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Quote:
After years of closed doors, there's a lot to admire about Mike Holmgren's fresh air with Browns: Bud Shaw's Sunday Sports Spin
By Bud Shaw, The Plain Dealer
March 14, 2010, 5:22AM
Hearing Mike Holmgren share his plans for the Browns, this must be what the Soviets felt like when Mikhail Gorbachev introduced the concept of "glasnost" after decades of secrecy.
If Holmgren insists on being forthcoming, if he keeps communicating with fans through the media in such respectful ways, he's going to have a hard time matching the management styles of the top men who've gone before him.
What gives with this guy?
Where's the camouflage?
Simple personnel matters and the reasons behind them were communicated by past regimes with all the detail found in the plume of white smoke signifying a new Pope in the Vatican.
Where's the absolute silence for weeks at a time?
Here's Holmgren on quarterback Brady Quinn's future:
"It all depends on what else we can do," Holmgren told the PD's Tony Grossi Friday. "We are continuing to look for and evaluate quarterbacks."
Even before the Browns signed Jake Delhomme on Saturday, Quinn had to read that and know it's time to move on. The boss, who is especially versed in quarterbacks, hasn't seemed the least bit intrigued by you.
If you're Quinn, you finish your 150th bench press of the morning, give your Shaun Smith voodoo doll one last wiggle with a well-placed needle, and turn the page on your Cleveland career.
Here's what Holmgren said on Friday about Delhomme:
"Delhomme is an ongoing discussion ... he still is on radar," Holmgren said. "But I did tell this to Jake: 'While you're debating what you want to do, I've got to keep going.' We're not just sitting on our hands waiting for something to happen.
"I don't want to be left standing at the altar."
Delhomme apparently got the message.
Hey, people here know the feeling. They've been at the altar for decades now, waiting for the Browns to live up to promises, waiting for a forever relationship built on sharing and caring.
If Holmgren isn't careful, he's going to make lasting connections with the people who've been buying tickets and living and dying with this team since 1964. Of course, to do so will require more than being up front and meaning what he says. He'll have to be right about Seneca Wallace and Delhomme. He'll have to be right far more than he's wrong.
So far, Wallace isn't moving the PR needle. Delhomme was so bad last year he won't either. But quarterbacks are what Holmgren knows.
He has to get that right, or the team and fans will be in immediate need of more counseling. But at least they might feel like they're in this together for the first time in a while.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Daman. Holmgren is what this team needed for years. Too bad the Delhomme signing has many of the "greatest fans in football" already throwing him under the bus.
We do have some of the greatest fans, but we also have some of the worst.
#gmstrong
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Ahh, there is always going to be some that find something wrong.. we could win a Superbowl next season with a rejuvanated Tim Couch and I guarantee you someone will bring up something about how he cried in the locker room after getting a concussion 10 years ago.... GUARANTEED.....  I'm no Shaw fan.. mostly I think he's a dweeb... But he's hit on something here. I can't remember when we've had a GM or President that appeared to be both honest and smart and at ease enough with his decision making to speak openly with the Press.. Maybe Butch Davis,, but even then, it appeared he was trying to sell a bill of goods.. Holmgren doesn't appear to be selling anything to anybody. It's wierd, He doesn't seem to care.. he just seems to go about his business and that's that..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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when i read that, i thought that was the most positive thing i've ever read from bud shaw about anyone.
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Yeah Dong,,, me to.. my first thought was, what is up with Shaw? 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Musta caught Shaw on a good day; this sounds peachier and Sunshine Bright compared to some of the PD things. Speaking of which . . . any media stuff coming out by Pluto? 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Holmgren doesn't appear to be selling anything to anybody. It's wierd, He doesn't seem to care.. he just seems to go about his business and that's that..
Totally agree.. Holgram dosent play the game..or a game, we've seem so many GM's get caught up in smoke screens, get caught up with power, they end up caring more about how they look instead of doing thier job. Mike dosent have to play that game, Mike does his job first, he tells it like he see's it and if it works out wrong he will also be the first to say he got it wrong, Were not use to the truth or a here how it is and here how it's gonna be approch.
Nowdays the truth is a breath of fresh air.
Mike dosent play the game he just does his job.
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Holmgren doesn't appear to be selling anything to anybody. It's wierd, He doesn't seem to care.. he just seems to go about his business and that's that..
that's EXACTLY what we've needed all along. what is any regime doing listening to football fans to begin with? time and time again, we as a fanbase proved to be totally moronic in who we like and who we don't like. i love that holmgren has the cajones to just stick to his plans. i think mangini is the same type and i really hope the two coexist for a while, which i must be the only one in thinking it's really gonna happen.
