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Interesting read........thanks.
This leads credence to the idea he has real interest in the Browns job, because as someone mentioned if he was only using the Browns gig as leverage then he would have listened to the Bills job for the sake of having another option/bidder.
I hope Lerner get's this done, because there simply isn't anyone more qualified to handle the position that he wants imo. I want a guy who's been a HC and had FO experience, because (again imo) this gives him a full understanding of what a team needs to be successful in every area of the organization. Furthermore, I like Holmgren because in Seattle he took a pathetic organization and installed a PLAN and a PHILOSOPHY that ended in a SB berth. We haven't anyone who has sniffed doing anything like that.
I also will be disappointed if we go after another "wonder kid" scout in the mold of Savage or Kok.........aka Heckert. Again my opinion, but I want someone who has been a GM before, and had success doing it........not someone who is a scouting "guru" who may or may not be worth a crap.
Go get Holmgren Lerner!!!!!
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I'm warming to the idea of Holmgren.
SF,GB,Seattle.He's certainly been around some winning orgs.He should know what it takes to get there.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Said it 3 or 4 times so far..if. you. want. him. go. get. him!!!!
in Lerners position, he will only get maybe 1 bite of the apple.. he's gotta do it right.. Since Holmgren is saying he wants to wait until after the season, Lerner would be smart to let him know the job is his, (if it is his) but dumb to push him to accept it now.
It's a fine line... you want to be aggresive and just go get the guy, but at the same time, you want it to be right.. and that may mean letting him make his decision in his time frame. Might be that way.. Dunno...
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Said it 3 or 4 times so far..if. you. want. him. go. get. him!!!!
in Lerners position, he will only get maybe 1 bite of the apple.. he's gotta do it right.. Since Holmgren is saying he wants to wait until after the season, Lerner would be smart to let him know the job is his, (if it is his) but dumb to push him to accept it now.
It's a fine line... you want to be aggresive and just go get the guy, but at the same time, you want it to be right.. and that may mean letting him make his decision in his time frame. Might be that way.. Dunno...
That's kind of what I meant, let him know it's his for the taking. There must be a condition that he won't leave us hanging and then it be too late for other options. Lerner can't be played here either!
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just my opinion, i know holmgreen had his gm duties taken away in seattle, but i think if he takes a front office position and doesn't coach, i think becuase that's all he has on his plate, he will do very well. i would love to have him running the browns. i think it would be a move that would take randy out of the spotlight.
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It's a fine line... you want to be aggresive and just go get the guy, but at the same time, you want it to be right.. and that may mean letting him make his decision in his time frame. Might be that way.. Dunno...
The only problem Lerner faces is if his "Plan B" candidate wants to know right now.. that puts him in a dilemma... do I wait and risk losing Plan B also if Holmgren says no, or do I lock up Plan B guy now and forget about Holmgren.....
This is all assuming Holmgren is Plan A... and that a Plan B guy even exists...
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It's a fine line... you want to be aggresive and just go get the guy, but at the same time, you want it to be right.. and that may mean letting him make his decision in his time frame. Might be that way.. Dunno...
The only problem Lerner faces is if his "Plan B" candidate wants to know right now.. that puts him in a dilemma... do I wait and risk losing Plan B also if Holmgren says no, or do I lock up Plan B guy now and forget about Holmgren.....
This is all assuming Holmgren is Plan A... and that a Plan B guy even exists...
Would you just stop it!! You're gonna get Lerner all confused! 
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This is all assuming Holmgren is Plan A... and that a Plan B guy even exists...
Ahh, we don't know a thing for sure.. We don't even know if LERNER thinks that Holmgren is the right guy.. I guess we'll have to wait and see...
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I believe we see Holgram after the season, to bring him on now would just bring more media frenzie on Mangini's future and MH dosent wanna say one way or another yet and for a active coach what does that do for the team the rest of the way. I think we see Holgram signed & working the day after the regular season is over.
clay...If I'm Lerner, I'm not worried about causing issues for Mangini by hiring Holmgren before the season is over.
