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Yeah, things are more relaxed here. I like the "real" feeling of this place. 
By the way, Tulsa...........You're still on the "back nine?" Jeez....quit hitting balls into the woods and pick-up already. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Yeah, things are more relaxed here. I like the "real" feeling of this place.
By the way, Tulsa...........You're still on the "back nine?" Jeez....quit hitting balls into the woods and pick-up already.
It's that whole "home stretch" thing and not ever wanting to go home! So, I just jump form the 18th green to the 10 tee box again and life is good! 
#GMSTRONG
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Akili Smith got 4 years and 16 starts ... and was jettisoned by the Bengals.
He was a 3rd overall pick.
Cade McNown lasted 2 years, and got 15 starts.
Heath Shuler lasted 4 years and got 13 starts with his original team ... then 9 more elsewhere before his career ended.
Jim Druckenmiller started a whopping 1 game in 2 seasons before he was tossed aside.
Ryan Leaf .. 3 years and 21 starts.
Andre Ware ... 4 years .... 6 starts .... done ...
Todd Marinovich .... 2 years ... 8 starts ..... history .....
All 1st round QBs ..... all tossed without 3 or 4 years of starts .....
And most were drafted much higher in the 1st round then Quinn was .....
And none did anything of consequence with another team.
Sometimes 1st round picks just bust.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I've been looking for a shirt with this on it.
Last edited by Referee7; 03/17/10 09:29 PM.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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I would think Holmgren's success as a coach at GB yielded a lot of the experience necessary for him to interact with "higher" management, ala Wolf, and master the nuances of the NFL GM-Coach relationship. At a mere minimum, with no "GM" SuperBowl wins ? -- these two are probably going to end up being better than anything we've seen in 12 years now,....
I agree..
BC,, I'm sorry if it sounded as if I was picking on you,, at the end of the day,, who knows, your apparent proclamation of pending doom and gloom may come true...
But I also think it's ridiculous to think that simply because others have failed, this regime will also. It also seems to serve no purpose to diminish the accomplishments of those in charge in order to make your gloomy outlook appears accurate..
Ah Daman,my post contained no doom and gloom prophesies,it was just advice to others to not always fsll in love with the new guys in town.
It would appear that advice comes much too late for you.
Doom and gloom,that's very funny.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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j/c...
1) Holmgren said that DA turned the ball over too many times. So why don't you tell us the REAL reason you traded Quinn to.. for a FB/HB at that.
2) How did Quinn ruin his career by holding out? There are so many players that hold out... THat is str8 BS talking about how he fell out of favor of the players.. The players are like a fraternity.. They understand what players go through with front offices, and rookies hold out all the time.
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j/c...
1) Holmgren said that DA turned the ball over too many times. So why don't you tell us the REAL reason you traded Quinn to.. for a FB/HB at that.
proof/link? all he said was DA was first because of the date of the bonus
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2) How did Quinn ruin his career by holding out? There are so many players that hold out... THat is str8 BS talking about how he fell out of favor of the players.. The players are like a fraternity.. They understand what players go through with front offices, and rookies hold out all the time.
not the hold out. players didn't LIKE him.
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For a couple of years some haven't liked reading it when I've said Quinn wasn't the good son that most believed him to be (I don't care how close I am with my friends, I ain't grabbin' any of their sacks before someone takes a picture  ) so I noted the truth of it would come out after he's gone.
This article is the first word suggesting he wasn't liked. Get ready for more........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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i'm with you. i've been saying it for years. people never believed me. i've been dying to hear what really happened in that locker room when he got nailed.
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AHHH Joe I see you are also just as good at Refusing to answer questions, and running and hiding over here as you are over there. 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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When quinn has Denver playoff bound and we are in the AFC north cellar then the King of Queens will be history and we will be rebuilding yet again. 
Until that happens, I would say keep your tinfoil hat on and keep hoping that Holmgren gets it right.
BTW, there is a very small chance your "vision" comes true. Quinn won't even beat out Orton for the starting job. The only thing is, Broncos fans won't be chanting Brady anytime soon, because they know he's a bum.
