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No, the point is that you don't understand "contract" in terms of NFL contracts. If I have a contract with my employer, and he fires me because I break my leg or I suck at my job, I can sue him and recoup the entire amount.
I understand exactly what your talking about. My guess is thats why most get signing bonuses. To give them $$$ up front in case something does happen to them.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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The Browns would not have won the last 4 games if not for Cribbs and Mangini would be fired and the Browns would probably have the 1st pick in the draft.
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The Browns would not have won the last 4 games if not for Cribbs and Mangini would be fired and the Browns would probably have the 1st pick in the draft.
And if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their butt when they hop.
#GMSTRONG
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cribbshero...let us not forget, Cribbs already signed a contract that Cribbs himself said, he was very happy with and thankful for.
Now, Cribbs doesn't like the 6 year contract he signed prior to the 2007 season. Cribbs had an agent who negotiated that contract for Cribbs and no one forced Cribbs to sign the contract. Now, just 3 years into his contract, Cribbs wants "another" new contract.
The Browns started the process of negotiating a new contract but Cribbs didn't like the amount of the raise. Instead of entering into a give and take process, Cribbs and his agents said they were done with Cleveland.
Cribbs is the one saying "It's over" in Cleveland.
Cribbs is the one saying.."There's no way I'll play another down for the Browns" if he doesn't get a contract he likes.
You point to all the goodwill that Cribbs has contributed to the Cleveland community, yet Cribbs clearly is putting money ahead of community.
In the last year, anyone who was not happy playing in Cleveland...Mangini made an effort to find them a new home. Since Cribbs says he's done in Cleveland, it leaves the Browns with little choice but to try find him a place where he will be happy.
It's time to face the facts Browns fans...money is the most important thing to Cribbs..not the Browns...not the Cleveland community.
The way I see it, the Browns have no choice but to find Cribbs another team, where hopefully, Cribbs will find happiness.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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JC. Has there been any further word? After some thought, I find it odd that the only thing being discussed is the yearly salary. If Josh Cribbs wants paid based on his 2009 production -- one would think he would aim for the guaranteed money/signing bonus, not the salary. If that's the case, pay him a big signing bonus, then add in numerous escalators based on his play/performance. If he fails to meet them, he's paid based on market value, if he meets them.. he's paid based on market value. Devin Hester's: SourceESPN.com senior writer John Clayton is reporting the four-year deal is worth at least $30 million, of which $15 million is guaranteed. But according to a source, it also includes a $10 million roster bonus in the final year if Hester reaches performance levels of a No. 1 receiver over the course of the contract. The bonus "de-escalates" to account for performance below the level of a No. 1 receiver.Hester's deal had $15 million guaranteed. It doesn't say whether that guaranteed money is also based on the transition to a #1 WR (just bonus money), and his anticipated production level based on that position, but when you think about it -- we can throw the #1 WR part of the contract/terms out, and Hester's deal becomes more realistic. It also matches Cribbs' value, and contract formats' needs, as stated above: - Big signing bonus/guaranteed money based on 2009 and previous seasons productions. - Contract based on escalators to make sure he isn't overpaid, or declines in production.
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The biggest thing that I see is the message that this sends and precedent it sets for EITHER decision.
I completely agree with everyone that this came at the wrong time while we are still settling top management and personnel, so it's not good to play hardball with Holmgren on WEEK 1 of the job. Clearly don't want to have every other player lining up outside the office for a raise.
However, what does this say to the players on our team and that would possibly come in as free agents?? The message is "Wow, I can go to Cleveland, be a good soldier, not be a troublemaker, do my job, shut up... and they give me squat."
Look at D'Qwell and Cribbs and even Harrison to an extent. BUT D'Qwell and Cribbs have both outplayed thier contracts, just Cribbs multiple times over. And how do we reward them for being good players, great guys in the media and community, and keeping quiet on their deals that they are unhappy with? We (so far) give them nothing or insult them.
Meanwhile, the players who cause trouble, make scenes, go public, and mainly CAUSE DISTRACTIONS (not arguing talent, just that they were obviously problems) MAINLY K2 and BEdwards ... GET TRADED and REWARDED with FAT contracts ....
