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Scott Wright is consider by many as a top scout in the league. He is used and quoted in many medias. And can you produce something saying that Taylor isnt a top 3 prospect? You guys seem adamant to say that a safety isnt valued that high yet fail to produce some validation to this statement.
I didn't agree or disagree about Taylor, I just hate it when people says things like "the only players anybody had ranked ahead of Taylor were...." and then uses one source as their claim. Scott Wright isn't the end all be all in NFL Draft scouting.
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True, but he's the only source I was able to find.
Sean Taylor was an insane prospect. Freak athlete who could actually play football. Eric Berry really isn't in the same sentence, nor the same paragraph.
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True, but he's the only source I was able to find.
Sean Taylor was an insane prospect. Freak athlete who could actually play football. Eric Berry really isn't in the same sentence, nor the same paragraph.
I agree that Berry isn't the 'freak athlete' that Taylor was, however Berry is, imo, a better safety at this same point in their development in the position. Berry understands it better, again imo, what is expected and what to be prepared to do, as Taylor could rely on pure athleticism to make up for misreads or a bad step.
Again, not taking anything away from Taylor, but I do consider Berry an elite player in this draft and worthy of a top 5 pick, of course that is IF he declares (since that hasn't happened officially yet).
I do hope he falls to us somehow, we could use him. Pool is a FA, probably restricted due to the CBA issue, and him only being a 5 year vet (6 year vets become unrestricted). I don't think we resign Pool if we can get Berry, we tender Pool (take the draft pick should someone sign him (which I doubt)), we can cut him with little overall impact, since there won't be a CAP. We can't expect to draft Berry, but the above would allow us to have the safety position covered in almost all situations.
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Eric Berry is a beast!! I agree..
If he doesn't fall to us though, there are good safeties coming out this year that will be available even until the 3rd round.
We need to draft two safeties IMO. Elam is a backup, and Furrey should not even see the field.
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Don't get me wrong, Berry is #2 on my board for the Browns, but my point remains. I don't know of a safety ever going top 5.
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Don't get me wrong, Berry is #2 on my board for the Browns, but my point remains. I don't know of a safety ever going top 5.
I know you have stated Berry as your #2, mine also, after Suh.
To your point, Eric Turner went #2 overall to Cleveland in 1991. Long time ago, I know, but still a worthy pick for #2 overall.
Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital.
Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
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Don't get me wrong, Berry is #2 on my board for the Browns, but my point remains. I don't know of a safety ever going top 5.
Not to be technical, but Taylor went 5 to the skins. Then we took Winslow at 6.
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Sean Taylor was an insane prospect. Freak athlete who could actually play football. Eric Berry really isn't in the same sentence, nor the same paragraph.
No offense, but how old are you?
Did you really watch Sean Taylor in college? I watched a few games his junior season myself, knowing that he'd probably come out early and I was planning for the draft cause we sucked. He was number two on my board behind Gallery (oops). After that I think I wanted Ben Roethlisberger, Deangelo Hall (oops), and Roy Williams (oops). Winslow was an awesome pick, until he had all the injury, accident, infection. I don't really remember much about him seeing as it had to be at least six or seven years ago. He could play FS or SS, and he was good against the run as well as the pass.
Sean Jones, who I wanted if we couldn't get Taylor, was the only other possible FS I saw in the draft (and we got him hahaha).
Anyway, Sean Taylor was a very good football player, but I don't think he was the athlete that you're putting him at. I also don't think that he was that much better of a prospect than Berry is
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True, but he's the only source I was able to find.
Sean Taylor was an insane prospect. Freak athlete who could actually play football. Eric Berry really isn't in the same sentence, nor the same paragraph.
berry isn't nearly the hitter that Taylor was, and Taylor had a rare size/speed combination... But remember what makes berry special is that he's a great corner whose instincts are so good he has to play safety to get all over the field. There hasn't been a safety with these coverage abilities in a long time. Add to the fact his playmaking skills and his ability to tackle and you've got a truly rare player.
Remember, this year there's no true elite wr, qb, or ot prospect. Sure, there's a top-rated one at each position, but clausen is the #1 qb because there's nobody better this year, not because he's great. Same goes for the okie staters. I have a feeling we'd have to trade up to get berry.
I'd be happy to have Joe Haden on the team if berry and mcclain aren't around.