I would have to agree on Hoping Holmgren gets it right we are all browns fans first, but like I said, the cupboard was bare for Quinn last year and will be full in Denver. i think he not only unseats Orton but does a fine job, but if you think Delhomme and Wallace are anything I am sure you can borrow the Tin Foil hat and it would be a perfect fit. Again I agree it seems to make some fans feel better about a stupid trade to blast the player gone. I've went on the Web and Denver fans are so happy we took their mediocre RB. Orton ended his holdout real fast, I guess he does not share your opinion of Quinn as a bum, and the King of Queens, in Cleveland.
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When quinn has Denver playoff bound and we are in the AFC north cellar then the King of Queens will be history and we will be rebuilding yet again.
Until that happens, I would say keep your tinfoil hat on and keep hoping that Holmgren gets it right.
BTW, there is a very small chance your "vision" comes true. Quinn won't even beat out Orton for the starting job. The only thing is, Broncos fans won't be chanting Brady anytime soon, because they know he's a bum.
I would have to agree on Hoping Holmgren gets it right we are all browns fans first, but like I said, the cupboard was bare for Quinn last year and will be full in Denver. i think he not only unseats Orton but does a fine job, but if you think Delhomme and Wallace are anything I am sure you can borrow the Tin Foil hat and it would be a perfect fit. Again I agree it seems to make some fans feel better about a stupid trade to blast the player gone. I've went on the Web and Denver fans are so happy we took their mediocre RB. Orton ended his holdout real fast, I guess he does not share your opinion of Quinn as a bum, and the King of Queens, in Cleveland.
"I watched film with Daboll and the receivers were getting open an inordinately high number of times but the QB's just weren't connecting." - Bernie Kosar
So, how, prey, is the cupboard bare when you have that direct quote from a guy who knows football staring you in the face?
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Joe, I have to ask you a question.
What do you feel are Quinn's strengths, and how did those strengths demonstrate themselves on the field last year?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Orton ended his holdout real fast, I guess he does not share your opinion of Quinn as a bum, and the King of Queens, in Cleveland.
So, what happens if he doesn't beat out Orton?
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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according to Orton, he may not get the chance to beat him out. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=nf...p&type=lgnsQuote:
Orton told the Post he welcomes Quinn’s presence and has been assured by coach Josh McDaniels that he’s still the starter.
"[Quinn] is a great player and I’ll be happy to work with him," Orton said. "I do have total confidence that I’m the guy there. Just like every year I’m going in to try and earn my starting job. I don’t think I have anything to fret."
#gmstrong
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according to Orton, he may not get the chance to beat him out.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=nf...p&type=lgns
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Orton told the Post he welcomes Quinn’s presence and has been assured by coach Josh McDaniels that he’s still the starter.
"[Quinn] is a great player and I’ll be happy to work with him," Orton said. "I do have total confidence that I’m the guy there. Just like every year I’m going in to try and earn my starting job. I don’t think I have anything to fret."
Butttttt... he's going to lead them to the playoffs! 
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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this is the best we received? 12 starts  the fans/aniticipation are left hanging, to draft a qb, to draft a qb? he had steve smith a general?
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I, for one, am not going to type that mess to do a search
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OK,, I read it,, it's one bloggers opinion..so? Who is Eric Edholm?
Google him if you wanna know... But trust me, it's nobody whose opinions hold any great value..
not to me anyway..... But since it's the written word saying what you believe, I guess it holds some value to you.... Good luck convincing anyone that that makes you right....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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To me keeping a player just "because" isn't enough. From the article: Quote:
12 starts for the team, the Browns had seen enough apparently. And you know what? He might not be very good, a plus-level starter, ever.
Probably not. The odds are not with Quinn in this regard. I can't recall that many 1st round QBs who get dumped by their drafting team who go on to stardom elsewhere. A few perhaps ... but most fade into obscurity rather quickly.
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But could you not have gotten more in return or at least replaced them with better players?
All Delhomme and Wallace have to do is be somewhat less than average and we've upgraded the position greatly. Neither Quinn nor Anderson was anything to brag about last year. Neither guy was productive. Neither guy did much of anything well. It would be really hard to downgrade from 128 yards passing per game and 11 TD passes for the year.
Now, I asked this earlier in the thread, but got no answer, so let me ask you again Joe: What do you feel are Quinn's strengths, and how did those strengths demonstrate themselves on the field last year? What did you see as his weaknesses, and what do you see as evidence that Quinn can improve upon his weaknesses?