MH has to be careful not to cave too early, but don't forget he cant be TOO tough. This isn't just a matter of paying a player or a contract situation... this is a matter of "Will the Cleveland Browns reward good behavior and players that buy into the team?"
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Perhaps, but considering that Cribbs has demonstrated great character, I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt. Agent speak aside, he's been dicked around not just now but for a year and a half.
I'll ask again,
He was offered a contract for 6 years and signed it. He's out performed that contract.. no doubt.. but to go public like his agents have is really not a sign of great character.. Up until that, I would have absolutly agreed with you that Josh is a man of intergrity and honor and yes, character..
Now, I'm not 100% sure because I don't know the whole story..
All I'm saying is this, I'll reserve judgement until the "rest of the story' comes out.
Last edited by Referee2; 01/09/10 06:45 AM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Practice Squad
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I think there's some concern over Cribbs already having peaked. Players with return output similar to Cribbs have very short lifespans--
-All of Dante Hall's TD returns occurred within a 5 year span.
-Devin Hester hasn't taken one back in two years.
The two all-time greats that come to mind, Brian Mitchell and Desmond Howard, enjoyed more consistent careers spread over a longer period of time. However, neither one of them were asked to do as much as Cribbs, Hall, or Hester.
Mitchell had 100 touches from the LOS (receptions & carries) only once and didn't play coverage team till late in his career. Desmond Howard, moreover, was strictly a return man after his fifth year.
Cribbs' contribution has vastly outstretched his contract, to this point. But being asked to do so much (75 touches from the LOS, playing wide receiver, gunner, & return man), and having produced as much as he has, the chances of him hitting his ceiling are becoming greater and greater.
Taking a second rounder--while not the fair decision on a humanistic level--might be the smartest business move possible.
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Isn't it odd, then, that the biggest team player we've had over the last four years is being dicked around?
I've only heard one side's story, and likely only part of the story. The agent's initial comments said 1.4 (Cribbs too), subsequently I've read multiple times that incentives get it up to 2m/year. Also, we probably offered also a signing bonus that the agent conveniently left out. The whole deal was more likely 6 years 18+ million which makes it a more than fine offer.
What I find interesting is that nobody from the Browns have said anything that I've seen. I prefer to not pass complete judgement until I know both sides of the story - until then I'll assume that the agent only told us part of the real story.
At this point, it seems he's only interested in the salary part. The easy way around this is to offer the same bonus and backload the contract - if he doesn't perform in a year, cut him and we're on the hook for the same prorated bonus amount. If he does perform, he's worth the next year's escalated salary.
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I still say that the biggest issue isn't a couple (literally 1 or 2) million dollars. Obviously we dont want to overpay ... but name one player with potential or upside that would CHOOSE to come to cleveland if we dont reward the guys that do the right thing.
FURTHERMORE ... imagine the problems this will cause for every agent in future drafts. EVERY player will want to hold out for as MUCH as they can, because they will fear if they dont get as much as they can in writing, they will never be able to "Play" their way out of a lower level contract.
I mean, I realize that certain teams don't traditionally always pay their top guys and let them go, then reload through the draft (pittsburgh and Indy come to mind as those types of teams) ... but until we can prove that we can actually hit on the majority of our draft picks, we dont want to let cribbs walk for the difference of a million bucs a year, but we ALSO cant afford to scare away all the other players before they get here.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
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Yeah. let's trade our only playmaker in his prime (26yo) on a playmaker starved roster for the next David Veikune or Massa or Robo....it worked so well with Winlsow too....great idea  Playoff time in the NFL, prospect happy homer time in Cleveland Cribbs is worth more to us than any realistic draft picks compensation would be
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I didn't even notice that part at the end. I don't want to trade Cribbs, but there is a very good chance that he may not have much time left in his prime.
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Yeah. let's trade our only playmaker in his prime (26yo) on a playmaker starved roster for the next David Veikune or Massa or Robo....it worked so well with Winlsow too....great idea
Playoff time in the NFL, prospect happy homer time in Cleveland
Cribbs is worth more to us than any realistic draft picks compensation would be
Hey, I'm happy homer!
I agree trading cribbs would be completely retarded on too many levels.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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I didn't even notice that part at the end. I don't want to trade Cribbs, but there is a very good chance that he may not have much time left in his prime.
