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Florio is a doofus. Seems like he's just trying to be the first, post-Holmgren hire, to put some "ideas to save the Browns" out there so if and when any come to fruition he can say "told you so".
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Legend
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Just answer my question..... would you shut up about Quinn if he QB'ed us to a SUPERBOWL win? Just answer the question  You do know I'm having fun with you don't you?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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He pretty much answered it...and the answer was no.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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So you have seen the contract?
No, I haven't seen the contract.. But I'm pretty sure had they given any part of the team away, it would be public knowledge and be jamming the airwaves...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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5. Trade Jerome Harrison.
On the surface, the notion of trading a guy who rushed for 286 yards on Sunday is laughable. But it's important to consider the opponent against whom the performance came.
The Chiefs aren't good. Having a record day against a bad team doesn't mean Harrison will be the next Jim Brown.
But, surely, there's another team out there willing to swing a deal for Harrison, if only for the buzz factor. And Harrison will never have any more trade value than he has right now.
So Holmgren should sell high and use the resulting draft pick(s) on the many other areas of need.
As to replacing Harrison, the draft is replete with guys who can move the chains if they get the blocking.
Wow, I don't even know WHERE to begin saying what's wrong with this one. Maybe start with the fact that nobody else is going to be fooled into believing he's the next Jim Brown thanks to one good game? Or perhaps mentioning how far in the rearview mirror the trade deadline is? Or a gentle reminder that Holmgren doesn't actually have any control yet? Oh, Florio: such a writer!
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/GmuEd.gif) "One man's Bum is another man's Hobo" - Waterdawg
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I will never in my life understand how people like some of the media in Cleveland can live thier lives in such a miserable state of mind.. Geesh,, to some of them, the sky is always falling.. Maybe they weren't hugged as a child or somethimg...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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just clicking...
We may be seeing the influences of Holmgren over the franchise already.
I didn't know that Quinn had a torn hammy...seems he's going to IR and Anderson will be QBing this week.
Wow...that's unlucky as heck...I think... 
web page
So much for winning out. Lets see what Ratcliff can do. I think he gives the team the best chance to beat Oakland and Jax. Or, hope DA has shown any kind of improvement to up his trade value but they way he fires missles behind a route or at the targets feet, I dont think it is good to bring him in ahead of Ratcliff. Especially in this cold weather.
Quinn showed some toughness and leadership finishing the game after the injury. After watching his improvement, I really wanted to see him finish the year strong and continue to learn with his WRs. This gaurentees that he doesnt his his contract escalators which isnt good for him but good for the teams salary cap. Now that money should be able to go to Cribbs. He deserves it more anyways
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The best thing to do is just look at it and dismiss it..let MH come in and do what he needs to do..
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Dude are you some kind of screenplay writer on the side or something. I read some other posts like this of yours before, gotta say my sides were hurting after that one. Well done Great to wake up and read this news today 
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Besides, what if Mangini were to succeed in another season on the job? Holmgren then would be stuck with Mangini, and Mangini would surely take advantage of his newfound juice to accumulate as much power as possible.
I was able to stop taking this article seriously at that. I don't see Mangini "gaining" any power over Holmgren even if he goes to the SB next year as HC.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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No amount of hyperbole will make such a scenario believable.
If Holmgren fails, Lerner won't sell the team He won't sell a business just because his CEO didn't win a Super Bowl  He'll sell it if he's tired of it or if he needs money, but not because of failure. He'll simply reload with the next Czar and keep on banking.
Remember, despite it all, his business has continued to increase in value.
Lerner may in fact get tired if Holmgren can't fix this mess...he may just not want to deal with it anymore...
however toad, I was just making a blanket statement
I very highly doubt Holmgren fails here...a dude with his type of resume and his way of doing things...i think holmgren was a great hire who will in fact fix this mess...
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Quote:
Quote:
just clicking...
We may be seeing the influences of Holmgren over the franchise already.
I didn't know that Quinn had a torn hammy...seems he's going to IR and Anderson will be QBing this week.
Wow...that's unlucky as heck...I think...
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So much for winning out. Lets see what Ratcliff can do. I think he gives the team the best chance to beat Oakland and Jax. Or, hope DA has shown any kind of improvement to up his trade value but they way he fires missles behind a route or at the targets feet, I dont think it is good to bring him in ahead of Ratcliff. Especially in this cold weather.
Quinn showed some toughness and leadership finishing the game after the injury. After watching his improvement, I really wanted to see him finish the year strong and continue to learn with his WRs. This gaurentees that he doesnt his his contract escalators which isnt good for him but good for the teams salary cap. Now that money should be able to go to Cribbs. He deserves it more anyways
legal...Regardless of how unfortunate it is for Brady Quinn, from Holmgren's viewpoint, it will give him a chance to see Anderson in game situations, thus allowing MH to have a better idea of what direction he needs to go at the QB position, in the off season.
