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It will be interesting to see if one of them takes a small discount in order to team up with one of the other superstars. Seriously what's 10 million, if you team up with a James/Wade/Amare/Bosh?? Especially if you could do it in a market like Miami, New York, or Chi-town. I think that would appeal to anyone, in any profession. You would be able to seal your legacy by winning multiple championships, play with a player that you're friends with, and do it on the ultimate stage. Heck you would be able to make up the money if that all was able to come true.
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Cavs just dodged a bullet. Nets won't get John Wall 
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Ugh, gonna be hard to root for him in Washington. Oh well, I'll make it work somehow 
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Cavs just dodged a bullet. Nets won't get John Wall
Or Evan Turner. 
Prokhorov looked like he was going to 'off' someone.
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Lopez and Cousins could be nasty down low though.
PG- Harris
SG- ???
SF- James
PF- Lopez
C- Cousins
Still a possibility.
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Quote:
Lopez and Cousins could be nasty down low though.
PG- Harris
SG- ???
SF- James
PF- Lopez
C- Cousins
Still a possibility.
Lopez would be abused at PF. He's unathletic as hell.
Also my idea of Igudola became more likely since they'll probabally draft Turner.
Cleveland Gets:
Iguoadala: $12.3 million
Elton Brand: $15.9 million
Philadelphia Gets:
Antawn Jamison: $13.5 million
Delonte West: $4.6 million
Sebastian Telfair: $2.7 million
Zydrunas Ilgauskas: $6 million one year sign and trade
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j/c,...but with all of the talk of LeBron leaving, I was wondering who everyone would like to have if he stayed ?
Excepting the talk of Bosh and Wade, neither of whom I believe they can afford,...who is YOUR pipe dream ?
Mine is Tim Duncan.
He would be perfect.
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j/c,...but with all of the talk of LeBron leaving, I was wondering who everyone would like to have if he stayed ?
Excepting the talk of Bosh and Wade, neither of whom I believe they can afford,...who is YOUR pipe dream ?
Mine is Tim Duncan.
He would be perfect.
Duncan is a shell of his former self. My pipe dream is CP3 or Iggy right now
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Zydrunas Ilgauskas: $6 million one year sign and trade
We can't do that ... my post that got buried at the end of the last page of threads explains why. We don't have Bird rights on Z and we're over the cap, so we can't sign him for anything more than the veteran min.
Outside of that why would Philly do that trade? AJ for Brand is overpaid under-performer guy for overpaid over-the-hill guy ... the rest is Iggy for table-scraps. I don't think they would be THAT desperate to unload both of them.
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Outside of that why would Philly do that trade? AJ for Brand is overpaid under-performer guy for overpaid over-the-hill guy ... the rest is Iggy for table-scraps. I don't think they would be THAT desperate to unload both of them.
Actually I've asked a lot of philly fans and they'd do that trade in a heartbeat. They want a young team, It would be a straight salary dump, the 76ers trade deals that run them through 2012/2013 for Iggy and 2013/2014 for Brand, and gain three expiring contracts and a contract that expires in 2011/2012.
The cap flexibility the 76ers gain puts them at a cap figure of $21 million for the 2011/2012 season, and could make them major players in the free agent class of Melo and Durant.
Except Z's contract just through every possibility I had out the window. Damn we seriously overpaid guys and it's biting us in the ass. Mo does NOT deserve 9 mil and isn't Andy's contract ridiculous too?
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This is the other part of why I'm giving up on the NBA if James leaves. It will take a nightmarish rebuilding process to get back to half of where the Cavs are now.
This Kid is too good to "allow" to leave, and it cannot be stopped.
It's all in his hands, or I'm Good Bye-bye.
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Ehh I'll still watch the cavs but I'll be watching College B-ball a lot more. If LeBron leaves we might as well get used to the lottery.  It's gonna be awhile before a "great" player. Harrison Barnes and Jared Sullingers would be the only ones in the next draft. *sigh*
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James is no where near Jordan, but look at what Kobe is accomplishing with the "right" cast and coach running the show. About to win his fifth Title. Short of a Bosh-Wade-Durant-Ig-Paul "Miracle," the Cavs will never get anywere near where they are now if this guy walks on us.
