DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Savage, Lerner address Romeo, Tressel, Cowher, Frye, O-line

[color:"orange"] Lerner, Savage still feel team success is near
Wednesday, November 22, 2006
By Steve Doerschuk repository sports wRITER

BEREA Hoping Browns fans still are plugged in despite losing again to Pittsburgh, Browns owner Randy Lerner and General Manager Phil Savage argued their cases from the team's AM radio flagship.

Lerner said losing a late 20-10 lead was painful, but in a much different way than last December's 41-0 Steeler fiasco.

"Being up 10 points deep into the fourth quarter, I mean, we're getting somewhere," Lerner in an interview with WTAM's Mike Trivisonno.

Lerner indicated he hasn't lost the will to steer the team he inherited after his father's death on Oct. 23, 2002.

"It's an amazing experience to try and guide this team ... I've got a lot left in me,'' he said. "I think we're starting to build it.

"The fundamental things are starting to take shape.

"But it's very hard to make that case. You've got to win."

Lerner hinted he will stick with Head Coach Romeo Crennel and Savage, a tandem that has produced a 9-17 record since taking over in 2005.

"All we can do is continue to put the organization in the right position and finally stick with it, finally create some continuity ...," Lerner said.

"The only chance we have is to stay with it, build on the core group of players we brought in, continue to try ... to bring in talent to fill holes, and ... maybe we'll wake up and be where we need to go."

Savage gave his first sweeping public interview since an Oct. 27 news conference. The team was 1-5 then, shortly after Jeff Davidson replaced Mo Carthon as offensive coordinator. It since has gone 2-2.

Savage said the Pittsburgh game indicated both progress made and progress needed. On one hand: "We kicked 'em around for three quarters."

On the other: "Our success is in two- and three-quarter segments. It hasn't been for four quarters yet."

Why? "Some of it's a talent situation," Savage said. "Some of it is coaching situations. Some it is decisions we made in personnel.

"Are we there yet? No. Are we getting there? We believe we will.

"The hardest thing to get a handle on is the psychological-mental aspect. Even in our own stadium, because of all the negative things that have happened there since '99, as soon as things begin to slip away, you can sense that.

"I think the players know that they're this close to being able to break through that seal that is on our head right now."

The Browns must go 4-2 to beat last year's 6-10 finish.

"We've got a big offseason ahead," Savage said. "What do we do with our offensive line? How do we resolve this cornerback situation? How do we go forward with the quarterback scenario?"

If he stays healthy, Browns quarterback Charlie Frye will have 10 starts under Davidson.

"The good thing about the last 10 games ... we're getting a better picture of Charlie Frye in terms of going forward," Savage said.

"When I'm at the building and see him downstairs, how much effort and work he puts into the off-field preparation, what he does on the field, some of the licks he's taken this year ... the kid is really tough."

LOOKING AHEAD

Savage gave a quick preview of what might be on his offseason shopping list.

"You'd think we would need to get a young defensive lineman, right?" he said.

"Offensive line ... we have a lot of questions ... there."

It has been four months since center LeCharles Bentley, this year's top free agent, had patellar tendon surgery.

"It's a slow process (with Bentley)," Savage said. "I think we'll have a much better gauge by February."

Savage addressed rumors that Bill Cowher or Jim Tressel might be a Browns head coach at some point.

On Cowher: "You laugh, you chuckle. You're so busy trying to do this job, be it a coach, or a scout or a player, you really don't have time for some of the nonsense that's out there."

On Tressel: "A Jim Tressel, who grew up in Berea ... a Baldwin-Wallace, then to Youngstown ... now at Ohio State .. . It's only logical for people to think that.

"He's pretty content at Ohio State. It's a lot easier to beat Northwestern and Illinois than the Steelers, the Bengals and the Ravens on a weekly basis."

REVIEWING ROMEO

Savage also shared some thoughts on Crennel: "When we hired him ... he came here as really the best candidate for the job. I still feel that way.

"It wasn't exactly a plate full of food here when we arrived. In a lot of ways you kind of had to clear the decks ... start over.

"We've had our share of setbacks, but the thing I like about Romeo the most is he does stay on an even keel.

"Our players have played hard this year.''

http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?Category=17&ID=320691&r=2&subCategoryID=
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Hopefully this will put to rest a lot of the rumors we've heard. I just don't think making changes in our coaching staff would be in this team's best interest right now.

