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I like him too. If I was a player, I'd want to play for a guy like him. But the numbers don't lie. All that aside, if Holmgren comes here, we probably go to a 4-3 D, and Ryan is a 3-4 guru.
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I don't care if it's Holmgren, Cowher, or Jesus H. Christ: I don't want anybody to be both head coach and GM!
Who wouldnt want Jesus as a HC and GM? The dude can heal his own players on the sidelines and Lerner would save boocoo bucks on bread and wine. 
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Just a few general ramblings .....
At the beginning of the season, the Browns were picked to be the worst team in the NFL. Our talent was rated, by numerous national writers, (and local ones as well) as worst in the NFL.
Let's just say that we win our last 2 games, and finish out at 5-11. Let's say that we end the year on a 4 game winning streak. What happens then?
I would look at that as some type of vindication of Mangini and his staff ..... and the job they are doing. This team has moved numerous starters out for a variety of reasons .... and moved younger players in. They have replaced, exchanged, and resorted the lineups. They are starting to play better .. the team appears to "get it" ..... and further, they seem to believe in the coaches.
I know that many will give Mangini absolutely no credit because they don't like his personality .... but personally, I think the man has done a pretty good job given the crap he inherited. He's obviously not been perfect ...... but look at some of the other teams that started the year in a position similar to the Browns.
Chiefs: 3-11.
Bucs: 1-12
Raiders:4-9
Lions: 2-12
Rams: 1-13
I would take our team over any of these guys.
Look at teams like Carolina, Chicago, Washington, The Giants, Tennessee, Miami, the Jets, the Steelers ...... these are all teams who have come nowhere near playing to expectations.
1 could argue that Mangini has done a better job coaching an undertalented team than any of these other teams' coaches have with similar or more talent.
Mangini seems to want players to earn their way onto the playing field. I don't have a problem with that. Sometimes players are rotated in an attempt to see what we have if 1 guy isn't getting the job done (ala Quinn and Anderson) ..... and again, I don't have a problem with that. Football is interconnected. Sometimes you need to see a different player at a position to determine the capabilities of the players around him.
In short ..... I don't think that any coach could have come in here and done a better overall job with the team we have/had in place. Given that .... I just don't see how Mangini could be dumped if he manages 4 or 5 wins out of this group.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Here's my question:
Does Holmgren deserve the right to fire Mangini simply because he wants his own system in here? Regardless of how we end up or should he keep him because of the signs of life?
I don't know...I'd say Holmgren does deserve that right, but Mangini IS making it a bit harder to fire him. Personally, I still don't trust Mangini enough to keep him here but I guess I could listen to the other possibilities.
you had a good run Hank.
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I suppose it will be what it will be. Most everyone has called for his head and to get this organization righted and now it seems Lerner will attempt to make it happen. I don't think he'll sway the other way now that Mangni has pulled off two in a row and the fans say, "hey wait a minute".
The wheels are in motion.
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Does Holmgren deserve the right to fire Mangini simply because he wants his own system in here?
The short answer is yes.. he's earned it.
Also, if he truly was offered the top job and if he accepts it, he will be tasked with turning this franchise around.. he should be given the right and freedom to do whatever he deems necessary.. which could include firing Mangini or even retaining him.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Allow me to preface my remarks withtwo things;
I hated the Mangini hire.Hated maynot be a strong enoung word.
Between hi-school ball and hunting,I've not had mch opportunity to watch the Browns.
comparing the prefomances these past two weeks with what happened earlier in the year,the only conclusion a sane person could make is that this team is getting good coaching.The talent has gotten worse,the play has gotten better.
I am impressed with Daboll.Not nessecarily his play calling,but the design of the plays.With some seasoning,he may be alright.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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I'm watching the Seahawks-Bucs game and they just said a quote from someone in Seattle management saying "Holmgren is no longer a candidate" for their job and Holmgren would probably end up in cleveland.
Yeah Baby!