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Damn we seriously overpaid guys and it's biting us in the ass. Mo does NOT deserve 9 mil and isn't Andy's contract ridiculous too?
I don't get you ... I saw some of you trade ideas earlier, and you seem to think that Antawn is a major trade piece. Yet you absolutely despise Mo Williams. 
Mo was never supposed to be Chris Paul. He was meant to be a decent point option, that could score threes off of Lebron drives and occasionally run the offense and create a mid-range shot for himself or others. As far as PER ... he's just a point lower than Antawn. In the Boston series, both provided decent sparks of offense while both were liabilities on defense. The biggest difference is Mo is 27, while AJ is 33 ... Mo also earns $5 million LESS a year than AJ. His contract is only a year longer (and that's if he takes the player option).
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To chime in, I don't despise Mo, but his playoff disappearing act should be a Vegas magic show highlight.
Perhaps it is a short term price to pay for later long term success. I know I could not carry his jock strap,....
Neither Jamison nor Shaq lived up to their overbilled and overpaid status, as far as I'm concerned.
And now, all those failures are going to snowball into losing one of the best players in the game--a major building block.
Last edited by OoooRahJoice; 05/18/10 10:20 PM.
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Lopez and Cousins could be nasty down low though.
PG- Harris
SG- ???
SF- James
PF- Lopez
C- Cousins
Still a possibility.
I would be very hesitant of taking Cousins with such a high pick. If I had to go with a big, I would go with Favors on character alone. I know plenty of folks in mobile think he will be the 2nd coming Jamarcus Russell. A guy more worried about cash and the limelight than winning ball games.
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Since there is no Celtics/Magic Thread and I'm not starting one, can I hijack here ?
OK,...this game is tied (Two) and Howard has four fouls.
Boston goes up 2-0 here,...
And THEN, these dweebs might even beat The Lakers.
LeBron needs to STAY.
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I'm watching this now.
I don't know if I should be mad because Orlando sucks and we could have easily beaten them? Or if I should be happy because Boston may simply be the best team in the East, and their victory over the Cavs may have been legit, and not due to lack of effort on our part?
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I don't know Howard was ever considered better than yao. He's too damn soft and getting owned under the basket. It's a damn shame too because he's a physical freak like LeBron.
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It was definitely at least part due to lack of effort. When we gave it we didn't always blow them out but we did win 2 out of the 3 it looked like we cared to try in. The other games it looked like we just wanted to go home and we wouldn't have beat Denver, Utah, LA, Orlando, Boston, Dallas, San Antonio or any of the other capable teams out there. That effort we gave was causing us to play at the caliber of an Atlanta, Chicago, or a Charlotte. That will get us exactly where it got us - bounced in the second round.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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okay here's another idea to get CP3, I'll think of something damn it Well what the Cavs could do is talk to Shaq about doing a S&T to New Orleans IF New Orleans makes their intentions known that they are looking to buy out his contract to clear cap space which is very likely.
So let's say the Cavs sign Shaq to a 1 yr 19 mil deal little guaranteed that the Cavs agree to pay with the knowledge that the Hornets plan on buying him out.
Cavs ship:
Shaq-20 mil
Hickson-1.5 mil
West-4.6 mil
Future 1st
Total-26.1 mil
Hornets ship:
Paul-14.9 mil
Okafer-11.5 mil
Total-26.4 mil
Hornets then buyout Shaq for let's say 5 mil, which shaq agrees to because he can then go and sign a deal with any team he chooses. That leaves them right around the cap and they would have 20 million in expiring contracts to still trade in Predrags and Delonte's if they wish to make yet another deal
Cavs sign Shaq for a S&T ONLY if the deal is going through and ONLY if the Hornets had already made it known they were planning on buying him out.
