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So I've been thinking about something ... I'm not sure that I dislike Mangini the coach. I'm sure that I don't like Mangini the personnel guy. I know that I really dislike starting over all the time. Would it be so bad if we brought in a Pres/GM that decides to keep Mangini on as the coach? Taking that even further, would it be what's best for the organization? I'm starting to wonder if would be. I don't believe the players hate Mangini as much as it's being portrayed. I also believe that it's very difficult to change a culture. What if what is happening now are the necessary aches and pains - albeit as painful as they are - to start down the road of SUSTAINED success? Not a one or two year flash in the pan ... but something that is good for a long time. Just something I've been stewing on ... maybe we are right about Mangini the GM ... maybe we are wrong about Mangini the Coach? I've wanted Mangini gone yesterday. But hell, I can't stand this starting over again and again and again ... if we can get a personnel guy with a proven track record and final say ... and a new OC ... would that be what's best for the Browns? Discuss. P.S. Django, take it easy on me, please. 
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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No.
Wait, let me rephrase that ... HELL, NO.
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The terms "mangini" and "next year" have no place on a browns message board.
He doesn't play young talented guys like hall and Harrison in favor of the castaways.
He's got just about the least-inspiring body language of any coach in the NFL. At least Wade philips slack-jawed awe isn't pouty.
Our team has got to be among the worst in the league after halftime. that difference is on the coach. Oh wait we ARE the worst team in the league.
Mangini has to go. If Roscoe Parrish hadn't fbled that punt with less than 2 minutes left in the game and we were 0-10, could you even consider keeping him next year?
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Quote:
He doesn't play young talented guys like hall and Harrison in favor of the castaways.
He's got just about the least-inspiring body language of any coach in the NFL.
I'm not happy with either of these points as well.
But sometimes I wonder if we are all just thinking too short-sighted, myself included. We are in a day and age where we want instant satisfaction ... where we have no patience at all ... and again, I include myself in that bunch on certain things.
As for Hall, well I don't know that we have that much to be upset about there. Harrison is a head scratcher to me. You've got to find a way to get your best players on the field ... that's the coaches job. I think Mangini works too much from a black and white perspective ... he has a very clear vision of what he wants and how he wants his players to behave and what he wants them to do to get there ... and it's almost robotic-like ... and if you don't fit the exact mold ... you're kind of in the doghouse ... instead of treating each player like individuals and maximizing their talents.
Still, even with the things we don't like ... I'm not sure kicking him to the curb is what's going to be best for this franchise ... I'm assuming of course we bring in one or two guys for Pres/GM. We absolutely must do that. Let the coach focus on coaching.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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j/c
I'm just sick of the Patriots style of running an organization. Outside of Bellyache himself, I don't think anyone has any clue as how to do it.
We need someone who does it his own way and not someone's way just because they were successful with it. We need a coach with original ideas and passion. Mangini, Romeo, and Palmer had neither of those qualities.
you had a good run Hank.
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As I recall, we didn't much care of the way Belichick did it himself when he was here.
#GMSTRONG
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It's an idea worth considering, rish. I wouldn't be completely against it. I'd rather someone else handle the draft, though.
I wish a player would genuinely speak out and say the squad is behind Mangini, & they believe in him. A coach who has lost his team needs to be gone.
Ahh, who knows?
We'll know when/if the new "czar" gets here, or soon after.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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If the following factors were not in play:
1. Terrible offseason
2. Terrible draft
3. Gutted our team of talent
4. Rookie camp issue
5. Moved the video room unnecessarily, wasting money
6. Fired front office pr and media people, making local media jobs harder
7. Hired and fired his friend as GM
8. Done the double switch at QB, handling it terribley.
9. Gone 1-9, should be 0-10.
10. Gotten two people hurt in "opportunity sessions"
11. Brought the NFLPA in for investigations
12. Gotten player hurt in offseason while practicing in rain
13. Lost to a team that had won once in 23 games.
14. Fined a player $1,700 for not paying for a bottle of water
15. Blamed another friend for faking injuries to slow down his offense
16. Burnt every NFL bridge, every local media bridge and basically having to find people who don't know him to creampuff interviews.
