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Cribber's gonna get paid,...I have no problem with that. Overpaying a high end draftee SHOULDN'T be a problem,...but it is, BUT IT ain't my problem. I don't write the checks. But, if I HAD the money, I'd probably be just like Steinbrenner.
First pick, third pick, twenty-seventh pick, doesn't matter--these kids and their agents are going to try to bleed you dry based on some emotional roller coaster scale,...and THAT is BS.
I would set the scale by round, by pick,...and then let the kids fight for it while in college,....
Imagine the improved play at that level THEN,....
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1st String
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If Berry or Suh isn't there...... trade back and use the money to sign Josh Cribbs to a lifetime deal. Pick either Dez Bryant, Jonathan Dwyer, a tackle, or C.J. Spiller..... or a QB I guess.
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Why isn't Taylor Mays in a top 10 discussion?
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Quote:
Why isn't Taylor Mays in a top 10 discussion?
Because he's been exposed this year without having tons of talent around him.
Mays is extremely raw and has little coverage skills. Mays is much more of a big hitter than Berry, but Berry is twice the playmaker and has a ton of coverage skills.
you had a good run Hank.
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Quote:
Quote:
Why isn't Taylor Mays in a top 10 discussion?
Because he's been exposed this year without having tons of talent around him.
Mays is extremely raw and has little coverage skills. Mays is much more of a big hitter than Berry, but Berry is twice the playmaker and has a ton of coverage skills.
Polamalu slipped because of the same reason in '03. Different safety - different style. Berry is more the hybrid CB, while Mays is more the hybrid LB. Same game changing Safety abilities, given the correct defense,,,
It was also said that Rey Maualuga was passed because he was a "2 down backer" --- which may be true, but we ended up with...nevermind, don't get me started.
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Please, Rey M is still a 2 down linebacker, but that's besides the point.
While Mays is a hybrid safety, he lacks a lot of natural instincts that makes a playmaking safety successful.
Mays is also a huge risk, which is why no one is likely to take him in the top 10.
you had a good run Hank.
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Whats I'm trying to say is that both are game changing safeties coming into the draft, albeit they need to both fit into the right defensive scheme. Discounting Mays because of suspect coverage skills (which may not be applicable in a primary defensive scheme) is just ignorant.
If memory serves me correct, a guy we used to have named Turner wasn't exactly used to serve in pass coverage but to break up pass plays via zone defensive schemes. He was also a stalwart vs. the run. He turned out pretty good.
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Legend
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Employ your men in accordance with their capabilities,.... 
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Toiby Gerhart and Mark Ingram where who I meant.
Ingram rushed for 1,542 yards this season with 15 rushing touchdowns,
Gerhart's 26 TDs look better.
For the draftniks out there, who are the best RBs in the draft if not those two and where will they go?
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Gerhart lacks top end speed and is a big time upright runner, kinda like a super Vardell. Ingram is a sophomore.
The top RB is CJ Spiller by most people, I think the best RB is Jonathan Dwyer. Either way, there is no real stud in this draft.
you had a good run Hank.
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To not look as lazy, I looked up some mocks to see where Dwyer and Spiller would go. The three I looked at had them at various places in the first round.
Still all three mocks were all over the place in comparison. Same players just in way different orders.........goes to show that at this point who knows.
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Legend
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Ingram is a sophomore, so he cannot declare.
Gerhart could be #1 RB in this class if he declared (IMO) because it is not an overwhelming class at the top, but it is fairly deep. but, there are still some that question his burst....so, always a chance one of the next 2 burner guys goes first.
CJ Spiller, Clemson - Reggie Bush / Steve Slaton style RB....he can pretty much do it all including be a great returner (except run for power). Great returner, a burner out of the backfield, but not going to pound it up the middle much.
Jahvid Best, Cal - another burner, but he has more lower body strength, so the hope is that he is more of a MoJo or Chris Johnson for a little guy, but there are obviously always concerns about backs this small (2nd round at best I would imagine)
Jonathan Dwyer, GaTech - main concerns are that he runs out of the triple option, so he will be more of a project as far as reading holes and his footwork. much better power guy than the others and has decent burst.
Ryan Matthews, Fresno St - my personal favorite RB in this class (Best injury concerns or he would be my favorite)....he might be had in the 3rd round? but probably 2nd. he has done his best against the best competition and has shown both power and speed.
Anthony Dixon, Miss St - here's your best pure power runner.....I think better than Gerhart for the NFL. he is a load and is sort of a Brandon Jacobs style runner.
Other later round guys:
Royster, Scott, Devine, McNight, Murray, JaVarris James....and I'm sure a few others I didn't list here (Blount has been a popular name here on the board, but I wouldn't touch him......I like Tate better as a flyer type guy)
#gmstrong
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Mercer2b nailed it. I should have read his earlier reply in this thread more closely. 
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2nd String
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Quote:
Gerhart lacks top end speed and is a big time upright runner, kinda like a super Vardell.
