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Yeah, I'll probably just break a chip or something.

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I sincerely hope so, but I'm not certain.

I draw the line with Bradford at giving up next year's 1st as well. I fully expect to have a top 10 pick next year, and we could have the option of Jake Locker, Ryan Mallet, Andrew Luck or Christian Ponder. I don't like any of them as well as Bradford, but I would prefer a Locker and Berry over just Bradford.





What happened to this Holmgren's a QB Guru BS???

I gots news for u guys that want a QB after #7...HOLMGREN WON'T TOUCH EM' CAUSE HE AIN'T A COACH ON THIS TEAM...

U got Daboll and Smith bringin' this so called QB along...U got Smith who was a QB for a flippen YEAR...FORTY FIVE YEARS AGO...At some chump college called Bakersfield...And u guys want a 2nd/3rd/5th round QB...Oh I know...Holmgren's a genious...

Oh I forgot...Dango says Mangini's history and Holmgren will take over...GREAT flippen thinking process...


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I literally have no idea what you are talking about. I believe you think I feel differently than I do. I basically want Bradford, or no QB at all.

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I still take Tebow.


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Quote:

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I see us trading with the Rams, sending our 1st, 2nd, 4th and Jackson.




So our 2nd, our 4th, and Jackson in exchange for 1st round positions?

That's not nearly enough, 'Peen.





Also, did Jackson sign his tender? If he hasn't then we cannot trade him. And if he hasn't signed it already then he can't sign it until sometime in June (I think, certainly not for sure).


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Quote:

Quote:

I sincerely hope so, but I'm not certain.

I draw the line with Bradford at giving up next year's 1st as well. I fully expect to have a top 10 pick next year, and we could have the option of Jake Locker, Ryan Mallet, Andrew Luck or Christian Ponder. I don't like any of them as well as Bradford, but I would prefer a Locker and Berry over just Bradford.





What happened to this Holmgren's a QB Guru BS???

I gots news for u guys that want a QB after #7...HOLMGREN WON'T TOUCH EM' CAUSE HE AIN'T A COACH ON THIS TEAM...

U got Daboll and Smith bringin' this so called QB along...U got Smith who was a QB for a flippen YEAR...FORTY FIVE YEARS AGO...At some chump college called Bakersfield...And u guys want a 2nd/3rd/5th round QB...Oh I know...Holmgren's a genious...

Oh I forgot...Dango says Mangini's history and Holmgren will take over...GREAT flippen thinking process...




Uh...okay...

DiD, you are all over the place, man. Settle down. I'm still trying to figure out what your point was in this post. Something about Holmgren being a genius and Dango saying Mangini is gone...

Anyway, there are only 3 QB's I'd touch and we are likely not going to be in the best position to take them: Bradford in the 1st, McCoy in the 2nd and Tebow in the 3rd. All of those would be great spots for their development process.

I do not buy the McCoy is the next Frye thing. McCoy has much more QB ability than Frye did. Much more.


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There are really two things in the Browns favor if we want Bradford.

#1. Bradford will command the last of a huge rookie salary.

#2. Possible new Rams ownership.

This year may not be as expensive as years in the past to move up to #1.

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His argument is that Holmgren won't draft a project QB because the coaching required to develop that QB isn't there.

That makes me confused as to whether or not he was being sarcastic about Django's thinking process..but that doesn't really matter.


Because I know so little about college football and have only watched a few highlight reels.. I feel like I'm a pretty good indicator of hype. My basic opinions on players is pretty much an indicator of being told who is good without viewing any tape.

Lately I've been thinking "oooh McCoy sounds good now for some reason". Which to me means he is being hyped.

Deepthreat not liking him broke the hypnotic spell on me.

A few things worth noting. Haden was hyped. Had a bad combine (or was it a proday?) And the hype said "Its okay, he won't slide!" And then he started to slide.

Personally I don't know enough to know who we should draft.

