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Detroit really isn't looking likely to take an OT. The only people talking about that are the ones trying to stir something up. It is 99.9% certain they will go DT.
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Holmgren also could be very arrogant in the sense that he feels as if he does not NEED Bradford.. and that he could work his magic with either Tebow or McCoy for instance. They both are winners, and they both can run and pass, ala Seneca Wallace.
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Bradford hand size 9 1/2
McCoy hand size 9 3/8
Clausen hand size 9
Not a big difference. The question is do they protect the ball?
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it shouldn't take that much to move up...
The jets hosed us to move up with a few picks and some old Gini guys....
The ONLY way the Browns trade up is if the Rams PASS on Bradford. JMHO.
Really?
U don't think so...that ought to be quote of the year..news flash,the Browns don't have any players to trade yet.. remain competitive ..
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The web (started w/ KFFL and then other sites have ran with it) is crazy right now with rumors that Peter King says the Browns could trade up for Bradford. It took a while but I found the article. Really all it is, is King says it is something he could see. IMO certain websites are drumming something up when there is nothing there. However, there are some Browns tidbits I took from the article and pasted. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/04/11/bryant/index.htmlAll along I've felt Tebow needs to go to a spot where he can have a peaceful redshirt year or two, and assuming Brett Favre plays one or two more years (now we're getting ahead of ourselves), Tebow to the Vikes makes some sense, particularly if Childress feels he's the kind of prospect that two of the quarterback coaches he admires most -- Andy Reid and Mike Holmgren -- think he is. By the way, Tebow was in Cleveland and Washington last week, and he visits Denver this week. I hear the Cleveland coaches were very taken with him, and if he's there when they pick in round two (number 38 overall), or they trade down from number 7 in the first round, well, who knows? Sam Bradford works out for Washington and St. Louis this week. The workouts happen Thursday and Friday. They are formalities. Unless something strange happens, it's hard to envision anything standing in the way of Bradford to the Rams with the top pick on April 22. The only strange thing I see is Cleveland paying a ransom to move up to pick Bradford -- like the seventh and 38th picks this year, and the Browns' first-rounder next year, plus something else. I keep hearing the Rams believe Bradford's significantly better than the other quarterbacks, and if they do, what sense does it make to trade a franchise quarterback so you can be in position to take a quarterback with a couple more holes, and then other top prospects? At the end of the day, you're not going to be sure if you plugged the biggest hole you've got, and if you haven't, and if it's a Brady Quinn situation all over again, then what sense does it make to do the deal? None 3. I think the Browns may do several things at number seven, but the one thing they won't do is take Notre Dame quarterback Jimmy Clausen. They could draft into the strength of that area of the draft and pick a tackle, or they could take Eric Berry, or they could take Joe Haden, or they could trade down to fortify their five-in-the-top-100 slate of picks (overall: 7, 38, 71, 85, 92). They'll do so with a GM, Tom Heckert, who, along with Andy Reid, used to turn draft choices into more quality draft picks as well as any team in the league. I just don't think the Browns see Clausen as a no-doubt franchise guy. 4. I think, for those Browns fans who yearn for a franchise receiver and ask, "Why don't we trade down a bit in the round and get Dez Bryant?'' here's your answer: Eric Mangini's spent a lot of energy trying to get his locker room right, and though Bryant appears to be on the right track and could well be a terrific NFL citizen for the next 10 years, they don't sell insurance for this kind of thing, and the Browns would rather take guys without question marks on their resumes.
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The only strange thing I see is Cleveland paying a ransom to move up to pick Bradford -- like the seventh and 38th picks this year, and the Browns' first-rounder next year, plus something else.
I agree with you that he basically even downplays his own rumor.
But, if we paid this much for Bradford, I will be very disappointed (and upset).
