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Thank god the Raiders took Russell. We all know Savage had a hard on for him since he was in high school. Had the Raiders not taken Russell we'd have Jamarcus as our QB and no Joe Thomas. Imagine what could've happened. Thank You Al Davis and your obsession with the vertical passing game!
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toad, you might want to add quinn to your rentable space. Quote:
Sorry, but I've seen enough to know Brady Quinn just isn't a big-league quarterback. That was some of the most atrocious quarterbacking I've ever seen. Did you see Quinn in the final minute of Cleveland's 16-0 loss to the Ravens, trying to throw a pair of garbage-time bombs downfield? He fired the ball five yards out of bounds on successive plays. I kid you not.
I was embarrassed for him, but it was almost downright comical. ESPN's Ron Jaworski and Jon Gruden at least had the nerve to point out the obvious: It's tough to complete a pass if you don't throw it between the white lines.
Whatever Quinn might have been in Cleveland had his career gotten off to a different start in a different situation with the Browns, it doesn't matter now. He's officially a disaster, a bust, whatever you want to label him.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/11/17/belichick/index.html
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ok...didn't know Frye made the team as the emergency QB....
just think....we might have Frye vs. Quinn battle coming up.
first QB to complete a 15 yard pass wins....or last one to throw a pick-6 loses.
#gmstrong
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Practice Squad
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I hope everyone remembers Couch who had less than Quinn does for offense...Johnson and no real RB. We didn't have Cribbs or a decent TE or even a decent Oline. We have destroyed many QBs and we will continue to destroy them until we return to building the team.
Mangini does not know how to build a team and is killing the desire to win. The team is just showing up and will not win again until we replace the lost talent and inspire the team.
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I take that with a grain of salt.
Any QB in this offense wouldn't look like an NFL QB. It's a shame that he's stuck with what he's got- it's causing him to regress, and it doesn't give anyone a fair shot to play well.
He threw short all game. Any time he didn't take a 3 step drop and fire, the right side of the line collapsed and he was sacked fairly quick. Our offense is horrid. Starting with Daboll.
I'm sorry, but the problems on offense are MUCH, MUCH deeper than the QB.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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I am confounded by all of this, it just does not make any sense..
Quinn was viewed as one of the top 5 players coming out, and Gruden scouted him and thought he looked good. His college stats suggest that accuracy was not an issue, and he was under 2 different but good college coaches, including Weis, who was an advocate.
I have not seen Quinn toss the ball down field with any frequency (in the regular season) that would allow an assessment at to his ability to place the ball accurately. What I have seen is play calling that would tend to suggest that he can't. I am not sure if it is a bad OL, (the ND line was viewed as weak as well) or if Quinn is hearing the ghosts of Couch/Carr. One thing that is certain, the lack of a TE or WR's on this team is a major deficiency that cannot be overcome this year.
While I think that part of this debacle falls on Quinn, a bigger part falls onto the playcalling. You simply cannot never toss the ball downfield. The ravens adjusted crowded the line and came after Quinn because they knew nothing would ever go down field.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Toad:
I am not going to defend Quinn. However, there is simply no excuse for the product on the field, the design, and the execution of this so called offensive scheme. Even with the lack of talent and experience you should be able to produce more yards on offense.
Agreed. But since this is a QB thread.........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I am confounded by all of this, it just does not make any sense..
It does make sense, but you just have to really examine all the factors.
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Quinn was viewed as one of the top 5 players coming out
That was the MEDIA doing that, not the scouts. The proof lies in the fact that he fell to when he did, and had we not taken him, he would have fallen even further, and all those scouts tend to get it right more than they get it wrong.
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and Gruden scouted him and thought he looked good.
Considering Gruden can't ever settle on a QB and changes them like Otto changes his Depends, I wouldn't put too much stock in Gruden's QB-assessing abilities. He's wrong like the rest of us.
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His college stats suggest that accuracy was not an issue
That one really comes down to the eye-ball test, because the factors which go into saying he is or isn't accurate in college, and how that does or doesn't equate to the pro's can be micro-dissected a myriad of ways. Having said that, the windows Quinn threw to in college weren't the so-called "NFL throws" which is why he's struggled in the NFL.
Remember, Couch looked accurate coming out too, and we all saw that he wasn't accurate going down the field with "NFL throws."
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he was under 2 different but good college coaches, including Weis, who was an advocate.
What else would Weis say? 