Maybe you can do the analysis without TV references also, That might be more effective.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I agree if I am going to post from a respected site like profootball weekly I should be careful who the writer is and you may also agree many written words I do not agree with, yours Damonshot, for instance. In response to another question, I thought Quinn was resourceful using his legs to buy time for guys to get open. I would add he did not produce turnovers and he started to take command of the huddle, where Anderson stayed lost, but most I saw progression in that I saw him getting BETTER. The reverse I saw in Couch and DA, so there wqere never any tears for those two. The thing that rubs me the most is just when we started getting the kid road tested, another coach for a HATED rival scarfs him up for didly poo. I also chuckle at the extrapolation of a run in with fat boy Shawn Smith to how Quinn was disliked by teammates. post some articles, anything. Last the list of failed QBs, stunk out the gate and never showed anything, ever, anywhere. lets see what you got to say next December. We blew it big time. Quinn for a ham sandwich!
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Why was I deleted. No profanity. I am careful not to openly mock anybodys opinions, so what was it?
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my guess is that you linked to a blog...
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Just a guess, but you referred to a blogger that has no cred.. Again, that's just a guess...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quinn for a ham sandwich!
Oh,, so you agree,, quinn isn't worth a Ham Sandwich in trade... OK,, sorry, I misunderstood you.., Please accept my apology....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Ughh are you saying this was not the WORST browns receiving corp all time. I have been a fan since 1964 and i have NEVER seen such a motley cast, add that the browns brown pantyhose unis and I swear they looked like a womens pro team. Aquote out of context by Kosar and we are to assume what percentage of those missed passes were DAs and which were Quinns. Bottom line, add a porous right side of the oline, an inept TE replacing a probowler dumped for peanuts( I mean Viekune, so make that boiled peanuts) and replaced b Royal, a punch drunk RB who kept Harrison on the bench all year, we dump Edwards early in the year and leave the least talented, rawest group of WRS in the entire NFL and Browns history and add an unimaganitive playcalling by another rookie OC and well you see what happens. So we will see who is right. He goes to a coach that tried to trade for him last year and leaves the King of Queens, whom he embarrassed into playing again after a 1-10 start and the hot flames licking his behind...He goes to a top play calling, with top recieving, excellent young RBs, a solid TE and solid oline. We get to see real fast who is correct. The NEXT DAY DEnver dumps Chris Sims and holdout Orton decides quickly he will show at minicamp. Wwe got a ham sandwich and two nags at QB.
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Ughh are you saying this was not the WORST browns receiving corp all time. I have been a fan since 1964 and i have NEVER seen such a motley cast
In the passing game, receivers rely on QB's, not the other way around.
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Aquote out of context by Kosar and we are to assume what percentage of those missed passes were DAs and which were Quinns.
It was in ABSOLUTE context, and attempting to deflect blame from Quinn to Anderson won't fly.
Kosar was talking about Quinn, and he was talking about Anderson. It was clear as day. BOTH couldn't hit open receivers. That means Quinn.
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So we will see who is right.
Unfortunately for those that say what you just said, the vast majority of time the player who was dumped continues his career as a nobody, and the person who made that statement fades into oblivion.
I'm content that we at least got something for Quinn while simultaneously cutting the last ties to a failed regime (Savage) so we can move forward.
Holmgren knows QB's probably better than any single man in the NFL today. He thought Quinn was a bum. That's good enough for me.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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OK,, I read it,, it's one bloggers opinion..so? Who is Eric Edholm?
Google him if you wanna know... But trust me, it's nobody whose opinions hold any great value..
not to me anyway..... But since it's the written word saying what you believe, I guess it holds some value to you.... Good luck convincing anyone that that makes you right....
See I was being nice taking back and, my bad, trusting YOU as if YOUR saying he was just a poster diminished his words. For a second I believed I had mis stated my case and you kicked out the chair only to look up he is senior editor at the most repected sight for pro Football writers, but hey my mistake I thought your opinion had some merit. I take back my take back. all of denver chuckles that the clueless browns shot themselves in the foot.