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Update someone named Tyler Wicke quoted as saying the GM/President job was in fact offered to Holmgren and he turned it down. Time for both parties to move on, we're done, he was further quoted as saying.
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Update someone named Tyler Wicke quoted as saying the GM/President job was in fact offered to Holmgren and he turned it down. Time for both parties to move on, we're done, he was further quoted as saying.
Wait, help me understand.. are you saying that Tyler Wicke (whoever he is) said that Holmgren was offered the GM/President of the Seahawks and he turned it down?
WOW..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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That's what the sideline babe said, she had talked to him personally, he was apparently part of the Seahawks.
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So this Leiweke guy is something above President then....I just checked, he's the CEO which would mean Holmgren would have to report to him rather than Paul Allen..
With us, he'd report directly to Lerner.. That has gotta be the difference... at least one of the differences.... money may be another, freedom to run the show might be the other.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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In short ..... I don't think that any coach could have come in here and done a better overall job with the team we have/had in place. Given that .... I just don't see how Mangini could be dumped if he manages 4 or 5 wins out of this group.
From a Q & A with Holmgren ...
Q: Let's talk about that franchise and start with guy walking the sidelines, Eric Mangini. What is your take on him?
A: It would be unfair to talk too much about that. I like Eric Mangini, good coach, bright guy, works hard at his job and we have to see. Anytime you go in and are responsibility for who that person is, in fairness to everybody, you better give everyone a chance. This is his first year in Cleveland, I supposed there has been situations, Bill Parcells in Miami made a coaching change. Having been a coach for so many years, I'd be the first one to tell you that's not fair. Tough decisions aren't fair. I'd do everything in my power it is the right one.
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I like him too. If I was a player, I'd want to play for a guy like him. But the numbers don't lie. All that aside, if Holmgren comes here, we probably go to a 4-3 D, and Ryan is a 3-4 guru.
I agree, I really like the guys fire but you can't escape the fact those numbers do not lie. Also you have to wonder if he'll just move on to work with his brother anyway?
#GMSTRONG
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Also you have to wonder if he'll just move on to work with his brother anyway?
Well he is under contract........... may be he's growing a bond with these guys! Rex Ryan used to run some 4-3-ish in Baltimore with Suggs at DE often. May be Rob Ryan has it in him too.
I don't care what the stats say, our team finally gets pressure on the QB. Our secondary is awful, but I do like the fact that we manage to get to the QB. This is something we don't manage to do in our teams of recent past
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Still would like to see what Ryan could do with a few more pieces to the puzzle.. Talented ones....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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the weak links are our safeties..
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the weak links are our safeties..
and corners. Wright is not starting quality either, though, nobody wants to admit it. McDonald won't be a Brown next year.
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Wright is starting material.
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Ignore him............he's either a troll or has the lowest football IQ this board has ever seen, and that's saying something...lol.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Quote:
Quote:
Also you have to wonder if he'll just move on to work with his brother anyway?
Well he is under contract........... may be he's growing a bond with these guys! Rex Ryan used to run some 4-3-ish in Baltimore with Suggs at DE often. May be Rob Ryan has it in him too.
I don't care what the stats say, our team finally gets pressure on the QB. Our secondary is awful, but I do like the fact that we manage to get to the QB. This is something we don't manage to do in our teams of recent past
His dad did perfect the 4-6 defense. 85 Bears, there was simply none better.
#GMSTRONG
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I think that Holmgren comes in and evaluates Mangini for a season under his watch and gives him a chance. There is alot wrong with this football team which doesnt have anything to do with coaching right now.
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They had some hellacious people there,...I used to be able to name all eleven starters but Father Time is after me,...
Steve McMichael
Otis Wilson
Mike Singletary
Shaun Gayle ? not sure
Doug Plank ? not sure
Fridge
Wilbur Marshall
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Quote:
They had some hellacious people there,...I used to be able to name all eleven starters but Father Time is after me,...