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I have not seen Quinn toss the ball down field with any frequency (in the regular season) that would allow an assessment at to his ability to place the ball accurately. What I have seen is play calling that would tend to suggest that he can't.
I've attempted to point this out numerous times. I'm glad (and not surprised) that you of all people get it. But to be fair, with this line, he isn't going to be afforded the time either, so it's a combination of things.
BUT, the telling factor is that when Anderson was in the game, they were willing to go downfield. When Quinn is in the game, they aren't. So you're right and the bottom line is the same: They don't trust him to go down the field, and say what we want about them as coaches, they see Quinn more than anyone else.
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You simply cannot never toss the ball downfield.
I recall two specific throws "down the field." One was the rollout on the very first throw, where he luckily threw it over the defenders head because it could have been a pick. It was a very ill-advised throw.
The second was on a deep ball down the left hashmark, which was BADLY overthrown.
When Quinn was coming out, I debated with some of my buds on here regarding what Quinn did well and didn't do well. My biggest concern was his inaccuracy with NFL throws.
Nothing I've seen says he has the accuracy to be a good starter in this league.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
I've attempted to point this out numerous times. I'm glad (and not surprised) that you of all people get it. But to be fair, with this line, he isn't going to be afforded the time either, so it's a combination of things.
BUT, the telling factor is that when Anderson was in the game, they were willing to go downfield. When Quinn is in the game, they aren't. So you're right and the bottom line is the same: They don't trust him to go down the field, and say what we want about them as coaches, they see Quinn more than anyone else.
This is a huge pet peeve of mine on the board. In the same breath you state Quinn isn't going to be afforded the time, but with the exact same OL, DA can go downfield.
We need to get something straight here. The OL looks worse with Quinn because the scheme is absolutely terrible. And it's starting to appear more and more like the scheme is a result of what the coaching staff feels about Quinn's abilities.
The right side of the line can use some upgrades ... no doubt about it. But they shouldn't take an unnecessary amount of flack that they don't deserve. The 'Quinn doesn't have the time argument' is overused and overplayed on here ... he doesn't have the time either because of Daboll or more likely himself. Teams have no fear at all of getting beat even 15 yards down the field.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Just watched the game, Brady did what he could do with the plays that were called, and when he did drop back balt. was in his face. a test will happen when he is NOT playing against one of the better defenses in the league. Which in case alot of haters haven't noticed. . .that's all he has played against this year.
Quinn has faced the 6th, 7th and 15th ranked defenses this season.
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The 'Quinn doesn't have the time argument' is overused and overplayed on here ...
Questions for all...
When did Quinn look the best with the Browns...year 1, 2007....year 2008...or this year, year 3, 2009?
Now, another question...When did Anderson look best for the Browns...2007, 2008, or 2009.
Once you figure out which year our QBs played best in, let's see if you can figure out the "why" they may have looked best??
I know "why" and the information is available to everyone...Once you pick out the year our QBs looked best, see if you can tell us WHY they played their best in that year?...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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...it's starting to appear more and more like the scheme is a result of what the coaching staff feels about Quinn's abilities.
Bingo. This is my theory too. I think that this is the reason he got benched in the first place- the coaching staff didn't want to have to stick to short range, dink dunk game plans that go nowhere. They saw that the guy just can't seem to be effective at the pro level. Maybe college, yes- but 27 year olds tend to be a whooooole lot faster than 20 year olds.
If Brady Quinn had the ability to throw downfield (in bounds, that is), why would they seem to *never* let him do so (until it was a desperate act at the end)? Meanwhile, with DA in there, they had him throwing all kinds of plus-10-yard passes. Maybe the receivers weren't catching them, maybe they got batted down, whatever- the point is they knew DA was at least *capable* of it on a good day, so it was in the game plan. But with Quinn, they just simply seem to not wanna go there.
I can't come to any other conclusion that the coaching staff has watched Quinn in the first 2.5 games and in practices, preseason, etc.- and realize that he just plain does not have the arm... so they're forced to limit him to slants, screens, and handoffs. It's all he can do.
Sad it's come to this...
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First, I don't trust this coaching staff to evaluate anything correctly.