It's good to see Savage sees our needs at DL and OL especially.

[color:"white"]Sure, move it when I'm trying to reply to it <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

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I hate to quote the obvious, but I'm glad that Savage is stating it.

Saying we have "questions" on the line is a nice way of saying they suck. Sure, Bentley is included in that, but he's A question, which is only a part of "a lot" of questions.

Bye Coleman, and hopefully, Druzzi goes to the bench. [/color]

VERY interesting read, attack - thanks!

One nice thing about Savage is that he talks so much off the top of his head, it seems possible to get some type of guage of his priorities when he talks.

He certainly didn't do much to promote Charlie, IMO. You wonder where that's heading. I think we have bigger needs - but BPA can make things tough come draft-time.

The comment:
potentially says a lot - unless he's "leading" already. OL, CB, QB, and DL were the focus of his comments. Pretty obvious stuff, but he didn't mention RB, which was interesting.

He mentioned OL about 900 times, so I think that should make a lot of people happy around here. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Also liked (in reference to Tressel):
I think Tressel could probably handle it, but that statement kinda put things in context, eh?

Thank you Randy for having the vision. Thank the lord this is out in the open.

I think it's more questions than just quality..
And Bentley is at the heart of it because they don't and won't know till February.
It affects what they do with Fraley/Freidman .I have a felling they'll resign Fraley.
The other questions are Dorsey/Butler/Tucker..and possibly Shaffer.
Tucker ..is it possible they may even think of moving him inside?
Coleman is gone..what about Druzzi?
Him going to the bench is a plus..bring in [color:"aqua"] Manuwai[/color] in FA..
Danglet..I actually think Phil is hedging a bit on Frye..he is obviously seeing the same things we all are and is wondering if he can take bigger strides instead of baby steps VS PERHAPS not much more upside in him..

[color:"white"]These sentiments that suggest RB is a desperate need are falacies. Damn glad to see Savage not going there. He understands that there are greater priorities.

It's me, Droughns, and a handful of others against the world *L*

Fix the line and the offense can move forward. I can't begin to understand how anyone can feel that RB is just as big a need as O-line. It's rediculous and shortsighted.

To me, Frye got his props. They weren't golden, but then again, neither has his play been golden.

Crennel isn't on the hot seat. That's crap stirred up by the media and a few posters who don't get it, powered by agenda and alterior motives.

They speak of continuity, which is a good thing, yet cleared out a cancer on Mo.

Yes people, you CAN have continuity while throwing out the trash <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

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Joe Thomas, Whisky--I don't care if Ted Ginn is there at that pick,....

IMHO, BE VERY AFRAID of the underlying message associated with this statement...

I am VERY worried that Bents injury is career ending... I mean, the guys kneecap was shattered up into his thigh for God's sake! GOD I HOPE that we get some good news in Feb.

When it comes to team needs, Phil gets it... I know Verse would strongly disagree with this statement but he CANNOT fix EVERYTHING in ONE full offseason... Does this make me a tadpole for believing Phil?? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Tadpoles turn into TOADS.

Bentley's injury makes me cringe so U know what I think about Baxter HAVING BOTH knees like this? <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

pretty much what you would expet to hear at a mid season address.

its never that easy

Reuben is the slowest starting RB in football.
He lacks a nose for the endzone.
He struggles holding on to the football.
He lacks escapability,

His positives consist of running into people real hard and blitz pickup and his blitz pickup is overrated.

A running back should be a threat whenever he touches the ball. Reuben isnt a threat.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/NFL/RB-RUSHING/2006/regular
the top 50 rushing leaders this year and there is 39 backs that I would rather have starting for the Browns.

What we do at RB in the off-season will be dictated by a few things.
1. Is there a true franchise RB available to us in the off-season
2. Does Savage prefer mixed-backfields over a feature back
3. What we think of Harrison, Vickers and who ever else we have access to in the off-season.

I think its very nearly a consensus statement that Droughns isn't the long term answer as an every-down back.

Its only slightly more debatable if the position is a major problem. I don't think most people think its a priority, but at the least its a position that we need to consider our options at.

Reuben is my idea of a fullback. Line him up back there and let both of them run.

[color:"white"]Yes, yes, heard it all before.