I would be pretty excited about getting Bradford since most people agree he is the top QB. I'd also be pretty excited about Berry since everyone likes him. Same with Suh and Gerald McCoy (Not 100% if they fit the 3-4)

I would be pretty unhappy with Clausen. Arrogant, overrated, and from Notre Dame? Didn't we just get rid of one of those?

Beyond that ... I really really don't want anything to do with skill players. Even Berry I question. I have a Wide Receiver intolerance after Braylon. A TE intolerance after KW. And a major RB intolerance after Willie Green. Same goes for Tweeners with Wimbley.

In my experience the best draft picks the Browns made in the first round since their reinception have been Joe Thomas, Mack, and Faine. (maybe Brown if he didn't get injured). For this reason I would be really happy picking up a round 1 Guard or Tackle, even rounds 2 -3 would have me pretty excited.

On that note.. I'd also be happy with a D-Lineman . Just avoid the nut cases like Big Money and hope you don't get ACL problems like Brown.

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We'd be better off going defense, or trading down IMO.

We won't get Sam B. and I don't want to gamble on the other QBs at #7. But if Holmgren took Clausen I would get aboard, although I'd prefer a safety or LB in the 1st.
We need help on the back end on D, I expect this to be addressed no later than the 2nd round.


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DnD is a Claussen pimp.



Sort of like the story of the Three Bears.

Papa Bear ( Bradford ) is too high, costs too much

Baby Bear ( McCoy) is too much of a reach/gamble.

But Momma Bear ( Claussen)? Is "just right".



And as for that part of the debate, QB? Nobody else knows Jack and that's all there is to it! Just ask him, he'll tell ya!



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"I would be pretty unhappy with Clausen. Arrogant, overrated, and from Notre Dame? Didn't we just get rid of one of those?"


Yea.. that makes sense. He must be bad since he came from Notre Dame. Just like Quinn uh? Or is it just like Joe Theismann ? Steve Beuerlein ? Or maybe Joe Montana ? .......

Yea.. we better stay away from anymore ND QB's.. Let someone else deal with those duds.


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Gonna be a long 5 days....this week is always a testy time...not long for everybody to get their digs/pimpage in on their boys.

Seems like Clausen is the big lighning rod for us this year, and rightfully so. Regardless of what happens, where he ends up on the Browns' board is going to have a huge impact on how the draft is approached.

If and how QB gets drafted this year is probably the biggest question going in. Who knows? It's entirely possible they end up trading picks to stockpile next year if they like one of those guys.

Gonna be a long 5 days.....


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Quote:

DnD is a Claussen pimp.



Sort of like the story of the Three Bears.

Papa Bear ( Bradford ) is too high, costs too much

Baby Bear ( McCoy) is too much of a reach/gamble.

But Momma Bear ( Claussen)? Is "just right".



And as for that part of the debate, QB? Nobody else knows Jack and that's all there is to it! Just ask him, he'll tell ya!






How bad u want Berry Pit???

Here's a bolt for ya'...

Shanahan takes Clausen...Don't discount that thought...

5 & 6 both need OT's badly...

Berry's gift wrapped for the Browns...


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Notre Dame was just to mention the similarity in their programs and projections.

Please feel free to replace Notre Dame with frat boy.

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Well Well Well...lmao...And this is the most accurate mocker over the past 10 years...

Rick Gosselin...Dallas Morning News

1) Bradford QB
2) McCoy DT
3) Suh DT
4) JIMMY CLAUSEN QB---Here's Your Gift Wrapped Berry
5) Okung OT
6) T. Williams OT
7) ERIC BERRY S
8) Davis at his best...Kyle Wilson CB Boise St. lmao...(Maybe he'd come to 7 for him???...lol...)

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/...ck.33ea398.html


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His last mock is the one that is always so accurate. It has typically come out Sat morning of the draft (note: I will be posting a mock on Sat this year and guarantee it's accuracy through the 1st 3 rounds ). And heard it was as accurate as it is because a lot of teams are willing to give him last minute insider info. just an fyi.


