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Unless Kolb turns to out to be as good as they think he is.
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They were awful until the had McNabb. They're good years coincide with him. They're going to miss him more than they think.
Their good years also coincided with Andy Reid. And he is the one who helped pick out McNabb. He happens to think Kolb is the way to go now.
I think they end up like GB did with Rodgers. Kolb will put up good stats this year, but the Eagles record will suffer some while he learns what he needs to do to win. Then, 2011 will be a year where you have to look out for the Eagles.
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Quote:
Quote:
They were awful until the had McNabb. They're good years coincide with him. They're going to miss him more than they think.
Their good years also coincided with Andy Reid. And he is the one who helped pick out McNabb. He happens to think Kolb is the way to go now.
Nope. Reid actually wanted to keep McNabb and has said so several times. The feeling in Philly was they would have to get rid of Reid to get rid of McNabb. Obviously not, but Reid was definitely in McNabb's corner.
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Not saying it's so, but what Reid says in public verses what he says behind closed doors may be two different things.  _____________________________________________ To be fair, we should look at Roseman’s qualifications. As a graduate of Fordham Law School, Howie Roseman has the slimy ability to lie to people’s faces and make it look sincere. That’s the number one priority for anyone working in Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie’s front office under team President Joe Banner. The other thing you have to be is supremely arrogant even though you have never won a damn thing. Since Roseman has been with the Eagles for the last eleven years, working directly for Banner, I’ll assume he is sufficiently arrogant. Roseman, 34, doesn’t have a traditional background for an NFL GM. Instead of having an NFL pedigree from either coaching, playing or scouting, Roseman spent most of his time over the last eleven years helping Banner with the salary cap. Only in the last year has he moved over into helping former GM, Tom Heckert, on the player evaluation side. That’s right, one whole year of player personnel experience. Yeah, he sounds qualified to me. http://www.thisweekinphilly.com/philadelphia-eagles-losers/_________________________________________________ Not saying it's so, but looking into Rosemans background, how did he land this job? Philly has dumped a LOT of talent this year. Do you think this rookie GM is calling all the shots in that? I don't. I think he's being set up as the fall guy for all of this and won't be the GM in Philly for long! All the while, Reid gets to sit back and say, "I didn't do it!" 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Nope. Reid actually wanted to keep McNabb and has said so several times. The feeling in Philly was they would have to get rid of Reid to get rid of McNabb. Obviously not, but Reid was definitely in McNabb's corner.
Andy Reid is all coachspeak as he has to be. Not sure which is true, but he sounds like he takes responsiblity for the decision here:
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-eagles/Reid_on_McNabb_trade.html
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Yes Reid has sort of been put into a corner here and took responsability for the McNabb trade. But there's a bigger picture here. They have actually purged 14 veterans from their roster. In all likelihood, you won't see the Eagles looking at a playoff birth this year. Eagles fans are a fickled bunch and they'll be raising 18 kinds of hell. In comes Roseman. He's a first year GM with only one year of player personnel experience under his belt. Looking around the NFL, he has one of the worst resume's as a GM. Point being, if the Eagles fall on their face, who gets the blame? I could see Roseman being used as the scapegoat and being a "one year and out" GM for the Eagles. Reality dictates, as much as I hate it, that the NFL is a business first. In order to generate revenue, you must appease the fans to some degree. With no real pedigree to be a GM in Philly other than being in the organization, I could easily see Roseman being set up to take the fall if things go badly in Philly this year. jmho
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Andy Reid has to be very careful.. I'm sure he likes McNabb and wants to show him the respect he deserves, by the same token, Reid can't go on too big of a McNabb lovefest because he still has to show the confidence in Kolb that he can lead the team going forward... talk about demoralizing a lockerroom.. if the players sensed that the coach felt you had just traded away your best QB.. that could create a really BAD situation.
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I like paraphrasing Branch Rickey in situations such as this; "it's better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late."
Trading McNabb now prolly gives them the best bang for their buck in regard to risk/reward than at any other time. Trade him sooner and you can't enjoy the friuts of his ability. Trade him later and you may only get a mid- rounder or maybe even nothing if he hits the open market.
Not any easy call ,but in the end it just might be the right call.
Beside,when if ever ,will Kolb be more ready both physically and mentally?
They have Vick for an insurance policy,but if I were the Iggles I may put feelers out to trade Vick and look for a vet back-up and take a flyer on a draftee in a mid-round.
The Iggles may be in less of a rebuilding mode than most believe. They have 11 picks now and could use them for trades or for moving up slots during the draft. Anyone counting them out for the 2010 season could be in for a rude awakening.
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Does anyone really think the Eagles are in rebuilding mode?
Kolb is hardly a rookie (2010 will be his 4th year in the league).