1200 yards with the Donks, 1200 yards with us, he was good enough last year, he's good enough now.

The difference? The line.

We'll see if the team replaces him as the starter. If not, we know the answer.[/color]

Heard that before and its still hogwash. Every running back in Denver puts up good numbers and the only thing he did last year for the Browns was stay healthy. Our rushing TDs was the lowest since the return. Our ypa was also as low as it has been. The first 1000 yard rusher in however many years was pimped to give the fans somehting to be happy about.

Said it earlier and will say it again, there are 39 running backs on that top 50 list that anyone would take over Reuben and that is a serious problem. Jason Wright is a scrub and he was just as effective last week as Reuben has been. That is part of the problem.

[color:"white"]Yup, but the line wasn't good, and has been horrid this year. So Droughns should be penalized for staying healthy behind a poor line. That's the hogwash <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Then there's the fact he can block and catch, play fullback and on special teams.

The garbage about doesn't have a nose for the endzone is directly related to a line that can't block.

Say it all ya want Mourg. Sooner or later, time will run out on Droughns. You'll finally be right then <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Let's see who Savage starts if Droughns is ready to go <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What's gonna be a hoot is when we do get a back to pair with Droughns, there's gonna be a ton of not-knowitalls that will point to that as proof they were right, when Droughns was really only supposed to be a part timer who had a very good year as a feature.

Fix the line and the Droughns "problem" will suddenly dissapear. He did pretty well behind a bad line last year, so it's no surprise that our backs are averaging less than 3.5 yards and our QB is on pace to be sacked a huge amount of times behind this one.

Fix the REAL problem: The line.[/color]

[color:"orange"]I could (and might after I review the game) make the case that Wright was MORE EFFECTIVE last Sunday against the Steelers, than Droughns has been all season.

Droughns only solid performances came against....*drumroll*....The Jets ( <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> ) and the Faiders ( <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> )...not exactly teams you want to hang your hat on when it comes to production from your RB...

IMO, Droughns is the perfect guy to split carries (65/35) with a feature back with all the talents that Droughns doesnt possess. Think Willie Parker(feature back) and Najeh Davenport (RD). If we utilize RD properly over the next few years, limit his touches - play to his strengths, he can be an effective piece to this puzzle.
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I have stated over and over he is not a feature back and he isnt. I dont have to prove anything about it. He is not a feature back. He is a 2nd half punisher for when the #1 guy gets a rest and he can do what he does best, wear down the defense.

You look at the scrub OL and backs we have had since 99 and all had a much higher td ratio than Reuben and every single one of them is out of the league.

You can fix the line and Reuben is going to be exactly what he is right now, a physical pounder # 2 type back.

Fix the line and Green will be a star. Heard that one a few times. Fix the line and Jamal White can be a tremendous back. Fix the line and Suggs will be a probowler. lol

[color:"white"]Think it's any coincidence that the only teams where Droughns has looked like last year are the teams that this pathetic line can actually handle? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Enough with Droughns. Let's truce it so that we don't take beat a good thread with a tired subject. He's God you're not and I win <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Fix the line and we'll be able to get a better feel on Frye, our backs, and Davidson. Fix the D-line and we'll stop the run better. Savage is talking about it. He gets it.[/color]

Well fix the line and Wright is going to go far..lol..
Once more my thought is that Phil will do what he does at certain positions.
He'll look in FA..then probably go second day for a back in the draft.

Back to the OL, We dont have to spend first rounders to build a stud line. Just make the smart picks in the 2-4 area. First round go BPA and I have absolutely no problem with it.

DL well I am a believer in free agency when it comes to the defensive line. Ted was a good pickup even at his age problem is u need 2 of him to get 4 quarters worth of production. I really wanted Grady Jackson or Sam Adams to split time with big ted.

I still think Baba is gonna be a good one. Look out next year folks.