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At what could heave been a press "Inquisition" had the communications challenged Mangini been in charge, the unflappable Holmgren in a BIG GRANDPA style, smiled and chided and joked with the press. They gave him softball questions and seemed cajoled by a man who had just traded #1,#2 pick QB Quinn for basically, nothing and smiled and laughed like Big Mike has a plan. Then Big Mike turns some questions to Mangini who has that" christmas story" look on his face that he is not going to catch hell from his dad and he relaxes with the press. Mangini did not want Quinn under any circumstance and Granpa Mike took care of his chubby little Grandson and had the press eating out of his hand. That said I HATE we gave away Quinn. I hate it was to the Broncos and I am no fane of what we have on board. That said, what has big Granpa Mike done. He got a very solid TE to allow horrid Robert Royal back to the bench, He got more RB help for Harrison, he got a solid RT to replace "turnstile" St. Clair. He felt Wimbley was not worth the top salary and had topped out as a pretty good player and liked other candidates at OL, one is Scott Fujita. By seasons end it was Roth and Bernard that were supplying QB heat more so than the departed Wimbley. Having Heckert and Holmgren with 12 picks is light years beyond anyone the last decade we have had manning the draft. When that is over you can bet QBs Wallace and Delhomme will have FAR more talent around them than DA or Quinn had. Mangini axing Winslow before and Dumping Edwards early in season left Both QBs in serious trouble with the WORST WR CORP in the NFL, throw in a horrid TE, RT, and punch drunk Lewis, and Peyton Manning would have struggled with this cast.... But Big Mike made the press eat out of his hand like baby chicks, protected his Coach from what would have been a tribunal, and is stocking the pantry with talent. I just wish the "QB Guru" had seen enough in Quinn to keep him. I want to believe it was only that and not the smoldering, festering, relationship that Mangini had with the departed Quinn. I say that because i think not only did Quinn Know he was being shoved out the door, by putting his home for sale when the team was 1-10, the fans were howling for Mangini's neck, Mangini was stubbornly sticking with 20QB rating Anderson, and I add that Quinns actions lit those glowing embers under Mangini with the press. Quinn played, but he FORCED Manginis hand, and the King of Queens was going to banish this jester. Holmgren's masterful display of how to deal with the press, putting no spin on releasing the QB of the future Quinn was something I ave not seen since Rutigliano. No one even questioned Mangini about any details of why and by the time Mike turned the questins to the coach Mangini was so full of relief I thought he would burst with appreciation. I think Mangini in that moment was eating out of Holmgren's hand in the same manner. Quinn was gone, here is what we got, we like our new QBs, trust me, you are going to like what you see. While I again must agree that losing Quinn for so little was unsettling, How Holmgren protected his Coach, handled the press, explained where the team was and where they were going had to impress. I had initially thought the egos of Holmgren and Mangini could not exist together, and in the end it may not, but on that day I believe I saw real respect for how the new team president spared the cornered coach from a press inquisition and turned the entire presser into a PR moment for the Team. 
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JC.
Not sure why so many are sure Delhomme is going to suck.
I'll hold out judgement til I see him on the field in Orange and Brown, but did help take the Panthers to a Superbowl in 2004-2005, a Conference Championship game in 2005-2006, and the playoffs in 2008-2009.
TD-INT: 123-94
QB Rating: 82.1
So he can play.
Let's see if last year was a fluke or a sign of the end, before we boo him out of offseason workouts.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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the biggest worry is that 2 seasons ago he started unfolding a bit and then completely collapsed against the cards in the playoff game.
last year, with an amazing running game backing him up, it was basically that Cardinals game over and over.
plus, he's 35 years old and if he has hit the wall, there's little chance of coming back from it.
and finally, how his career played out:
1. he seemed destined to be a NFL backup, playing sparingly for the Saints for his first 5 years.
2. He then had an okay 1st season with the Panthers followed by 3 pretty good ones.
3. An injured year followed by an okay year with a horrible ending and then a horrible year.
---------------------------------------
those are the worries, but he is a Brown now and I am going to keep watching that superbowl game where he played brilliantly and remind myself that the only guy who could catch passes in Carolina was Steve Smith (including their RBs and TEs).
there's a chance he regains his form like Kurt Warner did in Arizona and that is the chance we must cling onto.
#gmstrong
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All of the negatives about Delhomme are all well and good I guess,,
But this is a different team, different time and place..
Who knows what's going to happen. I mean I know that his career appears to be trending downward, but that doesn't mean he can't have a decent year as a starter and perhaps another decent year as a back up to the new kid on the block..
I'm not looking for him to come in and pull a Brett Favre from last year.. I'm really looking for him to come in, be a mentor, solidify that position for a year until someone can be prepared to take over. Then maybe hang around another year to be the mentor..