They will have talented players at every offensive skill position (Jackson, Maclin, McCoy, Avant) they have the same O-Line as last year and the same defense.
And they have 11 draft picks. Imagine if they pick up a guy like Jahvid Best or Toby Gerhart. Or trade up and get Rolando McClain.
But the most important thing is they have a system. Andy Reid has been there since 1999. The only thing that is different is that they don't have McNabb, and everyone seems to think Kolb can replace him.
The Eagles will be good.
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Offensively, I think you're right. If the Eagles are "weak" anywhere, it is on defense. They aren't awful, but they aren't the unit they used to be either (19th in points/game last year).
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Does anyone really think the Eagles are in rebuilding mode?
Every Eagles fan I know thinks so. Of course, when you're a fan of the Browns, you look at the Eagles roster and it looks like an All-Pro lineup!  The basic critique is they hate their defense.
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the basic problem is that they have to compare themselves to the Giants and Cowboys in their own division if they want to get to the playoffs. they have an awful lot of question marks to get past in order to think they can compete.
Offense:
1. Can Kolb continue to show the promise that he has demonstrated in the limited action he saw last year? And, can he take the next step towards winning games in the clutch?
2. Can McCoy be the feature back? He also showed promise last year, but was not an in-his-prime Westbrook either. Who backs up McCoy? Can they afford to spend a higher pick on RB when they have such needs on defense?
3. Can they be efficient in the red zone with such short WRs? Maclin and DeSean are great in the open field, but can limit the tight red zone options. (Celek may very well be the answer to this one)
4. Can their underachieving OL perform better? They really need some depth in the interior, but really they need guys to perform to their ability. I expect a couple mid-round picks to address their OL.
Defense
1. What will they do about their DL? They need a starting LE, DT and depth.
2. How many LBs will they draft? They need some youth and talent infusion, particularly at MLB.
3. Can their young CBs continue to develop on the promise they have shown so far in their opportunities?
4. Mikell and Demps are decent starters, but Demps could definitely be upgraded and where is their depth?
Yes, they don't have nearly as big of questions as our Browns do, but they have just as many.
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i'm just glad that Kosar never played for a division rival. because, let's face it, that's what McNabb should be to Philly fans (some I know believe that, some don't).
he helped keep them competitive over a long stretch and got them so tantalizingly close to a championship a few times, but couldn't finish it off. just like our Kosar led Browns.
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Ya, looks weird but let's face it.....some of the greatest ever changed teams. Gretzky, MJ, Montana, and Ruth all finished their careers with a different team than how we remember them. If those four can change.....anyone can change.
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i've heard that a lot of philly fans and media want andy reid out of there, which i don't understand
but if he does get the can, and mangini has another bad year, do you guys think holmgren pulls the trigger?
i like andy reid, i really like what he has built and i don't understand why eagles fans would not want that. they compete every year. they draft well, and i think the players respect reid.
i'm also not trying to push mangini out because i like the guy and i think he has a chance to be our coach for many years, if he can continue with what they did in the second half. but it was kinda something that raised an eyebrow.
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I have this (gut) feeling that Holmgren would pull the trigger on any coach he's high on, regardless of how Mangini does this year.
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w/out McNabb... Reid won't be there too much longer.. the QB makes and breaks head coaches... Reid just gave up a hell of a QB... the downfall of the Eagles begins now.
McNabb had the ability to hold the Eagles offense together.. not sure if Kolb can do that.
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w/out McNabb... Reid won't be there too much longer.. the QB makes and breaks head coaches... Reid just gave up a hell of a QB... the downfall of the Eagles begins now.
Agree. Coaches are made by their QB's. Very rarely can these "genius" coaches continue their success after losing the franchise QB they rode in on. Maybe Reid is that good...maye he's not. We'll see.
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Agree. Coaches are made by their QB's. Very rarely can these "genius" coaches continue their success after losing the franchise QB they rode in on. Maybe Reid is that good...maye he's not. We'll see.
you could just as easily say that these franchise QBs made by their coaches and their systems.
shanahan has had good success (while not a superbowl title) without Elway.
holmgren has had great success (including superbowls) without Montana and Steve Young and continued to have success without Favre
gruden had success in TB without Gannon
dungy had success in TB before Peyton
parcells has had success most everywhere he has ever been with Simms, Hostetler, Bledsoe, Vinny, Romo, et cetera
I personally think that a good coach is a good coach and that a good QB is a good QB. To suggest one is made by the other and they will fall apart without them is just not based on history (the other side of the coin being the success Montana had in KC, Marino had with multiple coaches, Aikman had with multiple coaches, et cetera)
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w/out McNabb... Reid won't be there too much longer.. the QB makes and breaks head coaches....