I call b.s. on this.
You compared Gerhart to a football player from 17 years ago. And why? I assume because they both went to Stanford and are white.
Too many variables to make a blanket statement like this. Consider that
Stanford is five football regimes removed from the time Vardell played. Consider that the game of football has changed greatly since 1992 based on how offenses are ran.
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Mays is not a game changing safety. The biggest knock on him is his lack of playmaking ability.
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Quote:
Quote:
Gerhart lacks top end speed and is a big time upright runner, kinda like a super Vardell.
I call b.s. on this.
You compared Gerhart to a football player from 17 years ago. And why? I assume because they both went to Stanford and are white.
Too many variables to make a blanket statement like this. Consider that
Stanford is five football regimes removed from the time Vardell played. Consider that the game of football has changed greatly since 1992 based on how offenses are ran.
No, it's that both are so physically dominating that he doesn't have to have top end break away speed or vision to dominate. Just like Vardell.
IMO, Gerhart is a FB in the pros, kind of like Jacob Hester or a goalline, short yardage RB and part of a multiplayer rushing attack.
Gerhart is definitely not a feature back, IMO.
you had a good run Hank.
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Just me early guess.. Russell Okung OT or Eric Berry S
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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Quote:
Ingram is a sophomore, so he cannot declare.
Gerhart could be #1 RB in this class if he declared (IMO) because it is not an overwhelming class at the top, but it is fairly deep. but, there are still some that question his burst....so, always a chance one of the next 2 burner guys goes first.
CJ Spiller, Clemson - Reggie Bush / Steve Slaton style RB....he can pretty much do it all including be a great returner (except run for power). Great returner, a burner out of the backfield, but not going to pound it up the middle much.
Jahvid Best, Cal - another burner, but he has more lower body strength, so the hope is that he is more of a MoJo or Chris Johnson for a little guy, but there are obviously always concerns about backs this small (2nd round at best I would imagine)
Jonathan Dwyer, GaTech - main concerns are that he runs out of the triple option, so he will be more of a project as far as reading holes and his footwork. much better power guy than the others and has decent burst.
Ryan Matthews, Fresno St - my personal favorite RB in this class (Best injury concerns or he would be my favorite)....he might be had in the 3rd round? but probably 2nd. he has done his best against the best competition and has shown both power and speed.
Anthony Dixon, Miss St - here's your best pure power runner.....I think better than Gerhart for the NFL. he is a load and is sort of a Brandon Jacobs style runner.
Other later round guys:
Royster, Scott, Devine, McNight, Murray, JaVarris James....and I'm sure a few others I didn't list here (Blount has been a popular name here on the board, but I wouldn't touch him......I like Tate better as a flyer type guy)
Unfortunately, living in Texas has allowed me to watch a few Stanford games this year *L* What I see in Gerhart makes me wonder exactly what he is.
In college, he's a man amongst boys. In the NFL, he's a plodding short-yardage back who isn't fast or quick enough to be a true RB, and isn't quite a good enough blocker to be a true fullback. Now I didn't see any of his receiving ability or route running, which probably means it's unrefined at best.
Now it's easy to assume that the comparisons between Gerhart and Vardell are because they are both white FB-types who played at Stanford. It's actually pure coincidence that's the case because they were essentially the same guy that happened to go to the same school.
Gerhart is listed at 6'1 235, Vardell was listed at 6'1 238.
Vardell ended up not being quick or fast enough to be a true RB. Gerhart's knock is the same. Vardell was considered a little soft to be a true FB. Same goes for Gerhart.
To me, Gerhart looks like a utility/role player who'd find a home as a short-yardage back. I think the unfortunate comparisons aren't going to be Vardell, but rather Ron Dayne, which will cause him to fall to the 3rd round if he came out. I think he'd be best to stay put and hone his blocking and catching.
On a side note, I'd forgotten Ingrim was a Soph. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I still like LeGarrett Blount and would take him with out 2nd round pick
OK, he sucker punched a guy.
If we want choir boys, we need to send scouts to Vienna. If we want to get better, we need to take a top half 1st round talent at the top of the 2nd round.....if he lasts that long.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Blount's laundry list of transgressions is longer than that night.....and, on that night, the sucker punch was not the disturbing thing, it was the aftermath.
#gmstrong
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Toad, I somewhat agree with what you say there, but I think he's got a bit more vision than Tommy did in his day.
he's not quick enough to be a Jerome Bettis type big back, but he's got enough vision that I think he can be a one-cut power back. He'd be a better version of the Chris Brown role in Houston.
I don't think it matters though because I think he's gone before our 3rd pick and I don't think we pick a RB before then.....I'd love Ryan Matthews at that spot if he somehow dropped.
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Quote:
Blount's laundry list of transgressions is longer than that night.....and, on that night, the sucker punch was not the disturbing thing, it was the aftermath.
All I really care about is winning. I don't pay much attention to laundry lists anymore(with-in reason).
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I don't see a chance of him going before the 4th.