Then I'd be right there with you.
I'm all for continuity but it has to be the right guy. Or even a mediocre guy.
Mangini is awful man. Just get that thought out of your mind.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Heldawg/rgiii2.jpg)
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All laid out, in a nice row like that with numbers, it does make Mangini look kinda bad. 
gmstrong -----------------
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Quote:
As I recall, we didn't much care of the way Belichick did it himself when he was here.
Which is why I am wondering we hired two Bellyache clones when it's obvious that approach didn't even work with Bellyache HIMSELF.
I am just so not a fan of hiring someone just because they were told what to do by a great football mind.
you had a good run Hank.
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I say keep him... I said it a long time ago... Might as well stick with the guy for the long haul.. like 7+ years...
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Wow ..... I gotta call BS on some of these ..... Quote:
Gutted our team of talent
Gutted implies that there was a great deal of talent here. Who were these talented players ..... because I can't quite make them out ......
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Gotten player hurt in offseason while practicing in rain
Wow ..... the humanity ... I mean .. practicing in the rain? What's next? Expecting us to play in snow ....?
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Moved the video room unnecessarily, wasting money
Does anyone really give a damn about this?
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Fined a player $1,700 for not paying for a bottle of water
And has stated that this was not the 1st, 2nd, or even 3rd time this player had taken stuff from a hotel without paying. Yeah ... responsibility is a terrible thing .....
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Fired front office pr and media people, making local media jobs harder
Again .. who gives a rat's ass?
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Gotten two people hurt in "opportunity sessions"
Frankly, I would want players to take advantage of these sessions ... as they are for players well down the depth chart to work with their position coaches on more of a 1 on 1 basis. Is this really a bad thing?
You can argue some things .... like the handling of the QBs .... but you are really digging pretty deep to try and come up with some of these other things.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
If the following factors were not in play:
1. Terrible offseason
2. Terrible draft
3. Gutted our team of talent
4. Rookie camp issue
5. Moved the video room unnecessarily, wasting money
6. Fired front office pr and media people, making local media jobs harder
7. Hired and fired his friend as GM
8. Done the double switch at QB, handling it terribley.
9. Gone 1-9, should be 0-10.
10. Gotten two people hurt in "opportunity sessions"
11. Brought the NFLPA in for investigations
12. Gotten player hurt in offseason while practicing in rain
13. Lost to a team that had won once in 23 games.
14. Fined a player $1,700 for not paying for a bottle of water
15. Blamed another friend for faking injuries to slow down his offense
16. Burnt every NFL bridge, every local media bridge and basically having to find people who don't know him to creampuff interviews.
Then I'd be right there with you.
I'm all for continuity but it has to be the right guy. Or even a mediocre guy.
Mangini is awful man. Just get that thought out of your mind.
I agree.
Some of the items don't matter, or can be excused.
But tossing the team into a full nose dive is inexcusable.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Ok,, I consider the following just piling on.. 2. Terrible draft: You don't know if this is a terrible draft.. Mack is fine, Davis was looking good before injury, MoMass is looking solid, Meiava (sp) is solid and getting better. Francise might end up being a solid DB 5. Moved the video room unnecessarily, wasting money: Come on,, who cares where the video room is located.. as if that will make the team better 7. Hired and fired his friend as GM: He recommended Kokinis,, He didn't hire him or fire him.. 9. Gone 1-9, should be 0-10' this is piling on.. we won.. that's all you need to say. 1-9 is bad enough,, no need to embellish 10. Gotten two people hurt in "opportunity sessions": again, no need to embellish,, guys get hurt,,, it was investigated and he was cleared.. 12. Gotten player hurt in offseason while practicing in rain: Geez, let's put skirts on them... they play in the rain don't they? that leaves you with 10 Legit issues,, that's enough to get him fired in my mind,, no need to embellish... he's bad enough on the real things 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
If the following factors were not in play:
