DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum cribbs' agent: "we're done"

Maybe he can send that bill to this agent.

I can only think of 3 items that would cause the Browns and Holmgren to do this.

1. They always planned on Trading Cribbs
2. Holmgren is just a coach, and this is a first of many mistakes to come with him in the front office.
3. Cribbs lied

FIRE Dawn Aponte!

Aponte,...that's a good point,..did she come up with that figure, or did Big Mike suggest it to her ?

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Per his agent's explanation of the situation, $1.4 is Holmgren's number.

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No, that's not accurate.. That number was first proposed before Holmgren even interviewed for the job. It was offered by Aponte from Lerner. Then when it became obvious that Holmgren was coming, supposedly the offer was withdrawn and Cribbs and his agents were told to wait until MH was on board...

MH supposedly said to make the same offer last week....

Yeah, but is it a number HE came up with, or just a follow-on from what Aponte had pulled out of thin air ?

I know he was offered the $1.4 figure before Holmgren was hired. But if he said to keep it at that, wouldn't that make it his number as well? I sincerely doubt that he just said "whatever you guys threw out there before is cool". Bottom line, if what we're hearing from the agent is accurate, Holmgren at this point supports a deal with $1.4 million as a final offer.

Now we're splitting hairs,, it wasn't his number originally.. but he did later agree to it... I guess it could be called his number also..

I am concerned, but not alarmed. This was an initial deal offer, stress that. It is not a "last best" offer as I have used in negotiations on a smaller scale. The agent is (badly and poorly) negotiating in the media, trying to "create a lever where none exists" to get a Hester-like deal. A good deal of real world money is in place already, but it is a bargain in NFL Land. And the agents tactics and tone are way over the top. Seems logical to me that he overpromised (surprise!) and underdelivered, and the potential is there for a Lerner driven wall of some type that says "Not Cribbs at ANY price", which doesn't mean JC isn't valued and highly wanted, but it IS a message to agents and JC that it may not be on the scale of imagination a gold-digging agent wants. JC is in it for the money, and he is worth more than this first offer, but no way is it the final in my experience. I cannot imagine MH being a keen offensive mind and solid judge of talent NOT wanting Cribbs, his appeal, and his character, but most of all his production. I think it will occur.
I am really disappointed in this "agent" and his methods, meself. And step away from the noise. Keep in mind, and right up front, please, that a whole bunch of the outrage and pain are all on the agent's sayso and solely his "side" of the situation, his take, which is a lousy way to approach this. I favor a mutual settlement rather than this strong arm tytpe of extorting, black eyes, mudslinging and disrespect. And I really am suspect given the frantic nature and tone of this "revelation" because it sound frantic and panicked to me. Good time for a dose of sanity and some deep breaths; welcome home, Mr. President. Pay de man.

FIRE Dawn Aponte!

Logic - All the sources state that her communications with the agents blew up into this mess. With her gone as the scapegoat, both sides can come back to the table without losing face. She is VERY expendable.

Emotions - This whole thind makes me . So get rid of her and stop . The whole situation is , and I'm tired of feeling like the sky is falling ( ) ! The fans don't like it ( ), we just want a team that wins ( ) and most feel Josh will help us do that consistently ( )! So right smack in the middle of this confusing situation is Dawn, who I don't know and her overall importance to me makes me . I feel she's not without fault here ( ) , so fire her and get the FO ( ) and the agents ( ) back to the table!

this is one of the most.... er...

...."colorful" posts I've ever seen.


Ever think about writing children's books, Oldcold?

WOW,, I got a headache reading that

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I wonder if this agent is friend of cribbs or a pro agent?

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They are Pro Agents,, in fact, they represent Joe Thomas..

I think you should read that article yourself...cause they never stated anywhere that they were seeking 2.5 mil.

After the fact - the agent did make a comment that IF THE BROWNS offered 2.5 mil we would be negotiating...sorry but you proved nothing. Just an agent lying as usual...who knows what they would have done...AND WHAT JUST WHAT WAS THEIR STARTING POINT...we can ASSume that they EXPECTED the Browns to offer actual quote originally from the agent was 2.8-3.2 cause that is what other teams were telling them to expect.

Also that article lost all credibility to me when they stated that we offered 1.4 mil for 6 years!!!! Simply not the truth.