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He was number two on my board behind Gallery (oops). After that I think I wanted Ben Roethlisberger, Deangelo Hall (oops), and Roy Williams (oops).
Don't feel bad. The next year, I really wanted Pacman Jones 
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True, but he's the only source I was able to find.
Sean Taylor was an insane prospect. Freak athlete who could actually play football. Eric Berry really isn't in the same sentence, nor the same paragraph.
Sean Taylor was great in college and on his way to becoming a great pro... but I don't think he was on an island unto himself... he was great but others are just as good... and Berry may be another one of them....
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I agree.
Deep threat gets carried away with his evaluations, and he had to be what...12 when Taylor was playing college ball?
Berry is right up there with the best safety prospects of the last 20 years.
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With Holmgren coming in I fully expect us to run the WCO and a switch to the 4-3. I know some don't see that but he has never been a part of a team that didn't run both.
That said I wouldn't be surprised to see him take a DE with our first pick since we currently don't have anyone to play that position. We also have no real threat at OLB if we were to stick with the 3-4.
I think depending on how late our pick is Derrick Morgan could be a very real possibility. We could also look to solidify the right side of the o-line. Someone like Okung.
I know who people want but I really don't see Suh or Berry being there when we pick.
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Berry is right up there with the best safety prospects of the last 20 years.
I haven't noticed Berry in action myself but this is what I keep hearing.
Hey Peen, or anyone else for that matter but especially Peen, If we pick around 8 or 9 what's the deal with the CB out of Florida? Does he seem like he could be a number 1 in the NFL.
If we're ever going to beat any good team we're going to have to figure out how to stop their QB from throwing the ball all over us (unless the weather conditions are awful, which isn't that unusual). I think the guy's name is Joe Haden. Can he potentially cover number 1 receivers for us?
Otherwise I'd rather have a guy like McClain from Alabama who has a high motor, is intelligent, plays the position well (run and pass), and is a beast.
Last edited by PeteyDangerous; 12/29/09 02:09 PM.
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I've watched every game from Taylor's junior year. Eric Berry is a great prospect, and he is close to the level of Taylor, but he isn't there.
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Berry is right up there with the best safety prospects of the last 20 years.
I haven't noticed Berry in action myself but this is what I keep hearing.
Hey Peen, or anyone else for that matter but especially Peen, If we pick around 8 or 9 what's the deal with the CB out of Florida? Does he seem like he could be a number 1 in the NFL.
If we're ever going to beat any good team we're going to have to figure out how to stop their QB from throwing the ball all over us (unless the weather conditions are awful, which isn't that unusual). I think the guy's name is Joe Haden. Can he potentially cover number 1 receivers for us?
Otherwise I'd rather have a guy like McClain from Alabama who has a high motor, is intelligent, plays the position well (run and pass), and is a beast.
Joe Haden is the name, and 7-8 is right about where i see him slotted in several value boards. He will be a good NFL corner, no doubt...he can cover and should be considered a pro bowl type player for 10 years..
It wouldn't be a bad pick by any means.
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I've watched every game from Taylor's junior year. Eric Berry is a great prospect, and he is close to the level of Taylor, but he isn't there.
We just disagree. He's right there, and when you get to that level, it's next to impossible to say who's better....they are different players. Taylor was bigger, Berry has better ball skills and will return punts with the best of them.
I guess it all depends on what you want.
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I've watched every game from Taylor's junior year. Eric Berry is a great prospect, and he is close to the level of Taylor, but he isn't there.
Fair enough DeepThreat, I'm sorry that I called you out earlier. I just knew that you were young and that you probably had to be watching Sean Taylor when you were 9 or 10. But as long as you've seen it sometime recently.............
But I do dissagree with your assessment of Taylor, the times that I saw him, I thought he was impressive but so was Laron Landry, Michael Huff, and plenty of other college safeties. He hit very hard but wasn't as quick or good against the pass as those two seemed to be in college. Taylor was a little bigger than them though if I'm not mistaken, and he certainly showed he was a better football player. He definitely could come up and level a running back better than both those guys and that's why he was definitely an all-around better player.
I'm not saying that Taylor wasn't a better prospect than those guys, he was. I wanted him. But I just don't see the, put him in a totally different class, way that you seem to hold him.
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I've watched every game from Taylor's junior year. Eric Berry is a great prospect, and he is close to the level of Taylor, but he isn't there.
