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Just to chime in, I can't believe that a guy with Holmgren's experience and connections, would keep Mangini for any reason other than he was convinced that he was the coach he wanted.
Neither can I. Doesn't make a lick of sense to believe that Holmgren thinks of Mangini as a one year guy. Holmgren isn't that stupid.
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That being said, I in no way think that it is far fetched that he would fire him for poor performance, as a coach, not necessarily based on wins and losses.
Absolutely agree.. its not far fetched to believe that.. If Mangini doesn't handle things well,, if Holmgren sees things (and he's gonna be watching way more than the final record) that he doesn't think leads to a winner being built, hell yeah he may fire him....
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I just don't feel Holmgren is dumb enough to just stick with him for continuity sake. IMO he saw things he wanted to see.
agreed....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Daman...know what...I don't give a damn what you think!
the feeling is mutual
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Holmgren never committed to Mangini beyond this year...Mangini is on a one year try out and if he stays, it will likely be that Holmgren sees that the two can work together and the team is progressing.
Absolute BS beyond the way that all coaches with a long term deal can be let go "if it doesn't work out".
Mangini signed a 4 year deal. He has 3 (including this year) left. He is as safe as any other coach in the league with 3 years left on their contract.
Actually, I think that Holmgren will allow a little more leeway than a HMFIC who had never been a Head Coach would. Holmgren knows the work that goes into turning a loser into a winner.
If Holmgren were to have Mangini on a "1 year tryout", and had drafted players that fit his offense and defense, then Holmgren is a fool. All of the coaches that Holmgren is associated with run the WCO and a 4-3. If Holmgren were to have wasted a year's worth of draft picks that fit a system other than that, witht the idea that he can/might dump Mangini next year, then he should be fired on the spot.
Holmgren said that Mangini would be back for 2010. You are inferring an "only" in there that simply does not exist.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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If Holmgren were to have Mangini on a "1 year tryout", and had drafted players that fit his offense and defense, then Holmgren is a fool
Careful,, when you say stuff like that around Mac, he's likely to twist it into "so you think that mangini should have been fired by Holmgren" Or, "so you think that mangini should receive a contract extension"
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Why do you guys continue to talk to that troll??
He is a Browns fan no doubt, but that doesn't prevent him from being a troll.
If he was a Steeler or Bengal fan, he would have been kicked out of here years ago.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Why do you guys continue to talk to that troll??
Because from time to time, Mac comes up with good stuff.. not always... but then who among us hits the nail on the head each time we post?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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but then who among us hits the nail on the head each time we post?
Well, since Eo left... uh... apparently nobody.  
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Why do you guys continue to talk to that troll??
He is a Browns fan no doubt, but that doesn't prevent him from being a troll.
If he was a Steeler or Bengal fan, he would have been kicked out of here years ago.
peener...I've been a Browns fan longer than you have...so who the heck are you calling a troll?
The fact is, you don't like my politics...the fact I'm an outspoken democrat who favors working class folks...and I support Obama...and you let your prejudice and bias bleed over into the football side of the forum...now fess up...
How friggin petty and small of you is that?
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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All Pro
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As far as Quinn getting his chances and how fair they may or may Not have been the fact is Quinn has a chance to prove all that in Denver. Should he become nothing but a serviceable journeyman ala Charlie Frye, the Quinn detractors look correct in their assessment yet should he shine in Denver I would say the goat horns fit as nicely.
To call Frye a "serviceable journeyman" reaches a level of generosity that even Mother Theresa couldn't possibly attain.
Taking that a step further, if Quinn becomes the next Charlie Frye, he'll have been a bust on the level of Rick Mirer and Jamarcus Russell.
Whether or not people choose to accept Quinn's fall as fair, one of the best QB guru's in the history of the NFL was more than happy to dump him for a low pick and a backup fullback/3rd-string RB. And as if that isn't a great enough indictment, his new team went ahead and drafted a QB in the first round.
I may not like McCoy's chances, but I'll take his odds over Quinn's any day.............
yes Frye has upped his game to serviceable journeyman, he threw for over 300 yards and if Oakland had run the ball more we would have LOST the game. Also Holmgren let slip that a "coach and his QB have to see eye to eye"...and whatever that means Holmgren let slip that while Quinn did not have enough Film for MH to properly evaluate him Mangini wanted him GONE, so I am not as ready as you to pin that decision on MH lapel it was a Mangini need for Quinn to go.