Steve McMichael
Otis Wilson
Mike Singletary
Shaun Gayle ? not sure
Doug Plank ? not sure
Fridge
Wilbur Marshall
Yes they did and it was those same players who credited it all to Ryan and carried him off on their shoulders after the Super Bowl win. The offense guys carried Ditka off too but I still think that's the only time a D coordinator was carried off the field by his team.
#GMSTRONG
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I don't care if it's Holmgren, Cowher, or Jesus H. Christ: I don't want anybody to be both head coach and GM!
This....if we hire Holmgren to do everything than nothing really changes exept that MH has more football knowledge than EM.....but I can't remember a hierarchy like this being successful ever in this league?
If Holmgren gets hired to do all those jobs...then Lerner has learned absolutely nothing...after all he is the biggest problem and I wouldn't be surprised if he drops this decision yet again
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Why does everybody think MH will coach? Randy and he never even spoke about the HC position.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Quote:
Quote:
They had some hellacious people there,...I used to be able to name all eleven starters but Father Time is after me,...
Steve McMichael
Otis Wilson
Mike Singletary
Shaun Gayle ? not sure
Doug Plank ? not sure
Fridge
Wilbur Marshall
Yes they did and it was those same players who credited it all to Ryan and carried him off on their shoulders after the Super Bowl win. The offense guys carried Ditka off too but I still think that's the only time a D coordinator was carried off the field by his team.
Just a little update -- I forgot Dave Duerson, Richard Dent, Dan Hampton, Gary Fencik, Leslie Frazier and Mike Richardson.
Gayle played as a sub, Plank was gone in 83, but his jersey number is who the '46' is named after,...
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Ignore him............he's either a troll or has the lowest football IQ this board has ever seen, and that's saying something...lol.
No, he's just EM's son or some kind of relative....it's pretty evident.
Hey Spoon: as for Lerner having a "problem" now....here's the one he should have: 3-11....even winning out should not save him...5-11 is still bad and winning some games against teams playing for nothing and winning them on 1 man's shoulder no less (Cribbs) has absolutely NOTHING to do with coaching....Cribbs is Cribbs and without him and his "special plays" this team would have lost at least 2 of the 3 they've won...we are not competitive on O and/or D and that's on the coaches, that's where most of HIS players play after all...
who saved the bacon today? Cribbs and Harrison...not EM guys....Mangini should be fired for the fact alone that he had Harrison inactive after the CIN game (our only 100yd-RB game to that date)...probably because of Harrison's "if I would say what I really think" comment.....now that his ass is on fire he pulls him out again....what a spineless or for having Benard and Moore on the PS for weeks while playing bums...how can anyone trust this man's evaluations?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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His dad did perfect the 4-6 defense. 85 Bears, there was simply none better.
Even then, it took talented players...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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who saved the bacon today? Cribbs and Harrison...not EM guys....Mangini should be fired for the fact alone that he had Harrison inactive after the CIN game (our only 100yd-RB game to that date)...probably because of Harrison's "if I would say what I really think" comment.....now that his ass is on fire he pulls him out again....what a spineless or for having Benard and Moore on the PS for weeks while playing bums...how can anyone trust this man's evaluations?
RAC pulled the same crap. You've got to wonder what's going on behind the scenes with some of these situations. A lot of them seem baffling to us fans, and maybe it's nothing more than ego. But what I want to see from a coach is the same thing I want to see from a player ... maturation. I don't expect perfection ... I don't expect them to make the right decision 100% of the time ... but I do expect them to learn from their mistakes. The smart ones usually do. I'd like to see Mangini get another year. I think this year has been humbling for him. That's a good way to take the ego down a notch or two. He's smart enough to know that if he got another year, it better be a good one.
Take away the player personnel aspect and just let him coach. I'd like to see how that would work. But just a side note, he may have had Bernard and Moore on the PS, but he also brought them here.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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But what I want to see from a coach is the same thing I want to see from a player ... maturation. I don't expect perfection ... I don't expect them to make the right decision 100% of the time ... but I do expect them to learn from their mistakes. The smart ones usually do. I'd like to see Mangini get another year. I think this year has been humbling for him. That's a good way to take the ego down a notch or two. He's smart enough to know that if he got another year, it better be a good one.