1. Terrible offseason
2. Terrible draft
3. Gutted our team of talent
4. Rookie camp issue
5. Moved the video room unnecessarily, wasting money
6. Fired front office pr and media people, making local media jobs harder
7. Hired and fired his friend as GM
8. Done the double switch at QB, handling it terribley.
9. Gone 1-9, should be 0-10.
10. Gotten two people hurt in "opportunity sessions"
11. Brought the NFLPA in for investigations
12. Gotten player hurt in offseason while practicing in rain
13. Lost to a team that had won once in 23 games.
14. Fined a player $1,700 for not paying for a bottle of water
15. Blamed another friend for faking injuries to slow down his offense
16. Burnt every NFL bridge, every local media bridge and basically having to find people who don't know him to creampuff interviews.
Then I'd be right there with you.
I'm all for continuity but it has to be the right guy. Or even a mediocre guy.
Mangini is awful man. Just get that thought out of your mind.
I agree.
Some of the items don't matter, or can be excused.
But tossing the team into a full nose dive is inexcusable.
I can agree with the handling of the quarterbacks being a fault oh Mangini this year, but I can understand the rest of his moves. With the results of the offseason pickups and draf this past year, a expected no more than a 4 win year this year. Is it a surprise that we are not a good team? I guess most on here were singing "we've got high hopes.". I think if I were a coach building a team that I wanted, I would ditch some players for some picks next year and bring in players that know a system I'm trying to put in place too.
I will find extreme fault in him if Daboll is here next year. That experiment did not work.
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I have to agree with Ytown on this one. I mean I don't really care for EM all that much either, but....#1, #2, #3, #5, #6 is just an opinion topic anyway.
I disagree with your opinion on most of these. Does not make it true either way. Really only #4 and #13 really have much validity. We won't know about the rooks for awhile, and I would replace #8 with the training camp naming starter sooner.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Quote:
I say keep him... I said it a long time ago... Might as well stick with the guy for the long haul.. like 7+ years...
Continuity for the sake of continuity is the worst strategy in the NFL.
We did it with everyone not named Palmer and look at how it turned out? Right back to where we were.
you had a good run Hank.
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It is piling on. But it's on his record. A few of these...ah who cares already. But taken in totality it does mean something.
I remember in the offseason when Mangini demanded that the video room be moved from the second floor to the first floor at a cost of a couple million dollars.
Then many people in the front office were "layed off" due to financial issues.
That's assinine.
I remember when we signed St. Clair. That was a HUGE red flag to me. As in these guys don't know what they're doing.
Just step back for a second and ponder this.....
We were a 3.5 point underdog to a team that was 1-23.
Think about that. For a few minutes.
I'll add another...a fan revolt occured.
Why on earth does anyone think we should keep this guy? Can someone come up with a list of 15 things Mangini has done well?
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you were one of the guys that was predicting 4-6 wins this year PRIOR to the season because we didn't have the talent.
It seems like you are much more up in arms about it now that you were right yet everything is happening as you expected. I don't recall if your prediction was before or after Mangini's acquisitions/draft, but you didn't seem as adamant about his incompetence then as you do now.
You make some strong arguments Held, but you didn't list any positives in there at all. It's only fair that you list the positives with the negatives and see which ones carry more weight. Nobody is perfect, and no one should expect perfection. It always has been and always will be about whether or not the pros outweigh the cons.
I think there is an idea we all better start warming up to ... Mangini just might be the coach next year. That was one of the reasons I started the thread as well as trying to step back and play devil's advocate a bit.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Coming soon in a press conference near you...........
DEAD MAN WALKING
Starring...
Eric Mangini as the character played by Kevin Bacon
Wonder how Mangini would look bald like Bacon was in that movie???
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Yes....you are correct.
I knew that the people that were saying we'd be better than .500 were smokin the good stuff. And I told everyone to ratchet their expectations way down.
Now with that said I didn't expect the continued bad moves. And I expected adequate play from Quinn. Not great but adequate and save 1 game we haven't seen that.
My problem is the continued awful decisions and the fall out from those decisions.
I did not expect the worst team since 1999 and we're there.