#gmstrong
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If they do decide to "go-for-it" then I say go all out and gamble on Bradford, though I really don't want anything to do with taking an early quarterback-- even though we don't really have a clue as to how this year's QB clique is going to perform. Point being, if they suck, then the new kid needs to get in there (like I said we should have done with Quinn long ago in order to see what you had,...), and if DelHomme and Wallace instead succeed, a later rounder could be "developed as a project." McCoy, Pike, LeFevour, etc.
We NEED the safety,...we don't really know if we need a QB (except maybe for knowing we that don't have a franchise kid--hell, Wallace might go 6-7 years)
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But, if we paid this much for Bradford, I will be very disappointed (and upset).
Agreed.
Who doesn't want a franchise quarterback? It would be great to get one. It makes sense though to use this draft to build up the secondary, receiving core and add some more pieces.
Then next year, depending on where we pick, and who is graded higher, grab our quarterback.
Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, Casey Keenum, Pat Devlin, Jerrod Johnson, and Ryan Mallet should be in next year's class.
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Quote:
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But, if we paid this much for Bradford, I will be very disappointed (and upset).
Agreed.
Who doesn't want a franchise quarterback? It would be great to get one. It makes sense though to use this draft to build up the secondary, receiving core and add some more pieces.
Then next year, depending on where we pick, and who is graded higher, grab our quarterback.
Andrew Luck, Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, Casey Keenum, Pat Devlin, Jerrod Johnson, and Ryan Mallet should be in next year's class.
I fixed it.
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Quote:
Quote:
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But, if we paid this much for Bradford, I will be very disappointed (and upset).
Agreed.
Who doesn't want a franchise quarterback? It would be great to get one. It makes sense though to use this draft to build up the secondary, receiving core and add some more pieces.
Then next year, depending on where we pick, and who is graded higher, grab our quarterback.
Andrew Luck, Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, Casey Keenum, Pat Devlin, Jerrod Johnson, and Ryan Mallet should be in next year's class.
I fixed it.
Wow. Yeah, good call. I forgot he redshirt his freshman year. And with potentially a lockout in 2012 and no draft, good bet he comes out next year.
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3. I think the Browns may do several things at number seven, but the one thing they won't do is take Notre Dame quarterback Jimmy Clausen. They could draft into the strength of that area of the draft and pick a tackle, or they could take Eric Berry, or they could take Joe Haden, or they could trade down to fortify their five-in-the-top-100 slate of picks (overall: 7, 38, 71, 85, 92). They'll do so with a GM, Tom Heckert, who, along with Andy Reid, used to turn draft choices into more quality draft picks as well as any team in the league. I just don't think the Browns see Clausen as a no-doubt franchise guy.
While this may seem like a plausible move, it would be terrible for the Browns. There are too many players involved and the Rams could not assimalate the extra draft choices, even if they wanted. This would be Ricky Williams part 2.
I think Bradford will do well, but not at the price mentioned.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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3. I think the Browns may do several things at number seven, but the one thing they won't do is take Notre Dame quarterback Jimmy Clausen. They could draft into the strength of that area of the draft and pick a tackle, or they could take Eric Berry, or they could take Joe Haden, or they could trade down to fortify their five-in-the-top-100 slate of picks (overall: 7, 38, 71, 85, 92). They'll do so with a GM, Tom Heckert, who, along with Andy Reid, used to turn draft choices into more quality draft picks as well as any team in the league. I just don't think the Browns see Clausen as a no-doubt franchise guy.
While this may seem like a plausible move, it would be terrible for the Browns. There are too many players involved and the Rams could not assimalate the extra draft choices, even if they wanted. This would be Ricky Williams part 2.
I think Bradford will do well, but not at the price mentioned.
I think the question that needs to be asked is "Is Sam Bradford a QB that will change the course of a franchise?" If you are absolutely sure and you do not like who is available next year, then you do it, even if it is a king's ransom.
The problem with that, is next years quarterback class looks deep.
This is really dorky. But I was playing around with the 1998/1999 drafts.