AS far as his new team drafting a QB, I agree, you got me there as that seems to be no endorsement for Quinn or Orten. Yet I want to see what a CREATIVE offensive coach can get out of Brady Quinn before i toss him in the Bin. And why am I so insistent on Quinn? I think he can read defenses, is mobile and can dink and dunk the ball down the field. A lot of QB busts did not have the brain for the game, yet Quinn without a top arm I think can still be a winner.
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I clearly stated you were a Browns fan when I said:
"He is a Browns fan no doubt, but that doesn't prevent him from being a troll."
So what exactly does how long you have been a browns fan have to do with my comment??
Take it easy.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Absolute BS beyond the way that all coaches with a long term deal can be let go "if it doesn't work out".
Mangini signed a 4 year deal. He has 3 (including this year) left. He is as safe as any other coach in the league with 3 years left on their contract.
yt...you should know, the years on a coaches contract are meaningless when it comes to being fired...you might think it's bs but the fact is, NFL stands for Not For Long.
Browns fans need only to look at all the coaches Lerner has fired but continues to pay the contracts on.
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If Holmgren were to have Mangini on a "1 year tryout", and had drafted players that fit his offense and defense, then Holmgren is a fool. All of the coaches that Holmgren is associated with run the WCO and a 4-3. If Holmgren were to have wasted a year's worth of draft picks that fit a system other than that, witht the idea that he can/might dump Mangini next year, then he should be fired on the spot.
yt...you do realize, Mangini is the HC, not the defensive coach?
Holmgren could fire Mangini and retain Ryan as his defensive coach and not one draft pick made for the 3-4 defense would be wasted?
On offense, Holmgren brought in Gil Haskell, his long time offensive coordinator (2000-2008), to work with Daboll and most likely to add the best of Holmgren's offense to Daboll's offense. Again, if Holmgren would fire Mangini after 2010, his leaving would have little or no effect on the offensive side of the ball and not one offensive draft pick wasted.
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Holmgren said that Mangini would be back for 2010. You are inferring an "only" in there that simply does not exist.
yt...just so your straight on what I posted, concerning Holmgren's comment when he retained Mangini...I will post it again, for you...
Here is Holmgren's Jan 7, 2010 statement about keeping Mangini..."I'm happy to announce that Eric Mangini will return as head coach of the Cleveland Browns in 2010,"
One Cleveland sportwriter even noted that Holmgren might want to coach again. Holmgren tried to knock that story down, but I have not seen anything that would keep him from coaching again, if he wanted.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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I clearly stated you were a Browns fan when I said:
"He is a Browns fan no doubt, but that doesn't prevent him from being a troll."
So what exactly does how long you have been a browns fan have to do with my comment??
Take it easy.
I will post this again since you seem to running from the truth...
The fact is, you don't like my politics...the fact I'm an outspoken democrat who favors working class folks...and I support Obama...and you let your prejudice and bias bleed over into the football side of the forum...now fess up...
How friggin petty and small of you is that?
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Just how small of a person are you?...You can't separate your politics from your football so you come over here, claiming I'm a troll.
I have no problem switching from one forum to another and discussing the subject matter of those forums. I don't carry grudges with me from one forum to the other like some young kid would do. You on the other hand...your slip is showing...again
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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And you, mac, seem to have a reading deficiency. I said: Quote:
Absolute BS beyond the way that all coaches with a long term deal can be let go "if it doesn't work out".
And you replied:
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yt...you should know, the years on a coaches contract are meaningless when it comes to being fired...you might think it's bs but the fact is, NFL stands for Not For Long.
Browns fans need only to look at all the coaches Lerner has fired but continues to pay the contracts on.
No Shinola Sherlock. That's why I said that all coaches with a "long term deal" can be let go (at any time) "if it doesn't work out".
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yt...you do realize, Mangini is the HC, not the defensive coach?
Holmgren could fire Mangini and retain Ryan as his defensive coach and not one draft pick made for the 3-4 defense would be wasted?
Yeah ... he could. It's so unlikely that it hardly deserves consideration ... but he "could" do that. The Browns defense stunk last year. That's nothing new. If the Browns defense improves this year, it stands to reason that the Browns will win more games, and the coaches will all be safe. If the Browns defense flops .... then why would Holmgren keep a failed DC if he fired the HC?
