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If Mickey Lolich can learn to throw left handed because his right arm was injured, Tim can learn to hold the ball higher.
First, it's been years since I've heard someone mention Mickey Lolich.. I had his card as a kid.
2nd.. I do not think that Tebow is what this team wants. It's obvious that DE and BQ have issues that we dont want them to have. I gotta think we lean toward getting caretaker FA QB and then fix defense and right side OL
IMO Tebow does not have any more up-side than BQ.
so why even?
I see a trade for QB as a possibility. Just as long as we don't over-pay.
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The second this team goes after Tebow is the second someone like Quinn has zero chance.
So IMHO we either take one of the best-bet QB's at the top of the draft, of which Tebow is NOT one, or we don't bother drafting one and go with a free agent vet who can come right in and start.
No in-between's with this situation.
I agree with that. Unless something changes big time, I would say the odds of Tebow being drafted by us is about nil.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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You are all gonna think I'm nuts, but if by some chance, Tebow should fall to us in the 3rd,, I wouldn't hesitate. the upside of him is probably better than just about any other player at that point.
Do I expect that to happen.,. hell no. Like I said in another post, someone will fall in love with him and snap him up in the 1st.. JMO however..
#GMSTRONG
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I would be shocked if he goes in the 1st.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I hope he meant like 7th pick in the 4th round.
I thought he meant 7th round................
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I would be shocked if he goes in the 1st.
The way this year is going so far,, nothing would surprise me....LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I was right about Reggie Bush when everyone was saying he wouldn't be successful in the NFL
I don't recall many saying Bush wouldn't be successful. Saying he won't be a big star is different than saying he won't be successful.
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Tebow will be the best QB to come out of the draft this year.
Peen, is that you?  I have no doubt that Tebow will be successful in the NFL. I doubt that it will be right away. And the best QB?......I doubt that as well.
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I also love how everyone said BQ's game would translate "very well" to the NFL game...we all have seen how that's worked out.
Judging someone's career off of twelve games with the talent on this team is a dangerous game to play. Hell, we managed to make Jeff Garcia look like a 2nd string MAC QB.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Well, I just watched this video.. not sure how many of you have. Say what you will about Tebow and all his faults,, If Holmgren meets him, he's gonna like him.. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-player-interviews/09000d5d81697e2d/Tebow-pre-combine-interviewMariucci is in this video and works him a little,, at the very end, he tells Tebow he could be his QB anytime.. this is from a Holmgren guy.... Just saying.. he's an interesting young man..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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and if bradford, clausen, Mccoy, lefevour interviews were posted.. you all would say the same..
interviews can be practiced.. staged.. mocked.. You are going to try to prethink answers to questions.. and perfect your answer to the T.
We all know Tebow is a high character guy regardless.. Lets see him on the field, and watch the tape. Same for anyone else.
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yeah, they are prepared,, they have to be and frankly, I gotta believe it's a good thing.
I also was speaking of his intelligence and understanding of his job.. And about the switch he's trying to make..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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ok so I will admit just once... I have been sold on Tebow for a while. Maybe it's because I see the whatever it takes attitude. Play smart Play hard Play hurt and go home and practice.
His stock will rise to the bottom of the first top of the 2nd IMO
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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I also think he's gonna go higher than some feel he will... anywhere from middle of the 1st round to the top of the second.. Just a guess, but I keep thinking someone is gonna fall in love with the guy..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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And it only takes one team...
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And it only takes one team...
Fixed it for ya.. yeah,, that's all it takes...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I don't know what you are talking about. 
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LOL You dog,, you went back and fixed it  Hey man,, sorry for your loss.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I also think he's gonna go higher than some feel he will... anywhere from middle of the 1st round to the top of the second.. Just a guess, but I keep thinking someone is gonna fall in love with the guy..