Lerner's first priority should be to get Holmgren to sign on the dotted line ASAP. One possibility might be to have a deal signed with the option left up to Holmgren as to when he wants to start.
The Browns have created an opening for a football czar and Holmgren is available...I wouldn't have a problem if he went to work tomorrow.
I'm sure Lerner knows he must meet all NFL requirements before he could hire Holmgren and it's not an issue that would stop Lerner from hiring MH while meeting league requirements.
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j/c...
What about Bill Parcells?
I know, why would he leave Miami?
The answer is ego.
There has been some speculation that he might be looking to leave Miami for the same role with another team. Parcells strikes me as a guy who might be looking for another team to turn around just to prove that he's the man.
I know it's not likely, but why not at least try to contact him after the year is over?
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...........because it's a lateral move, he's under contract, and thus we can't without tampering that would cost us draft picks........and we still wouldn't get him, because he's under contract. That's why 
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Its worth a shot, but at nearly 70 years old would you leave Miami for Cleveland ?
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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I'm 22, and wouldn't leave Miami for Cleveland, but my ego isn't the size of Ohio, either
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I'm 22, and wouldn't leave Miami for Cleveland, but my ego isn't the size of Ohio, either
Just so we are clear here.. if Randy Lerner offered you a GM job with the Browns and was willing to pay you 4 or 5 Million a year for let's say a 5 year contract... You'd say,, hey dude, I'm not leaving the beach 
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I meant if it was a lateral move for me.
If Randy Lerner offered me right now 4-5 million, I'd move to Iraq if I needed to.
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...........because it's a lateral move, he's under contract, and thus we can't without tampering that would cost us draft picks........and we still wouldn't get him, because he's under contract.
That's why
Generally you would be correct. However, I saw a report that Parcells can leave the Dolphins at any time and still collect the remainder of his contract without penalty, or restrictions. His agent built a clause in his contract that allows this if the ownership of the team were to switch hands during the term of his contract - which it has. Therefore, he can leave whenever he wants for whatever he wants.
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not true....we had it posted in the last thread.
the condition was that he would have 30 days to decide if he wanted out of his contract if ownership changed hands. there was another sketchy report that it may have been extended to 60 days.
in no way was it reported that it was an 'at any time' type of deal....imagine how stupid the Dolphins would look for agreeing to such a thing in the first place.
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To further that point, the window closed last year when the new ownership took over and the 30 day window expired. Thus going back to my original point that Parcells cannot be approached about this job, because it is a lateral move............doing so would result in a tampering case.
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I meant if it was a lateral move for me.
LOL I understood,, just havin some fun with ya
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there goes speculation he was using the Browns to get the Seahawks GM job......if he was truly just interested in leverage, he would meet with both teams (more demand, same supply = higher price / more leverage)
Then again, by turning down the Bills he is showing that he is really interested in the Browns. That is better leverage than meeting with both which could mean he may not have a strong interest in either.
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that's a bad strategy....
what if the Browns hire Accorsi out of retirement or Wolf or someone else in the next couple weeks? bye-bye leverage.
i think what we have here is geniune interest from a guy who has been apart of resurrecting 2 different franchises.
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I don't know that it's a strategy at all. I just felt that it's a better leverage to appear serious about one option than perhaps not really very serious at all about two. If he's willing to meet with both then neither tips the scale. As has been said, by turning down the Bills he is showing that he is serious about the Browns. I'm saying, that by visiting both it proves no real seriousness toward either. Now we know he is serious about the Browns. That's good leverage. You'd like to get back with your girlfriend but she's been out on dates with two or three other guys. So she's likely not really serious about any of them. But if she's dating one dude exclusively, then that might be serious. Now you're concerned. In fact, that might be the bastage she left you for. Really, and now that I think of it, he needs his ass kicked. You should go over there right now, take a gun and scare the hell of his ass. Shoot him in the leg just so he knows you're not kidding around. But if all it is is her going out with other people she's just teasing you. Nothing to really worry about. Let her know how you feel and before you know it she'll be licking your boots again. There's point in there somewhere. 
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I agree. If he was using us as leverage he would be talking to any team that is interested.
But, the Bills want him as a coach.
