DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Mid-Season mocks (Part two)..well two b really

I think good news potentially for us at least) is Greg Hardy's stock has been hurt by his injury demons he's been dealing with. He could be had as maybe a 3rd rounder, now. I would gladly take a flyer on him there.

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Do you think there is any chance that Suh is still there when we may pick?

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At this point, I'd put the likelihood of Suh being available for us at less than 1%, but crazier things have happened. I extremely doubt this will though.

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Can McClain play in either a 3-4 or 4-3? Is he OLB or ILB in the NFL?

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Yes, he can. And I think he'd be great in either, though he'd probably be better in a 3-4 due to his size of 6'4" 260. He is probably an ILB in either scheme, though he could play the SAM. He also has a little bit of pass rushing ability and had 4 sacks this year playing inside in a 3-4.

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If we are forced to "reach" at our pick, at what position is the best reach?

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Really kind of a tricky position, especially since I am a strict advocate of BPA (at least in the case of the Browns). I would have to say ILB, purely because of McClain. He would, in all likelihood, be considered a reach in the top 5 because of his position. But considering I think he's the 4th best player in the draft, he wouldn't be IMO. But again, I'm never a fan of reaching.

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Is Haden a better pick than Berry?

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Personally, I don't think so at all. I have several reasons for this. One, I think Berry is a better safety than Haden is corner. Two, I value the safety position more than corner. Three, I think Berry would be a better corner than Haden. I think that Haden is a legitimate top 10 pick, but IMO Berry is the draft's 3rd best player.

I too would love to have a big ugly, on either side of the ball, but if I'm in charge, I take BPA all the way, regardless of position, with the only exception a tackle who I don't think can play on the right side (Okung). I don't care if it's a QB, WR, OT, DT, or CB; I want the best player.

I hope I did a good job of answering your questions. If you continue to be confused, your always friendly DeepThreat is here to help.

You're right. In my post, I didn't once account for a possible schematic change. If the Browns run a 4-3 next year, my board changes to this:

1. Suh
2. McCoy
3. Berry
4. McClain
5. Derrick Morgan DE Georgia Tech (he gets the description since I haven't really talked about him)

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Your also assuming that we still play a 34 after Tuesday, and that's a pretty big assumption at this point.

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Huge ASSumption right now...And quite frankly I almost HOPE we go to a 4-3...Simply because for 10 damn years the 3-4 hasn't worked...We will never win a damn thing until we can STOP THE RUN...

Rogers is an obvious STUD in a 4-3...Does Williams stick???...Who knows...I think McCoy goes 3 to KC right now...

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I love Berry, but I am very leery of taking a perimeter position that high. I won't be mad if we select him, but I will be kind of shocked if we select a safety that high with all of the interior needs we have.

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We're at 6 right now...You're assuming McCoy will be there cause we both know for sure Suh won't be...And u already said Okung is no RT...So what else is left INTERIOR wise???...Nothing...And Deep...If u even WHISPER the name Iupati I'm gonna smack you...

I see three real possibilities here at 6...McCoy being the least likely to be there...

1) McCoy
2) Berry
3) McClain

And guess what...ALL 3 are bonafide whether we stay 3-4 or switch...That's 3 SOLID picks at 6...We CANNOT GO LOWER than 6 or we're gonna get screwed outta the top talent in this draft...Which means we need to LOSE today...Yep...LOSE...

Now comes the good one...

QUARTERBACK...

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I will also not be surprise if we look HARD at either Claussen or Bradford.

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I made an "Emotionally Deranged" comment weeks ago that Quinn will never be anything but a BACK-UP QB in the NFL...For what it's worth I DID NOT MEAN THAT...

This kid had NO Running Game...NO WR's worth didly...NO TE...And a Right Side of a Line that literally STUNK...To go along with a ROOK at Center and an even GREENER ROOK as a Play Caller...

That equates to ZERO SUCCESS CHANCE...

Holmgren can do what he wants at QB...But Quinn could be given the reigns...

There is a QB in this draft that I WANT NUTTIN' TO DO WITH...Even tho all these WCO Experts are literally eatin the chumps shorts...His name is??????????

Sam Bradford...................................WHY???

I don't care how accurate the kid is...The FACT is that Footwork plays a MAJOR role in setting up accuracy...THIS KID HAS NO FOOTWORK...U don't develop footwork when u take virtually every snap in the GUN...