On to other stuff: Okung isn't a right tackle and Trent Williams isn't a top 10 pick. Neither are Terrence Cody or Taylor Mays. JMHO
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Quote:
Toad, I somewhat agree with what you say there, but I think he's got a bit more vision than Tommy did in his day.
he's not quick enough to be a Jerome Bettis type big back, but he's got enough vision that I think he can be a one-cut power back. He'd be a better version of the Chris Brown role in Houston.
I don't think it matters though because I think he's gone before our 3rd pick and I don't think we pick a RB before then.....I'd love Ryan Matthews at that spot if he somehow dropped.
I'd have to go back and look, but what kind of OLinemen were being trotted out there back in the T-V days,...??
Not to alliterate, but Toby seems to have a lot of heart,....has he declared ?
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2nd String
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Gerhart lacks top end speed and is a big time upright runner, kinda like a super Vardell.
I call b.s. on this.
You compared Gerhart to a football player from 17 years ago. And why? I assume because they both went to Stanford and are white.
Too many variables to make a blanket statement like this. Consider that
Stanford is five football regimes removed from the time Vardell played. Consider that the game of football has changed greatly since 1992 based on how offenses are ran.
No, it's that both are so physically dominating that he doesn't have to have top end break away speed or vision to dominate. Just like Vardell.
IMO, Gerhart is a FB in the pros, kind of like Jacob Hester or a goalline, short yardage RB and part of a multiplayer rushing attack.
Gerhart is definitely not a feature back, IMO.
Great...so you compared Gerhart to another white running back.
Could anyone offer a comparison to a running back that is not white?
This is a big pet peeve of mine.
Same thing happens in basketball.
Harold Miner was black, bald and could dunk so of course he was the next Michael Jordan.
Keith Van Horn was white, tall and could shoot so he was the next Larry Bird. No one ever considered that maybe Van Horn had game compared to a black player. Same thing with Christian Laettner.
It is lazy on the part of fans, ignorant and gets old.
Every time there is a white running back that comes out, someone on this board or another compares him to Vardell. It gets old.
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How about John Riggins then? Ha ha ha....j/k. I know what you're saying. He'll be like Ron Dayne in the NFL.....good in certain situations but never a every down back. His stats in college we'll get him picked in the 2nd though he should go in the 3rd or 4th.
I'd be excited if we got Gerhart in the 4th (though, we probably have other needs - goodness, where don't we have needs?).
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Jesus, really? Fine, Gerhart is a less talented Brandon Jacobs or in other words, he's TJ Duckett. There happy that I compared him to a black running back? 
you had a good run Hank.
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If it makes you happy I've been comparing Toby Gerhart to Jamal Lewis for a couple weeks now.
And he is not a full back. He has 4.5 speed. And there is no reason to think he can't carry the load in the pros, he carried the ball 25 times a game for Stanford this past year.
I know, "Stanford is not the NFL." But this guy is a hard worker (he goes to freaking Stanford) and definitely has the durability to carry the ball every down.
I would not mind at all if we drafted Toby Gerhart in the 2nd round and made him our starting running back. I just don't see him lasting that long.
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Quote:
Could anyone offer a comparison to a running back that is not white?
I already did.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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One guy I might take a flier on is Brandon Minor, RB Michigan and it wouldn't even have to be that early.....maybe 4th or 5th round? If he could shake the injury bug that's plagued him, he could be a very productive NFL back.
Obviously that's a big if but he's a guy who probably has 1st-2nd round talent but will certainly drop down draft boards because of a few of the nagging injuries he has suffered from.
The one positive in that, if he can stay healthy, is he has very little mileage on his frame.
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This year we don't have to wait as long though. The 1st round is on Thursday instead on Saturday. That means we have to start talking about it sooner.
LMAO!! That was funny bro!
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Quote:
One guy I might take a flier on is Brandon Minor, RB Michigan and it wouldn't even have to be that early.....maybe 4th or 5th round? If he could shake the injury bug that's plagued him, he could be a very productive NFL back.
I disagree...his entire time at UM, I always hoped they would put him in and was mad when he wasn't in the backfield. Because I expected him to come up small on important downs. I do not want him on my team.
(I would take Graham on the Browns anyday though)
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Quote:
Every time there is a white running back that comes out, someone on this board or another compares him to Vardell. It gets old.
Similarly, all the other white running backs drafted, just like Vardell, are no longer in the NFL carrying the rock. Can't say that people aren't being truthful or inaccurate in their evaluations, then. 
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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Quote:
How about John Riggins then? Ha ha ha....j/k. I know what you're saying. He'll be like Ron Dayne in the NFL.....good in certain situations but never a every down back. His stats in college we'll get him picked in the 2nd though he should go in the 3rd or 4th.
I'd be excited if we got Gerhart in the 4th (though, we probably have other needs - goodness, where don't we have needs?).
Why are you bringing Black RBs into this. You must be a racist. 
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum I'd bet we pick third...so who do
we get?
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