Tebow is one of the biggest poker chips in the draft... most everybody else is going to slowly work their way into a slot... top 5, late in the first round, whatever... and teams are going to know, roughly, if they want that guy, when they need to think about taking him... Tebow is the exception because I'm thinking a lot of teams would love to have him, but the "where do we need to draft him?" question has a huge range... late first... second... third... who knows.
yebat' Putin
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Holmgren: Changing throwing motion hardest thing to do Tebowmania peaked a short time ago here at Lucas Oil Stadium, when the Flordia quarterback drew the biggest Scouting Combine audience some veteran onlookers had ever seen. (Speaking at the same time, Packers coach Mike McCarthy had a sparse audience in attendance.) While most NFL types have praised Tebow all week, Browns grand poobah Mike Holmgren threw a dose of reality into the mix. Asked about Tebow changing his throwing motion, Holmgren said, "That's the most difficult thing to change in any quarterback. . . . It's hard to do, particularly in pressure situations." Tebow seemed to have fun with all the attention, but tried to downplay the changes. "I am holding the ball higher and not dropping [my elbow]. My release point of where I'm throwing the ball is not different at all," Tebow said. "It's how I got to that [point] that you would see the change. Tebow also said he'd be open to helping a team at any position if he's not a viable quarterback, which is a valuable piece of information to know in case Holmgren's words prove correct. web page
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As I said, throwing throwing motion isn't what he is changing.
Throwing motion changes from the back of the ear forward.
All that is being changed here is from that happens to the point the hand reaches the back of the ear.
It isn't that hard.
Tim's problems were what happened below the shoulder.....not that happened from the shoulder or above.
Getting his arm in to the right slot was never a problem...it was just the round about way he did so.
Now he is just working on a more direct way to what he has done all along.
That can be changed with reps..
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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It's still his throwing motion, and it's still extremely difficult to change.
I get that you like Tebow, and I have no problem with that, but don't try to downplay the challenges he face.
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I get that you like Tebow, and I have no problem with that, but don't try to downplay the challenges he face.
I think he IS Tebow 
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1st String
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saying he's not changing his throwing motion is a bit of a stretch. the wind up is part fo the throwing motion, in the same way the backswing is part of a golf swing.
this kid has 'fumble' written all over him.
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It's still his throwing motion, and it's still extremely difficult to change.
I get that you like Tebow, and I have no problem with that, but don't try to downplay the challenges he face.
Ok...sure....it's his throwing motion.....but it isn't all that hard to change what happens before he is in the throwing position.
If I am guilty of minimizing what he faces, others are just as guilty of making this sound like some unsurmountable challenge. It isn't.
Rather than drop the hand with the palm facing the ground, you bring the hand up and back.
Just like you teach a kid when you or he wants to switch him to catcher in baseball. All you are doing is getting him in to the throwing position sooner. At that point nothing changes in the way he throws the ball.
Sorry if I break the throwing motion down in to two phases(actually three, but I won't bore you) and don't consider it throwing motion until a player has the ball cocked and loaded.
Tebow has a mechanical flaw. Mechanics can be addressed. Especially one as easy to address as that.
Note I say easy as related to other flaws in mechanics. No doubt it takes work, reps, and a willing attitude.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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If I am guilty of minimizing what he faces, others are just as guilty of making this sound like some unsurmountable challenge. It isn't.
If someone like me says it's hard to do, there is an easy reason to discount my beliefs. (and I'm not saying it cause I don't know)
But when a guy like Holmgren, who has a reputation of knowing QB's, being a QB maker and is experienced and clearly knowlegable says it, then you have to give it some credibility.
I don't think you can dismiss it quite so easily. JMO of course.. but certainly something to think about..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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I guess we will find out over the next year or so.
If he can't throw without a loop in his delivery to the throwing point, he can't do it and he is either done as a qb or some team won't care if by and large he gets it done.
His problem was starting with the ball low. If you start with it low, you have to bring it up to throw....wasted motion, which in football terms is wasted time.....splits make a difference just as splits make a difference for a catcher in baseball. Catchers have a hard time against base stealers if they have a loop in their delivery. If so, they better be able to throw lasers to a foot above the bag nearly every time.