And if you want to counterbalance with the positives please do so.
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Quote:
Now with that said I didn't expect the continued bad moves. And I expected adequate play from Quinn. Not great but adequate and save 1 game we haven't seen that.
By your own admission our record is even worse than even you would have imagined due to Quinn's bad play. Are you somehow holding Mangini responsible for this? ... because it certainly seems that way.
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And if you want to counterbalance with the positives please do so.
I don't want to because it may appear that I am supporting Mangini, and that was not the purpose of the thread. If he gets fired tomorrow, I won't lose a wink of sleep over it. But I am curious if we are being short-sighted in his ability to the get the job done, and I was also curious if people could change their opinion on him if he was viewed as a coach only and had little to do with personnel.
We don't know anything to be for certain, but I would say there's a 95% chance - if not more - that Mangini will not be calling the shots next year in regards to personnel ... I think that's a foregone conclusion. But I think it's 50/50 he's still here as coach because I think Lerner really believes in the guy. The guy is as relaxed as I've ever seen any coach on the hotseat be when I watch his pressers ... I mean it's almost like he knows something the rest of us don't. And if he's sold Lerner the bill of goods and he has Lerner believing, maybe we are missing something. Maybe he just needs some help.
I'm just trying to be objective about it. If he were only coaching the team, would we be better off keeping him? Can we view him in a better light if we take the personnel blunders out of the equation? And not all of the personnel moves were bad. K2 and BE were good moves.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Hey Hel, while I think we'd all like to agree with you, It looks like you just threw the most negitive thoughts out there. Fair or not. Like I said, I don't care much for him anyway, but at least come up with valid reasons.
#1 for me would be QB in pre-season.
#2 Using this season as a valuation period & not wanting to up grade until the next draft. I know this is my opinion, but it seems clear by not replacing & filling certain holes, he was satisfied waiting until next year. I, like many others on here thought that with a few tweeks here & there, we would be right in the running. Right or wrong. We need an experienced OC. A veteran WR & decent RT.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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My third one is that he replaced marginal talent with marginal talent.
We all understand the KW and BE issues.
We understand the Mack rationale.
What I don't understand is the RT/RG moves and the linebacking Bowens/Davis McGinnest/Barton change.
The Carey move has no explanation
A lateral move when improvement is needed is not going to move the team forward.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Quote:
A lateral move when improvement is needed is not going to move the team forward.
Charger, what were the other options there?
Keep what we have or what?
No one likes St. Clair ... he's everyone's whipping boy ... and he's earned it to an extent ... but would keeping Shaefer have been the better move at that ridiculous salary? Ironically, Shaefer was everyone's favorite whipping boy last year. If not Shaefer, if not St. Clair, then who?
Playing devil's advocate here, sometimes you can't fix everything at once. Sometimes you purposely take a step back for long term gains.
If I walk away from my house tomorrow because I'm really upside down on it, my credit is going to go to hell, and I'm not going to be able to buy a house again for a few years. But in a few years, I'm going to be right back on track, and I won't be overpaying for a house any longer. Short term suffering for long-term gains.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&a...rc=16&pid=3There were better ones available. Jones signed with Washington and Runyun signed with San Diego. Marvel Smith, Tra Thomas.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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This is a far too important offseason to keep a guy like Mangini. What FA's are going to even consider coming here with all the rumblings about our coach? With 11 picks in this years draft the Browns can't afford to take project players that EM seems to love.
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While there seems that there was some RT's out there I think Danielle said they tried Runyon but he would not come here. Don't know how many more that did not want to come here.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
#2 Using this season as a valuation period & not wanting to up grade until the next draft. I know this is my opinion, but it seems clear by not replacing & filling certain holes, he was satisfied waiting until next year.
I know you already know this but that is exactly what Savage and RAC did in their first year. I specifically remember Savage saying mid-way through the first season that he wished he could fast forward to the end of the season so he could get to work. It makes sense in a complete rebuild to use the first season as an evaluation season.
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I, like many others on here thought that with a few tweeks here & there, we would be right in the running. Right or wrong.