Mike....STAY AS FAR AWAY FROM BRADFORD AS U POSSIBLY CAN!!!!!...

If u MUST have a QB for this new offense...PLEASE MAKE IT CLAUSEN...

There's been TWO QB's the past 10 years that I actually liked coming out...One was Rogers...The other is Rivers...Clausen is the 3rd...I don't care if he's from Dame...He's got EVERYTHING U WANT IN A SIGNAL CALLER...And has plenty of arm...

And guess what TOAD...He's every bit as accurate as Bradford...And has FOOTWORK...

IF...And this is a HUGE IF...IF we must go QB to satisfy Holmgren...It MUST be Clausen...

PLEASE MIKE...DO NOT let Bradford even SEE Hopkins International Airport...I'm BEGGIN' You...

Here's an "Opinion" of Clausen that I just happen to agree with...

Jimmy Clausen is unquestionably the top quarterback prospect in this draft. He threw for 28 touchdowns and only four picks on an 8.8 YPA and a 68.0 completion percentage this year. He's superior to Sam Bradford because he has a bigger arm and has spent three years in a West Coast offense.

Bradford, on the other hand, is coming out of a shotgun spread offense and just had shoulder surgery. His arm strength is also very questionable. Clausen is a much better fit for St. Louis' offense than Bradford is.

And another piece for U "Hate Damers"...

Posted Dec. 29, 2009

Junior Quarterbacks - Jimmy Clausen

I bet you never thought in the past month that Notre Dame junior quarterback Jimmy Clausen is one of the most underappreciated quarterback prospects in the history of the NFL Draft. But after reading this blog entry, you just might change your mind.

First, I am going to tell you why you might not like Clausen, and let's be real here, there is a lot of bias against him. Some criticism is warranted, but a lot isn't.

Notre Dame is the most hated football program in America, period. They are the Duke of the gridiron. Automatically, you hate Clausen because he went to Notre Dame, just like you hated J.J. Reddick because he went to Duke. If you want to make an analysis as objective and professional as possible, then you need to cut the crap and get over the Notre Dame hate if you have it - and a lot of that is out there. Think about it: if you put Sanchez on Notre Dame and Jimmy Clausen at USC, then Sanchez is the hated prospect and Clausen is the beloved underclassman.

Maybe you don't like Clausen because of the blond, spiky hair, or the limo appearance he had when he was a senior in high school to declare for Notre Dame. These aren't "low profile" characteristics and automatically, you might have disliked him.

For whatever reasons you're down on Clausen, please put them in the back seat and have an open mind when reading this blog entry.

Clausen just amassed one of the most impressive junior seasons among pro-style quarterbacks in the past 10-20 years.

Let's remember that Clausen had a very bad offensive line this year for Notre Dame. Sure, he had good weapons, but the running game was poor and receivers Michael Floyd and Kyle Rudolph missed significant action (eight games missed total between them).

When Floyd went out, Clausen stepped up. With a bum turf toe, he didn't play at all in the second half and led the team to a game-winning drive to beat Purdue. The following week, he posted 422 passing yards against Washington. Over the next three games (USC, Boston College, Washinton State), Clausen threw for 774 yards, six touchdowns and zero interceptions.

Clausen is a huge reason for Golden Tate's big season as well. While Tate is a talented player, he couldn't have done it without Clausen's extremely high level of accuracy.

Numerous times, Clausen played through pain this season. He led his team in games in crunch time, and was without a doubt the most clutch quarterback in the nation this year.

Criticizing Clausen because he had talent around him is a very poor argument. It isn't like Clausen was putting up just above average statistics - he dominated opponents. He showed a very high football IQ and rarely forced the ball in coverage. Did he throw some balls up for grabs? Sure, but Peyton Manning does the same thing occasionally to Reggie Wayne. Drew Brees lofts the ball up for Marques Colston in the red zone. Philip Rivers relies on Vincent Jackson. Quarterbacks can't do it all by themselves.

One statistic that can't be discussed enough is Clausen's 7:1 touchdown-intercpetion ratio, which is absolutely unheard of among junior quarterbacks in pro-style offenses. This is just ridiculous. It doesn't happen and it isn't supposed to happen. Give the man some credit where credit is due.

