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I get what you are trying to say, but I disagree with it. We still have 5 of the first 92 picks, and 5 more picks after that. We just added at least one solid starter, and another guy who still has very good 3-4 potential. And for what? Two mid round picks who, odds are, would have given backups. Alex Hall is athletic, but he couldn't even see the field last year with our shady linebacker unit, and isn't a very good passrusher. I don't value midrounders that much. They rarely produce good players, and when you can get the value that we got, I take it.

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j/c

As devoid of talent that we were at DB...this is a good deal even if Brown only plays one year. No fourth or fifth round corner was going to do anything this year to help fill that void.

Brown also gives Wright, McD, and Coye a legitimate PRO to learn from

Gocong is a fit...Hall was not.

The risk is that Brown is done...either now or sooner than "x" time...which might then - and only then - make the deal look like a bad one for us. I think it's a good, low-investment risk.

The best thing about this trade is the flexibility it gives us in the draft. It very well may be the key to movement in the draft that upgrades this team quickly...whether that movement is up or down ...or and maybe down again

Last edited by WSU Willie; 04/03/10 03:57 PM.
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FYI:

It's MIKE Jenkins...Dallas 1st rounder 2 years ago

...and I still haven't heard a good argument for WHY the Eagles would trade a "top 3rd" CB who is not worth 5mil/year (yeah, that's a catch 22....you already lost, lol)...for a 4th and 5th at that....no FO with half a brain would trade THAT for a top3rd CB...even at age 31....

so, I already read the "argument" that the Eagles have an idiot young new GM...nah, that's not a point either...you know why?....IF (see, that's a big IF) Brown was a top 3rd CB...and other teams heard he was available...you can bet your left leg that more teams would have gotten involved and at least some Top75 selection would have been shipped to Philly....it didn't happen....I know why...it's just that some of you just do not want to realize WHY....it was league consensus that Brown is NOT a top 3rd CB in this league anymore... AVG? yes...that's what we paid (and overpaid on his contract)...it was a match for us since we needed an upgrade....but it's just a short term answer, it's not really going to help us when we (hopefully) have a competitive team

Shefter was right the night before the trade...he labeled it a "minor" one (guess he would have said that if he thought a Top CB was going to get traded?)

Enough arguments?


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Please look at a couple of things here.

1. Heckert drafted Gocong in the third. The powers that be in Philly obviously don't feel the same way about Goceng as Heckert does/did.

2. Let's say Gocong ends up being a situational LB'er and ST. Are you saying a fifth round pick is overpaying for that? And what are the odds of a fifth round player making the roster in the NFL?

3. You know as well as I do that players fit and play better in different systems. I asked this of Hew with no response so now I'll ask it of you........Do you know wheather they plan to play Goceng inside or outside? Do you know if Goceng will be more productive in "our D scheme"?

4. You do know that Phil Savage is a player personnel consultant for the Philadelphia Eagles now didn't you? So I take Philly's "assesment" of players with a little more of a grain of salt now.

Now let's address Brown.

1. If Hayden doesn't fall to us at #7, what quality is there in the second or third round at CB? I mean now that the CB position requires far more money ( ie... as far back as the Henry signing with the Boys), once you have a run on CB's who would be left there for us?

2. You do understand that this is an uncapped year. So how does front loading his contract not help us? We both know he'll be replaced over the next two or three years so it leaves us with no dead weight or count against the cap to let him go at that point. You don't think that's smart?

3. And I believe you know that there were NO FA's this year unless they were cut due to the bargaining agreement. As was mentioned, he gets the same money as he did on his old contract, which you claimed he would command a lot more. You were wrong there. Now that you were wrong there, you're back tracking to say even the same money is silly.

4. Can you give me an example of any NFL team getting a starting CB during this years market for less or at a more reasonable cost than we did for Brown?

5. Last year was statisticly one of Browns best years. So why do you continue to question the deal?

As far as the personal stuff? You have pretty much been raising hell over every move, or the vast majority of moves this FO has made. And in most cases, not all, you have went to great lengths to pound it into the ground.

Yet these same guys, both Holmgren and Heckert have pretty good track records at drafting and in Holmgrens case actually building franchises. That's no gauruntee and I understand you may be a little leary, but it's gotten blown out of context IMO

Not trying to be personal here, but from the perspective of reading your posts, it almost appears as an obsession or hatred on your part.

I'm not trying to say that every move they have made is something out of this world, but for a starting CB that we needed so desperately, in the current market we did not overpay. If you believe we did, please show me a better deal somewhere, anywhere during this off-season.