I did too, right or wrong. And that is what puzzled me so much in the beginning of the off season. I wondered why he was making the personnel changes he was making. I thought it was contrary to what I believed he said he would do. I still think it is, but apparently he had his mind set on a complete tear-down from the beginning so it makes sense from that viewpoint.
We don't really know what went on behind the scenes that inspired some of those changes. I still feel that Shaffer at RT was better than what we've trotted out there this season. But could it be that after sitting down with Shaffer that Mangini noticed an attitude from Shaffer that made him think he would not be "team" player for whatever reason? I know that was a complete fabrication on my part because I don't know. But some of these moves may have valid reasons behind them but we just are privy to that kind of thing.
So our right side of our OL sucks. Hadnot is ok if we have a RT. Hank is better but can't refrain from making line calls for the betterment of the team. I think Mangini wants Mack to learn that on his own. What you learn underfire, though it takes longer, you learn good, you learn deep and it becomes instinct rather than intellectual. I see that point. I'd rather we were better and Mack learn a little slower myself but it's a process. 
One thing I don't like about Mangini is the perception I have regarding who plays and who doesn't. Harrison, in my opinion, (and I'm not so high on him as many on here) is worthy of more touches than he gets. But he sits on the bench or is inactive. His whiff on the Ray-Ray sack actually looked to me like he shied away from that contact. That would ... any coach off to no end and I can see that as being a reason he was inactive vs. the Lions. I can also see the ramifications of that whiff as having limited any chance Harrison has of playing any significant role what so ever. Ever. Right or wrong?
I don't know.
Robiskie who was the first 2nd round pick this season was inactive vs. the Lions. Well, we had MoMass and Stuckey and Cribbs. All three caught TD's. How do you argue against that? Maybe Robo could have done the same. Cribbs had one of the highly impressive YAC's that I felt he is capable of all along. But he has to learn to run good routes and catch the ball. He did well that game. So what do you do with Robo?
In one way it looks likes Mangini has an issue with Robo. A vendetta if you will. On the other it looks like Robo is the odd man out at this moment. He can't be awful. I could see him being a possession receiver, a go to guy whereas we have no TE. He could be a J.J. making those 3rd down catches for a 1st if his route running and separation improves. What's Mangini thinking?
I don't know.
Now that I've mentioned vendettas, I'd say that it looks for all the world that Mangini is not only prone to having them, but he seems prone to having them with many under his authority. Is it that way or does it only seem that way? Does Lewis sit because of what he said about practice and Harrison inactive because of whiffing on Ray-Ray or did Mangini really just want to see what Jennings could do with more touches? Is Robo in the doghouse or is there really a reason for him not playing? Did Mangini really play DA because he gave us "the best chance to move the ball" or did he have an issue with Quinn? Why isn't Hank playing when it's obvious to anyone watching the games that the line is better when he is in there? Hall seems to make plays every time he's on the field, why doesn't he get opportunities? Does the list go on? I think it does. Does Mangini carry vandettas and use them against people?
I don't know.
What really happened with Kokinis? Did Mangini really play a part in that or was it all Kokinis' own undoing? Did the whole FO have a problem with Kok as it seems to have been reported that they even wanted him to get counseling.
I don't know.
Will any player or member of the Browns organization ever walk out of a hotel without first making good on their tab they've tallied up while staying there?
No.
If I'm the jury I'm still out on Mangini. I've been guility of automatically believing the worst of him in most instances and that's not completely unwarrented. He has made a lot of mistakes in my opinion. I'm also guilty of a lot of second guessing and using hindsight to vilify him on many instances. Is that a retraction of some of the negative things I've said about him. No.
But it is a statement that I'm not sure I've been completely fair in my judgement of him. Too many times I don't know what has really gone on behind the scenes or what his thinking is on certain matters and I've been quick to take the side of his detractor with too little information available to me to make that sort of decision. I know what I know and I know what I think based on what I know. I also know that I'm not always right and especially so when making judgement while lacking pertinent information.