Second, he seemed to be able to make some of those throws in 2008 when his receivers actually got open. The problem with Quinn is that he won't throw to covered receivers (Anderson loves to) so he checks down because our receivers are never open. Then his second problem is that he has zero time to throw because we have a running back who is too slow to be an outside threat and so everyone blitzes like crazy. The only reason DA had more time to throw was because every team knew he would just chuck it deep into double coverage where they could get a pick (because he cannot read a defense) so they dropped back into zone D's all the time. Taking Edwards/Winslow away from Quinn and not replacing them has killed his chance to develop and this teams' chance to win.
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What seems odd to me is if Mangini's evaluation of the Browns QB's after he was hired was neither guy was worthy; then why didn't he trade one of them prior to the draft? Then he could have keep one as a future backup and drafted Sanchez. The entire strategy of building the team would have been different.
Again the players who are on the field and their preparation to play is Mangini's responsibility.
The draft and trades were his decisions. The result of the 5th pick in the draft netted low impact Jet players and second round pick David Vekune who is a converted DE from Hawaii drafted to play LB. Vekune who is being "groomed" to play inside can not find the field even with the loss of both inside starters and a 1-8 record.
We can discuss what we think about our QB's till the cows come home but the roster decisions and the decision who plays is Mangini's.
Any HC worthy of the position could win 5 games coming to Cleveland at the time Mangini was hired and still put pieces in place for overall team improvement.
There is no excuse for the performance of this team I don't care who the QB is.
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The draft and trades were his decisions.
Everyone,, including me, believes that,, but we really don't know..
I only bring that up because I"m still looking for a reason that Kokinis was fired and basically run out of town..
Everyone is assuming that because all these trades took place with the Jets that it's because of the connection between Mangini and Tannenbaum... But what of the connection between Rex Ryan and Kokinis? Both having come from the Ravens,, there is smoke there...
I'ts been reported that Kokinis wasn't even aware of the Edwards trade.. perhaps thats true, perhaps it isn't..
All I know is that Kokinis is gone under unusual circumstances and Mangini remains.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Furthermore, watching his reaction on the field, he didn't look upset that he cheaped Suggs, he looked upset that they threw the flag.
He could just as easily have been upset with hurting a guy he works out with in the offseason...as being upset about the flag...as being upset about the int...etc
Sorry Toad...you have absolutely no idea what he was upset about...you are reaching here.
Let the real BQ bashing continue...
Just saw the ESPN replay with the camera from behind the QB, and I'm even more firmly entrenched in my belief than I was last night:
Quinn cheaped Suggs. He wasn't going for any ball-carrier, not by diving at Suggs' legs 
Furthermore, he CLEARLY is pleading with the Ref's after seeing them throw the flag on him. He isn't upset because he hurt a "workout buddy"
The most damning this is that he won't even admit he cheaped Suggs.
As I've said: I can see a QB being in an unfamiliar position and making a poor decision in choosing to dive at someone legs, but I CAN'T see lying about it.
Sanchez and Anderson didn't lie about it when they were fined. 
Golden-boy my arse. The more time that passes confirms all the things I'd heard about Quinn. It's also becoming a little more obvious that the players aren't behind him. We'd heard rumblings that the players favored Anderson. I bet they still do today.
What'd that sign read? "We can win with Quinn"??
Like Hell we can.
I wonder which QB we'll draft/trade-for/or sign before next year starts.........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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i'm telling you, toad, you got something to add to your "space for rent"
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Whatever the reason for Quinn and DA looking so bad I'm to the point where I want them both gone. DA is too nice a guy to be in Cleveland and Quinn will get a shot at proving what he can do with a NFL team. We surely do not have one in Cleveland.
5 offensive touchdowns this year??? We are so pathetic it is embarrassing. I still watch the games from beginning to end but no longer get excited or upset. I've become numb.
As far as Quinn and hid conduct...We will start to hear things publicly once he is gone or we lose a lot more players that are here. This stuff always seems to come out.
#gmstrong
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i'm telling you, toad, you got something to add to your "space for rent"
Hehe............Well, I'm reserving it for things that I want to happen but aren't obvious. Quinn and Anderson not leading this team in the future don't fall into that category, as they are now clearly obvious.
I'm actually leaning towards something WCO-related.......
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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ok...didn't know Frye made the team as the emergency QB....
just think....we might have Frye vs. Quinn battle coming up.
first QB to complete a 15 yard pass wins....or last one to throw a pick-6 loses.
just to correct myself because i hate spreading misinformation, cable named gradkowski the starter for this weekend's game. i guess the one i read about him having the injury isn't enough to knock him out of the game.
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The JaMarcus Russell era has ended.
