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Quote:
Maybe you should reread what was said and what I refuted. Here is his statement:
On the first 3rd down when Frye dropped back, held the ball, held the ball, ran for a little bit...sack. I knew it was gonna be a long year and Savage whiffed on the QB situation
The FIRST GAME OF THE YEAR ON ONE PLAY, he decided that Frye was not the QB for the Browns. That's absurd to be polite.
Also, who has an "affinity" for Frye: I have said we don't know what Frye has to bring to the table yet and it's too soon to throw him on the scrapheap. It's the impatience and ignorance of the game that makes me come to his defense and sound like a Frye pimp. After all, Ammo was demanding we draft Smith with the #3 pick before the championship game! That type of "typical fan" crap being spewed is something that people with a clue about the game SHOULD take to task. It has nothing to do with my "affinity" with Frye.
Not exactly true. I hadn't written him off at that point. I just had a sick pit in my stomach that said he wasn't gonna be half the player we hoped he'd be. I had a bad, bad feeling.
Hell, I defended him when my brother called me later that game and says "Screw Frye."
That gut feeling was later vindicated. I was basically summing up the feelings I had at that point. It wasn't so much "Frye's not the guy" as it was "Oh boy...I have a baaad feeling about this."
You're telling me you never get those gut feelings you hope your wrong about? That was one of them.
Last edited by Ammo; 02/07/07 12:55 PM.
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Poser
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Actually, it hasn't been vindicated. Your very limited opinion has been decided, but it is far from vindicated. If what I posted wasn't true, don't blame me that you didn't post what was 
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but how many other folks here or on the browns organization saw what Charlie really has, what kind of evaluation was actually made?
I'm sure that was done and to be fair their(the Browns) evaluations might call for another year for him ..I still say lets see what happens come FA ..
I have heard some thoughts that the Browns won't be taking a QB in the draft...we'll see..if both are gone as Opie said it's a moot point.
DND..U wanna see a mock with Quinn/Russell in it?
U ought to know I can put together a mock for any situation 
I' ve already got several cooked up with Quinn/Russell/Peterson/Thomas as our first pick..
But because I feel that way about Frye doesn't mean Opie does...or doesn't..we know who Lerner likes..Rac has maintained he likes Frye..
I see Fryes intangibles not overcoming his physical weaknesses..
While he's tough and can make plays..he can't make all the throws..he has trouble with timing routes and those include those cuts over the middle ..he often has those behind the reciever..
His ability to read defenses bother me as is his patience ..he also has those trigger happy feet which often makes him take a sack when he doesn't have to..
I think he stalls out in a drive instead of finishing it..I like the kid but I honestly don't think he can make the plays when needed.
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U well know that all those bums that Opie jettisoned were not marque players at all..they weren't worth anything..
What the heck did those guys do in the four years Botch had them?
One year in the playoffs the other years 7-9, 4-10, 5-11..yet U wanted to keep those clowns?
Look what just happened to Denver...all those ex-Browns brought in..people in here ACTUALLY crying that we dropped the ball and shoulda kep them..NOW they want those bums out..and they FIRED PATTERSON who brought them all in..
ugggghhh...........bro I said the team needed gutting..........don't know where you are getting that from. The best thing Phil ever did was gut that team and get rid of the dead weight................again don't know where you got that from my post.
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well know the first year was a gut and patch job, and save MONEY ..thats where Druzzi, Coleman and the others came in..Druzzi wasn't a bad signing..but Coleman..no I wouldn't have..
Yeah it was, but the problem is we used the same strategy last year. Eventually, we've got to spend some jack because this team has too many holes to keep pissing away FA like we've done for 2 years now (and no I'm not talking about La who was a good signing).
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U say the team needed gutting but they couldn' t replace them all with outstanding FA's in one year.
errrrr........that's why I said that I knew it would take 5 years to rebuild the team from scratch, and that I'm not blaming Savage, but if someone is to blame it would be him moreso than RAC..........don't know where you are getting the "hatorade" comment either, because all I said was the truth...........Vince Lombardi couldn't win with this group, and there hasn't been enough time to bring in a quality group yet. I was responding to Ammo saying that someone needed to go if we don't win next year (implying RAC), and that's plain BS, becasue he's never had the chance to succeed.............and you know that.
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No and no one should ever misconscrew that from me..I awlays voice things I don't like and give the WHY ..but I see the guy is trying , he's made some mistakes in how certain things were done but I'm giving the guy a chance to improve the team
And so am I .....................I'm just not willing to blame EVERYONE but him for those mistakes he's made. I'm not the one wanting anyone fired for this mess, becasue like I said in the original post it hasn't been near enough time. However, if the masses want to assign blame, and demand results then Phil get's alot more credit for the shape we are in than RAC does for the very mistakes that you mentioned.
I like you bro, and think you have a pretty good understanding of the game, and therefore I KNOW that you have enough sense to know that RAC has never had a real shot to win here, but there is a growing mass of idiots who want to crucify him so that they can justify the golden boy Savage..........and it's wrong.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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ugggghhh...........bro I said the team needed gutting..........don't know where you are getting that from. The best thing Phil ever did was gut that team and get rid of the dead weight................again don't know where you got that from my post.