The bottom line is Clausen certainly needs to be looked at as one of, if not the most polished junior quarterback prospect in the history of the NFL Draft. I didn't say the BEST junior quarterback prospects because he doesn't have the physical skill, but he is certainly one of the most NFL-ready.

Analyze the statistics of a select group of quarterbacks in the spreadsheet below; all of these stats were taken from each quarterback's junior season. Aside from Matthew Stafford (I'm including him because I had him No. 1 overall on my big board), these highly thought-of quarterbacks that have gone on to outstanding success in the NFL.

Clausen simply blows everyone out of the water. His touchdown-interception ratio puts Peyton Manning's 1996 season to shame. His completion percentage is a good five points ahead of Philip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger. Clausen threw six less interceptions than EVERYONE.

Clausen's ranks across the board: 1st, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st.

I just don't understand how someone like Todd McShay can say Clausen is a second-round talent when you consider how his statistics compare to some of the NFL's current greats.

I'm not a fan of just analyzing statistics, and my evaluation of Clausen really doesn't have very much to do with them. All I am doing is putting his season into perspective.

The perspective proves that Clausen is worthy of much more respect than I feel like he is getting at the moment. We will probably never see a better junior season ever again. Charlie Weis leaving the college game means that there is one less West Coast offense in the NCAA.

Over the next 10 years, I fear that nearly all snaps are going to be taken out of shotgun and NFL front offices are going to be throwing darts and evaluating prospects based on physical tools only since the schemes are so easy to execute.

Clausen isn't executing an easy scheme - he is executing the toughest scheme on the national stage. Every week the camera is on him, and every week he delivered. If Notre Dame's defense was just above average, this team would have won 10 games.

If you don't like Clausen because he is cocky, then that is fine. I just hope you are consistent and also say Rivers is a bad NFL quarterback because he is cocky - because a slightly confident leader can't win games in the NFL, right?

Maybe if Philip Rivers went to Notre Dame...

http://walterfootball.com/mattblog091229.php

so is Charlie Weis coming to Cleveland or not? lol.

One thing about ND hacks, If their QB completes a couple of passes he automaticly becomes the best QB ever. Like if ND wins 2 games in a row they are the best team in the country. Clousen sucks. We have all seen him every week because for some reason network TV thinks we want towatch them lose to Conn or Navy.

To be honest I doubt we have a shot at either QB. It appears that the Redskins and St Louis will be picking before us and at this point I think Clausen and Bradford will go to those teams.

At least after today we will have a general idea where we will be picking. At this point pre-draft hype I would like acquire either Bradford, Berry, Suh, or McCoy(if we go 4-3)

j/c

Early update on draft position.

1-STL
2-Detroit
3,4 - up for grabs between KC and TB, TB has already lost and will get #3 if KC wins, if KC loses then they get #3.
5,6,7 - Was, Seattle, and CLEVELAND in contention.
-IF Was loses they get #4, AND if Seattle loses they get #6, we get #7
-IF Was loses they get #4, IF Sea wins then we get #6.

So right now we are picking EITHER #6 or #7.

If WAS and SEA win, do we pick 5th or 6th?

So it appears that no matter what we have a top 10 pick?

Joey Votto, and Jay Bruce is on third.

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IF...And this is a HUGE IF...IF we must go QB to satisfy Holmgren...It MUST be Clause...

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Why the hell you got to make me agree with Toad for huh??? :


Bradford is the most accurate QB to come out in a LONG time. Your concerns about his footwork are legitimate no doubt...........so is the injury history.

However, what Toad is saying about Claussen's attitude is true as well......hell even Diam agreed the kid was immature in a PM conversation me and him had. He is also no where NEAR as accurate as Bradford........not even close......but that speaks more to SB being insanely accurate than Claussen being DA..lol.

If both were available (and I doubt either are) then I would take SB over JC any day of the week. Foot work can be taught and developed............being an ass is usually something you are until the day you die.

Browns will most likely pick 7th as Seattle will lose to Tennessee and has a lower oppoenents win %

1 minute to go and it looks like indeed Seattle will lose. We pick 7th.

There's a chance Buffalo and Cleveland tie including opponents winning % which could come down to a coin flip....

will post update in a bit

Bufflao is (6-10), Cleveland is (5-11).

good point...forgot they won...duh

First 13 slots are SET with no 'tie-breaking' coin flip necessary.

