentage, while detroits opponents have a (.534). Seems like a lot to overcome; considering all the divisional games likely with opponents schedules.
Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital.
Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
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My bad. I thought it was teams beat winning %. Not the entire seasons opponents winning %
Who does Detroit have left? The Browns have 2 teams with losing records or did you already take the remaining teams into account with your figures?
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Cleveland finishes with KC (3-10), Oak (4-9), Jax (7-6)
Detroit has Ari (8-4), SF (5-7), Chi (5-8) remaining.
The difference between Jesus and religion
Religion mocks you for having dirty feet
Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
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I took into account all our opponents; past and upcoming (same with det). So as those opponents play (past and future) those %'s will change, but at this late date usually not a lot. I won't go so far as to say it cannot happen, but think its very unlikely. (Didn't run those numbers as I would have to calculate almost the entire schedule each week).
Maybe next week I will run it depending on the results of the four teams (det, tb, stl, and us).
Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital.
Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
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I dont think it will matter. The browns will have more wins than Detroit by season end. They wont win a game and the Browns have a chance to win out.
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i think the Browns get atleast 4 wins..
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But a cheaper pick in Berry isnt a bad consolation prize.
Well it wouldn't be nescessarly cheaper as both would picked in the same spot. If we pick 2 we would take Suh or Berry and most likely pay the same contract. Berry isn't a bad consolation prize.
First , let me preface in saying that if Mangini allows Rob Ryan to be himself ; instead of the tamed out Manpolen version of being a Ryan; then Eric Berry and Rolando McClain should be head and shoulder above anyone else if Suh can't be had..
Rob Ryan is a blitz master. . We've seen it momentarily earlier in the season before often being reined in.
Unfortunately, it took the fear of job security to finally alow this mastermind to release the hounds. And we saw against the Stoolers how many different blitzes he would show, and young corners just allowed to play out on the island..
What this team still lacks and has been missing all season, is that safety blanket playing the deep part of the field.
Eric Berry is the type of talent that could take this defense to another level because he could allow this defense to be much more aggressive, while covering up mistakes. Pool, Poteat, Elam, whomever...they can't do that.
Something that Eo brought up and I totally agreed with was a simple shift of positions by David Bowens.
He has given that power at the Mack position that has lacked in this defense since it was turned into a 34. He is a presence in the middle. He's big, physical, a leader, rushes the passer, and fills lanes like Andra Davis or Eric Barton simply could never do.
That is the type of compliment that is needed to the D'Qwell's, Maiava's, etc. playing the Buck position. The one downfall is that Bowens will be 34 yeards old going into next year. Love to keep him around for another year, but if you can replace him with a guy like Rolando McClain or the Gator kid Spikes is who is eerily similar in physical size but a better athlete; then you are cooking at that position and in this defense.
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j/c
fyi - I just heard that Locker is planning on returning to washington for his senior year.
The difference between Jesus and religion
Religion mocks you for having dirty feet
Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Mid-Season Mock Drafts (Cont'd)
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