Let's say the N.O. Saints who had the #7 pick would have traded up to #1 and selected Peyton Manning. Let's say they gave up their #1 on 1998, a #1 in 1999 and a 2nd round in 1998.
The Saints at # 7 took the #1 OT in Kyle Turley. Their 2nd round pick they whiffed on, so let's say Samari Rolle who was taken 6 picks later. And their #1 in 1999 was Ricky Williams.
I know they traded up to get Ricky, but here is the question. Knowing what we know now, would you trade the careers of Turley, Rolle and Williams for Manning? Absolutely.
The question is, is Bradford that type of player?
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Rumor has it that rumors are not allowed to be posted on the board 
Last edited by Referee2; 04/13/10 06:00 AM.
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Where did you hear of this rumour? Please give details.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong ----------------- 2023: The year we got a legit D.
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Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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What were all of these rumors and deleted posts?? Inquiring minds like mine want to know!! 
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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My guess would be refering to the ESPN radio rumor involving the Browns thats getting a ton of airplay.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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Quote:
The question is, is Bradford that type of player?
That is the question isn't it. Paying a kings ransom for a 14 year stud QB is probably worth it... Unfortunately you have to make the deal before you know for sure if he's a 14 year stud QB...
yebat' Putin
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Deleted.
Last edited by Thebigbaddawg; 04/13/10 10:21 AM.
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IIRC - My deleted post was saying that moving up would cost a lot. If we knew we were getting the next Peyton Manning then despite the cost it would be a steal. However it would be an awful big gamble on the unknown because no matter what we think of Bradford we don't know how good he will become. Not sure why it got deleted 
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Deepthreat reported it before ESPN. FYI.
 come on, Wes... even you have to think that's funny.
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Quote:
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The question is, is Bradford that type of player?
That is the question isn't it. Paying a kings ransom for a 14 year stud QB is probably worth it... Unfortunately you have to make the deal before you know for sure if he's a 14 year stud QB...
I hope MH is sending out signals to make someone else try to jump...as many holes as this team has,they can't afford to do that.
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I hope MH is sending out signals to make someone else try to jump...as many holes as this team has,they can't afford to do that.
If you dont have a QB it doesnt matter what other holes you have. QB is the biggest hole.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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I hope MH is sending out signals to make someone else try to jump...as many holes as this team has,they can't afford to do that.
If you dont have a QB it doesnt matter what other holes you have. QB is the biggest hole.
Egg-zack-lee. If you think Bradford is a franchise QB, nothing is too high a price to pay.
you had a good run Hank.
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First we aren't debating about a QB sitting there at 7 ,it's giving up all your picks this year to move up,relinquishing any chance of filling other holes for a prospect who may not pan out.
No I'm not ready nor willing to do that.
Then tell me whats surrounding him after he's drafted????
No solid WR to speak of..weak right side of the Oline..suspect RB's..sure go do that and have nothing to compliment him.
Oh and who said the Rams want to trade him?
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/13/10 11:06 AM.
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First we aren't debating about a QB sitting there at 7 ,it's giving up all your picks this year to move up,relinquishing any chance of filling other holes for a prospect who may not pan out.
No I'm not ready nor willing to do that.
Then tell me whats surrounding him after he's drafted????
No solid WR to peak of..weak right side of the Oline..suspect RB's..sure go do that and have nothing to compliment him.
Oh and who said the Rams want to trade him?
No doubt. I think most Browns fans know what happens when you put the cart in front of the horse. I'm not worried though, I believe MH and co. are well aware of this.
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You're not in position to draft a high qb very often. I think when the opportunity presents itself you have to take the chance or else be faced with mediocre results.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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Quote:
First we aren't debating about a QB sitting there at 7 ,it's giving up all your picks this year to move up,relinquishing any chance of filling other holes for a prospect who may not pan out.
No I'm not ready nor willing to do that.
Then tell me whats surrounding him after he's drafted????