For now.
Raiders coach Tom Cable, who yanked Russell for Bruce Gradkowski during Sunday's 16-10 loss to the Chiefs, said Wednesday that Gradkowski is the new starter.
Per RaiderBeat.com, Cable called the move an "easy decision."
Through nine starts in 2009, Russell has a passer rating of 47.7, with two touchdown passes and nine interceptions. For his career, the first overall pick in the 2007 draft has a passer rating of 65.5.
Gradkowski's first Raiders start will come against the 7-2 Bengals. The former Toledo Rocket started 11 games as a Buccaneers rookie in 2006 and one with the Browns in 2008.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/11/18/raiders-bench-russell-for-gradkowski/
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We gotta get this guy, he has a better passer rating than either of our QB's.
#GMSTRONG
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j/c i'm treating this as a quinn thread though it's unfortunate to have such a negative title. saw this excerpt and thought it was worth noting: Quote:
Notre Dame coach Charlie Weis, who had Quinn for the quarterback's final two years with the Irish, said earlier this week he had spoken to Quinn several times before Monday night's game. Quinn fell to 0-4 as a starter this season, 1-6 for his career.
''We make sure that he is going to stay out of the tank and stay ready to go and all that other stuff because it's been a trying year with emotional highs and lows,'' Weis said of Quinn at his weekly press conference. ''You win, you're in, you're out, you're back in. The team's not doing well. But we talk frequently.''
Weis said he also ran into Cincinnati Bengals safety Chinedum Ndukwe at Notre Dame's team hotel recently. Ndukwe and Quinn are close friends and played together at Dublin Coffman High School, where Ndukwe was a receiver, and at Notre Dame.
''I just told Nedu to make sure he stays on Brady and make sure he looks after him, because I am concerned about him,'' Weis said.
Quinn said his conversations with Weis have helped.
''Probably in a football sense, it's always helpful,'' Quinn said. ''Any time he sees things out there, I see things, we talk about it. But a lot of what we talk about isn't even always football-based. A lot is off-the-field stuff, just seeing how we're doing.''
Neither are in a very good place, with the Browns 1-8 and Weis battling to save his job.
''He's doing well,'' Quinn said of Weis. ''He's not a man who's gonna be shaken or stirred by things outside of what's going on with him.''
http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/70420722.html
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I have a question for everyone. It wouldn't surprise me if Notre Dame fired Weis. So if that happens could and should the browns go after him?
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Could we? Of course.
Should we? ... Why?
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I have a question for everyone. It wouldn't surprise me if Notre Dame fired Weis. So if that happens could and should the browns go after him?
As a head coach? Hell no. He won't get an NFL HC offer.
So what about an OC? Maybe, except that'd mean another year of Quinn, so Hell no to that as well.
So the short answer? Hell no. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Hmm.. Lets make sure I got that right.. did you mean hell no? 
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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As usual, it took you a long time to come down to the short answer. 
#gmstrong
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i'm telling you, toad, you got something to add to your "space for rent"
Hehe............Well, I'm reserving it for things that I want to happen but aren't obvious. Quinn and Anderson not leading this team in the future don't fall into that category, as they are now clearly obvious.
I'm actually leaning towards something WCO-related.......
You've clearly never been in a prison. And clearly you've never seen the Shawshank Redemption. When Suggs is going around St. Clair like a Walmart greeter on Black Friday in front of a bunch of rabid Detroit moms, then no he can't go into a 7 step drop and scan the field.
I can't ever remember a line that was so bad with a LT so good. It's unfathomable.
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I can't ever remember a line that was so bad with a LT so good. It's unfathomable.
It goes back to the draft...as we kept trading down, I was hoping that it would be Oher. Oher on the right and Fraley still manning center would have made a world of difference.
The second round...take your pick, really. Change it however you wish. It was atrocious.
We weren't expected to be contenders this year...but it could've been so much better than this.
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You can even take it a step further by saying we have two legit pieces on the left. So it becomes even more unbelievable that the pieces to the right could cause this line to be this bad.
I've made a case that Stein is overrated, but not that he's a bum. To put it in simple terms, I like to say a player is either part of the answer, or part of the problem.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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He played like a bum last night.
If someone told me he had both shoulders and hips dislocated last night I would take them at their word.
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When a finesse guy lumbers around like the second coming of Kelvin Garmon.................
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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When a finesse guy lumbers around like the second coming of Kelvin Garmon.................