Not even in the same paragraph. 
BTW Petey, yeah I think Haden, Davis, and McClain are probably the guys we target around 7-9. Not Okung, though.
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Joe Haden is the name, and 7-8 is right about where i see him slotted in several value boards. He will be a good NFL corner, no doubt...he can cover and should be considered a pro bowl type player for 10 years..
U alone know how I feel about corners..and to get a talent like that to start would be good..
There are other safeties in the draft besides Berry and three of them better than Pool/Elam..Pool has to be replaced ,as I said last year ,the concussions are going to end his career.
That said if Berry had May's size,he's be the perfect safety..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 12/29/09 02:51 PM.
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BTW Petey, yeah I think Haden, Davis, and McClain are probably the guys we target around 7-9. Not Okung, though.
Davis out of Rutgers? He's a guy that seemed to come on toward the end of the season with the drafts. I watched/listened to two Rutgers games besides the one they played against UConn and never noticed or remembered him, but that's the way it goes with o-lineman.
I do like the Rutgers coach though and their program is headed in the right direction. That freshman QB did well and they're good at running the ball, so he must have blocked well. I still would like my UConnHuskies to get another shot at them.
Could we find a RT in the 2nd or 3rd round though? I'd rather use that pick on a defensive impact player. We need to create an identity with this defense and a number 1 corner or new safety (which we'll need for sure hopefully Berry is there) or impact linebacker could really make a difference. A safety/linebacker can give us identity and we only have one starting corner, which could cripple us.
If we pick an O-lineman in the 1st, they better be very good because there are some really good defensive options to be had
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I put Davis there as a possibility since our need at RT is so great. From what I've been reading about him since he declared, he should make an excellent RT. Also, I'm not as crazy about the Notre Dame guy as others, and from the looks of things, the Iowhale will be gone when we pick in the second.
I agree, I'd rather have a defensive guy, but those are the guys I think we're most-likely to be looking at.
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I agree Peen. Berry is just a hell of a football player.
The thing that really separates he and Mays, in my opinion, is that he just sees the field so well. While Berry might not have the size or straight line speed that Mays does, he more than makes up for it in anticipation. He seems to be one of those players that sees the play unfold well before it does. His football IQ / feel for the game is uncanny. He just seems to have the 'it' factor that all great safeties have.
Mays is more of a run to the ball type....who relies on his superior athletic ability more than his football smarts. That's not necessarily a bad thing but the style of football Berry plays translates much better to the NFL, in terms of success rate for a draft pick.
I want the athletic, cerebral quarterback of the defense over the 'freak athlete', heat seeking missile (when building a defense). I think Mays can be a good pro but Berry is a player who can be a glue guy (ala a Troy Polamalu).
Also, a few people have talked about Scott Wright's rankings but keep in mind that he has yet to rank junior prospects. Mays is a top 3 SENIOR prospect but I would guess he drops down in the #10-11 range once some of these underclassman start to officially declare. Just a for what it's worth. I would guess Berry grades out much higher than Mays when it's all said and done.
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also, Brady Quinn is Wright's #2-ranked QB he's ever scouted.
just sayin'.
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j/c
Pretty good article on what Kansas City might/could do in the draft. Covers three top prospects, in their opinion (Suh, Okung, Berry).
By Adam Teicher
McClatchy Newspapers
(MCT)
KANSAS CITY, Mo. — The possibilities for the Chiefs will again almost be endless when the draft rolls around in April. They will be able to fortify their offensive line by picking Russell Okung, give Matt Cassel a top wide receiver by selecting Dez Bryant or add a playmaker to the back of their defense by choosing Eric Berry.
The time is almost here for the Chiefs to consider those possibilities. A third straight miserable season comes to a close Sunday when the Chiefs play the Broncos in Denver.
The 3-12 Chiefs look as if they will pick third in next year's NFL draft. They can't get the top pick because there's no way for them to catch the 1-14 Rams, but they could fall below three if they beat the Broncos.
The Rams need a quarterback and may choose one with the first pick. Detroit probably will pick next and the defense-starved Lions can use Nebraska's Ndamukong Suh, whom some scouts call the best defensive-tackle prospect in 20 years.
If Kansas City loses to Denver, the draft then falls to the Chiefs. They could go in any of several directions.
Offensive line might make the most sense. Okung of Oklahoma State is generally considered the best available tackle, though Oklahoma's Trent Williams could be drafted ahead of him.