So we trade our best player for "potential"?
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2nd String
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When are the Raiders going to be discussed as a potential suitor.
Based on their previous movies, If there is one team that would overpay for Cribbs it would be the Raiders.
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He isn't even close to our best player and I said I didn't want us to trade him. 
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Based on their previous movies, If there is one team that would overpay for Cribbs it would be the Raiders.
I want to keep Cribbs (and there could be picks worth it) but if the Raiders wanted to trade......Id like to beat old Al out of Cb Nmnanda Osamuyaa (sp) straight up!!!!!!! 
That would be a trade i would do in a sec. 
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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FURTHERMORE ... imagine the problems this will cause for every agent in future drafts. EVERY player will want to hold out for as MUCH as they can, because they will fear if they dont get as much as they can in writing, they will never be able to "Play" their way out of a lower level contract.
Let's be fair here. Cribbs was an UNDRAFTED FA that the Browns gave an opportunity. He was EXTREMELEY happy to sign his 6 year contract 3 years ago.Don't get me wrong, I feel Cribbs needs to be paid,..and he will,...by us.
But if you're comparing apples to apples, you are then saying undrafted FA's that we are willing to sign will be reluctant to do so because of Cribbs.  Sorry man,...that will never happen.
Cribbs situation is very unique. Undrafted FA's could only dream of having Cribbs problem right now.
Last edited by Calzone; 01/09/10 12:55 AM.
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Pay.The.Man.
Tear up the current contract, give him a fat signing bonus ($14M or so) up front and $2-3M per year for 6 years.
Toss in some escalators for KR, WR, RB stats & Pro Bowl berths... and wrap up the most dynamic player on our team, and arguably the league.
This was from the locked thread, but I was so stunned to read it I had to bring it here.
Purp has officially lost his mind. 
A $14 million dollar signing bonus. For a player who doesn't play a regular position.  AND give him $2-$3 Million per season. AND give him incentives.
Wow. I mean............just...............wow.
I like Cribbs, but that's the kind of money you pay elite starters.
I think he's worth about $3 million per. Not a dime more.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I personally think that a 3yr/10mil contract with 3-4mil guaranteed would be a phenomenal contract for Cribbs.
I fear that Cribbs is pricing himself out of CLE. If we can get a 2nd rd pick for him I say take it and run.
In the end, Cribbs is a great player, but he performs well in a position that can be filled by late round picks as well as someone on the roster. While not the passing threat that Josh can be, Harrison has looked good out of the wildcat, and Lawson has some good potential.
If there is a team willing to give up a 2nd, we need to take it and not look back.
IMO of course.
Last edited by KashDawg; 01/09/10 01:24 AM.
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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Quote:
Pay.The.Man.
Tear up the current contract, give him a fat signing bonus ($14M or so) up front and $2-3M per year for 6 years.
Toss in some escalators for KR, WR, RB stats & Pro Bowl berths... and wrap up the most dynamic player on our team, and arguably the league.
This was from the locked thread, but I was so stunned to read it I had to bring it here.
Purp has officially lost his mind.
A $14 million dollar signing bonus. For a player who doesn't play a regular position. AND give him $2-$3 Million per season. AND give him incentives.
Wow. I mean............just...............wow.
I like Cribbs, but that's the kind of money you pay elite starters.
I think he's worth about $3 million per. Not a dime more.
I'm not getting into all the figures but I want to discuss the argument about how he doesn't play a regular position and only plays 25% of the snaps.
I believe the 25% of the snaps argument was yours. if that is the case are you talking about 25% of the entire game or something else?
I also think many are really underestimating his actual value...
1. He is the best returner overall in football. In fact he might actually turn out to be the best of all time. He is not a speed returner so his ability to return kicks so well isn't going to be affected as much as others if he loses half a step.
2. he is one of the best gunners in the league as well.That makes him very valuable on all the special teams.That equates to him being our best player on all punts and kickoffs in every game. I have no idea how high of a percentage we punt, receive punts, kickoff and receive kicks. considering how bad our offense has been and how many points we give up I'm assuming our percentage is higher than mmost of the league.
3. He runs the wildcat offense. Someone said it is nothing but a gimmick offense abd teams will learn to defend it.I don't buy into that argument. He generally runs the zone read offense that has had great success in college, as well as other pro teams.