Take away the player personnel aspect and just let him coach. I'd like to see how that would work. But just a side note, he may have had Bernard and Moore on the PS, but he also brought them here.
With all due respect Rish....but that's exactly what guys around here said about him after the Jets experience...that he would be humbled, learned from experience etc.
I don't buy it....EM acts like a spoiled kid (funny since he's teaching/preaching the opposite sytle)....as long as he feels no parents are around he acts like a jerk and let's everybody know he's the boss (benching Harrison, Fraley depsite better play than his guys) and doesn't talk to anybody, when he gets reproved he acts and talks like the perfect neighbourhood child confessing to the priest (his setup PR-interviews) and all of a sudden revises his "decisions"....guy has some serious Geroge W in him, lol
guy is a hypocrite, there' s enough proof over his career for this and he should not be around next year in any form or fashion....I don't want power struggles because of this guy next season....and I have no problem losing his "coaching" (does anyone care to assess it? you know, because sucks there too....his "not to loose" style D has almost allowed KC to come back in 40secs to win the game and numerous other occasions when we needed a D stand)
What do you guys see in him? he should start a sect or somehting...this guy can somehow really sell himself and polarize people..he'd be perfect for a head guru in a sect....maybe some amish-style "Process of hard working people"-sect where all his underlings work hard for him to have a luxurious life (hey it's a sect after all)...seriously....what do you see? improvement? where? I see Cribbs winning the games and the same deficiencies as in earlier weeks...we are just playing much weaker teams who have a boatload of their own problems...I don't see much "real" improvement...and even IF...it's improvement from totally rubbish to bad...
so what? that can't be seriously be you guy's benchmark? He "managed" to lower expectations with EVERY game...and now should be praised for getting back to where he took over? huh? I don't get it 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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What is the chance of a guy who was the closest to Walsh on his tree, using a Belichick/Parcells tree guy?
They are two completely different football philosophies.
I'm not saying it is impossible, but it seems like an extremely long shot.
Mike Holmgren is a WCO guy true and true. He's not going to change from a philosophy that he believes in, that has allowed him to visit the Super Bowl 6 times. EM may plead with him that he can go WCO, but there still is a huge difference in the way Holmgren, (and Walsh did for that matter) treat/handle players. It doesn't make sense to me, that Holmgren would keep EM. I just don't see it.
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• Turning the old line from "The Godfather'' on its head, sounds to me like the Seahawks made Mike Holmgren an offer they were pretty sure he'd refuse. According to the sources I talked to, Seattle really had no interest in vesting anyone with full-fledged football czar powers. But the Seahawks knew that their former head coach wanted something similar to the total control he could get in Cleveland by just saying yes to the desperate Browns. In Seattle, Holmgren might have run the team's football operations, but he still would have reported to Seahawks CEO Tod Leiweke, owner Paul Allen's man at the top of the team's flow chart, and it likely would have been made clear to him that he had to keep head coach Jim Mora in place. Thus, the Seahawks job would have been something less than total control for Holmgren, and when you factor in that Cleveland is willing to pay at a salary level that Seattle had no interest in matching (a reported $50 million over 10 years has been floated), is it any wonder the two sides agreed to not reunite? The key phrase in the statement released by Leiweke was this: "Mike has declined our offer to rejoin the team given the structure we proposed.'' Whatever that structure entailed, it didn't include as much decision-making power (or salary) as Holmgren can get in Cleveland, a job he'll likely now accept by Monday. And no, Eric Mangini shouldn't consider that development good news for his job security. Mangini is almost certainly a one-and-done head coach in Cleveland with Holmgren coming aboard. Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/wr...l#ixzz0aIqpYvTAGet a free NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription
you had a good run Hank.