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Quote:

Quote:

I see us trading with the Rams, sending our 1st, 2nd, 4th and Jackson.




So our 2nd, our 4th, and Jackson in exchange for 1st round positions?

That's not nearly enough, 'Peen.







Maybe not...I guess it depends on how the Rams view Jackson.....ok.....add another 3rd.


If you use that stupid draft guide as some basis of reference, our pick at #7 gets us half way to value. That along with a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and Jackson would be enough.

Just checked.....no, it wouldn't...Jackson isn't worth 700 points....low 1st round value....we would have to add a future 2nd rounder to the mix.



Looking at it that way....I say trade down, take Tebow and land another 2nd round pick.

Problem solved.

If it wasn't for seeing Bradford wither to the ground with his second shoulder injury, I'd say trade whatever it takes....kind of reminds me of Frank Ryan getting hurt in the pro-bowl game....or maybe runner-up game....at any rate, he was never the same after that.


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Quote:

Looking at it that way....I say trade down, take Tebow and land another 2nd round pick.




O
M G

U don't quit...

I have 100 on Tebow NOT going in the Top 15 picks...Pretty SAFE...lol...He's a Gator Fan too...SUCKER...lol...


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Quote:

Quote:

Looking at it that way....I say trade down, take Tebow and land another 2nd round pick.




O
M G





U don't quit...

I have 100 on Tebow NOT going in the Top 15 picks...Pretty SAFE...lol...He's a Gator Fan too...SUCKER...lol...




Yep...that was a goofy bet on his part.


But why should I quit when I honestly feel Tebow will be a great NFL QB???


I am not going to tell you that you should like him....I'll just tell you that you don't know QBs.


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Quote:


How bad u want Berry Pit???

Here's a bolt for ya'...

Shanahan takes Clausen...Don't discount that thought...

5 & 6 both need OT's badly...

Berry's gift wrapped for the Browns...




I've seen it almost EXACTLY the way your "draft guru" sees it. I think the Skins could go Claussen or LT. My mock had them taking a LT with three LT's gone in the first six picks actually.

I could see the Skins going Claussen but with the retirement of Chris Samuals and Levi Jones only playing slightly below average at best, I feel the Skins dire need is keeping their newly acquired 33 year old McNabb upright as being priority #1.

How bad do I want Berry? Actually, I don't have a horse in this race. I think landing someone rated as high as Berry at #7 would be a great deal for us. He fills a dire need and is a great value at #7. So I'd be very happy to see him fall to us. And with at least three LT's rated pretty highly in this draft, with or without the Skins drafting Claussen, I think Berry may very well be there at #7 anyway for the very reason I mentioned, the retirement of Chris Samuals. The Seahawks lost Walter Jones as well and their need is great as well.

So looking at the top talent on the board, I'd be thrilled with Berry at #7.

I don't really have a problem with us going in other directions if he's gone or even trading down slightly for someone enammored with Berry and getting Earl Thomas a little later and another high pick.

I'm pretty open actually. Like I said I don't really have a horse in this race.

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Quote:

If it wasn't for seeing Bradford wither to the ground with his second shoulder injury, I'd say trade whatever it takes....kind of reminds me of Frank Ryan getting hurt in the pro-bowl game....or maybe runner-up game....at any rate, he was never the same after that.




This is what we need to remember about his "second" shoulder injury: He came back early and of his own accord. His shoulder still wasn't healed. Stoops isn't known as a guy who puts the players first. He was trying to win a National Championship, so he let Bradford go back in with a still damaged wing. The joint was still weak and damaged, so when he got landed on, it snapped like a weakened twig.

Basically, what I'm getting at is that his shoulder wasn't hurt the second time because he has loose joints which are predisposed to injury. His original separation can happen to anyone. He's no more prone to additional injuries to that shoulder than any other QB on the market.