If Holmgren brought in a new Head Coach from his coaching tree, that coach would probably (and almost certainly) want to bring in his own coaches. Why would he want to keep a guy who wasn't successful enough to help the team win? We were 2nd worst in the entire NFL in total defense, and 28th against the run. That's hardly an endorsement for a return despite firing the HC. 
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Here is Holmgren's Jan 7, 2010 statement about keeping Mangini..."I'm happy to announce that Eric Mangini will return as head coach of the Cleveland Browns in 2010,"
What did you expect him to say? "Eric Mangini will return to coach the team in 2010 ... and 2011 ... and 2012 ..... and maybe even longer than that if he does well and we decide to keep him and he wants to stay and we agree on terms at that point should that happen? If he doesn't do well, then we'll probably fire him at some point." I mean, come on ... are you really that dense? 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Here is Holmgren's Jan 7, 2010 statement about keeping Mangini..."I'm happy to announce that Eric Mangini will return as head coach of the Cleveland Browns in 2010,"
Have you completly gone round the bend?
Wow, I can't believe you are taking that to mean ONLY 2010.. I'd bet you that you are the only person in the world that would read that and think it only means one year..
unbelieveable.. 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Actually.. .. Mangini was behind the hiring of MH. He really wanted Kosar but settled on Mike after it became apparent Kosar wanted too much money. If Mike supports Eric this season then he was promised a chance to stick around another year.
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Odd ain't it. People just can't understand why MoMass won't say the receiving corps isn't very good or why MH won't say that Mangini is here on a trial basis or why LeBron won't say what he's doing next year or why Shaq won't just confess that Mo Williams is awful...
It is really hard to figure out isn't it..
yebat' Putin
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It is really hard to figure out isn't it..
Only to a select few 
For the rest of us,, it's really easy
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Oh Stop
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I clearly stated you were a Browns fan when I said:
"He is a Browns fan no doubt, but that doesn't prevent him from being a troll."
So what exactly does how long you have been a browns fan have to do with my comment??
Take it easy.
I will post this again since you seem to running from the truth...
The fact is, you don't like my politics...the fact I'm an outspoken democrat who favors working class folks...and I support Obama...and you let your prejudice and bias bleed over into the football side of the forum...now fess up...
How friggin petty and small of you is that?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Just how small of a person are you?...You can't separate your politics from your football so you come over here, claiming I'm a troll.
I have no problem switching from one forum to another and discussing the subject matter of those forums. I don't carry grudges with me from one forum to the other like some young kid would do. You on the other hand...your slip is showing...again
Mac....it's not just about your politics.
My comments on this page have nothing to do with your politics.
You don't listen.
Your comprehension when reading is at a low level.
You put words in to other people mouths that are almost the exact opposite of what they are saying.
You have very few original thoughts, rather relying on some article or some blogger.
You don't answer direct questions
Other than that, you're a swell guy.
Have a great day.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Mac....
I have been trying to make some changes in my life.
I wrote the above in an irritated state and am trying not to do that.
I just got back from my 5 mile walk...a time of day I can reflect, and I thought about those words.
While I still agree with every one of them, I did want to emphasize you are a good guy and didn't want that to be taken as a sarcastic comment.
Sorry if there was a hint of anger in my previous reply.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I wouldn't sweat it peen....its not reality....its a qb thread
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Classy Peen 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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One thing about message boards, its hard to tell the tone of voice in which the poster is using, which is a large part of conversation. Thus everyone assumes the negative, takes things personally, assumes the worst and ends up in a flame war. Thats at its a QB thread on a Browns forums, varying STRONG opinions are sure to follow. 
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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Great post! It's about time someone started talking the reality of what the Browns got in McCoy. He not only has the ability to play "under center," but may have the best ability of the qb's drafted this year to anticipate the receiver's being open and throwing the ball then. Love those stats with which no one can argue.
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Because from time to time, Mac comes up with good stuff.. not always... but then who among us hits the nail on the head each time we post?
ME
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Because from time to time, Mac comes up with good stuff.. not always... but then who among us hits the nail on the head each time we post?
ME
Of course,, what was I thinking...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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