1-St. Louis
2-Detroit
3-Tampa Bay
4-Washington
5-Kansas City
6-Seattle
7-CLEVELAND
8-Oakland
9-Buffalo
10-Chicago
11-Jacksonville
12-Miami
13-San Francisco

Jets with a loss gets #14, with a win they go to #20.

So the picks from 14 to 20 (Jets either 14 or 20 depending on tonights score).

14/15-Denver
15/16-NY Giants
16/17/18-Tennessee ***(Ten and Carolina will have to do a coin flip no matter tonights game)
16/17/18-Carolina ***(Ten and Carolina will have to do a coin flip no matter tonights game)
18/19-Houston
19/20-Atlanta



The rest of the picks are:
21-Baltimore
22-Pittsburgh
23-New England
24-Cincinnati - Would pick #24 with a loss, #28 with a win.
25-Arizona
26-Green Bay
27-Philly
28-Dallas
29-Minnesota
30-San Diego
31-New Orleans
32-Indy

Of course 31 & 32 will change depending on the Super Bowl participants and result.


thanks wojo

I think Washington picks before KC b/c of SOS

Correct, Was is #4, KC #5,


Also, cincy could move up/down a bit as well depending on tonights game.

Well we start in 7th positon, wonder were we will end-up when we actually select our fist player....

Well from the looks of things, Suh will be gone by the time we pick.

I think we will wind up with one of these 4 players(in order of which player I want most to least)

1. Eric Berry
2. Joe Haden
3. Rolando McClain
4. Dez Bryant

If we switch to a 4-3, then McCoy becomes our pick if he's still on the board. I'm fine with any one of those 5 guys, they all have very high playmaker potential.

Adam Schefter said that KC and Washington will flip a coin.

I don't agree with Mr. Shefter;

KC has a 0.518 opponent winning % right now (goes to 0.516 with a Jet win, goes to 0.520 with a Cincy win)
Was has a 0.492 opponent winning % that will not change based on the last game.

Good point, I would say it is a safe bet that Berry is squarely in their sights. We will have to go to our 3rd/4th/5th options, making for a good few months of debate (or should it be deadbate).


After Suh and Berry I like Gerald McCoy, Haden, Anthony Davis, and long-shot Dez Bryant (long-shot as our pick, not in who I want us to take). QB is another option, but I am not in favor of touching one @ pick #7.

Since the top ten picks are pretty much set here goes:

1-St. Louis
Jimmah Clausen- I think he will get hyped, is a golden domer, and is a fairly good prospect to bad he's a tool.
2-Detroit
Russell Okung- They could go Suh here but I really think they invested into the Offensive side of the ball in Stafford and Pettigrew. They should protect their 70mill dollar man with a LT.
3-Tampa Bay
N. Suh- They drafted their QB last year and they get a new version of Warren Sapp.
4-Washington
Sam Bradford- There was report Snider and Cerrato(old VP) was scouting Qbs together. They tried to acquire Cutler and it is no secret Campell is not in style. Without Clausen on the board they go with another QB.
5-Kansas City
Terrance Cody- I know this is a bit of a shocker but so was Tyson Jackson. One thing that everyone knows about 3-4 is that you need a NT and it was clear that KC didn't have a NT. Cody is the best pure NT prospect in the draft and if you remember the patriots had 3 first round picks on their d-line (Seymour, Wilfork, Warren).
6-Seattle
G. McCoy- If a top QB prospect was available I think they would draft the QB. However, because no QB prospect is left they go with the BPA and along with Curry they start to build a young talented defense.
7-CLEVELAND
Eric Berry- Without any QB's left the browns help their secondary. Pool may have had his career ended this year and Elam needs replaced. Hopefully Berry becomes our version of Ed Reed. The only other team I think could go with Berry is KC. If Berry is gone I look for us to look at Taylor Mays, R. McClain, or Joe Haden,

I would switch around the QB's, and I think Detroit will probably take Suh but it is plausible. However, I really think Seattle would take Berry there. Their secondary is awful.

No way Cody goes that high. They can get him in the 2nd round. I'd guess KC picks the best available LT to protect Cassel, otherwise they're going Haden or Berry. JMO

He probably won't go that high, but at this point last year, Tyson Jackson was valued the exact same way. Don't underestimate Bill Pioli. With a good combine and offseason, Cody could very well work his way up to that high.

With Suh pretty much a pipe dream now, I've updated my sig to reflect my wish to Mike Holmgren.