DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Byron Leftwich traded to the Steelers...

j/c

i'm amazed by some of the posts on this thread so far.

i would trade the #7 pick for big ben. why? there is likely no one at #7 that is worthwhile and this solves the revolving qb issues. even with a #7, he would come cheaper than what the bears paid for cutler. do i think we will do it? of course not. does ben's past issues bother me? yes, but if we decide he's not stupid enough to do any of this again, why wouldn't we?

all this high and mighty "i woudln't do it for the last pick of the draft and if they gave us all their picks" is just bologna.

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all this high and mighty "i woudln't do it for the last pick of the draft and if they gave us all their picks" is just bologna.

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No, it isn't. It's called having principles and living by them.

At least as of right now, I wouldn't sign him as an UFA.

they're exaggerations that are unfounded and untrue. fact is, if if the scenario i quoted happened, there would be plenty of teams up for it. having principles and living by them is one thing, pretending like principles get in the way of business is another.

like i said, it's high and mighty talk by people who feel strongly that this scenario isn't close to happening. if it could, we would be singing a different toon. football is football. i don't care what they do on their time as long as they don't compromise their ability to entertain me in their profession. us asking overgrown babies to be more than a law abiding sports player and start being "role models" is dumb. like i said, if our FO decided he wasn't going to have these issues again, i'd do it.

the point that you seem to be missing is it's context. considering i see firsthand the unethical behavior of medical companies, it's different to say "gee, that dong, he's so unethical because he doesn't care about what a professional athelete does with his free time as long as he doesn't negatively impact his ability to play his sport." it's a load of crap. look, i wanted to condemn ben as much as anyone and as quickly but the fact is, he was never convicted and he's a professional athlete.

here in socal, you think people give anything about kobe's off court transgressions? no. he's winning them games. you can say what you want about morals and ethics but you're taking the position that you'd rather have a losing team of choir boys than one or two bad apples, even one who by all accounts is fine in the locker room, just makes stupid decisions with the other head. sorry, ultimately a football team is not my moral compass. you can excuse my indifference to their actions, when it doesn't affect their eligibility to play. the browns do not represent me. i represent me. i could care less what joe thomas does as long as he's able to play for my team. the browns aren't in the league to win the "ms congeniality" of the nfl. like i said, if the management felt he wasn't going to do it again and knew he would improve the team while trading out of a high draft spot that had no one we really watned, there would be no reason not to do it.

and if you want to get personal, you'd laugh at how wrong you were if you knew what i did. you don't know me. i happen to be secure enough with my morals to say sports teams don't represent me and my decisions and i certainly don't need your approval.

That makes sense and all, but his off-field actions ARE affecting his on-field performance (he's not playing a bunch of games this season). Plus he'll have to shake the rust off real quick once he's back. He's the starting quarterback, so his off-field actions will result in a HUGE blow to the Steelers' season. How the rest of the team picks up the slack is irrelevant, by the way.

As an aside, I find the "we don't want a team of choirboys" argument really irritating. There are laws, so you follow them. If New York state says you can't carry around a concealed handgun, you don't do it. If the federal government says you can't carry a semi-automatic hand-cannon into an airport, you don't do it. If the law says you can't sexually assault a coed, you don't do it.

Now, if you say somebody that follows laws and team rules == choirboy.... well then I don't really know how to reply to that.

Edit: My point is, the bar is set way too low for an argument like that.

1) i said if management took the risk, thinking that he wouldn't break that law again, then no, he wouldn't be affecting his ability to play. it's already established that he's not playing the first however many games. that's a given, not an argument for future potential issues.

2) there are laws but you miss the context. we are football fans, not the police. they need to follow the law, in context for us, so they can play football. that's it. the focus here is all about whether cleveland fans can take another stab at pittsburgh fans. hell, take a look at the smack shack. this is just another instance where the perpetual loser can climb on top of the soap box and try to proclaim why he's beter. "my team may suck but at least my players doesn't do ____"

3) attacking diction is meaningless. you got the message, focusing on "choir boys" thinking i should've said "law-abiding citizens" is a waste of time.

I think you're missing my point and jumping down my throat because everyone else is calling you out for one reason or another.

1) If management weighed the risk, and decided to trade for him... fine, whatever. Arguing that situation IS pointless. I think that's a huge if and would disagree on the trade on that basis, but that's just my own opinion.

2) The focus is NOT whether fans can have their soapboxes. The focus is that Big Ben can't play football for 4-6 games due to off-field conduct, which affects the on-field Steelers in a big way. Hard to cheer for a player when they won't be on the field.

3) Dong, you totally missed my point, so go ahead and swap "choir boys" and "law-abiding citizens" and plug that back into the argument. You don't want a team of law-abiding citizens?
It's not a matter of want... you NEED a team of law-abiding citizens.