I don't think getting him to start with the ball up high is going to be all that hard....again, it is a problem if he has to bring the arm back down....you're actually making him worse and are better off if he starts low....
Again....we'll see...shrug.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Don't take what I said as a knock on Tebow.. go back and read what I've said about him.. I think he's a winner.. on and off the field so while I don't think he's a 1st round pick for us, I'd not mind him being drafted later..
I'm just saying, if Holmgren, who is a noted authority on the subject, says it's difficult, it's really hard to argue..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Don't take what I said as a knock on Tebow.. go back and read what I've said about him.. I think he's a winner.. on and off the field so while I don't think he's a 1st round pick for us, I'd not mind him being drafted later..
I'm just saying, if Holmgren, who is a noted authority on the subject, says it's difficult, it's really hard to argue..
I know.....I didn't take it as such....and to be honest, I don't really care if people knock him...I am used to that.
Tebow is one of those players you either like a great deal or dislike a great deal. There isn't much middle ground in where he is viewed.
Maybe I am wrong. Maybe the guy ends up a useless chump and ends up living under a bridge asking for handouts..
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Maybe I am wrong. Maybe the guy ends up a useless chump and ends up living under a bridge asking for handouts..
LOL,, no, I don't think we are gonna have to worry about that..
He's gonna be in the NFL.. What position he'll play is anyones guess.. But with his competitive nature, physical size and attitude and smarts,, this kid belongs in the Pros.
At 6'3", 240, depending on his hands,, could he play TE... I mean, he's an inch shorter than KW2 and the same weight... does he have the skills?
Just asking cause I really don't know...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Ok...sure....it's his throwing motion.....but it isn't all that hard to change what happens before he is in the throwing position.
If I am guilty of minimizing what he faces, others are just as guilty of making this sound like some unsurmountable challenge. It isn't.
Peen...I would say that you and Mike Holmgren disagree...Holmgren from the article above...
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While most NFL types have praised Tebow all week, Browns grand poobah Mike Holmgren threw a dose of reality into the mix.
Asked about Tebow changing his throwing motion, Holmgren said, "That's the most difficult thing to change in any quarterback. . . . It's hard to do, particularly in pressure situations."
Tebow seemed to have fun with all the attention, but tried to downplay the changes.
That point made...during this period of time before the NFL draft, we fans never know if the person talking is being 100% honest or playing draft games. Holmgren is in a perfect position to create a smoke screen since we are discussing QBs and he knows he has the media chasing him around just waiting for any comment about any player but especially when the comment is about a QB.
When it comes to opinions about potential draftees, it is nearly impossible for fans to figure out what might be honest opinion or smoke screen. Also, with this being Holmgren's first year with the Browns and his first year as a President in the front office, Browns fans are in uncharted waters when it comes to knowing how to interpret Mike Holmgren's comment about Tebow.
If the Browns would draft Tebow in the 2nd round I would guess this opinion on Tebow's throwing motion is meant as a smoke screen. But with this being the draft season, we have no way of knowing how to take Holmgren's comment.
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I for one, am glad nobody dicked around with Kosar.
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ooooorah...I agree...that throwing motion is part of Bernie's history now and as we Browns fans know...he did pretty damn good with that motion.
Holmgren's comment about Tebow's throwing motion...trying to change it now, could be an honest opinion by Holmgren based on his experience with NFL QBs for a long time...and some of the NFL greatest QBs.
At this time, draft season, there is just no way of knowing if this could be a smoke screen by Holmgren.
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At this time, draft season, there is just no way of knowing if this could be a smoke screen by Holmgren
LOL,, I wondered about that also..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Ok...sure....it's his throwing motion.....but it isn't all that hard to change what happens before he is in the throwing position.
If I am guilty of minimizing what he faces, others are just as guilty of making this sound like some unsurmountable challenge. It isn't.