We gave average CB pay to an average to above average starting CB who played one of his best seasons last year. We front loaded it in an uncapped year which is financialy smart looking ahead for the future when the salary cap will be in effect.

Toad hit the nail on the head! Philly is "in the position with their talent" to cut players over 30 and replace them with younger, cheaper players they already have signed and developed. We do NOT have that luxury. We need "players" that can play now.

I'm not dismissing every point you have made. But we do need a core of veterans that "know something of this or a very similar system". If you look at it, since Gini has been here, we have gutted our salary. BE, KW2, Wimbley.

Considering our "need" at the CB position and front loading an "average price" for a starter, I think we addressed that need in a financialy responsible manner.

And I do know you "wanted another CB" besides Brown.

Don't know how much that plays into all of this but I think that may be a part of it.

jmho


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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I just looked at one of your "but mostly younger with more years left" guys that glared out at me....................

Anthony Henry. He will be 33 in november. Younger, more years left?

I'm not going to waste my time disecting it, but once again I feel you are reaching and desperate to make your point.



Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Quote:

FYI:

It's MIKE Jenkins...Dallas 1st rounder 2 years ago




I knew I had that wrong. Mike Jenkins is better than Brown.

Quote:

...and I still haven't heard a good argument for WHY the Eagles would trade a "top 3rd" CB who is not worth 5mil/year (yeah, that's a catch 22....you already lost, lol)...for a 4th and 5th at that....no FO with half a brain would trade THAT for a top3rd CB...even at age 31....




That's the worst argument you can come up with and I bet even you know it. Basing a players talent on what he was traded for is not accurate, unless you think a 4th rounder is better than Randy Moss.

If Brown is not in the top 3rd, he's on top of the 2nd 3rd, which makes him a very good #2 CB. He's hardly "average." Brandon McDonald is an average CB, Brown is a good CB.

Quote:

so, I already read the "argument" that the Eagles have an idiot young new GM...nah, that's not a point either...you know why?....IF (see, that's a big IF) Brown was a top 3rd CB...and other teams heard he was available...you can bet your left leg that more teams would have gotten involved and at least some Top75 selection would have been shipped to Philly....it didn't happen....I know why...it's just that some of you just do not want to realize WHY....it was league consensus that Brown is NOT a top 3rd CB in this league anymore... AVG? yes...that's what we paid (and overpaid on his contract)...it was a match for us since we needed an upgrade....but it's just a short term answer, it's not really going to help us when we (hopefully) have a competitive team




Honest question here: If Gocong is worth nothing, in your opinion, then what is that 4th and 5th pick worth? You've already said this is a great draft, so that automatically makes the 4th and a 5th a 3rd and a 4th. So, does that mean that Brown is really worth a 3rd and a 4th rounder? Doesn't that make him better than what you are trying to make him to be?

Quote:

Shefter was right the night before the trade...he labeled it a "minor" one (guess he would have said that if he thought a Top CB was going to get traded?)

Enough arguments?




Schefter has little value other than what he reports. It's not a block buster, but it's also not a Brady Quinn for Peyton Hills deal either.


you had a good run Hank.
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Quote:

...and I still haven't heard a good argument for WHY the Eagles would trade a "top 3rd" CB who is not worth 5mil/year (yeah, that's a catch 22....you already lost, lol)...for a 4th and 5th at that....no FO with half a brain would trade THAT for a top3rd CB...even at age 31....





Toad posted it. This isn't a quote, but basicly the same.

Philly has a tendency to do this. They get rid of older, higher paid players because they have the luxury of drafting and developing guys to replace higher paid players at 30 and over.

They already have a CB in the wings at a much cheaper price to replace Brown. Just for fun I'll let you look that one up.

Look at McNabb. They have Kolb waiting in the wings.

We are not in the position to do this. We have needs without players to fill the position, much less quality players waiting in the wings.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Quote:

They foolishly opened up a need at CB with nobody waiting to take over because they were not willing to dish out the $$ to Brown despite being a PO-contender...for only 2 mid rounders




The Eagles tendered Hobbs at a first-round level and Gocong at his original third-round draft level earlier this month. Neither free agent, however, was expected to draw much interest, especially since other teams would have had to part with high draft picks if the Eagles weren't going to match an offer.

Hobbs will make $2.621 million in base salary, and Gocong will make $1.176 million.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20100331_Eagles_re-sign_Hobbs__Gocong.html

Hobbs was their third CB last year until a neck injury. He will be a younger, cheaper answer for them. There's no hole there.

Will you please stop making these baseless comments to bolster your arguement?


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
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