There is always good defensive linemen out there for the picking but OL good luck with that one and bring your wallet.

yep...if you look at our rushing stats over the past few years Reuben ran for less than Green/Suggs in 04. Dont get me wrong I like the guy, but at some point hes gotta be replaced...I think his running style has already started to breakdown his body, and at the very least needs someone to split carries with him next year. JMHO tho

I have mixed feelings about Dline in FA..there are some good DT's..but I want us to get a big one in the draft..and there are several from what I read.
Next season may be a tight one for our cap , considering Baxter/Bentley's injuries and whether they play here again.
We don't want a lot of DEAD MONEY on the books.
Oline..well we know where that stands and I said there's only one OG I see in FA...
We now have to include CB in the needs list and yes another DE/OLB tweener to go behind WM..

quick question.........

its always written that as players age, they lose a step. I mean everyone says it about Tucker and so on.......... everyone has had great seasons in the past.

In your eyes is that something that couldn't happen to RD??

Fights the temptation for a Zing!!!!!!!!! ugg i cant take it. if i had hair i would be pulling it out lol cant resist

if a turtle loses a step does anyone notice. Sorry i just couldnt resist lol.

[color:"white"]Nope. All we really need to go from a pathetic line to a solid one is a couple of guards. That can be done in the first few rounds or in free agency. [/color]

I know our line isnt perfect, but please. They are not the only problem. Toad blames the sacks on the line, and that is just wrong. How many are coverage sacks and then how many are from the play calling for a 3 step drop and release where CF hangs onto the ball.

To say its all the line's fault is just a flimsy argument to make excuses for everyone elses mistakes. They are not perfect, they are not pro-bowlers, but they sure are not responsible for all the bad stats on the team.

Be realistic.
I mean, anyone who watched the game VS the Steelers saw a spark at RB that no one has seen all year. period. Explain it to me, if it wasnt the RB, what was it??

Wright was able to make cuts and hit the hole faster than RD..but last year RD did do that , but he was WEAK as a short yardage back..thats due to several things.
I think RD/Frye/WR's/Oline are a combination that add to the problems.

Only one Dlinemen in FA I see..
[color:"#666666"]Terdell Sands UFA Oakland Raiders
6' 7 335 [/color]

And suddenly the sound of crickets.....

Danielle, what you are suggesting is crazy talk... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"orange"]As I said weeks ago, blaming every problem on the OL is short-sighted and quite frankly absurd...Football is a team game, and no other unit relies so heavily on one another than an Offense.

I lay the blame equally on every unit of the offense, the WRs, QB, OL and RBs, not ONE unit should get a pass here...
Mo was also a problem we eliminated and I think we can all agree that was the right move.

I hate to pile on you Toad, but people take what you say and run with it, because you're very eloquent and make one helluva presentation, but sometimes the stuff you say is off base and it gets people going on things that just simply are not the case.

I respect your opinion on a bunch of stuff and agree with you more than I disagree, but when it comes to Droughns you're missing the boat. And I say this with utmost respect, you probably have forgotten more football than I've ever learned...
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[color:"white"]What, I can't eat lunch without checkin' in with the board first? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The only game I haven't seen now is the majority of the Steelers game. Outside of that, there are 9 other games. In those games, for every time that Frye has held onto the ball leading to a hit or a sack, he's escaped 2.

I just got done watching the Falcons game, and watched as Coleman and Druzzi were kicked around like balsa-wood army men. Fraley couldn't hold his own against Grady Jackson, though when Grady wasn't in the game, Fraley played decently.

Now I wrote up the 1st half and forwarded it to a soon-to-be revealed board member who will balance my views of the game with his own. It'll be interesting to see what he has to say since he's clearly a realist, though our views have differed at times in the past, hehe.

It doesn't matter who we're talking about at running back when it comes to "burst" <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> If the holes are there, the holes are there. If they aren't, they aren't. If our guys are being handled, they are being handled. It doesn't take a back to see it, and 3.5 yards per carry speaks volumes. If Wright is so much better, he'd have had a big game. He didn't.

Now, there's always the chance that they actually did put it together for the Steelers game. Trust me, I'll find out with my own eyes *L* However, if they did manage to put it together, it'll have been the first time all year, and even then, it apparently wasn't for the entire game, as we couldn't do jack in the 2nd half. We averaged 3.5 yards per carry in the game. That's hardly progress to be proud of. Now are they finally gelling? It's very possible. God knows it should have happened by now anyway. Still, I know how Druzzi and Coleman have looked all year, and I know how Fraley was handled during various games and by NT's, Jackson being the latest. Shaffer lacks power, though getting Tucker back helps. The O-line as well as the defensive front 7 are the two big culprits right now. Fix those units and this team is a playoff team.