I'm guilty of being embarrassed by the play of my team and having no where else to turn I've turned on the head coach for the scapegoat when in reality he may not always be guilty of that distinction.
In this post I guess I've tried to see things his way a bit or to at least bring into question some of the things I've thought and instead giving him the benefit of the doubt even though the information is scarce. It's always been me to defend the HC for the most part because there's already enough negativity on the board and most of it, in most seasons, is aimed squarely at the HC when I know it's not always his fault.
But this year I've been so flustered, confused, embarrassed and sick of being humilitated on Sundays that I've been somewhat outspoken against the coach mostly with little to go on other than frustration. So with that in mind I'll try to be a little more objective in judging him until I have enough information to make a valid judegement.
I still think, with all his facial expressions and body language, he looks like a miserable woman on the sidelines.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Short term suffering for long-term gains.
See? That's the main "bottom line" problem (many more with EM and his "moves" and antics)....the short term suffering has been TOO hard and there's even LESS long-term hopefuls playing....
I mean seriously...who are you looking forward watching developing? Maiava? Trusnik? Veikune? Robo? Ventrone?
and don't even try answering Mack or esp.Massa, or you will get my rant on them ...and even IF...2 players are not even close
Players don't respect the man...it's clear as daylight...players have "regressed" (not really, they just play with less "heart", esp. our DBs...Wright was a pretty good tackler all those years...and McD could cover some...now you see both not caring)
oh, and I too can't wait to see EM's "pro arguments" list
Here's a preview and summary:
- he has a plan you can believe in....but it's not visible yet, stupid....Cameron called it "failing forward" in MIA 1-15 season (no joke here)
- he knows about the "process"
- he cut down penalties...10yds/game...that's amazing
- we still have no depth (but see "plan you can believe in" and "process") but he established amazing ST-depth
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I think you're missing the spirit of the thread.
You focus on the personnel side like there's no tomorrow. And you blast Mangini for it ... especially the draft ... and there is a lot of merit to that argument. You know I've agreed with you in the past, and I'm not doing a complete 180 here. I'm just trying to look at this from a different perspective.
The spirit of the post is would we be better off with Mangini as the coach who is no longer calling the shots in the personnel department. Let's concede for a second that Mangini is still the coach but he gets no more drafts. That means he'll have screwed up exactly 1 draft ... and the very first one of his tenure at that. That hardly seems like something we couldn't recover from.
Do we think he can be the coach to lead this team with the right help around him? I ask because again like I said, I think there's a 50/50 chance he's here next year.
I know you believe the guys aren't playing hard for him. Winning would cure that. If Mangini could have squeaked out a couple of wins early in the season, I think guys would have bought in, played harder, showed more passion. Losing is a disease that spreads quickly infecting everyone's morale. And there is such a fine line between losing and winning in the NFL. And confidence plays such a large part. If we got some breaks earlier in the season, would we have seen these guys play differently?
What comes first, believing you can win or winning? It's like a chicken and egg thing. We saw 3 out of 4 losing seasons with the same regime last go around. In each of the three losing seasons, it looked like the guys quit at some point during the season. But that same coach was able to get these guys to believe in season 3 because they won a few games early.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I think that we should stick with Mangini. I don't think his draft or his FA pick-ups were as bad as people make them out to be.
I like that he is instilling discipline. I like that he believes in hard-work and he makes the players practice HARD every week.
I think that given a few years---we will be a good team if we stick with him. Fans just need some patience.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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There is no chance Mangini will be here next year............not 50/50.......not 70/30......not even 90/10.........maybe 99/1...lol.
The moment Lerner mentioned hiring a big time Prez/Czar and giving him control over personnel Mangini was toast. A guy hired to run the organization is going to bring in his people..........aka not Mangini. Lerner wants a big name that has instant credibility. There are going to be alot of vacancies this year in the NFL, and those type of guys (the list of those qualified are very few) aren't going to choose Cleveland unless they can hire/fire who they wish, and bring in their people. The only way Mangini survives is if we hire Acorsi, because EA seems to like him. Unfortunately for Mangini though, I would give you about a 1 percent chance of that happening............thus the 99/1...lol.
