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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,566
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,566 |
Quote:
I love picking on you when I can.
Is that what you were doing.. damn,, and I missed it 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,959
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,959 |
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Quote:
I love picking on you when I can.
Is that what you were doing.. damn,, and I missed it
Well that, and you were wrong too. 
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 830
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 830 |
Housing is a liability, on your budget that is. And historically speaking it always has been. These last 5-10 years and this crazy upswing that happened has fooled alot of people into thinking housing was something you turned over every 5 years and made a nice profit on.
If you look at housing in a more conservative realistic way, I think owning is always better.
1. Assuming your not planning on moving soon, and you didnt buy smack dab in the middle of the ghetto, Real Estate does almost always go up in a long term approach.
2. Fixed long term costs, in 10 years from now you very well might not be able to a rent that apartment for what your morgage is now locked in at.
3. No landlords, private parking, control of your own heat and no neighbors above or on the other side of the wall.
Then there are the tax writeoffs, wich are a huge plus, short term strictly on number yes, renting is cheaper and easier and usually nicer. But if you have a long term view ownership wins out in the end IMO.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
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If you look at housing in a more conservative realistic way, I think owning is always better.
Well, yes and no ... if you can pay in mostly cash, and aren't sticking yourself into mass debt on an overpriced house ... then yes, it can be better long term.
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1. Assuming your not planning on moving soon, and you didnt buy smack dab in the middle of the ghetto, Real Estate does almost always go up in a long term approach.
Not necessarily. I think realtors have always sold us on the idea that real-estate always goes up, and that's just not the case. When you adjust for inflation ... it's pretty much the same as any investment. Take a look at this chart:
http://www.speculativebubble.com/images/homevalues1.gif
You'll get boom times and bad times, but property value seems to stay about the same when you factor in inflation. The chance that your house ends up in a highly desired area and goes way up in value is also about the same as your house winding up in a slummy area and losing value.
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2. Fixed long term costs, in 10 years from now you very well might not be able to a rent that apartment for what your morgage is now locked in at.
That works both ways too ... Much of the foreclosures you're seeing now are because people bought homes they couldn't afford ... or are locked into deals where their montly payments are MUCH higher than what they can get for a comparable house if they rented. You are also locked into location ... so if the neighborhood takes a turn for the worse, it's not as easy to move as if you rented.
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3. No landlords, private parking, control of your own heat and no neighbors above or on the other side of the wall.
You can get most of that by renting a house too. 
When you own, you also get a whole new plethora of complications in property taxes, home owners associations, maintanence costs, home owners insurance, etc.
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Then there are the tax writeoffs, wich are a huge plus, short term strictly on number yes, renting is cheaper and easier and usually nicer. But if you have a long term view ownership wins out in the end IMO.
If you paid too much for your house, the cost of property taxes can easily wipe out the benefits of your income tax writeoff.
I agree though, long-term, ownership wins out ONLY if you've paid a reasonable price for your home. The problem is most homes out there are STILL over-inflated from the big housing bubble. Basic rule of thumb ... if you can rent your home at a competitive rate and the income can STILL pay for your property taxes, maintenance, and other fees ... then it's worth it.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 830
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 830 |
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Well, yes and no ... if you can pay in mostly cash, and aren't sticking yourself into mass debt on an overpriced house ... then yes, it can be better long term.
Heres the thing, Ive seen the numbers done a lot of different ways. And yes dollar for dollar you can make renting seem more economical in strictly a straight dollars vs dollars comparison.
But what something like that doesnt take into account is that 90% of people will never set aside the money they save by renting, and will instead just trickle it away on beer and bigmacs.
On the other hand when your house is payed off, even though it cost you more and you had to skip a few beers and big macs you now have a tangible asset that you can sell for a lump sum of cash.
Of course there are a lot of variables that can sway things either way in either scenario.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223 |
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From my perspective it seems to make sense to buy a home if you intend on living there through it being paid off. If you're only going to live somewhere say 5-10 yrs and then move again does it really benefit you to buy if you're going to sell then get a new home? I am asking because this is a situation that could be coming up with my mother in Cleveland. She currently lives on the West side and is debating on moving to the East side as its closer to her friends.
I lived in my current house for exactly 9 years this week.
I JUST signed off on the contract for it a half an hour ago. I put in a lot of money in remodeling and would never get it all back. But it made the house much more enjoyable while we were here.
After realtor fees, closing costs, and paying of the remaining 9 years of my mortgage, I will pocket enough to have a solid down payment on our new one.
I just wanted something bigger and newer. Need a little more space, something that I plan on living in much, much longer than the 9 years here.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,438
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,438 |
j/c I think alot of the value of homeownership depends on what the market is like for your location, and where your location is located. Homes are very inexpensive here in general. Unless you want to be super close to downtown. I bought the house brand new in 1999 and got a great deal, and it's not far from town. My mortgage is lower than most decent type apartment rentals. I couldn't ever seeing living in an apartment ever again. Guess I need room to stretch out.....
No Craps Given
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 51,058
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 51,058 |
Me too.
Most apartments in this area rent for around $500 per month, plus electric. (and up for really nice apartments)
My mortgage payment is just under $500, including tax and insurance.
Why would I ever consider renting?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758 |
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Me too.
Most apartments in this area rent for around $500 per month, plus electric. (and up for really nice apartments)
My mortgage payment is just under $500, including tax and insurance.
Why would I ever consider renting?
Good luck finding that in a good location in California..  if i bought a house here.. i'd expect a $2000+ a month mortgage... I can find a nice apartment for $1300.. so location is key..
but everything has pro's and con's.. It depends also if you plan on staying in the same place for a long time... and if you don't mind who your neighbors are..
with an apartment, you can at least move if a crazy neighbor moves next door.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,850 |
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We bought our house in April, 2007. After we take into account mortgage, property tax, and homeowners insurance, we're at 918.00/month. - We live in a modest house that was built in 1953. - This isn't too bad -until we take utilities into account.
Let's see: 225.00/ month gas, 55.00/ month water, Electric averages out to 50.00/month. - This adds up to 330.00/month. -Plus 918.00 = 1,248.00/month.
So the house and utilities costs 1248.00/month, and the apartment/utilities cost 900.00/ month, which is a difference of 348.00.
Your forgetting one small thing. Your interest on your mortgage, and your property taxes are deductable on your income tax. If your interest and property taxes are 12,000 and your in the 20 percent tax bracket you will save another 200 per month.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,850 |
Check your furnace and insolation as well as your gas bill sounds a bit high. We are on the budget for gas $160 per month (gas furnace and water heater) for a 4400 square foot house.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
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Your forgetting one small thing. Your interest on your mortgage, and your property taxes are deductable on your income tax.
I believe those deductions are set to expire next year. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,391
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,391 |
Quote:
Quote:
Your forgetting one small thing. Your interest on your mortgage, and your property taxes are deductable on your income tax.
I believe those deductions are set to expire next year. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
I haven't heard that. Do you have a source?
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*In Baker we trust*
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
No, I don't. Sorry. My accountant mentioned it to me a while ago...at least I think that's what she said. 
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,391
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,391 |
More research shows it could possibly be eliminated for those making over $250K Link
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*In Baker we trust*
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
Okay, thanks for the research and information. 
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
Ditto,...expiring THAT deduction for those UNDER 250K -- (like the MAJORITY of the rest of us) -- would really send the real estate market into a tizzy,....
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Is becoming a homeowner a stupid
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