It's a subtle, but very important difference.

Now how much is Bradford worth? How much should we give up to trade up to get him? That's a highly subjective question with no clear-cut answer. My personal feeling is that I'm not any more worried about his shoulder than I would be about any other QB out there. My concerns revolve around his inexperience and nothing more. I'm perfectly content with his tools and his mind.

Just to finish the thought about what more it'd take to get him, you'd have to throw a high pick from the 2011 draft into the mix as well. Jackson is a good player, but his value has to be tempered because the moment he's traded, he's going to want a rather hefty contract. Money has to play a role in value.


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I am glad you feel that way.


If it's as simple as you say, I agree...a broken leg isn't a indicator you are going to keep breaking your leg.


If the shoulder is sound and we want him, then do it

Me, I am a little wary of spending that much....especially when there are other qbs who give you almost as much, but that's just my opinion.


I guess we will find out Thursday evening.....maybe sooner. There isn't a big advantage for the Rams to hold out until on the clock.


I would be more in favor of shipping next years #1 and keeping our 2nd this year.


I am really hoping we can pick up some players who will have a impact this year....we can do that with the first two picks(except for a qb)


I am not expecting a Super Bowl or anything like that, but I would like to see us in the mix until later in the season and see a few home wins. Last years 0-5 on trips up made for some long return trips.


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It'd be nice, but I *think* we're slated to play the AFC East this year and that division is now loaded with talent. I think looking towards next year would probably save you some heart-ache this year.


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Now how much is Bradford worth? How much should we give up to trade up to get him? That's a highly subjective question with no clear-cut answer.


I don't think it's that vague either,not with a team that has so little talent..want those holes fixed?
Couple that with a uncertain 2011 season and I feel you need to fix the holes first..
Trading away most of your top 50 picks is risky..too risky for me..

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Well man, teams aren't concerned with what may not happen in 2011. They simply cannot adjust their plans for the here-and-now as well as the future on something that is unlikely to happen.

Now, back to the costs to acquire Bradford, there's one component that few people ever talk about, but it's something I've always considered extremely important: Time invested.

People talk the talent of any specific player, they talk the value of the picks spent to acquire the player, and they talk the contract (money) the player has to get. But the TIME invested into any given player is no-less important than any of the other components.

Let's go back to Chuck (it up and pray) Frye. One school of thought (a completely wrong school of thought IMHO) was that it was a worthwhile gamble to take him in round 3. If he doesn't pan out, he won't be considered a bust, and his contract wasn't prohibitive. So no big loss, right?

Wrong.

The most important thing was lost with that line of thinking: We went several seasons without having a legit QB in place, and in this league, the QB is the most important position on the field, and it's getting more important as each season goes by. With Frye, Savage not only spent a 3rd rounder, but also the other pick to move up and acquire him (I believe that's how it played out) then spent MORE draft picks to fix the original problem (or so he thought ) by blowing other picks to get Quinn.

So it's not just about the money, the pick, or the player. It's also about the time invested.

To go after a QB that stands a greater chance of success than others, it becomes more worthwhile to spend greater picks to try and succeed. The key is making sure that the player is worth it.

This is where we have to be glad we have PROVEN guys running the front office.

Holmgren knows QB's. Heckert isn't as known of a quantity, but because of those under his watch succeeding in acquiring Kolb, he probably knows QB's as well. It's more circumstantial than with Holmgren, but he's respected around the league never-the-less. Their expertise gives them an advantage over other guys that think they know QB's. It's ironic that Savage now works for the Eagles, consider he knew JACK-CRAP about QB's. He basically busted on FOUR-STRAIGHT: He loved Russell, he went after Frye, he gave big bucks to Anderson, then blew it with Quinn.

So.........If the guys who know the position feel that the player is a good gamble, spending more picks to acquire him is a good move. With that in mind, while I normally advocate filling holes with all the picks, we're in a division filled with good teams led by good QB's, and without a good QB, we're nothing.