4. He is our number two receiver. Granted he is an awful two but he does bring us more value than just receiving. With the motion we use with him he is not only to run the ball he makes a defense focus on him as a running threat which does help the offense gain mismatches.
5. we would be able to carry only two QBs on the 53 man roster if we chose. it wouldn't help us with our 45 man active roster but it can help us to keep an extra body in a position of need. As Mangini found out it can be very dangerous trying hide someone that is not needed on the 53 man roster but he wants to keep on the practice squad.
Like I said I don't want to talk actual numbers because I am not knowledgeable to do so. I think that just comparing him to special teams players is ridiculous. You mentioned hester...When he got his contract he was not a legit #2 and i think I remembering you pointing that out. I believe that Cribs is not now or ever really will be a #2. I do think we can get him the ball much more as a receiver With more use of bubble screens and drag routes he can be more effective. his best attribute is his ability to break tackles.With his ability to get yac he can average closer to receivers who run longer routes.
#gmstrong
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A second rounder is not adequate compensation. Sweeten the deal a little bit more and maybe.... but otherwise he is a Brown even if he has to watch the games from home.
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You guys are kidding me?! Just because Cribbs came out of nowhere to become a legitimate playmaker, you think any undrafted free agent or late round pick can do that?
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the kid is the heart and soul of the Cleveland Browns! If the Browns had a roster full of players that cared about winning as much as Josh Cribbs, the Browns would still be playing right now.
But I guess you guys are willing to get rid of that. There are only a few players on this team that I can feel proud to call Cleveland Browns, and you guys want to get rid of one of them. No wonder the Browns haven't been good since they've returned.
Pretty much every game we've won in the last year or so has coincided with Cribbs having a pretty big game. Do you want to get rid of that? Do you want the Browns to have a reputatation of low-balling players?
I can't speak for everyone, but i sure don't.
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I believe the 25% of the snaps argument was yours. if that is the case are you talking about 25% of the entire game or something else?
Not my argument. Haven't even considered it because if he's on the field as a receiver we're a bad team. Thus, his percentage of snaps shouldn't figure into the equation. Number of touches is more pertinent, and I believe going forward in his career those numbers will drop.
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4. He is our number two receiver. Granted he is an awful two but he does bring us more value than just receiving.
Wanted to start there because I'm on board with the talk that he's the best special-teamer in the game.
So, to your comment. He's a pathetic receiver. As the team gets better, his number of reps at the position will go down. So his value as a receiver is only applicable to this year, and in fact, if the discussion is paying him a long-term contract, there needs to be an adjustment that runs parallel to his declining reps at the position.
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5. we would be able to carry only two QBs on the 53 man roster if we chose.
As poorly as he throws the ball, we'd never go with him as the #3 QB on a regular basis. No team is going to risk going into the year with our emergency QB out returning kicks and risking getting hurt. Sure, you can't win long-term with the #3, but in a pinch, a #3 can at least throw the ball well enough to eek out a win if he has to come in during a game. We've all seen Cribbs throw the ball. It's horrible. He doesn't have value as a #3 QB. Wildcat? Yes. QB? No.
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Like I said I don't want to talk actual numbers because I am not knowledgeable to do so. I think that just comparing him to special teams players is ridiculous. You mentioned hester...When he got his contract he was not a legit #2 and i think I remembering you pointing that out.
He can't be compared to "just a special teams player" because he does add value as a wildcat guy. Granted, I think you can plug many players on a roster into that and have success, since our version of the Wildcat doesn't throw the ball at all, and in fact is more about running a power-sweep or faking a handoff and running at a hole, but that is neither here nor there because he does add value to that formation. So I think he should be paid as the best special teamer in the game, plus a tad more, but not a significant amount more.
Regarding Hester, he was paid because the Bears projected him to be a legit receiver. He'd shown enough in practices and games to believe he was worth it. The Bears were right. Cribbs has shown nothing towards being a receiver, so their contracts cannot adequately be compared.