How did that apply to the Tim Couch, Butch Davis era? ... or Chris Palmer?
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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our Cleveland Browns have been struggling since 1999... do i really need to answer that question?
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I agree that if Reid somehow became available he would become our head coach...if Mangini was unsuccessful. This season if Mangini wins 7 games I would say he was successful.
Also, I think Philadelphia will give the Kolb/Reid combo at least one season of leeway.
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I agree that if Reid somehow became available he would become our head coach...if Mangini was unsuccessful. This season if Mangini wins 7 games I would say he was successful.
Also, I think Philadelphia will give the Kolb/Reid combo at least one season of leeway.
that's kinda where i was going with it.
i honestly think holmgren would go after it if it appears mangini did not turn the success of the last quarter of the season into success in the new season.
i'm really pulling for mangini, i like the guy, i like his attitude. i think he's exactly what this team needed, and if you get the right guys for him and somehow fix the qb situation, he can be your guy for years.
but if it doesn't work out that way, and andy reid gets shown the door, i just can't see how we don't pull that kind of coach in. love what he built there. strong on both sides of the ball, always in the playoffs, even when mcnabb would go down, they'd still put up a great fight.
i honestly think eagles fan and media alike are gonna be really sad in 2 years when they have dumped their franchise qb and their very good coach.
sure, mcnabb lost a bunch of conference championship, lost a super bowl, but it's almost like they completely ignore that a good portion of the league has a gigantic quarterback problem, especially the team they just traded with.
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w/out McNabb... Reid won't be there too much longer.. the QB makes and breaks head coaches... Reid just gave up a hell of a QB... the downfall of the Eagles begins now.
McNabb had the ability to hold the Eagles offense together.. not sure if Kolb can do that.
To a great extent you're right, but there's a bigger picture here.
McNabb wasn't the only one shipped out of town. They unloaded a lot of veterans and left some holes needed to be filled, counting on many players to step up at several positions. Sheldon Brown at CB being one of them.
I know the media focuses on McNabb, but there's far more to the story in Philly than just McNabb. A lot of vets have been sent packing without all of the talent in place to fill some of those holes.
jmho
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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That's exactly right, and because of their standard operating procedure, which is to jettison aging players and plug in younger players, Reid is as safe now as he was several years ago.
Losing McNabb isn't going to affect Reid, as Banner and the rest were all on-board with the move. Reid has proven himself to be an excellent football guy, and even if they are a little down for a year or two with Kolb, he'll still be there.
Remember, Reid just signed a 3-year contract extension. They aren't going to fire him next year no matter what happens.
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Remember, Reid just signed a 3-year contract extension. They aren't going to fire him next year no matter what happens.
While I happen to agree that they're not gonna fire Reid, you should never say never.
After all, Carolina dumped Jake while owing him a guaranteed $12 million. If you want a guy gone bad enough no amount of money is gonna stop some of these guys.
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Hmmm.............Then I'll go with:
The premise that moving McNabb will soon mean the end of Reid is highly suspect............
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Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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And as I've said Toad, They hired Roseman who has one whole year of personnel evaluation as thir GM.  I'd say if their ends up being a sacrificial lamb in all this, Roseman will be "da man"!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Unless Kolb turns to out to be as good as they think he is.
I think this move has less to do with how good they think Kolb is and more to do with McNabb himself. No one in their right mind can honestly say Kolb will be anywhere near the QB McNabb has been. No 5 is easily the greatest QB in Eagles history.
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He gets a little sporadic from time to time, isn't the most accurate, is injury prone, and has trouble getting over the hump (see Super Bowl vs. Pats that TO called him out on). I really think he is overrated. He's good, don't get me wrong but he's not an Elite QB anymore.
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ya, he hasn't been in the top 10 in QB rating the last couple years. and that's probably a bit unfair since QB play is at an all-time high right now, but he's also playing on a pretty stacked offense and in a quarterback friendly system.
he's been a very good player during his career no doubt, but he's also going to turn 34 during the season and to get an early 2nd round pick in a deep draft and a mid-round pick next year is a good trade for the Eagles, IMO.
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Pretty good article on why we didn't trade for McNabb: Quote:
The Browns did not seriously consider trading for former Philadelphia quarterback Donovan McNabb because they did not want to give up a draft pick in the first three rounds, President Mike Holmgren said Thursday.
Instead, the Browns signed Jake Delhomme on March 15 after the Carolina Panthers released him.
The Eagles traded McNabb to division-rival Washington on Sunday for a second-round draft pick (37th overall) and a conditional fourth-round pick in 2011 that can become a third-round pick.
Holmgren said the Browns never made a formal offer for McNabb prior to signing Delhomme. But at the time of their discussions, the Eagles' price tag was "absolutely higher" than what they eventually received from the Redskins.