Peen...I would say that you and Mike Holmgren disagree...Holmgren from the article above...
Quote:
While most NFL types have praised Tebow all week, Browns grand poobah Mike Holmgren threw a dose of reality into the mix.
Asked about Tebow changing his throwing motion, Holmgren said, "That's the most difficult thing to change in any quarterback. . . . It's hard to do, particularly in pressure situations."
Tebow seemed to have fun with all the attention, but tried to downplay the changes.
That point made...during this period of time before the NFL draft, we fans never know if the person talking is being 100% honest or playing draft games. Holmgren is in a perfect position to create a smoke screen since we are discussing QBs and he knows he has the media chasing him around just waiting for any comment about any player but especially when the comment is about a QB.
When it comes to opinions about potential draftees, it is nearly impossible for fans to figure out what might be honest opinion or smoke screen. Also, with this being Holmgren's first year with the Browns and his first year as a President in the front office, Browns fans are in uncharted waters when it comes to knowing how to interpret Mike Holmgren's comment about Tebow.
If the Browns would draft Tebow in the 2nd round I would guess this opinion on Tebow's throwing motion is meant as a smoke screen. But with this being the draft season, we have no way of knowing how to take Holmgren's comment.
I agree Mac and was a little perplexed with what Holmgren said.
I mean, no doubt, he knows more about it than I, but changing how a person takes a ball back isn't that darn hard to change.
I speak from a baseball perspective, but throwing is throwing.
Now if we were talking arm angle...taking a kid who throws side arm and trying to get him throwing overhand...or even 3/4...that is hard if not impossible to change....sometimes the hinges only works one way, but how and where a player holds the ball....all coachable stuff.
Like I said, if he can learn to hold the ball up near the ear but still has to loop the arm down near the waist...I agree, that won't work. If he can hold the ball up and say loop his arm down around the armpit, top of the rib cage, that can be overlooked.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Nice observation.
Wait for it,, someone will say that the comparisons aren't on the money because............... Then you will get a host of reasons..... 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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I will personally say the ceiling for Tebow is Steve Young. However Tebow would need GREAT talent around him. I've personally felt the spread offense is like the west coast offense on cocaine. However I stand by what I've said before Tebow will NOT make it in the league as a QB.
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J/C, Ballpeen
For what its worth, it seems to me that most of the lefties had longer deliveries ... more of a wind-up than the classic righty passers (ie, Namath, Marino) - maybe its a lefty thing? I don't think its nearly as important as some here. I don't even think it the biggest challenge that Tebow faces in his conversion to the NFL game.
Lets take a scientific theory outlook on that and say maybe it is a lefty thing.. Consider that 10% of the population is left handed. We can also assume that their parents or the parents of their parents may be righty. As they grow up, a right handed person may have difficulties with showing them how to do things that soley rely on their preferred arm because it's on a different side.. What that could lead to is just a kid finding a way that works which ends up being different than how a righty would do it just to please their teacher..
Down the road, the same thing occurs. Righty teaches Lefty but lefty cannot do it the righty way, but develop their own way that works... Even lets say the lefty has another lefty to teach them... which way do you think the lefty will be teaching them? The lefty way which will be easily taught to another lefty because another lefty knows how another lefty would be comfortable. So down the lines of human development, lefties have forged their own methods of performing tasks that may differ slightly or largely from how righties will do it..
But do you have any pictures of righties to compare? 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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On the lefty thing,...."most" kids who can throw left-handed were also thrust into baseball in their developmental years (10-15) as pitchers; hence, my theory is, they got a lot of "windup" work,....??
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,096 Likes: 134 |
Quote:
I will personally say the ceiling for Tebow is Steve Young.
I for one wouldn't mind that at all.... We could and have done a helluva lot worse at QB than Steve Young....
Quote:
However Tebow would need GREAT talent around him.
Most do!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Timmy Tebow to unveil new delivery
at Pro Day
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