I just threw that in there just for my purposes..just in case anyone still thinks those bums are worthwhile..they aren't..don't take it seriously.. And again I might remind U that McGinest wasn't brought in until after Phil lost out on three prospective OLB's,(Bart Scott being one) the last one was the idiot..errr youngin from Detroit who listened to Daddy and resigned with those losers..errrr Lions.. That kid going back to Dtown left us without a pass rusher..had he signed , guess who woulda been our pick at 11? Not Wimbley..Ngata..because then Rac would have had his pass rusher and he woulda needed a run stuffer.. don't know where you are getting the "hatorade" comment either Well from this comment: Phil is responsible for all of this mess, and if you truly believe that this team should be competitive next year then he's the guy you want to blame. All this mess...hmmm no hateraide huh?  And this one: However, if you are disatisfied with the results next year the guy you want to get rid of is Savage, becasue he's the one that has made the mistakes and assembled a team that like I said Vinnie Lombardi himself couldn't reach .500 with.
How is that not some Hateraide mixed in with your Hawaiian Punch?  C'on bro thats not some sweet ole luv being tossed his way..now is it?
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 02/07/07 03:28 PM.
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no it's the truth...lol. IF someone feels the need to lay blame when we are less than stellar next year then Phil would be the one to blame.........becasue Vinnie couldn't reach .500 with this group............not hating just truth. I personally am intellegent enough to know that when we cleaned out Botch's mess we where 4 to 5 years away from being competitive...............others not so much............and Phil is there guy for not working miracles, and making the same mistakes you noted. RAC has just been doing the best he can with a boat load of crap................can't blame him at all, because he never had a chance.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Course when U phrase it that way...guess the Hateraide chilled into Sim-eraide.. I hold Rac accountable for not being in touch with the offensive pulse and he should have had a OC who was a general in the sense.. But the talent assembled is Opies but with imput from Rac..now Opie's first draft was putrid in the second day and I know he could have done WAY BETTER than the crap he took.. Heck I coulda drafted us two starters from day 2 So yeah I do see what you're saying but in the earlier post it sounded more like u WERE ISOLATING Phil to take a shot at him..
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Legend
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If the talent is here,you blame RAC. If the drafts and FA's don't produce the talent to win,you blame Savage.
Right now,we don't have the talent. This is will be year three. Let's see which comes first,the chicken or the egg.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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GIFT... Quote:
Looking at that list it's hard to say we're any better at all, especially considering three years of picks and $100 million in FA.
well, the 1st part is debatable, but the 2nd 2 statements are laughably innaccurate...
1. Savage has had TWO years of picks...
2. who was aquired during the FA spending spree? McGinest, Washington, Stewart, Baxter, Russel, Druzzi, Coleman, Bentley, Shaffer, Zastudil...am i missing anyone?...i count 5 D, 4 O, 1 ST...so Savage didn't spend all that on O...
he clearly missed on Shaffer and got less out of Andruzzi than anticipated...Coleman's bad, but better than Garmon, IMO...and you can't blame Phil for signing Bentley...so in trying to fix a problem area, he was 2/4 in improving those positions...
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Phil and RAC's biggest mistakes have stemmed from trying to completely overhaul our scheme. Trying to impliment the 3-4 with the talent on the roster has proven to be a complete blunder.
b/c the previous scheme and talent was working so effectively! ...and please tell me you're kidding about the 3-4 switch...if you can't see that the CONTRIBUTING talent on this D is much better than on our 04 D, i think you're nuts...i loved Court, but he didn't contribute very often...Warren was talented, but lazy...who else was even mentionable in this discussion? Davis was probably the best on that D, and he's not even the best LB now...
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It only got worse by shoving the few talented players we had out the door in favor of "improvements" (see Garcia, Faine, Bryant, etc).
even though every new regime does this (around the league), i agree that it's cutting your nose off to spite your face in many cases...perhaps here to a degree, but there was also the strong feeling that the attitude in Berea needed to change, which means new personality...new players...understandable in that regard...
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And even more frightening is that now they're doing the same thing to the coaching staff..... Davidson, Rosburg........ It's inept.
more garbage...Davidson left b/c we wouldn't promote him (just what did he do to show he deserved it?), and Rosburg just left period...neither one was forced out of their job...
this all sounds like i'm buying all the Browns PR, which isn't the case...there have definately been mistakes made...but as you mentioned, these guys were all new, and anyone that wasn't EXPECTING on-the-job-training was kidding themselves...making mistakes while trying to identify and fix problems is not a deal-breaker for me, not being able to identify problems, and not learning from your mistakes is...and neither Phil nor RAC has been here long enough to make those conclusions...
Browns fans are born with it...
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He needs a better qubee coach. No veteran help? He was allowed to develop worse habits by year's end than he had at first. Holding it too long, not throwing it away, getting beat to a shred week after week, it is readily understandable, it is easily explainable, and patently unacceptable. If he says he sees it in the film room or on the sidelines, it is too freekin late. I want the kid to succeed, to see what he can do, and with so little help, advice, etc. It is at least negligent, profoundly dumb, and possibly borders on pigskin criminal. Did the other two "keepers" improve horribly much? I would love to have swapped em for a player proven. It boils down to this; bad choices have been made; the overpaid have failed tpo produce, and thereby to please and satisfy. But we do not seem to have a learning curve, we don't coach people out of mistakes. Or their seeming mistakes are a product of lousy philosophy and errant strategy. We need more. we need it in 70 days. Commit to a shorter list of commitments to overwhelming improvement. And make that happen. Hello, we don't even have an evolved solid base beyond a handful (tops) for our seasons. Use the Force, Phil! And may the Elf be with you!     
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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I believe Randy Cross, may have said it best.
Clevelands ruined one QB, let's hope they don't do it again.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Legend
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I believe Randy Cross, may have said it best.
Clevelands ruined one QB, let's hope they don't do it again.
That's way over simplfied, but the point is valid....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Opie & RAC's 5 year plan.
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