Do I know enough to talk numbers? Hell, barely, but only because I can compare Cribbs' return numbers to his contemporaries, then compare their contracts along the line of projected pay-increases. What I can easily do is show how players such as Cribbs on other bad teams have seen a decrease in production after they were given new contracts after their career-year. To that end, this was Cribbs' career year, and history shows his production is going to go down, not up. So should he get a raise? Of course. Should he be getting $4 million per year? I don't believe so. I suppose if he's given incentives that reward him to that level for play similar to what he did this year, then sure, he's worth it. However, to guarantee him that kind of money through signing bonuses and salary..........I think it's very unwise.
It's fair to make him the highest paid special-teamer in the league, but a big contract is unwarranted. The contracts given to Andre Davis and Roscoe Parrish are out of line with their production, and there's a lesson to be learned there for those willing to really think about the entire situation.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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FURTHERMORE ... imagine the problems this will cause for every agent in future drafts. EVERY player will want to hold out for as MUCH as they can, because they will fear if they dont get as much as they can in writing, they will never be able to "Play" their way out of a lower level contract.
You do realize that a lot of draft picks already get paid more than what they are worth coming out of college, right?
Ryan Leaf
Heath Shuler
and so on...
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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Yeah. let's trade our only playmaker in his prime (26yo) on a playmaker starved roster for the next David Veikune or Massa or Robo....it worked so well with Winlsow too....great idea
Playoff time in the NFL, prospect happy homer time in Cleveland
Cribbs is worth more to us than any realistic draft picks compensation would be
Draft picks are not the only form of compensation in a trade.
A player for player swap might be more realistic.
A team has an excess of talent at a position and needs someone like Cribbs and we need a ________________
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I think he's worth about $3 million per. Not a dime more.
Good then, we are in agreement.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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He isn't even close to our best player....
Don't be so silly. Aside from Joe Thomas, Cribbs is our MVP.
Like I said, how quickly they forget....
gmstrong -----------------
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Cribbs is worth more to us than any realistic draft picks compensation would be
DJ...the Browns don't know what Cribbs value is yet as other teams are just contacting the Browns about Cribbs. The market determines the value, not the player, not the Browns.
Keep in mind, Cribbs and his agents are driving this situation, not the Browns. Cribbs and his agents made a decision to go public rather than enter into a give and take negotiations with the Browns negotiating team which just came under new management with Holmgren coming in on Monday.
Like I said, the record of the Browns front office has been to find another team for any player that does not want to be in Cleveland (Edwards, Winslow). Cribbs and his agents may have just added themselves to that list with their public behavior.
Holmgren is in the process of putting together a front office whose task will be to find players that can take the Browns to a Super Bowl victory. It's damn important to Holmgren to focus on this most important task and get it right by hiring the best available candidates.
Keep in mind, Holmgren is not the guy that supposed to be negotiating contracts and the guy who is supposed to play a part in the negotiating process has not yet been hired..the GM.
The Cribbs team obviously made a calculated decision go public in a "big" way, commenting to the radio, TV, print and Internet writers about how unfair Holmgren was to Cribbs with his insulting contract offer. It sure looks like the Cribbs team wanted to see if they could get Holmgren to cave into the public pressure they were attempting to apply by taking the negotiating process public after Holmgren's first offer.
IMO, the Cribbs team may have made a huge mistake, attempting to paint Holmgren as the bad guy in this situation. Anyone thinking with their brain and not their heart could see that from Holmgren's point of view, getting the Browns front office openings filled was a first priority for the new Browns President. Hiring the very people who should be involved in the negotiating process is a higher priority than negotiating a player's contract that has 3 more years on his present contract.
I seriously doubt that Holmgren is the type that is going to reward the type of behavior Cribbs and his agents have exhibited this week, with a new contract. The Cribbs team likely punched Josh's ticket out of Cleveland and they have no one to blame but themselves.
...jmho...mac
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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It all comes down to what is "fair" .... if an argument can be made that $2-3 million per year is unfair .......