No solid WR to peak of..weak right side of the Oline..suspect RB's..sure go do that and have nothing to compliment him.
Oh and who said the Rams want to trade him?
+1
It's easy to say, "if Bradford is the next HOF Super Bowl QB, go get him, no price is too high". NOBODY knows that. More than likely, he's not (odds say that).
While not the same situation, look at the Bears move to get Cutler last year. They gave up Kyle Orton and first-round picks in 2009 (18th overall) and 2010 (11th overall - ouch), along with a third-round pick (84th overall) in 2009 to do it. Orton went on to have a better year statistically and his team had more wins in 09. Was that trade worth all they gave up?
The Bears gave up waaaay too much and Cutler played pretty awful in his first season. And this was for a QB that had already played in the NFL for three seasons (37 starts). You would think the Bears would know exactly what they were trading for....but it didn't work that way. It was his first season with a QB rating below 80 (76.8 to be exact).
Knowing what we know now....would the Bears or you do that trade again? I didn't like it at the time and I like it even less now. And again, we're talking about a guy that had taken a lot of NFL snaps.
Mortgaging the future to get Bradford is completely stupid. And that goes three times over knowing we have a ton of other holes on this team. Let St. Louis take/pay him and let's build a team with all those picks we have.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I was arguing in favor of giving up a ton of picks to move up and take him, just more of less that I think QB is our biggest need and until you have one, you probably aren't going to win many games in the NFL. QB is our biggest hole and we better get someone back there that can play if we have any real hope of winning.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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I more than anyone understand what a QB would do for this team..however moving up to get a guy who may or may be a franchise type is too risky for me.
I said months ago I wasn't sold on any of these QB's this year and I stand by that.
I like Bradford..but I'm not that hyped over him that I'd want to give up our first three picks to get him...
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/13/10 11:13 AM.
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To mortgage the future on a media driven hyped guy like Bradford is definately not worth the risk. I'm so sick of the Browns fielding a team that is outmanned at every position, I want to see a team that can compete week in and week out before we start shooting for the stars.
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QB may be our biggest need and this is a QB-driven league.....however, there's actually a small chance Bradford becomes the next Joe Montana, Peyton Manning, or John Elway. To give up so much for such an unknown is way too risky for a team with as many holes we have. Heck, it's super risky for a team that doesn't have our holes.
Go look back on the success rate for QB's taken at the top of draft. It's actually quite alarming. And then go look at the success rate of QB's drafted middle-to-late 1st and then in the 2nd round. It's just as bad/good. Meaning, you can get a good QB just about anywhere in the top two rounds.
I'd rather put a 2nd round QB behind a strong line, good RB's/WR's, and a solid defense than putting a #1 overall QB behind a O-line that stinks on the right, barely a WR to throw to, and a shaky defense.
We need to maximise the chance of success. Putting all our eggs is one basket is a mistake. Even if we hit with Bradford, which is very unlikely, it will be two drafts from now before we can start putting nice pieces around him.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I need to dig up my findings on the current starting QBs, but the middle rounds were actually the least represented (2-5).
There were a ton of 1st round QBs starting for teams in the NFL last year, a ton of late round and undrafted QBs starting. And only a few of those middle round guys.
The point remains it is a high risk to draft a QB high (especially one with injury concerns who came from a spread offense which is hard to predict the NFL translation and who magically bulked up 30-40lbs from his playing weight).
#gmstrong
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All Pro
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I would be much more likely to believe that we draft two QBs to improve the chances of one panning out.
Clausen or McCoy in the 1st or 2nd, and Pike, Brown, Kafka, etc. with a 3rd or 5th.
Hard for me to believe they are going to shoot the moon for one guy.
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
John Barrymore
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I hope MH is sending out signals to make someone else try to jump...as many holes as this team has,they can't afford to do that.
If you dont have a QB it doesnt matter what other holes you have. QB is the biggest hole.
Egg-zack-lee. If you think Bradford is a franchise QB, nothing is too high a price to pay.