What looks like a "15 million dollar pay cut" is actually a 5 million dollar raise. He's not going to sign a 20 million dollar deal as a free agent, not to the Cavs, not with anyone. The most he's going to get is likely 8-12 million for a deal. Now he not only gets 5 million from a buyout but he also still has a chance for that 8-12 million dollar deal he would've got as a free agent going where he wanted to in the first place .
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Screw Shaq  
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J/C Wanted to get the information out there so that we can have a better discussion now that the draft lottery has completed. Please correct me if I have misinterpreted anything here (NBA CBA isn't exactly easy to decipher). I counted any player that a team can go over the cap to sign as them having their Bird rights, I know it is a tad more complicated than that. Also, for general knowledge, for a team to acquire it's full projected cap room, they must release their bird rights to players, so they would no longer be able to sign them over the cap. the only teams with projected cap room to sign LeBron that I saw were the Knicks, Bulls, Heat, and Wiz. The Cavs can go over the cap to retain him. here is what they have on their rosters at the start of FA July 1st (minus the draft) Also, NO team has enough to sign 2 MAX contracts outright without some type of sign-n-trade (though Miami can sign a max contract and then resign Wade to a max contract as long as it happens afterwards) ============================================ projected cap = $54mil Cavs http://hoopshype.com/salaries/cleveland.htmProjected Cap Room: 5,726,378 (this is w/o re-signing LeBron for now) Players under contract: PG: Mo Williams, Daniel Gibson, Sebastian Telfair SG: Anthony Parker, Delonte West SF: Jamario Moon PF: Antawn Jamison, JJ Hickson C: Anderson Varejao Danny Green? (contract numbers not available) Bird Rights: Shaquille O'Neal, LeBron James, Darnell Jackson, Jawad Williams Not 100% sure on Zydrunas Ilgauskas status since he signed only bi-annual. ============================================ Bulls http://hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htmProjected Cap Room: 22138174 Players under contract: PG: Derrick Rose SG: Kirk Hinrich SF: Luol Deng PF: James Johnson, Taj Gibson C: Joakim Noah Bird Rights: Brad Miller, Jerome James, Tim Thomas, Hakim Warrick, Joe Alexander, Acie Law, Jannero Pargo, Ronald Murray, Lindsey Hunter, Devin Brown ============================================ Heat http://hoopshype.com/salaries/miami.htm*assuming Heat pickup option on Chalmers Projected Cap Room: 28871661 (this is with Wade as cap-holder) Players under contract: PG: Mario Chalmers SG: Dwayne Wade, Daequan Cook SF: Michael Beasley PF: C: Bird Rights: Jermaine O'Neal, Quentin Richardson, Udonis Haslem, Dorrell Wright, Jamaal Magliore, Carlos Arroyo, Yakhouba Diawara, Joel Anthony ============================================ Knicks http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htmProjected Cap Room: 36217096 PG: Toney Douglas SG: SF: Wilson chandler PF: Danilo Gallinari C: Eddy Curry Bird Rights: David Lee, Tracy McGrady, Al Harrington, Cuttino Mobley, Brian Cardinal, Chris Duhon, Eddie House, Jonathan Bender ============================================ Wizards http://hoopshype.com/salaries/washington.htmProjected Cap Room: 24816899 PG: John Wall (including draft here as he is too important) SG: Gilbert Arenas, Nick Young SF: Al Thornton PF: Javale McGee C: Andray Blatche Bird Rights: Mike Miller, Mike James, Fabricio Oberto, Javaris Crittenton, Earl Boykins, James Singleton, Shaun Livingston ============================================ Nets - eliminated since they won't have John Wall or Evan Turner. With either of them plus the Russian Billionaire, plus Brooks Lopez, plus soon-to-be Brooklyn, maybe. without that extra player though, they need another bad year to have a good base, and they would be a potentially mediocre playoff team LeBron, so it would kill their championship hopes. ============================================ Clippers - didn't include them for obvious reasons. LeBron isn't going to be the 2nd star to Kobe in LA let alone the bad karma surrounding this franchise. ============================================ Noone else has the outright cap room to sign him. That may change. Everything else is a sign-n-trade, too many options to pick from and it gets real complicated because the Cavs have to agree what we are getting back and LeBron has to be happy about the team that is left (think about why Kobe isn't a Bull today)
#gmstrong
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Also, NO team has enough to sign 2 MAX contracts outright without some type of sign-n-trade (though Miami can sign a max contract and then resign Wade to a max contract as long as it happens afterwards)
Bird-rights don't work that way. In order to maintain Bird rights, the team has to announce intentions to keep the player, which means their current contract number and something like an additional 5% is counted against the cap. (Not sure of the percentage number). In order to sign two players, Miami would have to have enough room under the cap to sign Wade and that player ... it doesn't matter when they sign.