The glass is half full...mac
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Besides, what if Mangini were to succeed in another season on the job? Holmgren then would be stuck with Mangini, and Mangini would surely take advantage of his newfound juice to accumulate as much power as possible.
I was able to stop taking this article seriously at that. I don't see Mangini "gaining" any power over Holmgren even if he goes to the SB next year as HC.
It is a crappy article. I've never seen someone try to argue that it would be a bad thing for a team if their coach succeeded.
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legal...Regardless of how unfortunate it is for Brady Quinn, from Holmgren's viewpoint, it will give him a chance to see Anderson in game situations, thus allowing MH to have a better idea of what direction he needs to go at the QB position, in the off season.
U really think MH needs to see DA to get a clue as to what he is?
If he does then the Walrus resembles this guy in the middle a lot..
Come to think of it Mangini reminds me of the penguin ..  
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legal...Regardless of how unfortunate it is for Brady Quinn, from Holmgren's viewpoint, it will give him a chance to see Anderson in game situations, thus allowing MH to have a better idea of what direction he needs to go at the QB position, in the off season.
U really think MH needs to see DA to get a clue as to what he is?
If he does then the Walrus resembles this guy in the middle a lot..
Come to think of it Mangini reminds me of the penguin ..
tacker...Do you remember the last time Holmgren got a good look at Anderson, up close and personal?
Let's see if you recall that event... ..
I have little doubt, Holmgren will be watching Anderson closely and he's damn thankful to have that opportunity, going into the offseason.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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We keep changing course every couple of years .... sometimes by necessity and sonetimes by desire ..... and nothing ever gets accomplished.
I knwo that the NFL is increasingly becoming a league of "win now or else" ..... but no one ever seems to get a chance to build their program when taking over a really bad team. Mangini certainly didn't.
That isn't true.
Butch Davis was into his FOURTH year.
Savage and Crennel got a FULL FOUR YEARS together.
There's being patient (us) and then there's being idiotically stubborn (Lions with Millen).
Patience isn't our problem. It's who we've installed that's been the problem.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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5. Trade Jerome Harrison.
On the surface, the notion of trading a guy who rushed for 286 yards on Sunday is laughable. But it's important to consider the opponent against whom the performance came.
The Chiefs aren't good. Having a record day against a bad team doesn't mean Harrison will be the next Jim Brown.
But, surely, there's another team out there willing to swing a deal for Harrison, if only for the buzz factor. And Harrison will never have any more trade value than he has right now.
So Holmgren should sell high and use the resulting draft pick(s) on the many other areas of need.
As to replacing Harrison, the draft is replete with guys who can move the chains if they get the blocking.
Wow, I don't even know WHERE to begin saying what's wrong with this one. Maybe start with the fact that nobody else is going to be fooled into believing he's the next Jim Brown thanks to one good game? Or perhaps mentioning how far in the rearview mirror the trade deadline is? Or a gentle reminder that Holmgren doesn't actually have any control yet? Oh, Florio: such a writer!
General comment regarding Florio's.........All he's doing is considering striking while the iron is hot. He knows Harrison isn't a great back. Florio's problem is that he thinks he's smarter than the league, but the league isn't going to spend a big pick on a piece of fools-gold like Harrison. The premise, however, is sound.
I also completely agree that Holmgren needs to find a way to make Jim Brown STFU. He's been an embarassment to this organization for numerous years with his innapropriate comments and ill-formed opinions. Part of the big disconnect for this organization has been because people like Brown, who have no real business regarding personnel or coaching decisions, constantly get in front of the camera and act like a mouth piece. It looks like there are too many chefs in the kitchen. Well, as the new Czar, it's Holmgren's show, and it needs to be ONLY Holmgren's show. That means people like Brown and Kosar need to be on the back burner at best.
I also agree that Mangini needs to go. Virtually all of his hires have been failures or even fired. Keeping him on as a puppet HC wouldn't do anyone any good. It won't be his offense and probably won't be his defense. His hands will be tied and he'll have no real power, even in terms of being a HC.
The Browns are wiping the slate clean and starting over. Well, it's time to start ALL the way over. We have some pieces in guys like Thomas, Cribbs, Jackson, Rogers, and Wright. There are other bit-players who can do some things. Yet in terms of cutting ties to the past, it's time to let Holmgren bring in all his own people.