I'm for making the big trade to get Bradford. If we can't get him, I'd rather go your route, Attack, and fill the holes, as I don't think the rest of these cats are good enough gambles to spend the TIME on.

Time invested. It's one of the most under-rated metrics that nobody ever considers.


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I agree with that and have said so all along....you pick a player and you waste multiple seasons trying to prove yourself right.


I am thankful we got rid of Savage or we would have been monkeying around with Quinn another 2-3 years before we finally canned him.

At least we saved a few years by getting rid of him now.


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Well man, teams aren't concerned with what may not happen in 2011.

U may not think so but a lot of them are and I've heard comments of 2011 already..some are looking at whats avalible coming out and how that could impact what they are able/willing to do this year considering some positions are weak in this draft..like QB/WR/RB..I wouldn't say it if I haven't seen it..I can't remember exact quotes but a few teams are concerned.

Now, back to the costs to acquire Bradford, there's one component that few people ever talk about, but it's something I've always considered extremely important: Time invested.


U mean fans and media..teams rarely dispense that info out because it lets the world know how long they'll try to develop a player..but it's usually known once a player is traded and/or another player at same position is brought in.
Or the most obvious..if that positon is ignored in the draft and they say they couldn't get the value for that position..in fact MH has churned out a few statements in that regard..



So.........If the guys who know the position feel that the player is a good gamble, spending more picks to acquire him is a good move. With that in mind, while I normally advocate filling holes with all the picks, we're in a division filled with good teams led by good QB's, and without a good QB, we're nothing.


Those teams in our division also (man to man) field better overall rosters and only the Rats have gone the fill the other holes first route and take developmental QB's..they also have treated the WR position the same way..they won't reach.. they'll go a different direction to beef up another area and wait ..Bengals/Stoolpigeons already had solid supporting casts and had the luxury of getting a solid QB..

I'm for making the big trade to get Bradford. If we can't get him, I'd rather go your route, Attack

I'm just not feeling a tradeup...and usually I don't because I feel it's too risky..if they do( I won't be totally mad) ,they better have some action plans in place to get him a WR /OT and still address the defense..
I realize we don't have a bigtime QB but I'd be less in block mode if Bradford fell to 7 along with Berry etc..


It's ironic that Savage now works for the Eagles, consider he knew JACK-CRAP about QB's. He basically busted on FOUR-STRAIGHT: He loved Russell, he went after Frye, he gave big bucks to Anderson, then blew it with Quinn.


This is no slap to you,but I could care less where he is..he wasn't the draft guru most made him out to be.
He was too willing to pay whatever price to make trades and didn't suck any from anyone else..heck even Super Genuis got some picks last year..he just didn't know how to use them.

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So according to your own logic Toad, the question then becomes do they have Bradford rated high enough to take such a gamble?

IMO, they would have to be "100% SOLD" on Bradford to even entertain such a move.

And the next question would be just how far apart do "they have" Bradford, Claussen and McCoy?

To me you build the foundation for the house to sit on. I don't think we have that foundation yet and don't feel you gamble not building that foundation to simply set a house up with little to no foundation.

To me, we're at least a year or two removed from doing something like that. In order to make such a deal with a team not yet ready for prime time would mean some "lust" for Bradford would have to be in the mix, not simply Bradford as a player IMO


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When I started the Sam Bradford thread I asked, repeatedly, would you be willing to trade up, and how much would you be willing to give up to get him? I think Toad was the only one to respond.

Now, looking at it, if we gave up 1,2, one of our 3rds, and a player (Rogers). I could live with it.

The only way we are getting to the big game is with a franchise QB. Its that simple.

Can you imagine what it would look like to see the Browns with effective QB play? Its been a long time.

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I'm sure he wasn't the only one to respond but why do you think it's that simple??
The Browns would practically have to use their # 2/3/another high one and next years 1 to move up that far..