If the Chiefs select either player, they could move Branden Albert to right tackle or guard.
"He can play left tackle," an NFL scout said of Okung. "He might be better at right tackle but I think he could play left. The guy from Oklahoma, Trent Williams, might be a better athlete. He might be a better natural left tackle.
"I don't know if either one is worthy of being a top-five pick. I don't know if either one is going to be a great player. But offensive tackle is the safest pick, a safer position if you're drafting a guy there. It's a good bet both of those guys will be become good players, at least. They could help your team. I don't think you can go wrong with an offensive lineman. They're both solid."
The Chiefs may not have a true No. 1 wide receiver. In any case, they've been searching for skilled playmakers to help Cassel.
Oklahoma State's Bryant would solve the problem. He's big and more skilled than any wide receiver the Chiefs have had in years.
However, it might be difficult for the Chiefs or any team to select Bryant so high. After a big 2008 season, Bryant played in only three games for the Cowboys this season.
At that point he was suspended by the NCAA for allegedly lying to its investigators, who were looking into his relationship with former NFL player Deion Sanders.
Gambling with a premium pick hardly seems the style of Chiefs general manager Scott Pioli. It wouldn't be a gamble for them to pick Berry, a safety from Tennessee who some scouts believe could do for a defense what Troy Polamalu has done for the Steelers or Ed Reed for the Ravens.
The Chiefs have Mike Brown and Jon McGraw, both 30 or older, starting at safety. Jarrad Page is on injured reserve, and the other Chiefs safeties are developmental prospects at best.
"He's that same kind of caliber," said the NFL scout, comparing Berry to Polamalu and Reed. "He's a special player. He's a playmaker. You can count on him for that. If you need a center fielder back there, he would be a good investment."
___
(c) 2009, The Kansas City Star.
Visit The Star Web edition on the World Wide Web at http://www.kansascity.com.
Distributed by McClatchy-Tribune Information Services.
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Don't get me wrong, Berry is #2 on my board for the Browns, but my point remains. I don't know of a safety ever going top 5.
Taylor went 5th...But you're right...
Safety's that are top notch aren't in the top 5...
At 6 I believe we're looking at Berry, Haden or McClain...S...CB...LB...PERFECT...Possibly McCoy...
IF Berry's there at 6...U TAKE HIM AND RUN...
Go Browns!!!
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They will be able to fortify their offensive line by picking Russell Okung, give Matt Cassel a top wide receiver by selecting Dez Bryant or add a playmaker to the back of their defense by choosing Eric Berry.
I still say NO WAY Berry goes 3...
Top 3 and 5 picks are for PREMIUM POSITIONS...QB/WR/OT/DT/DE...When there are guys rated top 5...They will go long before a Safety...Safeties are not considered PREMIUM POSITION...
Pioli's an IDIOT if he passes on Okung/Suh/McCoy for a Safety...
Go Browns!!!
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I agree, you take him....I do think we will be drafting 7th or 8th...so Berry is probably gone..I go Trent Williams to be the RT.
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Pioli's an IDIOT if he passes on Okung/Suh/McCoy for a Safety...
We'll see, I always thought the same way about ILB and then Jarod Mayo got picked like 8. I understand the thing about LT, but at some point a guy's gotta be good enough no matter what his position is to warrant getting in.
An impact player is an impact player at any position.............
Who do the Chiefs have as their safeties?
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Quote:
Pioli's an IDIOT if he passes on Okung/Suh/McCoy for a Safety...
We'll see, I always thought the same way about ILB and then Jarod Mayo got picked like 8. I understand the thing about LT, but at some point a guy's gotta be good enough no matter what his position is to warrant getting in.
An impact player is an impact player at any position.............
Who do the Chiefs have as their safeties?
Per the article....
The Chiefs have Mike Brown and Jon McGraw, both 30 or older, starting at safety. Jarrad Page is on injured reserve, and the other Chiefs safeties are developmental prospects at best.
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They will be able to fortify their offensive line by picking Russell Okung, give Matt Cassel a top wide receiver by selecting Dez Bryant or add a playmaker to the back of their defense by choosing Eric Berry.
I still say NO WAY Berry goes 3...
Top 3 and 5 picks are for PREMIUM POSITIONS...QB/WR/OT/DT/DE...When there are guys rated top 5...They will go long before a Safety...Safeties are not considered PREMIUM POSITION...