Yeah ... thanks .... I had all but forgotten Garmon ....... but nioooo ...........
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I"m confused, so many people blaming BQ for monday? Mangenius needs a LT that can perform better than a revolving door. And retarded playcalling, 2 wildcat sweeps on 3rd and 5-6, about 8+ different screens, and 3 times bootlegging to throw to a back out of the backfield.
The good thing is that even St. Clair shoud be able to block somone from Det., Oak and K.C.
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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The good thing is that even St. Clair shoud be able to block somone from Det., Oak and K.C.
We'll see about that. St. Clair totally sucks and I don't think he can block anyone. How he got this gig is beyond me...and that he is our best option just blows.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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just clicking...
Speaking for myself...at some point, I believe the Browns must take a look at Brett Ratliff at QB.
He is a good sized guy who may know Daboll's offense better than Anderson or Quinn since Daboll was his QB coach last season in NY.
The Browns need to know what they have at QB and that includes our #3.
Time begin to begin looking ahead and find guys who can help this team in the future, IMO.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 38
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Wow. here's some brutal (and accurate) wisdom from Baltimore Sun writer Mike Preston on Bardy Quinn and the Browns offense. link Tom: Were you surprised that the Cleveland Browns didn't throw the ball downfield more and challenge the Ravens' secondary? What did the Browns have to lose? Mike Preston: Anybody who has watched the Ravens play this year knows the way to beat them is to throw the ball downfield. It's not rocket science. What you saw was a complete lack of faith in Browns quarterback Brady Quinn. He threw the ball to the sidelines as if it were a scripted play and their receivers didn't have a clue about what pass route to run. Quinn has always been overrated. If he didn't play for Notre Dame, he might not be in the league. He has a pea-shooter for an arm. He could only play for the Browns, the Broncos or the Ravens when Joe Flacco is having one of those checkdown days. Don't you love it? "Anybody who has watched the Ravens play this year knows the way to beat them is to throw the ball downfield," and yet that's exactly what we *didn't* do because Mangini said something about the Ravens pass defense being too much. I'm sorry, but these weird "no-movement" gameplans they seem to run when Brady gets in, combined with the fact that Mangini is basically trying to cover up for a guy who can't throw by saying "we didn't pass against them 'cause they defend the pass well"- when, meanwhile, someone who watches them every week is saying that's the way to *beat* the Ravens, makes me think more and more that Mangini is just a BS artist and Quinn truly is a garbage, not-worthy-of-the-NFL QB. I cannot WAIT until Mangini, Daboll, Quinn, Anderson. Robert Royal, Brian Robiskie (and probably Lerner) and all these other total chumps are GONE so we can have the Cleveland Browns back.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,275
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,275 |
Quote:
The most damning this is that he won't even admit he cheaped Suggs.
I think you are giving BQ waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much credit for actually being able to see...then implement...the opportunity to "cheap" someone.
He has played in approx 6 games in the past three years as a QB...I bet he has not made - or even attempted - to tackle anyone since...maybe high school.
Yet at the speed of an NFL game he was able to "cheap" a guy after an interception. 
I've seen the replay a dozen times...that whole thing happened so fast that there is no way a QB could have premeditated a "cheap"...no way. Especially a guy who hasn't seen many snaps in a real game.
I know you really dislike BQ and you have always backed up your argument and criticism of him - be it right or wrong as who really knows?
But I think you are waaaaay wrong with your insistence that this was a cheapshot. He is not that good of a QB let alone that good of a defender/tackler.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,275
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,275 |
Quote:
just clicking...
Speaking for myself...at some point, I believe the Browns must take a look at Brett Ratliff at QB.
He is a good sized guy who may know Daboll's offense better than Anderson or Quinn since Daboll was his QB coach last season in NY.
The Browns need to know what they have at QB and that includes our #3.
Time begin to begin looking ahead and find guys who can help this team in the future, IMO.
This would be true if Rat had some magical potion that would allow him more than 2 seconds before having someone in his face. Until that little problem gets fixed, it doesn't matter who is our QB and doesn't matter who we are playing against.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
Exactly. I don't think our QBs are as bad as they appear. They may not be Peyton Manning, but I don't think they are really as crappy as they seem either. Continuing to rotate around the squad will do nothing but make us all believe we don't have a serviceable QB...and I think we have at least two.
We have GOT to cut these guys a break until they have some protection and more than two seconds to throw.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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