We can debate on whether it is right or wrong to fire him, but the fact that he is dead man walking isn't really debatable............his goose has been cooked ever since Lerner stated he wanted someone strong and experienced to lead the organization.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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If the Pittsburg Steelers had decided to bring in
Chanci Stuckey for Hines Ward
Mike Furrey for Santonio Holmes , or
Greg Estandia for whoever they're tight end is now. You Browns fans would be jumping for JOY!
Mangini is the Worst for these moves. Period!
If I contend that a team is as good as its 3rd best WR and 2nd best RB, ...
The 3rd best WR on the Cleveland Browns today is THIN AIR!
If I were the opponents Def, Coord, I could take the week off.
This team is half full of Scab players, and for that Mangini should have been gone some time ago.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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NRTU
I can't help but wonder how bad Mangini will look to the new Czar when he realizes that he only has 11 draft picks and a mountain of money to sped in FA.
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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free agency is going to suck though.. its about getting these draft picks and building our team...
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if this were Madden.. I would have traded Steinbach for atleast a 2nd.. those guys on the right side of the line for like 6th/7th rounders.. and then replace them with the guys in the upcoming draft..
if it were only that easy.. lol.
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Quote:
I think you're missing the spirit of the thread.
You focus on the personnel side like there's no tomorrow.
Ok, for the record (I thought everybody already knew about this): he sucks as a coach too...I really don't see where he's a better coach then GM guy
Is it his 2-deep defense that is so easy to exploit? or the most uncreative and dumb offensive scheme we EVER had to endure? Is it his magical 2nd H adjustment craft, that is letting us overachieve even if overmatched? or his questionable playing time model? Like completely benching Harrison after he ran for over 100yds in our only competitive game all year....who is being critical, loses playing time (btw, he never said it explicitly but you could read his body language in the presser back tehn: he was not amused over Francies behaviour in the locker room incident, the joke, you remember? He didn't mention Francies when asked about good playing rookies in TC, even though all reports and preseason play clearly indicated kid can play....have we seen Francies since?)...who shuts up and is a yes-man (by default, because it's their last and only NFL career chance) gets time: Trusnik, Ventrone, Jennings
Summary: D-scheme is a joke, Offense an even bigger one, decides playing time by boot licking grades
I don't even know how anyone sees what he sees on sundays and can even THINK that EM is a competent coach....also, we now got to know through an article that Belli had to relieve EM from his DC duties in NE because his scheme sucked...he got rewarded with a HC gig, failed...and then got rewarded with even bigger power here.....that's as dumb as it gets
Eric Mangini is the biggest hypocrite walking around in Berea (I'm gettin tired repeating the same spineless actions over and over again, there are plenty of them...who can manage to ignore them is truly blessed)....thankfully, he's walking like a lame duck....keeping him for whatever role would be insane
Still waiting for some factual "pro" arguments, btw...GM "or" coach....just give me some that don't start with "I believe" or "I think I can see the light"
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Mangini must go, IMO...and I base that short answer on his performance with the Browns.
But Mangini may have deeper issues...
It seems that Mangini brings baggage that is very costly to the franchises he works with. It may stem from his spy-gate situation where he is believed to be the person who ratted out Belichick.
How many potential enemies did Mangini make when/if he turned Belichick in to the NFL? Belichick has been around for a long time and many coaches have benefited from working with Belichick.
The Belichick tree has many branches that lead to many NFL franchises.
Honestly, we don't know how damaged Mangini may have been when hired as Browns HC. We do know that the Patriots will not deal with him or the Browns and there could be other teams with HCs or GMs that don't trust Mangini.
Also and most importantly, does Mangini deserve another year based on his team's performance?
As of today, NO, Mangini does not deserve another year with the Browns, IMO.
...mac
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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I know that there are a few folks out there that think,, hey, jimmy johnson had a 1-15 season in Dallas and that's true of course, but Johnson was never a divisive force.. he was building towards something.. that's not the feeling I get with Mangini..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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