That's why I laughed at Knicks fans who thought they would land two superstars while keeping David Lee on their team. They don't even have the room to get two stars just by themselves, and they would likely need to renounce Lee just to get one star to sign.
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I'm watching this now.
I don't know if I should be mad because Orlando sucks and we could have easily beaten them? Or if I should be happy because Boston may simply be the best team in the East, and their victory over the Cavs may have been legit, and not due to lack of effort on our part?
Stan Van Gundy is a bottom 10 NBA coach and Jameer Nelson should be coming off the bench.
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Bulls
Projected Cap Room: 22138174
Players under contract:
PG: Derrick Rose
SG: Kirk Hinrich
SF: Luol Deng
PF: James Johnson, Taj Gibson
C: Joakim Noah
Bird Rights: Brad Miller, Jerome James, Tim Thomas, Hakim Warrick,
Joe Alexander, Acie Law, Jannero Pargo, Ronald Murray, Lindsey Hunter,
Devin Brown
i love how people in chicago think this is a championship team if they add lebron
lolz. sure it is.
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Quote:
Quote:
Also, NO team has enough to sign 2 MAX contracts outright without some type of sign-n-trade (though Miami can sign a max contract and then resign Wade to a max contract as long as it happens afterwards)
Bird-rights don't work that way. In order to maintain Bird rights, the team has to announce intentions to keep the player, which means their current contract number and something like an additional 5% is counted against the cap. (Not sure of the percentage number). In order to sign two players, Miami would have to have enough room under the cap to sign Wade and that player ... it doesn't matter when they sign.
That's why I laughed at Knicks fans who thought they would land two superstars while keeping David Lee on their team. They don't even have the room to get two stars just by themselves, and they would likely need to renounce Lee just to get one star to sign.
I was counting Wade as one of the 2 max players they could sign.
They need to sign Wade last because as you mentioned his cap-hold is set on his last contract and BW pointed out awhile ago that LeBron/Wade/Bosh cap hold is a little lower than what their contract # will be (so Miami theoretically could sign Wade/LeBron and some other player for $5-6mil if Wade is willing to play ball and wait).
#gmstrong
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i love how people in chicago think this is a championship team if they add lebron
lolz. sure it is.
especially when you consider that they would need to do a sign-n-trade if LeBron requested in order to get him the true max $$$. so, goodbye Hinrich and Deng (and if I was Ferry, I would laugh and tell them they could keep them).
if they keep that roster as is and just add LeBron, that gives them Rose, Deng, LeBron, ?PF?, Noah starting. They need to add a ton of depth, they need to add a starting caliber PF (or LeBron needs to play PF and continue to start Hinrich).
they would be at least another year away from really competing for a title and probably two.