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I was on ESPN NFL Today podcast today as the Cleveland Browns Superfan and I took Jimmy Clausen as Eric Berry was already taken (#5 KC). Obv I wanted Berry but I am sick of the QB situation in Cleveland and having a duo of Delhomme/Colt McCoy felt too much like Dilfer/Frye. I think Clausen is the pick if Berry is gone.


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It would be between taking him or trading down. Somebody wants him.

I think the Brown's board is something like this:

Bradford
Suh
Berry
Trade Down
Clausen
Spiller
Haden

Just my guess. I like Clausen more than I think the Browns do. Dan Williams and Earl Thomas are probably right there after these guys.


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Clausen...very lukewarm on him..my comments about tradng up are based on the fact there is a ton of talent in this draft..and anyone after it's over sayin it was a weak draft is talking out the side of their neck..

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I tried to trade down once Berry was taken but found no takers. Thought it was too early to take a RT, and a reach to take Dline, my next 2 biggest needs.


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I'm very lukewarm on Clausen as well. IMO, he's BQ 1.5 (an improvement, but not worth the top 10 risk).

Assuming Haden was there, I think he would have been my pick. If Berry is gone, I'd be much more comfortable going with the best CB in the draft. We're still thin there and Brown isn't a long-term answer opposite Wright. Plus CB is one of the tougher positions to fill. I'd be happy with either Berry or Haden at #7.


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Quote:

Just when it looked like the Rams wouldn't talk contract with any of the potential No. 1 overall picks in round one of the 2010 draft, we're picking up mixed signals about whether it's in fact happening.

One source claims that the Rams has been, or will be, negotiating with up to six candidates: quarterback Sam Bradford, tackle Russell Okung, defensive tackles Ndamukong Suh and Gerald McCoy, safety Eric Berry, and quarterback Jimmy Clausen. Another source has said that, as to at least one of those players, there have been no recent talks. Bradford has been making the rounds on radio, claiming that the Rams never have broached the possibility of a pre-draft deal.

The conflicting information creates a sense of enhanced uncertainty as to the Rams' true intentions, which could help the Rams do what many think they'd prefer to do -- trade down.

And while there has been much speculation of a potential Mike Ditka-style deal, we're hearing increased talk that the Rams would be inclined to slide out of the top spot for far less than all of another team's draft. The thinking is that the Rams would like to trade down and draft a player who'd be able to perform right away as a rookie. The thinking on Bradford is that he'll need some time to adjust to the pro game, and that he could end up on the bench for all or most of the 2010 season.

So, in the final year of the free money, it could be that someone finally trades out of the top five for consideration far less than what the badly-outdated (specifically at the top) trade chart would dictate.




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I know it's hard to believe anything we hear this week when it comes to the draft (especially from Florio). But imagine if we got a deal like our 1st rounder and two 3rd rounders for Bradford.

What if the Rams get a contract they like from Suh? Is Bradford ours for the taking? We'd have to trade up to pick #4 at least I would think.

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If we want Bradford, it will take next year's 1st as well. Look at the Giants/Chargers deal of '04. It will be more expensive than that was.

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And while there has been much speculation of a potential Mike Ditka-style deal, we're hearing increased talk that the Rams would be inclined to slide out of the top spot for far less than all of another team's draft.

But according to Ammo since they don't use the value chart , the Rams should just take a single pick or two to move down..the Browns could use their # 7 and a 5th..


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If we really want Bradford we will get him.

The Rams have issues with owner changes. Historically, teams have not wanted to commit big deals before an owner change.

We have an owner who has made it clear that money is not an issue.

Normally, it would take a lot of picks to trade up to #1. I don't see it this year. Especially with the end of huge rookie salaries looming.

I understand the value of moving up to #1 and that it would cost draft picks. But any team who moves up to #1 is doing the Rams a favor.

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I agree that it would take next year's 1st. Just commenting on the article that said they will take less than people think.

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DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Should it be Bradford/Clausen or bust for the Browns?

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