Look if these Agents really cared about Cribbs they would negotiate off the 1.4 maybe get it to like 2 mil but the BIG CONDITION on their part for their client is to have the last two years of the CONTRACT expunged...making him a FA in 2011

But that you know what? That would only be good for Cribbs...the agents would make Squadoosh until that FA contract was made and who knows if there will be football in 2011...Thats why THEY WANT THAT BIG FAT COMMISION NOW FOR THAT GUARANTEED SIGNING BONUS!!! Its not about Cribbs...its about their commission and something they can use to get other clients...LOOK WHAT WE GOT FOR CRIBBS - SIGN WITH US!!!

I love Cribbs and want him here...trust me, the Browns fans after the initial shock will subside will not side with Cribbs. Come March and FA starts...if Cribbs still maintains this course...We will sign Smith from the Jets. He's a better WR, He's excellent as a return man just doesn't have the same blocking as Cribbs does, was an ex-college QB and runs the Wildcat just as good as Cribbs but actually has had more success completing passes. Oh and his last paycheck was $530 grand!

Trade Cribbs to a club who wishes to spend a first or early 2nd for him.
Or let Cribbs cut his nose to spite his face and don't show up to camps...more reps for Smith anyways.
Or let Cribbs come back (if our offer is still on the table which I doubt) and compete for his job...will his heart still be there (his biggest asset).

Love Cribbs but I root for the Browns and nothing is bigger than the TEAM...there is life after Cribbs if that is the way he wants it (NOT ME...a he is the saying HE'S DONE!!!)
Sign Smith - trade Cribbs we lose NOTHING!!!! and gain an extra Impact pick...Life moves on.

JMHO

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the agent did make a comment that IF THE BROWNS offered 2.5 mil we would be negotiating...

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Not for nothin, but I take that to mean that they would have thought that 2.5 mil was a good starting point.. that to me means that they wanted more to begin with...

I know when I say this I'm in the minority but I think Cribbs and his agent think he is more valuable to the team than he really is. He was tried as a WR and couldn't cut it. He didn't do anything overall impressive at the position. Had he done so I'm sure that the offer would have been much higher.

Don't get me wrong here. He is a great ST player but when was the last time a team one 12 games or made the playoffs because of their great kick returner or gunner? I think 2 Million a year is more than fair. Based on that 1.4 seems like a good starting point.


The truth is if he wants to hold out and we can get a decent trade for him I wouldn't be crying over the loss of a ST player. Getting a starting player who can contribute in a bigger role would be more beneficial to the team than what he does.

I like Josh a lot. I also hope that they get something worked out but if he becomes a problem and decides to hold out or gets traded I think we can survive the loss.

I got the feeling that Holmgren knew the number and that it was really low. In his presser, he all but eluded to the fact that there would be tumult.

In a bid to add perspective, he noted that, with 3 years remaining on his current contract, negotiating "this early is a bit unprecedented." He also said that he hoped that what they were offering would be enough to keep negotiations on track - a clear inference that it wouldn't be.

These are not the words of a Czar who is hell-bent on retaining Cribbs at all reasonable cost. And this scenario isn't all that unprecidented either. Hester, who has emerged as a good reciever albeit at the cost of his returning numbers, just renegotiated his contract to the tune of 3 times the Brown's offer. That contract is what is driving this issue south. So do we fall in line with that unreasonable number to keep our biggest threat fat and happy (along with his parasite agent)? Or do we make an attempt to normalize the Special Team contract space by forcing a smaller number? Say ...2.7 - 3.3 mil/per.

I say no way he gets mid 5. I also think the kid is worth twice what they offered (or more) given the impact he has in nearly every phase of the game plan. As a buddy pointed out to me, aside from Buffalo, show me one game that we would have won without Cribbs' performance. The answer is none. He IMPACTS the game. He deserves some cash.

But the bottom line I keep revisiting is this: he is under contract to the Browns. He signed an agreement that was acceptable with all interested parties, including his scum sucking agent. You know, where the hell was he when Cribbs was elated about getting a deal, any deal, back in 2006? Maybe you limit the length of the contract if you believe you have a client with the potential to outplay it. Maybe you don't make it half (or more) of the average duration of a returner's career. ^ years is a lifetime for a guy in his spot. Shouldn't he be on the hook for some of this?

He may choose to sit out. Demand a trade. But the bottom line is that if he does that, he will be choosing to give up the game of football. He could start boning up his resume and maybe land a job selling cars or something. Or he could put his degree to work and get a job in sociology or communications. He'll be up to high six figures in no time.

I love the guy. I want to see him hang it up in Canton next to a big orange helmet. But this is life in the big city and he and his staff need to accept at least SOME responsibilty for his situation. He deserves more. He should get more. But he needs to negotiate like everyone else.