Sorry Danielle, I know this O-line is your puppy the way Droughns is mine, but anyone who watches these games in slomo will see the same thing I do. These guys are gettin' handled. It's reflected in our running yards, it's reflected in our low-scoring offense, and it's reflected in the pounding that Frye has taken. If he weren't so mobile and ellusive, we'd be nearing the 50 sack mark. That isn't an embelishment. We're near 40 now and Frye has gotten out of nearly a dozen all by himself. That is clearly unnaceptable.

Also, as a side note, the pro-offense and pro-defense factions on the board need to stop point fingers at the other guy, and start point at their own side. BOTH sides have their own crosses to blame. That's why we're 3-7 <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> We can't stop the ball. That starts with the front 7. We can't run the ball or or slam it in inside the 20. That starts with the line.

It isn't rocket science.

I'm going to keep an open mind when I watch the Steelers game. I hope to see improvement, and more against the Bungles this week.

Edit:

By the way Danielle, since he IS your husband, you'll be happy to know I applauded him when he made good plays. I'm not picking on you because you disagree with me. I save that for the people who truly don't have any foundation for their beliefs <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />[/color]

Hmm.. Speaking of finger pointing..

Mine are pointed foursquare at the Guards and Rube. The Guards have seen the end of their shelf life, and Rube's is in slow decline. As they say in retail.. time to rotate the stock.

The Oline is to blame faction vs the RD faction are both wrong.. they both have diminishing skills.

ahh, crap... you just stirred up the anti-Belichick crowd <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Toad

I agree on some points you are making.
As far as Charlie getting out of sacks......... point made, but do you know how many he has gotten himself into? Have you looked into that, or even known which plays were supposed to have coverage for a 3 step drop and pass where there was no pass....... Where he scrambled around instead of throwing the ball away to avoid getting a sack when he runs out of bounds behind the LOS. Have you seen the coaches version of film where he thinks the pocket is collapsing and he runs when he has OPEN men down field. I am not saying it happens all the time, or even the majority of the time. But to say he is the reason we don't have more sacks isn't looking a the whole picture. A cross section, yes, but not the whole picture.

As far as the yards per carry for the Steelers game. I mean, the offense practically didnt even play the 4th quarter. And its not so much the yards per carry that everyone was impressed with. I know you have not seen the game, so I will wait for you to do so.

I was at the game, I had no idea RD was not starting. The first run, I was like wow......... look at RD go, he looks awesome today. Then I realized it wasnt him. I wasn't looking at RD like he wasnt good, or a feature back because I dont know the RB position that well......... I just know there was a difference in speed and agility.

I'm not trying to put RD down or argue "At" you, I'm just saying our running game looked different for a big portion of the game. When you watch the film, tell me what you think. I am really wondering what you're gonna say, either you have to give Wright props... hehe, or the o-line. For you, I don't know which would be harder to do <img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"]You may be surpised to hear that I had Frye at +6 on sacks he got out of versus one's he either ran into or gave away because he didn't throw the ball away. I know it's a rough number without all the games included, but yeah, I've been looking out for that.

As for giving Wright props.........are you kiddin'?! That would ruin my fun <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You don't know me, so your transgressions are forgiven <img src="/images/graemlins/azzangel.gif" alt="" /> ( <img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" /> ) but once you do, you'll find I'm brutally honest, even if it means apologizing or calling my own guys down.[/color]

I guess I'm an equal opportunity offender.

<img src="/images/graemlins/naughtydevil.gif" alt="" />

Droughns' 1200 in Denver was WAY WAY different than his 1200 here.

For one, he was splitting carries with Tatum Bell. Yes, his line helped him out a lot, but so did a lightning back in Bell who delivered knockout punches.

I don't like his case of fumbleitis. I noticed it in Denver and I notice it here.

I'm gonna side with Danielle on this one, but at the same time take the stance that the line could be better and do more to help out our players. But I can't fault the O-line when I see a hole that a quicker back would go through for a 5 or 7 yard gain, when Droughns barely makes it to the line and it's a 2 yard gain. I saw it all day vs. the Falcons. "ooo a hole!" and it's a 2 yard gain because it gets filled so fast.

YES a better line would make a better RB, but a special RB makes an average line look good, and a good line look dominant.