"But it always is [in the early stages], and you're not sure it's going to change," Holmgren said. "But it was pretty high."
The Browns own five of the top 92 picks in the April 22-24 draft. Holmgren said he values that stockpile to fill other team needs.
"The only way I was going to take all those early draft picks in rounds 1, 2 and 3 and use them would be for a young draft choice that I thought could be the quarterback for the next 15 years," he said. "Otherwise, we have too many needs that those picks are going to help us with."
Holmgren said that when he initiated plans to rebuild the Browns' quarterback position, he had a list of 10 to 12 quarterbacks that might be available, including in the draft. Before releasing Derek Anderson, Holmgren traded a seventh-round draft pick in 2011 for Seattle backup quarterback Seneca Wallace.
"To take some of the pressure off immediately," Holmgren said of that deal. During that period, Holmgren and General Manager Tom Heckert, formerly of Philadelphia, had discussions with the Eagles, who made it known that any of their three quarterbacks were available. Holmgren said it never got serious because of the Eagles' high asking price. He would not identify what they wanted, but reports at the time said the price was a first-round draft pick.
After Carolina released Delhomme, the Browns signed him to a two-year deal and traded Brady Quinn to Denver for fullback Peyton Hillis, a sixth-round pick in 2011 and a conditional pick in 2012.
Delhomme reportedly will receive $7 million in 2010 -- most of which comes in a signing bonus. Delhomme, 35, has a $5.4 million base salary for 2011.
McNabb, 33, is scheduled to make $11.5 million in salary and bonuses in 2010. He is unsigned after 2010.
Holmgren said he was not disappointed that Philadelphia's price tag for McNabb dropped so dramatically after the Browns had committed to Delhomme.
"I'm not a big one at looking back," he said. "We did the [deal with Delhomme]. I'm pumped up. I really think this guy is going to bring something for a couple years and hopefully during that process we can find the next guy."
The Eagles have received some criticism for trading McNabb to a division rival. Holmgren said he hasn't spoken to Eagles coach Andy Reid, a friend and former protege, since the trade.
"Just as a general rule, I don't think it's ever a good deal to trade [with a division rival]," he said. "Clearly, Andy has such a great relationship with Donovan that it seemed to me that he did that because he cares for the kid and he wanted to do something for him. Now, Andy's nicer than I am."
Although Holmgren treasures owning five picks among the top 92, he said he is not averse to using them to move up in rounds 1 or 2. The Browns' top picks are at Nos. 7 and 38. They have three in the third round.
"We're going talk about it. That's a possibility," he said. "But it has to be something pretty slam-dunk. Otherwise, I think we can come out of, with those five picks, if we do it right, we should be able to get some real help, real depth, and build a young core."
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5 picks in the first 92, i really like the sound of that
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"Clearly, Andy has such a great relationship with Donovan that it seemed to me that he did that because he cares for the kid and he wanted to do something for him.
How is trading McNabb to Washington doing him a favor? He's gonna get killed there.
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Likely that was a place McNabb was willing to go ... as opposed to maybe Oakland? Just specualting.
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How is trading McNabb to Washington doing him a favor? He's gonna get killed there.
Just a guess on my part, but with Shanahan there, it's a safe bet that he'll turn that situation around pretty nicely.. For McNabb to be there and be Washingtons "elway" under Shanahan, might just be appealing....
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Likely that was a place McNabb was willing to go ... as opposed to maybe Oakland? Just specualting.
What I heard was he didn't want to go to Oakland or Buffalo.
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The Eagles almost certainly must have figured that McNabb was washed up or something ..... because a QB is a huge piece in turning a team around ..... and to trade that big of a piece to a division rival is a scary proposition at best.
If the Red skins pick up a couple of OL, suddenly they could dramaticallt improve their protection. Also, McNabb understands protections and can probably save a number of sacks on his own by quicker plays, sliding protections, and moving in the pocket.
I just see this as a move fraught with peril from an Eagle standpoint.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
The Eagles almost certainly must have figured that McNabb was washed up or something ..... because a QB is a huge piece in turning a team around ..... and to trade that big of a piece to a division rival is a scary proposition at best.
If the Red skins pick up a couple of OL, suddenly they could dramaticallt improve their protection. Also, McNabb understands protections and can probably save a number of sacks on his own by quicker plays, sliding protections, and moving in the pocket.
I just see this as a move fraught with peril from an Eagle standpoint.
I agree that it's a gamble, but if McNabb's only got two years left and the Eagles think the 'Skins are at least 2 years from a good team, then this move can set the Skins back as they're not developing a QB in gameday situations. So yeah, it's a gamble. I agree.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Donovan McNabb traded to Redskins
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