Seattle would want him as a GM type. So would we. I suspect he will only talk to teams that want him as a GM type guy.
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Just clicking,,
I don't think any of us know enough about backroom conversations to even speculate what it means..
it's just as easy to say he nixed the Bills so that he can demonstrate sincere interest in the browns for no other reason then to get the seahawks off the dime..
I'll say it again, I sure hope we get Holmgren... For what its worth, I think he'sthe best fit for this team AND this town....
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You're right. But they already said the Bills wanted him to coach and he doesn't want to coach. He wants a FO job.
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Sounds right Ddub.. the thing is, you just don't know if what was leaked to the press is what was really said,, however,, in this case, it appears accurate.
The more I think about Holmgren and the type of fans we have here, I can't help feeling as if this is a match made in heaven.
The man knows football, I doubt anyone would argue that. That means he walks in the door with a ton of cred so when he does something that the fans don't immediatly embrace, they'll let it play out with him in charge..
Whereas, an unproven guy like Savage didn't have that cred. so everything was scrutinized to death.
He won't be a coach here, but he knows what it takes,, again, instant cred.
That doesn't mean that his First HC Hire will work out perfectly. But he'll know and he'll be able to correct..
The man has so much cred, that Randy Lerner can really and truely become the kind of owner I think he wants to be.. Unseen, Unheard, never in the spotlight. Even when harrassed by a Human French Frye, he didn't come to face the public. I really like Lerner... I hope he can land Holmgren..
#GMSTRONG
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The man knows football, I doubt anyone would argue that. That means he walks in the door with a ton of cred so when he does something that the fans don't immediatly embrace, they'll let it play out with him in charge..
let me say this simply...you underestimate the unreasonable expectations of this team's fanbase. the era that many fans around here shelve their agendas, work to understand and appreciate the FO plan, and show patience as the plan is executed will be the first time i've seen it. and Holmgren ain't coaching...his record in player aquisition is mediocre, IMO, and while i would give him a clean slate and the benefit of the doubt, i don't see many posters doing the same.
Browns fans are born with it...
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let me say this simply...you underestimate the unreasonable expectations of this team's fanbase.
I completely disagree with you... 100% disagree. You are underestimating the fans..
Remember, What you see and read on here isn't completely representitive of the total fanbase of the Cleveland Browns...
,
We've got what,, a couple thousand posters on here. and maybe there is something like 250,000 Browns fans in the Browns Backers clubs alone..
this board and the Browns Board are but a small part of the Fanbase....
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..his record in player aquisition is mediocre, IMO,
This bothers me and it keeps getting repeated.
He has never been a player acquisition guy: A GM. He has only been a GM while coaching at the same time. I think it's easily understood that playing a dual role is twice as tough as doing one job at a time.
Once he relinquished the GM role he took the team to the Superbowl. It could just as easily be that had he relinquished his head coaching duties and focused on the role of GM he could have done just as well.
I'm just saying that he can't be judged in his role as GM in Seattle as his track record for being solely a GM in his next gig. But it is being done on here a lot.
Doing both of those jobs is really stretching a guy thin. Hell, being a head coach alone in the NFL is stretching a guy thin. I think that's the reason many, many good coaches have failed at it.
I think if he comes in here having already had experience in both roles he would not only be qualified to be the Czar but would also be qualified to oversee a GM and a HC even if one or both of them were first timers. I wouldn't wish first timers on him in both roles but believe he could handle it.
If Lerner could land Holmgren and Holmgren could land an experienced GM together they could nurture even a first time HC and keep him out of trouble. My real wish would be that all three would have had experience at their respective roles.
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just clicking...
Should Holmgren be hired as Czar, could Texas A&M head coach, Mike Sherman, be a viable candidate for the Browns HC job?
Watching the Aggie offense take on the Texas defense, supposedly the best defense in college football, my thoughts are Sherman, with his offensive expertise, would be just what the Browns need.
Sherman's background...OL, TE, OC, ass HC and HC in the NFL and college.
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ass HC EEEEEWWWW 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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The ONLY college coach I want any part of is Ferentz.