If I were the HMFIC ... I would offer a contract with a new signing bonus, (maybe $6 or $7 million) another year or 2 .... a modest raise ... and a boatload of performance bonuses. There really is no other reason for the Browns to redo a deal that runs another several years other than to be nice to the player, and in appreciation for the palyer's hard work and performance. I do not see the need to give a player a huge raise just because they want it. I have always been of a mind that players should earn their contracts, and that a contract redone at the player's request, and to the player's benefit, (in this case, almost exclusively to the payer's benefit) should be redone in such a way that continued performance will be rewarded, while slippage in play will not.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Cribbs side would argue that he's providing an intangible asset that hinders his ability to hit performance targets, the squib kick or kicking away from him, as his opportunities would naturally decrease as more teams refuse to kick to him. Now whether or not that's an actual asset depends on how good the opposing teams kicker is at squibs and kicking away from him and as those opportunities decrease, how valuable is that to the Browns?
#GMSTRONG
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And i would counter that we have a binding contract for the next 3 years .... and that it's either this or we extend him 2 years with no bonus ..... with year 4 being $5 million and year 5 being $10 million. (which he'd never see)
I would not want every player beating a path to my door to redo a deal every time they felt they'd outplayed their current deal. Other players have contracts .... and those contracts are never 100% comparable to any other player's situation. The agent wants to find a favorable comparison ... so he pulls out the most extreme cases. No sensible person will redo a deal to the most extreme example any more than an agent will agree to cut a players salary because he's overpaid compared to certain other players. .
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I wonder how much the Canadians will offer him?
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
Cribbs side would argue that he's providing an intangible asset that hinders his ability to hit performance targets, the squib kick or kicking away from him, as his opportunities would naturally decrease as more teams refuse to kick to him. Now whether or not that's an actual asset depends on how good the opposing teams kicker is at squibs and kicking away from him and as those opportunities decrease, how valuable is that to the Browns?
Then put a clause in the deal that triggers a bonus at "X percentage of possessions following a kickoff by the opponent start at the Browns' 40-yard-line or better." There's value in being such a dangerous return man that teams would prefer to put a kickoff out of bounds and give you the ball at the 45 yard line or squib it to an up man instead of having you return the kickoff potentially for a huge gain or even a touchdown. They are ceding a more controllable good field position to ensure that the kickoff isn't returned for a score.
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#gmstrong
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Then you could count that as a performance bonus. He gets an extra $500,000 for every 10 squib kicks or kickoffs that go out of bounds. End of that argument.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
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If the average kickoff is caught at the 5 (for the sake of argument) and Cribbs average return is 27 yards we get the ball at the 32. If they kick it to the up guy and he gets stopped in that same relative range, what advantage is that for the Browns? All they've done is remove the threat of the kick being returned for more yards or a TD. The threat of Cribbs and ultimately his value is diminished. The only stat he leads in for kick-off or punt returns is TD's. He had 4 last season, total, while having 94 opportunities. He's only scoring .04% every time he touches the ball as a returner. He did have the third most opportunities on KO's but that was because of our porous defense and I think we can all certainly hope he see's fewer opportunities because it means other teams aren't scoring so much on us. That also means those percentages will drop. He's listed on NFL.com as a WR, though we all agree he's not a receiver. He had 1 TD receiving and 1 TD rushing last year. He scored 6 total TD's for us. DeSean Jackson who averaged more yards per punt return than Cribbs did, scored 2 TD's returning punts, caught 9 TD's and had 1 rushing. He scored twice as many TD's for the Eagles. You might say that comparing a 2nd rounder to an undrafted guy is not fair, the point is you can get over all more production out of another player. Cribbs is very good but very limited. If we can turn an undrafted player into a 2nd (or Davis/Snyder gives us a 1st  ) that's a great return on your investment, I'm good with it.
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Trading JC for a second rounder would better set this team up for the future than paying him rediculous money when he hasn't established himself much outside of special teams. If another team is willing to throw you a 2nd for an undrafted kick returner you run with it.
The Randel El situation comes to mind. Since being traded to the Redskins, what has he done to turn that offense around? Steeler came out on top of that one and so can we with Cribbs.
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Quote:
If the average kickoff is caught at the 5 (for the sake of argument) and Cribbs average return is 27 yards we get the ball at the 32. If they kick it to the up guy and he gets stopped in that same relative range, what advantage is that for the Browns?
If they choose to kick it short, the up man catches the ball at the 30 and easily get to the 40 or more each time. - I'm sure if keeping Josh Cribbs means that this will happen, Holmgren would fork over 5 mill a year right now.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cribbs contract/trade talks
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