DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum *** Cavs February/March Thread - Part Trois ***

Other thread was getting to it's limit, so time for a new one ...

Important notice for those who aren't aware ... please refrain from posting any news from Twitter, as it is apparently against the rules. I don't want anybody getting hit with a multi-day ban for breaking a rule that nobody knows about.

Ironically, here is a story that was first reported on Twitter (but is now up on the PD site) squashing an "official story" from yahoo news saying that Z would not be able to resign with the Cavs.


http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/02/nba_source_league_would_not_ba.html

NBA source: League would not ban Ilgauskas return
Dan Gadzuric

An NBA source denies that the league will block Zydrunas Ilgauskas from returning to the Cavaliers if he is bought out by Washington.

An NBA source denied a report that the league would prevent Zydrunas Ilgauskas from returning to the Cavaliers. A high ranking source who requested anonymity said there was no truth to a report from the Los Angeles Times claiming that the league would try to prevent Ilgauskas' return to Cleveland if and/or when he is bought out by the Washington Wizards because the deal was previously agreed upon by the teams. There is no evidence of any such agreement. Ilgauskas' agent Herb Rudoy said on Monday that there was no previous arrangement. Ilgauskas was sent to Washington on Wednesday as part of the three-team deal that brought Antawn Jamison to Cleveland.

According to Cavs coach Mike Brown, Jamison, who has been coming off the bench, is likely to make his first start with the Cavs on Tuesday night against New Orleans. Also, forward Leon Powe, recovering from microfracture surgery on his left knee, said he had been cleared by team doctors to play. If Brown activates him on Tuesday, he could make his season debut against the Hornets.

Well since theirs only 6 more days you might have to change the title of it pretty soon

Better?

Actually, Danny Ferry was really, really careful when it came to questions about Z ... probably just for this very reason.

All he would say was how much he appreciated Z, but that Z was now a member of the Wizards.

Is anyone concerned about Andy having reduced minutes? I can understand why against Orlando but the same thing happened against Charlotte.

I'm surprised that Andy wouldn't have MORE minutes now, seeing as how him and Shaq are our only two centers at the moment.

Like I said I could understand using JJ Hickson's athleticism against Dwight. I don't understand what happened against Charlotte though.

Well honestly ... they just got Jamison, and he has two months to get it together with Shaq and the rest of the starters. We haven't had any time for practices, so I can see them giving the two of them increased minutes and hope for them to learn by fire a bit.

Our frontcourt is stacked right now. Maybe too stacked.

What does everyone think of starting LBJ at PG, Mo at SG, JJ and AJ at the F spots and Shaq at center? With the depth we have with our bigs right now, this may be our best lineup.

LBJ and Mo can be flip flopped easily as they both have a connection and share duties anyway.

With AV, Delonte, Powe, Gibson, and AP coming off the bench as the 2nd team (small ball) this has the potential to be a ridiculous lineup.

I didn't think AJ was all that great a ball handler. (for him to play PG in your lineup.)

I'd still want to see Mo in the starting lineup so that he could get his touches and find his rhythm.

I think 1st team of what you said works

Mo - PG
LBJ - SG
JJ Hickson - SF (He seems to be slashing to the rim nice)
Jamison - PF
Shaq - C

Second team
West - PG
Gibson - SG
AV - PF/C
Fill the other two with however matchup dictates.

Hopin we get Z Back *fingers crossed*

yeah....there's a reason why these lineups aren't used....they would get eaten alive.

You have to have outside shooting to get enough spacing to get your guys to the rim.

Just rejoice in the fact that we have enough bigs to survive the foul mess that the playoffs turn into.

~Lyuokdea

no doubt. If we can get Z back we're going to look in real good shape

Looking forward to seeing Powe play tonight. He's another new piece to the puzzle, but he's been practicing with the team, so he'll be MUCH farther along into fitting in than Jamison.

It should be quite fun to watch.

So am I, doubt I'll be already to see it, but will be updating the box score reguarly. I also doubt he plays more than 5-8 min tonight.

j/c

NBA investigates a lot, catches very little...

Beyond the ordinary warnings that come on the trade call and with league memos, the NBA delivered a deeper admonition to the Cleveland Cavaliers: We’re watching on Zydrunas Ilgauskas(notes), watching everything and don’t let us find a hint of evidence that a prearranged deal has been set up for his return once he gets his buyout with the Washington Wizards.

NBA officials ought to confess to an irrefutable truth: Unless teams are completely careless and foolish – Jerry Stackhouse(notes) declared he was taking a 30-day vacation and returning to Dallas before he’d even been traded – the league is powerless, if not unmotivated, to police itself.