#gmstrong
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i love how people in chicago think this is a championship team if they add lebron
lolz. sure it is.
especially when you consider that they would need to do a sign-n-trade if LeBron requested in order to get him the true max $$$. so, goodbye Hinrich and Deng (and if I was Ferry, I would laugh and tell them they could keep them).
if they keep that roster as is and just add LeBron, that gives them Rose, Deng, LeBron, ?PF?, Noah starting. They need to add a ton of depth, they need to add a starting caliber PF (or LeBron needs to play PF and continue to start Hinrich).
they would be at least another year away from really competing for a title and probably two.
they still would not be as good as orlando and boston, while this current cavs team, had lebron been healthy and focused, beats boston, and beats orlando...
the media is trying to spin this on lebron not being able to win in cleveland, and while it's not a star-studded cast, they did go out and win 61 games, they dispatched of the bulls despite a hurt lebron and a team not playin well, in 5 games, so how exactly are the bulls a better option again?
i just don't understand it.
derek rose is good, but it's funny how all of a sudden he and his team became this great option once the cavs lost that game 5, hilarious.
this is the same chicago media that thought because they got nominated for the 2016 olympics, that they all of a sudden were the favorites, they were the first city out of contention. i love the media here. at least cleveland's media is realistic.
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out of all the teams, I think the clippers have the most talent. I loved blake griffin's game when he was at oklahoma, you pair him with kaman, that's a solid frontline. If you were able to get lebron their starting 5 would be really solid
pg Davis
sg Gordon
sf James
pf Griffin
C Kaman.
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as crazy as it sounds, you're actually right, especially after nj lost out.
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I'm watching this now.
I don't know if I should be mad because Orlando sucks and we could have easily beaten them? Or if I should be happy because Boston may simply be the best team in the East, and their victory over the Cavs may have been legit, and not due to lack of effort on our part?
Honestly, I think the Celtics have the perfectly built team ... they're just a little past their prime and also can't stay healthy.
They have the prototypical PG. Fast, athletic, can drive and score or can set up team-mates.
They have a sniper for a SG who is also tall and fairly athletic and won't be a liability on defense.
They have an athletic scorer for a SF who can score from just about everywhere.
They have a tall/athletic PF. Big enough to play center yet athletic and can hit a mid-range jumper from anywhere.
And they have a defensive stopper at Center. A guy that won't get pushed around by guys like Shaq and Howard.
That's like a text-book "great" team isn't it?
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Yeah, but they also have: ow: Sterling. 
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yeah, and i don't think lebron wants to play second fiddle to kobe.
my cousin lives in LA and says the only reason the clips exist is for people that hate the lakers, and people who are not originally from LA (plenty of those) to go and watch their team play the clippers, because it's too expensive to go see their team play the lakers.
but talent wise, they are decent. even if they can get another free agent they can be a pretty good western team.
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J/C Back to the thread title. This would fast-track our rebuild and is the best-case scenario I came up with if we do end up losing LeBron. From a comment by Aaron Brooks last night: http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-100518/daily-dimeQuote:
But before the lottery, Brooks assured he was hoping to win, saying the top pick "might be a point guard, or it might be, I don't know, compensation for LeBron. Who knows?"
If we get John Wall or Evan Turner (top2 picks) it wouldn't be equal compensation for LeBron, but it sure would be better than any other compensation I can come up with. Especially Turner. Trading one hometown boy for another and getting 'The Villain' on the Cavs would make things interesting.
Of course, why would LeBron want to go to a team without that player, but stay with me here. What if Philly wants LeBron and LeBron wants Philly? They are a big market, they have a lot of young talent, and they might have Larry Brown coaching them next season (title proven coach).
The main problem is that Philly cannot match $$$ with us unless they give back Brand or Iggy and their terrible contracts. I like Iggy even though he is overpaid. So, I'll go forward with us getting him back.
Best I could come up with that Philly might agree to do:
Philly gets LeBron ($22.5mil)
Cavs get Evan Turner($4mil cap hold), Speights($2mil), and Iggy($12mil)
I'd really like to unload Jamison($13.5mil) but Philly needs Dalembert to combat Dwight if they expect to be title contenders with James (not sure they would be but LeBron would need to think so).
That makes our lineup for next season:
PG: Mo, Gibson, Telfair
SG: Turner, Parker (Delonte cut...sorry Hot Sauce)
SF: Moon, Green
PF: Jamison, Hickson, Powe
C: AV, Speights
Not a championship contender by any means yet, but a ton of young talent that we can get excited about. Maybe Gibson can push Mo for more playing time (I really like how he stepped up his game last year).