I'm going to reply to what I've read in this thread on page 4. The Question I have is what do the Browns need to win the SuperBowl????
What do the Browns need to win the SuperBowl??
When I think about it long enough, I think (posters) are putting too much value on all of these draft picks the Browns have. It is not like the team just returned 1 or 2 years ago, I mean I know Mangini gutted the roster for the 4th time since 99 last year but maybe a few of the players on the team are better than what you would draft.
Lets look at it this way... They can only keep a 53 man roster on opening day. They have already signed Pashos, Sheldon ? CB, Ghicuac, Fujita lb, and Watson,
Now if you factor in 10 draft picks they have today, and players like Mike Adams (S), Coye Francies (cb) Brandon Mcdonald, or Chansi Stukey, Brian Robiskie, Lawrence Vickers, Chis Jennings, and James Davis.
You have to add to the situation that keeping the draft picks, won't allow you to have a 63 man roster so the thing you have to look at Is
Will the 2nd 3rd other 3rd, or whatever, will the draft picks you pick be better than what you have to enough of an extent , to make it worth losing the players you will have to cut by opening day OR ! ! !
Or will it be better to lose draft picks that may not be good enough to make the roster anyway.
What does it take, for the Browns to win a Superbowl? At this point I'd be happy with the next Tim Couch, I mean they will have 7 rounds of draft picks next year, If I look at this Browns roster from the middle of last season, there was no hope that they were going to be competitive.
Give me someone to believe in!
What does it take for the Browns to win the Superbowl?
1 Can't get SB if you don't berth playoffs.
2 To berth playoffs you need to win your division or get a wild card.
To win the division you need to beleive you can dominate the teams in your division and play better than them agains teams outside of your division.
To get a wildcard you need to beleive you can have a better record than teams like Indianapolis, New England, Tennessee, San Diego, Denver, and the Jets.
The OL, The DL, The Free Safety, The Strong Safety, The Linebacker, The CB, they score touchdowns, but they don't score the majority of touchdowns.
The majority of touchdowns are scored by the Quarterback, The Wide Receivers, and the Runningbacks, ( and a Kick Returner) if you have a 1 and 10 record)
Gvie me someone to beleive in!
Some here would hope for more offensive line help? I think Al Davis gets it more than those, at least he took a chance on Jamarcus Russell.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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the Packers did that to find their backup QB and it worked.
Brohm in the 2nd round busted.
Flynn in the 6th round hit.
Problem for us is we won't likely carry 4 QBs and we traded for Seneca and gave Jake serious $$$, so I doubt we draft 2 QBs.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Keeping in mind that I'm not totally all out in favor of mortgaging the farm to go get Bradford or anybody else... For those who think it's not worth it I have to ask a few questions...
1. We have two options at QB.. one is to spend a bunch and risk a lot to go get a highly touted prospect.. the other option is to keep making smaller investments in the position hoping one of them turns out to be super... what should we do?
2. If we keep filling holes and getting better, isn't only going to keep getting more and more expensive to move up and get the franchise guy if that is the route we go?
3. Everybody keeps talking about the risk.. everybody in every draft has risk.. Manning had risk (both of them).. Rivers had risk, etc.. so when is a QB going to come into the draft without risk?
4. How much better do you think our current talent might be if we had a strong competent QB to lead them?
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 553
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 553 |
Quote:
Problem for us is we won't likely carry 4 QBs and we traded for Seneca and gave Jake serious $$$, so I doubt we draft 2 QBs.
This team has a fair number of bubble guys that may or may not be active from week to week. If they are serious about the QB situation, having one less roster spot somewhere else would be worth it. Another option would be to try to stash the late round guy on the practice squad, although I would like that less.
With all those 3rds and 5ths, IMO it's a better idea to just draft two prospects you like than blow your whole draft on one guy.
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
John Barrymore
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Should it be Bradford/Clausen or
bust for the Browns?
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