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• Turning the old line from "The Godfather'' on its head, sounds to me like the Seahawks made Mike Holmgren an offer they were pretty sure he'd refuse. According to the sources I talked to, Seattle really had no interest in vesting anyone with full-fledged football czar powers. But the Seahawks knew that their former head coach wanted something similar to the total control he could get in Cleveland by just saying yes to the desperate Browns.
In Seattle, Holmgren might have run the team's football operations, but he still would have reported to Seahawks CEO Tod Leiweke, owner Paul Allen's man at the top of the team's flow chart, and it likely would have been made clear to him that he had to keep head coach Jim Mora in place. Thus, the Seahawks job would have been something less than total control for Holmgren, and when you factor in that Cleveland is willing to pay at a salary level that Seattle had no interest in matching (a reported $50 million over 10 years has been floated), is it any wonder the two sides agreed to not reunite?
The key phrase in the statement released by Leiweke was this: "Mike has declined our offer to rejoin the team given the structure we proposed.'' Whatever that structure entailed, it didn't include as much decision-making power (or salary) as Holmgren can get in Cleveland, a job he'll likely now accept by Monday. And no, Eric Mangini shouldn't consider that development good news for his job security. Mangini is almost certainly a one-and-done head coach in Cleveland with Holmgren coming aboard.
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/wr...l#ixzz0aIqpYvTA
Get a free NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription
It will be funny to watch the Raiders slam Harrison to the turf. Sorry, but that was all on the Chiefs. They mailed it in defensively and couldn't tackle a dime. Anybody knows if you tackle the ghost he goes down. Yet, now he is this great back, please.
Not Mangini guys? My God, Cribbs is Eric's biggest supporter. Stupid posters.
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It will be funny to watch the Raiders slam Harrison to the turf
Really, you think it's funny to watch Cleveland Browns lose?
Obviously now I know why you support Mangini so much.
you had a good run Hank.
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the weak links are our safeties..
and corners. Wright is not starting quality either, though, nobody wants to admit it. McDonald won't be a Brown next year.
How can you say that when he doesn't have good saftey help over the top to trust?
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It will be funny to watch the Raiders slam Harrison to the turf. Sorry, but that was all on the Chiefs. They mailed it in defensively and couldn't tackle a dime. Anybody knows if you tackle the ghost he goes down. Yet, now he is this great back, please.
Not Mangini guys? My God, Cribbs is Eric's biggest supporter. Stupid posters.
What kind of "Browns fan" says this?... "It will be funny to watch the Raiders slam Harrison to the turf".
I believe an "immature" person who's a newbie as a Browns fan, might say something like that.
Maybe someone who is used to getting their own way and realizes he or she may not get his or her way, concerning who while run this franchise next season.
What kind of "Browns fan" says this?... "It will be funny to watch the Raiders slam Harrison to the turf".
Someone who turns out to be a Raiders fan, this week...that's who says something like that....jmho...mac
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950 |
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I wouldn't mind Mangini for another year
If it means keeping Rob Ryan for another year, Heck yes I'm all for it...
Sorry, I absolutly love the way this man attacks with his defence, and to do it with some of the players we got, just wait until after this springs draft when we get him some talent. \
Keep............ Rob as Def. Cord.
Hire .............Charlie W. as off. cord.
Tell Mangini these are his two cordinators for next year, if he wants to remain head coach. I dont have a problem with Mangini, but I do belive he needs a strong boss, overhim.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857 |
Mac,,, when it comes to spoonfed, I'm pretty sure he's a troll..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
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Hey you don't have to be sorry  .. I hardly ever agree with your assessment of this team .. I look at our win/loss record since our return / players FA/Drafted and coach's hired since 99 , and I feel very vindicated with MY assessments season in and season out  ..
Mangini digs in even more. Lerner has got a problem.
We gave up 34 points to the Chiefs...
Mangini should be and hopefully will be fired.
We gave up 34 to the Chiefs and 38 to the Lions yet everybody seems enamored with Ryan and blames Mangini and Daboll for all of our problems..... 
yebat' Putin
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Holmgren - Part III
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