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The ONLY college coach I want any part of is Ferentz.
I agree. He and Harbaugh intrigue me, but Ferentz more-so after this year. He fields impressive Hawkeyes teams and has consistently improved. All you ever hear is great things about the guy from the commentators and his ex-players.
But besides making his first-time transition to Pro Head Coach, could the Browns simply be too big of a challenge for him?
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I like Ferentz, but I believe I would like a break from the "Belichick Tree" for a few years. Its tired.
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Ferentz is not my first choice. He's just the only college coach I'd be okay with.
I'd be okay with him, because like they say "Talent wins 90% of the time in college sports". Well, Iowa since Ferentz has been there has been that 10% because he wins with half the talent as schools like Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, and even Illinois bring in.
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Watching the Aggie offense take on the Texas defense, supposedly the best defense in college football, my thoughts are Sherman, with his offensive expertise, would be just what the Browns need.
Hardly.
Sherman has been highly criticized for what he hasn't done at A&M. Basing any judgment on one game against an overrated Texas team isn't wise.
Yeah, there's a connection between Sherman and Holmgren, but he's not going to be a viable candidate as a head coach.
Now as an OC? Different story, but he'd have to be fired from A&M first, and they aren't doing well money wise, so it'd be a tough pill to swallow to fire him and his contract.
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Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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My brother-in-law is a big Aggies fan and hates him...lol. They've been wishing for the days of Jackie Sherril there for awhile..lol.
I have a hard time thinking Sherman is going to get a HC coaching gig again right now. As you said I could see him as an OC, but not as a HC.
Oh and UT is probably overrated, but I'm not convinced they aren't better than UF/UA. I live in SEC country right now, and neither of those 2 have played well in over a month (Chattanooga and UFAtlantic do not count..lol). You'll think I'm crazy, but for 1 game my money would be on TCU to beat any of them........they are very good every time I see them.
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DAMAN...
we'll have to agree to disagree. i'm not saying everyone is like that...but you know the phrase about the squeaky wheel, right? for God's sake, Lerner meets with 2 fans, and its the Frye Guys...that about sums up which group of fans are 'leading' the way.
DDUBIA...
please don't mistake what i was saying. i generally agree with what you are saying, and i can guarantee that i would not be the one to harp on Holmgren's drafts during those years. but there will be many vocal fans doing just that. then again, to say that he would've done just as well as a sole GM as he did a sole HC is not a given, by any stretch...he came from coaching, and tried to transition to a managment role on top. we really have no idea how he'd do.
Browns fans are born with it...
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Quote:
we'll have to agree to disagree. i'm not saying everyone is like that...but you know the phrase about the squeaky wheel, right? for God's sake, Lerner meets with 2 fans, and its the Frye Guys...that about sums up which group of fans are 'leading' the way.
THAT is ridiculous... If he hadn't met with them, then a bunch of folks would have been all over him for that.. that was a no win situation for Lerner...and it was idiotic by those too human french fries....
I want you to note, he didn't stand in front of the press like those idiots wanted him too..
Those guys don't speak for me, I would bet they don't speak for more than 2000 or so fans.. OUT of hundreds of thousands... Again, you are looking at a small sample and thinking they are the ones that speak for Browns fans..
That just isn't the case...
Last edited by Damanshot; 11/27/09 06:37 PM.
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ass HC EEEEEWWWW
Yep, MIKE SHERMAN..
I'm not saying he would be my only choice but one of my "possibles" due to his connections with Holmgren and his strong background on the offensive side.
But I must say, I am getting the cart ahead of the horse ... Holmgren is not a Brown...just a candidate for our new job opening...therefore, all this talk by me and others is pure speculation.
Speaking about the type of HC I want, if Mangini is fired...I have had it with defensive minded coaches as HC. The only way I could feel good about another HC with defensive experience would be IF he were supported by an OC who has NFL experience...or an ex HC with offensive experience.
Should Holmgren be our guy for Czar..with his background from the offensive side of the ball...I would feel comfortable about the quality of people he would hire.
I never want to see "unqualified/inexperienced" coaches and coordinators working for this franchise, again.
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