Maybe a contender gets anxious for scoring and we unload Mo and/or Jamison. Would definitely make me as excited as I could get if we lost LeBron.
#gmstrong
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Would you really get that excited for a team that would be pushing for an 8 seed every year?
Also curious why you would cut Delonte? Those contracts are guaranteed, so we wouldn't really gain anything from cutting him other than an open chair on the bench.
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Would you really get that excited for a team that would be pushing for an 8 seed every year?
Also curious why you would cut Delonte? Those contracts are guaranteed, so we wouldn't really gain anything from cutting him other than an open chair on the bench.
Delonte's contract is not fully guaranteed. Only 500K guaranteed next season, which means that's $4mil of cap room.
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/01/lebron_james_will_take_the_sho.html
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West's contract is not fully guaranteed for next year, the Cavs owe him $500,000 of his $4.5 million salary if he's released before Aug. 2. So that means, in a way, he is fighting for his contract next season right now. He's a valuable player to the Cavs, but as of now they will have some cap space over the summer and releasing West would free up $4 million more. It will come down to his legal issues but also the decisions he makes off the court between now and then. Ultimately, if he's stable and has his legal issues taken care of the Cavs value him enough to want to keep him.
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Would you really get that excited for a team that would be pushing for an 8 seed every year?
the point of my trade was to avoid that fate. instead of getting a bunch of vets who will never win a championship, go for broke with a guy who might be a superstar (Evan Turner). and he's a hometown Buckeye to boot.
it beats crudding out next year to get a top5 pick in next year's draft (1 full season ahead on the rebuild) and we get other quality pieces in that move as well (Speights and Iggy).
is it enough to claw back into championship contender? not yet. but, we'd have close to $10mil in cap room and we might struggle enough next year with the youngsters to net another high draft pick and really get something going after that (especially if we can find takers for Jamison and Mo).
if we lose LeBron, can you come up with a better alternative?
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if he leaves, i want no sign and trade whatsoever (because let's be real, we ain't gettin anything back), nobody on any of these teams is going to give you back anything worthwhile, and i don't want to add to any team bringing themselves closer to a championship. if lebron wants out, let him leave that money on the table.
as far as what the team does internally...
i think you find a young guy to coach the team, someone with playing experience (the other route didn't work, still think mb is a good coach and will have success elsewhere, but let's get a guy who's been on the floor) and you start trying to put yourself together for the future.
maybe you get lebron back in a few years? honestly. like i said, chicago is coming up with these delusional thoughts of them being the best team in basketball if they got lebron. truth be told, if he went there, i could see 3 years of coming up short, people starting to question him instead of questioning the talent around him, and maybe cleveland is in position to get him back. it's just one of a million scenarios. but maybe between that time, you can hit the lottery once or twice and have a few good players to build around.
i think either way, the lottery is the way to go. without lbj, it would be very difficult to get most free agents.
if lebron stays? look for size. maybe mike redd comes on discount? maybe a leon powe type deal? he plays for the minimum, comes back to his home state, plays with lebron, and maybe he can get back to his form?
this thing can play out so many ways.
it's just the the more i think about it, it seems like cleveland is still his best option. the bulls outside of derek rose are a giant pile of crap. the knicks are a complete mess, the nets just lost out, and i dunno if lbj wants to go to the heat and play with wade. i don't know if those 2 could really mesh. maybe?
i just don't think they'd be appreciated down there. nobody cares. i have not seen worse fans in my life. i don't think there would be much of a legacy. in cleveland, in new york, lebron would become immortal if he won a championship. the miami fans don't even pack the house and they have dwyane wade who already brought them one a few years ago. pathetic.
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speakign of powe, the cavs brought him back by picking up his option.
hopefully with more time, he can come back from that injury. when he was healthy, he was a beast under the rim and was part of a championship squad.
we still need more size, but if he can give us what he gave boston in 2008, all the better.
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum what can the Cavs do IF LeBron
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