Threatening to sit out is attempting to use leverage that isn't there. He is under a contract that has his approval on it. And his agent's.

i don't think you're in the minority at all. i'm fully with you on that. take away the emotions and you see that the guy is the best special teamer and that's it. look at the best teams in the league. they don't use a wild cat. we're looking to find ways to get cribbs the ball the same way the saints did with reggie bush. when our overall talent improves, cribbs' value will diminish so they know to strike because now is the time they'll get the most.

My thoughts as well. I think people are letting their emotions affect their thought process here...

Good teams will also have an answer to the Cribbs wildcat by next season. It's never been a surprise what he would do from the QB position, other than the time he passed to Quinn.

Wildcat was supposed to be something to catch a defense off-guard, but it doesn't accomplish that when you run it 3x straight or 10-15 times a game.

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Also that article lost all credibility to me when they stated that we offered 1.4 mil for 6 years!!!! Simply not the truth.

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How do you know? Was it stated somewhere or are tou coming to a conclusion based on your knowledge of how contracts are typically structured?

Just to make sure you don't misread my question, I am being sincere, not trying to call you on anything.

As a football fan....I say PAY THE MAN

as a Steeler fan...I say TRADE THE MAN

HACK

All i gotta say is Cribbs is worth 2.5 mil a season...the man deservea reasonable raise, and 2.5 mill is a reasonable number

Cribbs is the heart and soul of this team...this guy is better then Eric Metcalf

Look how awful the Browns became when they traded Metcalf...

The Browns are on the verge of turning the corner to be a really good team, and Cribbs is a big part of that reason...if we botch this deal with Cribbs...he will go elsewhere, win a super bowl, and hang is helmut in the Hall of fame

We need to do whatever we can to keep this guy...he is more than just a special teams player...he is the heart and soul of this franchise...

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We need to do whatever we can to keep this guy...he is more than just a special teams player...he is the heart and soul of the Special Teams...

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Fixed it for you-

I don't have a problem if they wanted to pay him 2.5 million.... But it sounded like the agents for Cribbs consider that a starting point...

Apparently someone missed the Steeler's game. One of the best run defenses there is knows exactly whats coming but they still can't stop it...but its ok, even Kansas City will be stuffing it next year, right?

You guys amaze me. I haven't gotten a chance to read this entire thread but I've read most of it, so pardon me if I missed this somewhere but I haven't seen anyone talk about how this is going to have an impact on future signings. If we won't pay Cribbs after everything he's done for us what is a potential free agent going to think about us? Nothing good I'm sure. How long do you think we can keep doing this before WE are the team that the top draft picks pull an Eli Manning on and refuse to play for us when we draft them? We're going to have a reputation that we don't take care of our own, and it will be a justified reputation.

I can't believe there are so many people who are clinging to that WEAK argument that he's "just" a special teams player. He's not only a lot more than that, he's got a very good chance of being a HALL OF FAME special teams player. I don't care if its a punter, if you have one with Hall of Fame potential you better give the guy a better contract than every other punter in the league.

And what are we going to do when it comes time to do Lawrence Vickers contract? He makes less than a million per year right now but he's emerged as arguably the best at his position in the game. Are we going to offer him the same type of offer? He'd walk too. Then all the football-stupid people are going to say he was *just* a fullback, that position isn't important, then be up in arms about how crappy our running backs are because they average 3.5 ypc.

And yes, if you think special teams and fullbacks aren't important, I am calling you football-stupid.

Nobody is saying that special teams aren't important. What they are saying is that Cribbs is doing 3 things wrong.

1. taking this thing public and threatening to hold out or force a trade. If he continued what he was doing previously he had all the public backing. Coming out like this really only caused some to second guess their opinion.

2. The timing of the whole thing. The president has only been on the job for a couple of days. At this point there are several things that are more important than renegotiating a players contract who still has 3 years left on his current deal. There is a whole off season for this to be taken care of.

3. Over valuing his importance to the team. He actually came out and said that he personally saved these coaches jobs. Like he was the only guy on the field. Again he is a special teams player. That doesn't make him unimportant. However it does limit how much he gets paid. If he would have made more of an impact as a WR in the passing we would be having a whole different conversation. To say that 1.4 million is a slap in the face is silly. It a fine starting point for what he does for this team. From there he can negotiate it up and get somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-2.5 million plus incentives. Us saying he is only a ST player is really just putting it into perspective. Not saying "don't pay the man" just saying "pay the man accordingly"

put it another way, with the play of harrison in that 4 game win streak, if he came out and opined about his contract, saying he saved jobs, and saying an offer was insulting, he'd be pretty hated right now but even he would have more of a case as his contract is up or almost up vs cribbs with 3 years left.