That would actually be an improvement over what we had here. So for me, thats what I expect...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Not sure why so many are sure Delhomme is going to suck.
I
+ 1
and if we can get a couple more OL in here, it could be his best year.
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No way it will be his best year. He has had some of the best olines and running game to go along with one of the best WRs over the past few seasons. He has no of that to work with here in Cleveland.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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Can we wait and see ? Jeesh.. It's not like we are use to even "decent" QB play lately. This is what was available to MH and this is what we got.
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I dont need to smell manure to know it stinks. Delbum is done.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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I dont need to smell manure to know it stinks. Delbum is done.
THis coming from someone with Andra Davis in their username
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I have explained my username numerous times on here. It stems from the old boards back in 04/05 when fans were outraged that he wasnt a probowler. Called it the biggest snub ever yadda yadda. Ok "DEATHdawg"?
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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I have explained my username numerous times on here. It stems from the old boards back in 04/05 when fans were outraged that he wasnt a probowler. Called it the biggest snub ever yadda yadda. Ok "DEATHdawg"?
I remember Bro, just making fun. I was on the old boards too, but with a different name. NOT CoachB  .
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Just this. he doesn't seem to like the Delhomme signing much
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2010/03/terry_plutos_talkin_about_jake.html
Imagine that, a top veteran sportswriter who does not share your rose colored view of either the Quinn trade or the Delhomme acquisition. I agree with Pluto more than any writer on the Browns, he calls em as he sees em. No orange Pom Poms for dubious moves.
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Legend
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Quote:
Imagine that, a top veteran sportswriter who does not share your rose colored view of either the Quinn trade or the Delhomme acquisition. I agree with Pluto more than any writer on the Browns, he calls em as he sees em. No orange Pom Poms for dubious moves.
Wonderful,, we have one reporter (respected yes indeed he is) saying it may not have been a good move and about 30 (some equally respected, others not so much) saying it was a wise move..
Just because I posted it, doesn't mean I agree..
Quinn WAS NOT GOING TO BE THE STARTER HERE.. why keep him?
DA WAS NOT GOING TO B E THE STARTER HERE..... why keep him and his salary?
Holmgren, Heckert and I assume to some degree, Mangini made that decision..
Now, you can groan on and on about it, and you may if you wish continue to make reference to various sandwiches if it makes you happy, but I doubt it changes anyones mind...
I have an idea,,, keep all these responses that I and others have made to your posts.. IF, you turn out to be right on ANYTHING.. feel free to come back in a year or two,, and make us eat crow...
We actually like it with a little butter and salt,,, Yumm
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
Imagine that, a top veteran sportswriter who does not share your rose colored view of either the Quinn trade or the Delhomme acquisition. I agree with Pluto more than any writer on the Browns, he calls em as he sees em. No orange Pom Poms for dubious moves.
Wonderful,, we have one reporter (respected yes indeed he is) saying it may not have been a good move and about 30 (some equally respected, others not so much) saying it was a wise move..
Just because I posted it, doesn't mean I agree..
Quinn WAS NOT GOING TO BE THE STARTER HERE.. why keep him?
DA WAS NOT GOING TO B E THE STARTER HERE..... why keep him and his salary?
Holmgren, Heckert and I assume to some degree, Mangini made that decision..
Now, you can groan on and on about it, and you may if you wish continue to make reference to various sandwiches if it makes you happy, but I doubt it changes anyones mind...
I have an idea,,, keep all these responses that I and others have made to your posts.. IF, you turn out to be right on ANYTHING.. feel free to come back in a year or two,, and make us eat crow...
We actually like it with a little butter and salt,,, Yumm
Oooh I agree the need to mock the sportswriter must be important since he does not hold your august thoughts on the trade, you have many( 30 you say) who agree with you. We all agree however that while Quinn was unwanted by the staff here he has been pursued by Denver over a year. by waiting they made a laughable steal instead of a deal. But hey, I agree in your world we got the better end of this three beans for a cow trade, we get to actually see that, and I don't need to Come back and prove to you in a year or two anything, who cares. the deal will pay dividends in Denver much sooner and I will add it will bring me no joy to be right on this. It is my profound Hope I am 100% wrong. I want Hillis to be a great back and believe Quinn had plenty of chances and Denver got squat and i will add that the NEED to relish in mocking Quinn to justify a dubious trade is your zone of {expertise}.