Sorry, Randy, but while you may want to keep Mangini, you don't know what the Hell you're talking about. If you did, you wouldn't have had to throw up the white-flag and bring in a football guy to make football decisions. You're a great owner in terms of allowing the shot-callers to do their thing, and you're a great owner in terms of your willingness to spend money, but in terms of knowing who should stay or go, you're clueless. Sorry. It is what it is.
It's time for Holmgren to start from scratch. Ryan is about the only real coach who knows what he's doing, and he may not fit the 4-3 if we go in that direction.
Florio has it mostly right this time. He's an ass and isn't as smart as he thinks he is, but he's pretty spot-on here.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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tacker...Do you remember the last time Holmgren got a good look at Anderson, up close and personal?
Mac do U remember the last time you got to see DA?
Wasn't it like...a few months ago?
Do U recall how turrible he was?
Do U really think MH needs to closely watch DA?
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If MH is going to run the WCO here , the first thing he better do is find a couple of WR's that can get separation and hang on to the ball then look at the right side of the Line .. Defense , another Whole story
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Didn't Ryan run the 4-3 defense in Oakland? 
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Didn't Ryan run the 4-3 defense in Oakland?
only in his last year....and when Al Davis forced him to switch to it, he tried to leave the Raiders for the Jets, but Al wouldn't let him, so he stayed.
i don't think Ryan likes the 4-3.
#gmstrong
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He did, but he may not fit what holmgren wants to do with the 4-3.
Ryan is a blitz-happy guy. Holmgren's 4-3 has, at times, been much less blitz-happy. The end result is that what Ryan wants to do may not mesh with what Holmgren wants to do.
Both guys systems are based on the 4-3, just like a Yugo and a Ferrari are both cars. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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from Holmgren's viewpoint, it will give him a chance to see Anderson in game situations,
Holmgren has already seen DA in a game situation.. against the hawks in 2007 . He referred to it last friday on his radio show...
For those thinking conspiracy,,, I don't believe Holmgren had anything to do with any decisions about putting someone on IR.. and I don't buy into him wanting to see any more of DA..
Quinn got injured, we all saw him hobble after the hit he took on that run,,we just weren't aware there was any more to it than that since he finished the game.
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Week 9: vs. Seattle Seahawks
1 2 3 4 OT Total
Seahawks 7 14 3 6 0 30
Browns 0 9 7 14 3 33
at Cleveland Browns Stadium, Cleveland, Ohio
Game time: 4:05 PM EST/3:05 PM CST
Game weather: 48 °F (9 °C), cloudy, winds W 6 MPH
Game attendance: 72,927
Referee: Gene Steratore
TV announcers: Sam Rosen and Tim Ryan for Fox
The Browns returned home to face the NFC West-leading Seattle Seahawks in a late afternoon game. The Seahawks struck first as Matt Hasselbeck found Bobby Engram for a 5-yard touchdown pass. The Browns struck back in the 2nd quarter as Jamal Lewis scored on a 2-yard run, but Phil Dawson missed the extra point. The Seahawks then scored twice more to put the Browns in a hole, first on a Hasselbeck 6-yard pass to D.J. Hackett, then on a 94-yard punt return by Nate Burleson. Dawson would add a 19-yard field goal to make the score 21–9 at the half.
In the second half, Cleveland opened up with a long drive capped off by Jamal Lewis' 1-yard run for a touchdown. After Josh Brown kicked a field goal for the Seahawks, Lewis scored again from 2 yards out. The Browns tried for two points after this touchdown, but failed to convert. Brown then kicked another field goal to make the score 27–22 with about 7 minutes to play. The Browns drove 89 yards to take the lead for the first time in the game, with Lewis scoring his career-high fourth rushing touchdown of the game. The Browns again went for two, and this time Derek Anderson found Joe Jurevicius for the conversion to put the Browns up by three. The Seahawks then drove down for a game-tying field goal by Brown. In overtime, the Seahawks had the ball first, but were stopped on a 4th-and-1 play, turning the ball over on downs. Cleveland was then able to drive into field goal range, and Dawson kicked a 25-yard field goal for the victory, the Browns' third win in a row (the first time that they had achieved this since 2001).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Cleveland_Browns_season#Regular_season_week-by-week_results
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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tacker...Do you remember the last time Holmgren got a good look at Anderson, up close and personal?
Mac do U remember the last time you got to see DA?
Wasn't it like...a few months ago?
Do U recall how turrible he was?
Do U really think MH needs to closely watch DA?
2007 OT win vs. Seattle.
Great game, I got to see it in person.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Legend
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If MH is going to run the WCO here , the first thing he better do is find a couple of WR's that can get separation and hang on to the ball then look at the right side of the Line .. Defense , another Whole story
There is one player who I think can help this offense who is coming out this year...