Pioli's an IDIOT if he passes on Okung/Suh/McCoy for a Safety...
Let him be a idiot..I'd love to see Suh drop..
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One thing is for sure, you better be positive the guy is going to be one of (if not the best) player at his position if you're taking a safety at #3.
Why? Last years number 3 pick signed for 5 years, $57 million...$31 million of which was guaranteed.
The year before, Matt Ryan signed for 5 years, $66 million with nearly $35 million guaranteed.
That is SERIOUS coin for a safety. Especially one who hasn't proven anything.
In terms of total salary figures, think about this. Ed reed has a base salary of $3.6 million in the last year of his rookie deal. Polamalu $2.9 million. Both those numbers could potentially be less than the FIRST year base salary for Berry's rookie deal.
The highest base salary in the league (for a safety) is Oshiomogho Atogwe of St Louis at $6.3 million.
A contract for a safety at #3 carries a lot of risk because they're typically not taken that high. Would I take Berry at #3? I personally would but the economics of it could deter a KC squad who hasn't spent a lot of money the past few years.
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Either that writer forgot about FS DaJuan Morgan they drafted in the 3rd round of the ' 08 draft or he must really stink and the writer was including him in this quote "and the other Chiefs safeties are developmental prospects at best.".
#gmstrong
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No way Suh or Berry falls to us...I just don't see it..and thats a GOOD thing Berry is the safer of the two picks between him and Suh..Suh just hasn't impressed me, I don't buy into all the hype. Now that Mike Holmgren has takn over this team, Mike needs to go oout and get "his QB"...I don't mean trading for Hasselbeck or going with Quinn/Anderson..neither Quinn nor Anderson are anytype of answer here. Quote:
Bill Parcells and Phil Simms said it best:
"When you have two Qb, you really don't have a QB at all"
this team needs a real QB...We need to take either Clausen or Bradford IF they are on the board when we pick...I know it sucks drafting a QB.but we need a Qb that can throw a ball with accuracy beyond 10yards, and who actually understands a finnese short passing game (Clausen or Bradford both fit this mold)
our 1st rd pick needs to go to the position we need most...
we may not be in a position to draft a frachise QB this high in the draft for sometime(due to lack of prospects) there are only really two franchise QB in this draft...Clausen and Bradford and I would be happy with either one of them.
Draft either Bradford or Clausen
Trade Quinn and or DA
Bring a veteran to help the rookie QB
The rookie Qb starts on opening day...just like the Falcons did with Matt Ryan and go with it...
if this team passes on a real QB after this mess we have seen this year at QB...they really need their head examined
however, Holmgren is no dummy...if Bradford or Clausen is there when we pick, one of them will be a Brown..Holmgren knows we need a franchise QB....and no Fa norQuinn or Anderson is going to give us that.
draft the Qb will be the first step in Holmgren molding this franchise "in his image"
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
j/c
Question for all you draftniks.
He's young, so I think he'll develop more, but what do you guys think of Jacory Harris from Miami? I've seen a few Miami games and he seems like he has some talent.
Like I said, he still has developing to do, but he's only a soph.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
He's small. That's about as much as I can say about him. I haven't watched him play much. Didn't even watch their game last night.
But he's like 6'4, 195lbs...
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,853
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,853 |
Quote:
I've watched every game from Taylor's junior year. Eric Berry is a great prospect, and he is close to the level of Taylor, but he isn't there.
Are u comparing the NFL Sean Taylor to the College Eric Berry? Apples and Apples, Berry is not as reckless as Sean Taylor, but the guy is the best safety coming out in a long time.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
Me and Deep argue about a lot when it comes to NCAAF, but he's right. Sean Taylor was the better prospect.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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He's young, so I think he'll develop more, but what do you guys think of Jacory Harris from Miami? I've seen a few Miami games and he seems like he has some talent.
I like him..he's inconsistant right now,but his weaknesses can be improved .
He's got a arm and is fairly accurate on deep throws..he needs to improve on his accuracy..but he's got a lot of upside..
He's confident but at times he gets rattled and tries to do too much.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,400
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
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How about the kid from SMU? (recent bowl victory)
Looks very good in the pocket (stands tall and steps up) and appears to have a great arm with a quick release...he is a freshy.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Mid-Season mocks (Part two)..well
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