NBA officials can’t catch teams. Truth be told, they don’t want to catch teams. This is a league full of side deals. Do you think teams clearing cap space aren’t working on potential deals with players? You’re kidding yourself. The phone calls come and go every day.

“No emails,” one agent said. “Never put anything in an email.”

There’s the NBA general manager who called an agent every week a season ago, trying to convince the rep to push his unhappy star to force a trade to his team. Discussions between executives and agents about the free-agent class of 2010 – even 2011 – are well under discussion. Yes, it’s called tampering, and it’s called about as often as the carry.

No one gets caught and no one gets punished. The NBA is the ultimate “don’t-ask-don’t-tell” league. It’s always investigating something, and always giving everyone a pass. To get caught, it takes a complete idiot. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of improper discussions and, ultimately, deals that take place every month, every year. No one gets busted because the league is mostly interested that everyone just stays discreet.

“The only way you’re going to screw this up,” one NBA GM said, “is if you get cute and have to tell everyone how smart you are.”

Only one organization has ever been caught in the past decade with a secret deal. Glen Taylor, the Minnesota Timberwolves owner, cut an $86 million under-the-table contract with Joe Smith(notes). He made the mistake of committing to it in writing. David Stern called it “fraud of major proportion … fraud that ripped to the heart of the [CBA] compact. The magnitude of this stuff is shocking.”

After Taylor lost some draft picks and $3.5 million in fines, do you know what the NBA did with him?

Elected him chairman of the board of governors.

Twice.

This is the backdrop of the Ilgauskas story. The Cavs traded him with a first-round draft pick to Washington for Antawn Jamison(notes) at the trade deadline, and rest assured: They never, ever doubted for a moment they were losing him. Almost no one believes Cleveland would’ve made that trade had it truly believed Ilgauskas was gone for good.

Does it mean this was a prearranged deal?

Or just an assumption?

Whatever. It is what it is. Z is coming back to the Cavs, and there isn’t a soul in the NBA who believes differently.

Here’s the one political thing the Cavs have going for them: Cleveland executives have watched numerous officials, from Knicks executives to Nets minority owners, publicly tamper with LeBron James(notes) and never heard an admonishment from the league office. It feeds a conspiracy belief that David Stern wants James in New York. So how could the NBA get in the way of Ilgauskas now, without it looking like the league has an agenda to derail the Cavs’ title chase and, ultimately, their re-signing of James?

Also understand: As much as anyone ever, Ilgauskas has the cover story of circumstance. He’s Mr. Cavalier, maybe the most beloved player in franchise history – outside of No. 23. One year, he delayed contract negotiations so the organization could sign some teammates. He missed entire seasons with foot injuries, collecting millions without playing a minute. This season, Ilgauskas was finishing the final year of a $55 million contract that included the gifting of this final season at $11.5 million, especially generous considering the injuries that plagued him early in his career.

He married a Cleveland girl, adopted two young Eastern European children and will likely live the rest of his life in Ohio. After 13 years, do you think he’s going to walk away from the best team in Cavs history, from a chance to finally win a title, to chase a championship as a mercenary with perfect strangers in Atlanta and Dallas?

Nevertheless, everyone has to play along. The Cavs had to bid Ilgauskas an emotional farewell. Ilgauskas’ agent, Herb Rudoy, had to say his client is intrigued with the interest of those contenders. Washington has to pretend that, hey, maybe we won’t buy out his contract, maybe we don’t have to do it. The NBA isn’t as interested in the prearranged deal as they are with the appearance of it.

Ilgauskas has every reason to return to Cleveland, especially since the Cavs can pay him the prorated portion of their $2.1 million biannual exception. Just a year ago, this wasn’t the case with Antonio McDyess(notes). He went from Detroit to Denver in the Chauncey Billups(notes)-Allen Iverson trade and gave back $6 million to take a buyout with the Nuggets.

The NBA probed the teams, the way it always does. After the buyout, the Cavs and Celtics made bids for McDyess. He turned them down and returned to the Pistons. After that, a league source says, the NBA really watched free agency and whether the Pistons would overbid for McDyess. That way, the thought goes, they could’ve repaid him for “going along” with a plan.

Well, the Pistons didn’t do it. McDyess took the San Antonio Spurs’ offer, and the NBA had to move on. Mostly , the league is just wagging its finger, making threats it’ll never carry out.

Ilgauskas will get bought out soon, and he’ll be back in the Cavs’ lineup before March Madness is over. And in the end, the price of Antawn Jamison, perhaps the final chip to a championship, will be the 29th or 30th pick in the 2010 draft. That’s all. Business as usual in the Don’t-Ask, Don’t-Tell NBA.

that sounds about right to me

All of this over a 34-year old center possibly being bought out and going to a team he freely chooses.