I'm not talking about squeaky-clean players. I'm talking about players that are clean enough to be able to show up on the field. HUGE difference

noob, re-read my posts. the ONLY situation i described was one where the management decided he wasn't a risk in the future. in that one, i'm fine with trading for him. you already conceded that and have no other point.

and no, i didn't "jump down your throat" because "everybody is calling me out" when there was only one guy, purp, who i've interacted with plenty. you interjected yourself into a philosophical issue where purp and i disagree on a point that goes beyond ben's current situation. i don't need football players to be an extension of me and my values. i need them to be able to play on the field; what they do off the field is irrelevant to me so long as they're eligible to play. another point that i made in my earlier posts.

i reacted to you because you clearly didn't read everything or just plain didn't get what i was saying. it's obvious one or both of those situations apply, judging by your current post.

The NBA has had incidents ... but they pale beside the NFL.

The Roethlisberger case (s)

Eric Foster (Colts, accused of sexual assault)

The NFL has had a guy kill his pregnant girlfriend. (Rae Carruth)

Run over an officer trying to write a traffic ticket. (Randy Moss)

Plexico Burress with the idiot move of the decade ... going to prison for shooting .... himself ....

Obviously, the Dante Stallworth case.

Jermains Phillips (Bucs/ assaul, choking his wife)

Marshaw Lynch (theft)

The Ray Lewis case

Leroy Hill (Seattle, assaulted his girlfriend)

Lance Louis (Bears/assault)

Ronnie Brown

Byron Westbrook

Tony McDaniel

Deon Anderson (Cowboys FB who pulled a gun in a restaurant)

Chad Reinhart (Redskins drunk and disorderly)

Will Allen (DUI)

Ray Mauluaga (DUI)

Dusty Dvorack (Bears DT/ bar fight)

Spencer Havner (Packers TE/ DUI)

Joey Porter

Shaun Rogers

Michael Vick

Ricky Williams

William Green

Cedrick Benson

Michael Irvin

Our own Chris Jennings

Matt Jones

Tajiddin Smith (Colts/DUI)

Darrell Reid (Colts/ Disorderly conduct outside bar)

Vincent Burns (Same as above)

Kenton Keith (Colts again ... same as above .. again)




And this is the result of a simple 1 minute internet search. There are pages after pages of players being arrested for everything from drunk and disorderly ... to DUI ..... to assault ..... to theft ...... to murder.

In the NBA? Delonte West with a gun ... and the other 2 idiots trying shootout at the OK corral in the locker room. They have also had a handful of DUIs. That's wbout it.

MLB? Some former players, and a coupe of minor leaguers show up in the arerst files ....

The NHL has had some idiots ..... but again, the numbers pale by comparison. The biggest idiot has to be Patrick Kaine ... who was arrested for attacking a cab driver ... reportedly over 20 cents.

Yeah ... but if he hadn't shot himself, he wouldn''t have been caught .....

So, in essense, he went to prison for shooting himself.

ugh...

I'm a little confused why you're throwing so much fire over such a small conversation.

"you already conceded that and have no other point."

Really? I say we agree on that, but whatever. You're right and I'm wrong. Congrats (insert gold star smilie here). AND I have no other point. Great argument...

"you interjected yourself into a philosophical issue"

It's a message board.

"i need them to be able to play on the field; what they do off the field is irrelevant to me so long as they're eligible to play."

Not sure if I was unclear, but that was exactly what I was getting at. I cheer for football players playing football. Can't cheer for them if they're not on the field. Non-law-abiding citizens (you know what I mean) will see the field less often due to jail-time/suspensions. But again, if you want to count that in your win column, go ahead.

Going back to the original point.... If the FO were able to determine that would be able to keep it in his pants and stay out of trouble, I would be all for bringing in Big Ben. He would simply be the best risk reward option for a position we have failed to fill for a very long time.

i disagree. the NBA incidents are lower in number sure, because they have far less players.

but how you think the incidents are less severe is beyond me.


my own 1-minute internet search:

Jason Williams murder case
Alvin Robertson charged with child sex trafficking
Gilbert Arenas/Crittenton locker room gun draw
Stephen Jackson firing shots at a club
Sprewell choking his own coach (only NFL coaches assault NFL coaches)
Malice in the Palace (NFL players have yet to assault fans during a game)
Isaiah Rider was arrested after three incidents in five days of assaulting fiancee
Delonte West multiple gun charages
Former NBA player Corie Blount was charged with felony drug possession for 29 lbs of pot
Police arrested former NBA player Jayson Williams early Monday after a fight broke out at the Ugly Monkey club in downtown Raleigh
Vincent Askew, 42, was taken to the Miami-Dade County jail accused of having sex with a 16-year-old girl he tried to recruit.
Robert Whaley was arrested in Utah and police found marijuana “between his buttocks.”
Ruben Patterson convicted of 3rd degree rape
Tom Payne has multiple rape convictions (not arrests, convictions)

Throw in the "Gold Club" trials and the Jailblazers and the NBA has it's issues.

Here's one list of the top12:

http://www.electro-mech.com/team-sports/...comment-page-1/

again, you misread or didn't read all of my posts and thought you were making a virtuous post when really you were repeating things i said early. you obviously read one post by me and one post by purp and thought you understood the argument, but you didn't. just drop it.

i don't care about "winning" arguments but i have a problem with people trying to pointlessly argue without knowing what was even written, something that's ridiculous considering you're on a website that is 99% words.