I am 100% certain of this: should Jake and Wallace flounder and the team stinks and Quinn does well, Mangini is H I S T O R Y. AS far as PR, The King of Queens put all his chips down and gave Quinn away. many browns fans and Football writers believe and reiterated by Hall o Fame Corner Rob Woodson on NFL Network that the deal made NO SENSE for the Browns. I share HIS views 100%. we will see next season with the wonderback Willis and Jake and Seneca leading the charge...sends chills...
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Figured this could go here as well as anywhere.
Seneca Wallace IS, WAS, and ALWAYS WILL BE better than Quinn.
Jake Delholme IS, WAS, and ALWAYS will be better than Anderson.
Obviously these are opinions.
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
John Barrymore
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WOW,,, Quote:
I am 100% certain of this: should Jake and Wallace flounder and the team stinks and Quinn does well, Mangini is H I S T O R Y.
WHY? It's completely clear that Holmgren is pulling the strings on these moves.. Why would Mangini be in Trouble? that makes absolutly NO SENSE..
Quote:
AS far as PR, The King of Queens put all his chips down and gave Quinn away.
What is so hard to understand about this.. I mean,, this is insane.. This is the last time I'm going to try..
If there was a better deal for Quinn, I'm CERTAIN they would have taken it.
SO, essentially, they got the best deal they could...
Now whats that say that 31 other teams didn't jump on him and offer more. If he were anywhere near the player you seem to think he is, the question is, why wasn't there a bidding war?
NOW,, Answer that... and if you can't, then perhaps it's time you go back to work in the deli....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joe was a member of the Brady Bunch and ticked the show was canceled.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Joe was a member of the Brady Bunch and ticked the show was canceled.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Let's not forget that we don't know the full details of the trade yet. There is an conditional pick out there. It could be anywhere from: If Quinn is the opening day starter in 2011 then we get Denver's 1st round pick in 2012 to we get their 2012 7th round pick unless Quinn is league MVP in 2011. Obviously those are extremes to demonstrate a point. The point being that this conditional pick can have significant influence over how good or bad this trade turns out to be.
Procrastination is caused by the fear of success
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i read on a donks borad its a conditional 6th that can become a 4th. nothing official, but it sounds bout right.
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I must have read the same thing cause that's what I remember also.. unofficially...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Joe was a member of the Brady Bunch and ticked the show was canceled.
Was he the one who made it jump the shark?
"Ham sandwiches and applesauce..."
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From Hey Tony! Hey, Tony: What are the terms of the conditional draft pick in 2012 that we received from the Broncos when we traded Brady? -- Casey Valentine, Dublin, Ohio
Hey, Casey: The terms have not been identified. This raises the obvious question: why? What's the super secret? Why do NFL teams conceal trade terms? The NFL is the only league that does that. Having said that, I would say not to get excited about the 2012 pick. First, the 2012 draft currently does not exist in the language of the NFL collective bargaining agreement. Hopefully, the draft will be reinstituted in its present form when a new CBA is in place. But the point is, nothing in 2012 is guaranteed. Second, I would suspect it would be no higher than a fifth-round pick even if Quinn takes the Broncos to the Super Bowl, wins the MVP award and surpasses Tom Brady's NFL touchdown record.
Procrastination is caused by the fear of success
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Right now anything you read in the conditions is pure speculation.
Procrastination is caused by the fear of success
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daman, sometimes i think you're too nice. why you bother to keep responding is beyond me.
i sure wish we could trade him for a ham sandwich.
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daman, sometimes i think you're too nice. why you bother to keep responding is beyond me.
i sure wish we could trade him for a ham sandwich.
But could you ever get a ham sandwich that is that cheesy?
#GMSTRONG
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I don't like giving up on folks I guess.. But I'm pretty much done...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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FYI guys - I just finished lunch. Yes you guessed it. Ham and cheese sandwich. Very yummy.
Procrastination is caused by the fear of success
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Posts: 814 |
I agree your posts are funny but I believe mangini was instrumental in removing quinn and should we flounder with our 2010 options mangini IS in trouble. Yet I can understand that such a jump in logic must seem like "extra Cheese".
I also agree Holmgren did what he had to do as I believe Quinn embarrassed the king of Queens by the whole house for sale fiasco when the season was going up in flames around Mangini. The 20 QB rating by Anderson and the Publicity stunt forced the king's hand and that was that.
I agree holmgren did what he had to we have no argument there. I am off to work at the deli, Daman chew on softer buns you are a bit cranky.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,642
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,642 |
Quote:
Quote:
daman, sometimes i think you're too nice. why you bother to keep responding is beyond me.
i sure wish we could trade him for a ham sandwich.
But could you ever get a ham sandwich that is that cheesy?
Maybe the extra cheese is the conditional part of the trade.
??
"FIALURE IS NOT AN OPTION...!"
-mac
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Bud Shaw on Holmgren
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