I smell fear.

What are you talking about?

Huh?

i also find it funny that there was a quote from lebron last week after the knicks cleared more space. and somehow i didn't read it on bspn or any other major sports news outlet.

"I don't think too much or get too involved in teams trying to clear cap space."

hm. if lebron had said how awesome it was that the bricks cleared all this space, you know for damn sure that'd be on every headline of bspn, yahoo sports, etc..

it's hilarious. ever see that southpark episode spontaneous combustion? i think that's what happens to bristol if lbj sticks around.

either that, or they just deny existence.

"in other news, lebron james won his 7th straight nba championship last night at the quicken loans arena, but back to A-Rod...."

It is definitely fear. Also, the media does not want Cleveland to be dominant. They want everyone to think we are terrible and have not done LeBron right to make the masses push for him to go to New York. I do not understand the infactuation that the media has with LeBron in New York, but until he sign his next contract with us, this hate is not going away.

I cannot wait for that day so that all the talking heads will just shut their mouth. Their fear is that we are going to be too good, and too stacked for LeBron to even consider leaving, not that I ever really thought he was going to anyway.

I don't think it's hate, I just think the media doesn't understand yet that the Cavs w/ LeBron = a big market team.

LeBron himself is a marketing machine that creates the market. Just look at how much $$$ Gilbert can spend, while still turning a profit. There is a reason that teams like NO cannot do that even with a superstar like Chris Paul and it is not just because their owner is cheap.

LeBron sells shoes/merchandise in NY despite not playing there....same across the country....and in China, Japan, Europe. He's recognizeable....he's likeable....he's crafted his image carefully and he has many people in place to make sure he makes smart business decisions.

But, I think the media is slowly coming to grips with it. If LeBron resigns here, we will be considered a big market team. There will be stories about it and they will point to the trades that Danny Ferry has been doing to prove it (continually taking on $$$ while jettisoning expiring contracts....just like the big market teams do).

it just seems like they make it out to be that he's destined to leave, that no matter what happens. he's gone.

people will say "oh, well if they don't win this year, he's gonna leave so he can go and win"

and then they turn around and say "if he wins, he'll consider his job in cleveland done and go and play for the new york bricks"

seriously? who leaves a championship team? does anyone honestly think he's gonna leave a champion to go and play in a rebuilding project?

that's what the knicks are. and don't be fooled by them clearing space. they have stripped that team down to nothing. 2 guys won't make them a contender. they have no bench, and they probably will lose david lee should they sign 2 guys to a max deal. remember, they will need money to sign role guys. they will be a better team next year, but no true contender.

not to mention their garbage coach and his garbage style of play that is proven to not work in the nba.

ok, I misunderstood then....when you said 'proven not to work' I took it differently.

still...don't know whether or not they could have won a championship with that last JoeJ team....he doesn't break his face, they at least get out of that series with the Spurs.

people can rag on mike brown's offense. and at times, deservedly so, sometimes our offensive sets look worse than a high school coach's plays.

but once playoffs come around, that is where mb earns his paycheck. he does a really good job between games of setting up his guys to be in a good position. i serously think he tried every single matchup last year against orlando. we had no answer, but he still made it a series despite our inability to defend howard 1 on 1, and the ridiculously hot shooting of orlando.

that's why i don't care about losing streaks now, it's meaningless. it's about april. all i care about is having this team ready to play in april, and having everyone healthy.

best record would be nice. but you gotta win on the road. i think the cavs kinda let off a little bit when they won the nba version of the president's trophy, and i don't blame they, they were 39-1 at home in games where starters started and they probably figured they'd coast at home. sure enough orlando hit them hard in game 1.

gotta win on the road. plain and simple. i think tomorrow is huge. this boston team isn't the same. i watched them last night against the knicks. they just aren't that defensive juggernaut that they used to be for a year. but it would still be great for this team to win there and kinda get things rolling again. and i really really love what i see from jamison. just wait until he gets settled.

I have to ask...what have you seen from Jamison??? I haven't had the opportunity to watch them the last few games...and I the one where I did catch a bit was his first game and I wasn't expecting anything...So just wondering how he is starting to fit in....

I saw the replay of the big dunk he had late last night....but when all of the guys were whoopin and hollerin and gettin up for him he kept that game face on....now it just may have been that one play...I don't know, as I mentioned, I haven't seen the games...but is he starting to fit in....I don't know....socially???? Or is he showing that he is happy to be there and is having a good time as this team usually shows??? Is he fitting in that dynamic as well??? Not sure I worded that well but I hope you get the gist....

without the soul patch on the back of his head.

Drew Gooden can't read. So glad when we got rid of him. Guy has no heart of intensity.