His name: Jordan Shipley
We have to get this guy!
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He did, but he may not fit what holmgren wants to do with the 4-3.
Ryan is a blitz-happy guy. Holmgren's 4-3 has, at times, been much less blitz-happy. The end result is that what Ryan wants to do may not mesh with what Holmgren wants to do.
Both guys systems are based on the 4-3, just like a Yugo and a Ferrari are both cars.
Speaking of 4-3, I attempted to put our current roster players into the 4-3. There are a couple guys that I wasn't sure to put at OLB or DE (Roth, Wimbley, for example). I kind of like what the DL looks like in a 4-3... Feel free to update to your thoughts all, not sure exactly what it'd look like.
DE Roth, Benard
DT Rogers, Rubin, Coleman, Schaefferling
DT Williams, Mosely, Smith, Robinson
DE Bowens, Veikune
OLB Barton, Trusnick
MLB Jackson, Costanzo, Maiava, Harrison
OLB Wimbley, Hall
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With the way Roth has come on, he's big enough to play DE in the 4-3. The other end position can be stopgapped by Robaire or another DE.
Wimbley..........I think he's dead-weight as a starter. I think he could have a tad bit of value as a 3rd down rush specialist, but that's it. Frankly, he looks more like an OLB than anything else.
Barton can't play OLB. He's too old and beaten up. He'd get exposed.
We don't have an OLB for the other side, either.
Because of the tackles, we transition better to the 4-3, but we still have holes.
I'm also not convinced Corey Williams is a starter.
We transition well to the 4-3 if we want to go that way, but the reality is we have numerous holes no matter which scheme we run.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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If we trully are switching to the 4-3 defense then maybe we should draft a guy like Derrick Morgan out of Georgia Tech. He's the most complete DE in the draft.
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I remember MH mentioning he HAS seen Anderson (from playing Seattle in 07, and I'm also assuming he had seen/heard of him when Anderson was in college?)
He also specifically said he wanted to see/study Quinn.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Yugo and a Ferrari are both cars.
Put a 12 cylinder 600 HP engine in a yugo, and it might beat a Ferrari in a straight line.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Or it might fly apart at the seams when it hits 70 mph
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Put a 12 cylinder 600 HP engine in a yugo, and it might beat a Ferrari in a straight line.
This I want to see
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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My point to Mac is MH doesn't need to heavily scrutinize DA...the league knows what DA is about...look at the QBs he's coached..DA doesn't fit that mold..he's not accurate..low football IQ...
Expecting a WCO in here doesn't bode well for DA..
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Dude, you have no CLUE what you're talking about. Not one.
You can't judge Anderson. You don't have enough information.
Remember what Mac and Holmgren say: You have to have three full years worth of games before you can judge a QB. That's 48 starts. Anderson only has 32 starts. So you have to give him another FULL YEAR before you can honestly say what you've got in him. Don't you know anything?
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I also completely agree that Holmgren needs to find a way to make Jim Brown STFU. He's been an embarassment to this organization for numerous years with his innapropriate comments and ill-formed opinions. Part of the big disconnect for this organization has been because people like Brown, who have no real business regarding personnel or coaching decisions, constantly get in front of the camera and act like a mouth piece. It looks like there are too many chefs in the kitchen. Well, as the new Czar, it's Holmgren's show, and it needs to be ONLY Holmgren's show. That means people like Brown and Kosar need to be on the back burner at best.
^^
I respect the guy for what he has done on the field, but lets leave it at that
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j/c... All I know is I all of a sudden feel 100 times better about our QB position. The guy knows QB's, so there will be no debate from me regardless if he goes with Brady, DA, or someone new next year. I'm behind it 100%.
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j/c
I know Holmgren is a WCO guy, but does that automatically mean he's going to make the team switch to a WCO?
Logic might lead us in that direction (especially if he does have eyes on the coaching job or one of his WCO guys taking it in the next year or two), but it's not a given.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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No, it's not a given, but I think it'd be a huge mistake if he suddenly started to change offensive philosophies at the age of 61 when he's been to Super Bowls with 3 different organizations, all of which have used the WCO.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I agree, Toad, but was just sort of wondering out loud. In addition, should he decide to want to keep Mangini, this could end up being something that makes or breaks it. Is Mangini willing to bring in an OC that's a WCO guy or does he insist on keeping Daboll? I think it was you in another thread who basically said, Mangini will either need to get on board with Holmgren or he'll get his walking papers.
The "official" announcement next week could shed some light on a lot of this, but my guess is until the season's over and Holmgren has had time to really evaluate everything about Mangini, we won't know for sure.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Holmgren - Part III
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