I may add, nothing to do with the wisdom of Damonshot, that hall of fame Pittsburgh CB, said dumping Quinn made zero sense and openly said did Holmgren even LOOK at films of this guy( Delhomme) the last year and a half? I must admit I enjoy the need of some people to trash a former player or regime to JUSTIFY stupid. The king of Queens will be the next EX browns coach,
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Just a side-note, Joe, but the "King of Queens" stuff is already played-out, and it hasn't been but a couple of weeks. Maybe you can think up a new one.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joe, you are soooo full of it.. man you can make a sane man go nuts.. You twist and turn things and you aren't even close to clear about,,, Example: Quote:
See I was being nice taking back and, my bad, trusting YOU as if YOUR saying he was just a poster diminished his words.
What the heck does that mean.. What are you saying..
If you can't be clear, then don't knock someone for not understanding you...
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I may add, nothing to do with the wisdom of Damonshot, that hall of fame Pittsburgh CB, said dumping Quinn made zero sense and openly said did Holmgren even LOOK at films of this guy( Delhomme) the last year and a half?
Whoa there big fella,, again, you don't make yourself very clear.. but I'll do my best..
Are you speaking of Rod Woodson? Not saying he didn't say anyting about Quinn, but I didn't find it.. Link me to it please..
As for my wisdom,, I think you just tried to insult me, but I'm not sure. Again, writing style leaves much to be desired..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You seem to forget that BE was still on the team when Quinn stunk up the joint the first couple weeks (possibly the worst offensive outputs I've seen a team have for multiple weeks in a row).
So please, quit using that as an excuse for Quinn. Losing BE didn't really hurt as much as losing Winslow did.
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Losing BE actually helped as it eliminated 20 drops a yr.
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I really don't understand. I was happy when we drafted Quinn. And I supported Anderson as well. But I do not buy the argument that 12 starts was not enough time for professional talent evaluators like Mangini and Holmgren to determine whether or not Quinn was a capable starting QB in the NFL.I look at things in the perspective of anyone who as a regular job as I don't think athletes are special nor do I believe they should be held to any different standard either higher or lower. People like to say that Quinn has only twelve starts from which to be judged but what of the other five days that teams pratice every week from July until at least December? Accordingly, Quinn had two full seasons and one partial season to do something that would lead one to think he had what it takes to be the starter in Cleveland. we are talking approximately six day a week for almost seasons. By my calculations, and i did themn real quick sitting at my desk, that would equal about 380 days worth of chances to proove something. I do know about any one else but this is a grown up world and sometimes when you are in the real world you only have one chance, maybe ten minutes to walk and take the bull by the horns and land the job. I've been in that position as I am sure most others have as well. What makes athletes any different.To say that over a year later, if you can demonstrate the basic skills needed to suceed in a job that you have not been given enough time is silly. I know I have never had a job that would allow for that amount of learning curve. The bottom line is Quinn had been prepped for the opportunity most of his life and if after three seasons he did not have what it took in the eyes of the Browns front office then they did the absolute right thing.
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***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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j/c
Anyone who calls Peyton Hillis a "ham sandwich" is either misinformed or not all there.
Either way, Peyton Hillis will be a productive member of the Cleveland Browns for a long time. I can't say the same thing if we kept Brady Quinn.
you had a good run Hank.
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And not just 12 starts, but 3 years of practices and film.
If Holmgren would have seen enough to think Quinn could be the man, then Quinn would still be here.
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VA,, they get the 12 starts thing from Holmgren himself and they take it as gospel.. Not once have I heard guys like Akronjoe for instance say that maybe, just maybe, Holmgren was trying to not bash Quinn in the press..
I'm sure, if you talk to Holmgren behind closed doors and with NO PRESS,, you would hear that he didn't feel that Quinn was the future. Otherwise, with a team friendly salary number and a strong fan following, Holmgren would be nuts to dump Quinn..
I find that pretty simple to accept.. not sure why others don't get it?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I find that pretty simple to accept.. not sure why others don't get it?
denial
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Great post VA. You bring up very valid points and I agree.
We all had faith in the Quinn experiment. It failed. He showed no signs of being a good QB and will be a valuable backup in Denver.
The fact we got anything for him is a blessing. All his presence would have done her is keep the fans clamoring for him to come in and save the day ignoring the fact that he did not have the ability to do so.
Good luck Quinn, but good riddance.
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Brady Quinn traded to Denver Part
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